Shades Marathon Training

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  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Mama-Have a great break.
    Wasn't planning a run today but got an early finish so sneaked a 5 mile MP run in,felt really good.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Oooph.  I made hard work of that!

    Let me rewind a little bit though.  I think the reason for the lacklustre performance was partly to do with the fact that I had some kind of stomach issue on Thursday night, so got no sleep and was up half the night.  I tried to drink plenty of water Friday, but I think I was still a bit dehydrated come race day morning.  In fact, I got up Friday and was briefly thinking about not driving, which is why I didn't post yesterday as I wasn't sure what I was going to do.  However, as the hotel was paid for (it was a 7-day cancelation, so I couldn't get a refund) I decided to go.  I drove up on Friday and still wasn't feeling right, stopped a couple of times at services, and eventually got to the hotel where I just took it easy.  I went and got some fish and chips from the chippy, and did enjoy them, but my stomach still wasn't 100%.

    I slept okay and thought I'd start the race and if I wasn't feeling good, just pull out.  It was good conditions, with a little breeze, and I got to about half way at a relatively steady pace and was kind of feeling okay, but at about mile 15 I had a mini  "throwing my toys out the pram" moment (swearing out loud...in fact a runner I hadn't noticed overheard my outburst as he overtook me and sniggered....that didn't help my general mood ;)) and really I was very tempted to call it a day, but again the cost made me decide to just get around it.  I had little energy, things were aching/cramping, so I walked a fair but of the last 8 miles or so.  It did start to rain at this point, which again wasn't ideal in my frame of mind, but fortunately it was just a very light rain.  I started getting a bit worried when I seemed to stop sweating with about one lap to go, but I tried to put that to one side and pretty much walked to the end.  Again, the expense of the event was on my mind, and I just did what I could to finish it - the lapped nature of the course helped me get it done, I think.  At 15-miles on a single lap course, I think I may have made myself known to a marshal, and DNFd....who knows though?  Anyway, I got it done.  Not sure of official time, but I've got 4:35 on my watch.

    Not sure what I'm going to do in the week regarding running.  I'll see how I am I think and just decide each day.  I've got Gloucester in 8-days time, which I had wanted to try and enjoy as I am looking forward to that race.  Gloucester was also on my mind a little bit today in terms of not ruining next weekend, but even without Gloucester in my mind, today's race would still have been baaaad.

    (PS, at about 7am as I was taking some stuff to my car this morning, a young couple were staggering across the car park to the hotel after a night out, to go to bed.  Yep, I felt pretty old at that point!).
  • Travelled back from Wales this morning after lovely week in a cottage. Was originally planning to run my 16 miler early Sunday morning but as I was driving I decided to run today. The journey was over 4 hours and I felt pretty tired mentally and my tummy didn't feel right but I'd got it in my head to run. I planned a fairly flat route and set out about 3pm. First 8 miles went well then I started to labour a bit and my pace slowed. At 10 miles I took a gel and felt so much better. Energy boosted and my pace increased. Realised I hadn't eaten enough before run. Finished the 16 miles feeling fresh and so pleased to have completed my longest ever run still with a spring in my step at the finish. Must put more thought into nutrition before these longer runs


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Hard day by the sounds of it but well done on seeing it through,I'd have thought a lapped course would have made it easier to pull out with going past the end.
    John-That was a great effort to do 16 after travelling that far,I used to struggle with my long runs and realised I didn't eat right the day before so watch what you're eating then aswell as on the day but sounds like you had a really good run overall.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - don't beat yourself up about your parkrun times, they're not races just fun runs in a park. :D

    Ian - you must have that 200 miles for July in the bag now. :)

    John - that's a great long run and I'm so pleased you had a positive experience after last time.   Pre race and pre long run nutrition is very important even if on occasions it means getting up early to eat.

    Big G - sorry to hear you had a tough run, undoubtedly caused by your stomach upset.  Starting a race dehydrated makes for a tough run, I assume you'd been taking your Elete or Dioralyte throughout Friday to get your electrolytes as back to normal as you can in a short time, but even so it's not easy to get the body back to normal in time for your race.

    It's perfectly normal in a race to stop sweating when your pace drops, you're not pushing your body to maintain the same level of effort.   However, if you stop sweating in very hot conditions that can be one of the signs of heat stroke, along with a load of other symptoms.

    Take it easy this week, eat well and you should be fine for Gloucester.  Check your weight as you want to get back to the weight you were before being ill.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, yeah often it does feel easier to just step off the course if it's a lapped one.  But yesterday, I was persuading myself that it was "only 3 laps to go" as opposed to 11 miles.  I know it's the same distance, but 11 miles seemed a long way, whereas 3 laps not so bad.  Another aspect of the "looniness of a long distance runner" :)  

    Shades, I didn't actually take Elete on the Friday.  Having read that, probably I should have done, but I didn't think of it at the time.  If it happens again, I'll remember that.  It's bizarre what goes through my mind when I'm out there and struggling.   With three laps to go, I was in a right grump, worrying about the race I was in ("I can't f***'in do this!!"), saying to myself "I still have a 4hr+ drive back home so maybe I should just step off the course?", thinking I shouldn't have entered Gloucester and City to Sea, and was planning on burning my marathon running shoes immediately after I crossed the line.  I'm fine now though :)  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - So no Dioralyte either then! 

    Glad you're feeling better now, mentally and physically.   Your negative thoughts during the race can be partially attributed to your lack of electrolytes/sugars and dehydration.   Did you take on some fuel during the race?   If not that would have made you feel a lot worse.

    If in the future you decide to run a double it's really important to take additional fuel on board during the 2nd event, you can't run on empty.
     
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes I'm very close now,after today I'm just 3.2 miles short so even if I have a hangover tomorrow I can do that.
    Big G-Glad you're feeling better,I read somewhere once that after a hard run your brain tells you it wasn't as bad as it felt as a way of helping you if you decide to do it again,not sure how true it is though.
    Usual 8 mile run today,felt really nice running early on a Sunday and felt easy again.
    1 thing I've noticed is my heart rate is lowering for the same run so this 8 mile run used to be at 75% mhr,it's now around 70% ,should I keep to the same pace and a lower heart rate or faster pace to get to 75% ,I'm guessing same pace but want to check?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, maybe there's something in that!  Good news on your lower HR - shows you're getting fitter!

    Shades, I don't have any Dioralyte.  Maybe I should get some.

    I do have a double as a rough plan at some point in the future.  In the back of my mind, I was thinking of taking it easy yesterday and then going out to do 10ish today to see how I felt.  But I've abandoned that idea for today.

    I did have fuel yesterday.  I had a few pieces of Kendal Mint cake, a bunch of grapes (random, I know, but I like them and they were just what I needed at the time!), 2 bananas and an apple, plus a couple of handfuls of crisps/nuts, although I had to force those down.  I did have a couple of gels with me but I just didn't fancy them, and I haven't consumed a gel for a long time in any case.  And then last night I had a large burger and chips, which was very nice and very welcome!  For a double, is that the type of fuel you'd recommend during the second day, and a meal after the first day?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keep to the same pace for now.   Great that you are now running at a lower HR, shows your aerobic system is improving :)  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - Sainsbury's do a very good and cheaper Dioralyte type product (I'm sure other supermarkets do too) and it's useful just to keep a couple on you when travelling just in case, although taking Elete should be fine.

    I agree, ditch today's planned run, your body still needs some time to recover from your illness, go for a roast dinner instead :) and maybe a pudding too :)

    I remembered you mentioned a possible future double which is why I mentioned it.  By fuel I meant during the race as lately you've not needed or wanted to take on much during your marathons.   When you start a race already depleted from either illness or a race the day before fuel becomes much more important.  

    You'll know Danny, in his 70's and a great runner, just coming up to his 700th marathon, he was running at Boddington having run the Giantshead marathon the day before.  Even with his experience of many marathons when I passed him at 19 miles I could see he was struggling with an energy crisis and didn't appear to have anything with him to eat, I actually ran back and gave him a handful of sweets to keep him going.

    After a race just eat what you fancy, I'm a great believer in the body craving for certain things on such occasions, and if you're a meat eater as I am it's often a tasty meat dish.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Large burger and chips sounds great to me after a race.
    Just realised with my extra run yesterday,I've done just over 50 miles now this week,only the 2nd or 3rd time I've done that.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well done, Big G - you're a real trooper for getting it done, given you had every excuse to throw in the towel. You definitely deserve a treat or two now.
    Ian, well done on the more efficient heart and your mileage.
    And John, well done on your longest run!

    I did my longest run since Liverpool today - 14 miles, using the Brockwell Park route. God I'd forgotten how unrelenting that hill is. It's an undulating course overall (getting there and back) but half a lap of the park itself is uphill and just when you think you're nearly done, it goes up a bit more. I did two and a half laps so I went up the damned thing three times.
    I had all sorts of aches and pains on this one. My hammy attachment was a little grumpy but no more than usual, but my left hip tightened up for a while and them my lower back grumbled all the way home. I think jarring on the downhill stretches might be the culprit here. Need to improve that core strength.
    Pace-wise I achieved an average of 10:49, which is within the parameters for easy run. The miles themselves varied a lot depending on how much incline or decline they had. Aside from a sedate warm-up mile (11:26) my slowest mile was mile 11, at 11:16, with a climb of 29 (no downhill at all), whereas the fastest was an all downhill 10:11 at mile 10.

    I felt pretty tired by the end and was happy to go soak in an Epsom Salt bath. I'm going to do Yin yoga later - I hope there aren't too many sitting poses as I will definitely struggle not to flop onto the floor. :grin:
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    That pace looks better for an easy run Cal.  You're right that it can't be consistent over an undulating course, so I think then it's more on perceived effort/heart rate.  Good luck with the yoga :)

    Shades, regarding the story about Danny, I suppose it shows that no matter how experienced we are, we always learn something.  I'm obviously not particularly experienced, but I know I've learned something from each of my marathons.  Whether it be something to remember to do, or something not to do.  Or whether it was just when I dug in (like yesterday, which in a way is something positive to take away from what was a rubbish event for me), or got around that hot marathon the other week.  I always learn something from them.  By the way, RK was there yesterday and he was pleased with his 4:45 - he's got another one today and tomorrow as well, I believe.

    I went out for a recovery run - just 3-miles.  I had been wearing the new Reeboks around the house last night and I got used to them, so wore them for the run and they felt fine, so I'm keeping them.  On Strava I've nicknamed them "Reebok Racers", and I think I'll keep them for shorter races I may do, or parkruns that I'm intending to "race".   There's not as much cushioning (that's partly why they're lighter, of course), so I'm not currently sure if they'd suit me for halfs or marathons but maybe if I race a 10K in them, I'll change my mind on that; I sort of hope so, as really I want a lighter shoe I can wear for marathons.  They fit very well though, and also they did feel a fair bit lighter.  Not "springy" as such, but just a bit easier to run in if that makes sense?  I haven't properly tried the Runner's World Asics yet.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Cal-Exactly right on the ups and downs,I have a few hills on mine and try and ignore the watch and run how it feels,I kmow I'm slower on the uphill but feel good after it.
    Big G-Good luck with the shoes.
    Doesn't look like I'll have a hangover tomorrow so 10 miles should give me around 206 for the month.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - is it Manchester for your next marathon, no autumn marathon?

    Big G - it doesn't matter how many marathons you've done, there'll always be a situation that you've never come across before, some good, some bad but I suppose we never stop learning.   I'm always very respectful of the race distance as I think being complacent about a marathon invites it to come back and bite you on the bum on that day.

    Good to know the new shoes suit you well and you enjoy the feeling of lightness.   They and your new Asics shoe will be a good start towards finding your lighter marathon shoe.
    There are quite a few new shoes now with good cushioning and are very light, I believe it's the support features such as medial posts that add the most weight, but the fabrics are being improved all the time.  

    Ian - no hangover is a good thing surely, you almost sound disappointed :D

    Lovely morning here, perfect for running.  Pilates booked, slightly less frenzy as it's holiday time.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Big G - one of the Mavericks ordered a pair of the new Nike £200 shoes, the ones that sold out in minutes, was supposed to be next day delivery but had to wait over a week for delivery as it was DPD who were the carriers and they lost them.   Anyway, he's finally got them and says they feel amazing and is going to try them out at the Exe 5km.

    Out of curiosity I looked at them on Nike's website and they are unisex, so not sure how they fit. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, £200 for a pair of running shoes is a lot of money!  I'm thinking of doing the Exe 5K, but I'll decide tomorrow whether to do it or not.  There are only two left in the series now, so there's tomorrow and one at the beginning of September, which is also after a marathon for me (City to Sea).  I think there are a lot of quick runners there, and if the conditions are good it may pull me a long to a slightly quicker time compared to parkrun, but I'll see what the legs and weather are like tomorrow.  I'm still quite tired today, so I'm taking a rest day today.  If I do the 5K I'll wear the Reeboks, and I'll also wear them for Torbay 10K that I have entered in August.

    This time last year I was in Vietnam.  I can't believe where that year's gone!  It was a great month over there though, although I did very little running whilst there.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Manchester, yeah. I can't really fit an Autumn one in with all the halves I'm doing. If I hadn't signed up for Royal parks, then I would, but that was when I assumed I'd be going to China in September. Eh... I did consider a foreign half in November but I don't think I can really afford it. I will do an Autumn marathon next year, though.

    Gotta say I'm intrigued by those shoes. I do love my Frees but the balls of my feet were hammered the last two marathons. They fit like a gloves but don't have much in the way of cushioning.

    Oh and I'm suffering the effects of armpit chafe today. Didn't think it would be factor for a two and a half hour run so I didn't grease them up. Mistake.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Cal, I had a bit of chaffeage from a brand new running vest after that marathon I did.  Very annoying!

    I've this morning entered a couple of other shorter events in August.  As well as Torbay 10K, I've now got a race called Forest Flyer which is an off-road race around Haldon forrest, and it's about 5-miles.  I've done it a few times before and it's a great little event although the last mile or so is up hill and is always a struggle - I've never ran it all, and I don't expect I will this year either!  The other one is a mainly off-road 10K called Lustleigh 10K, which is on the Moors.  I haven't done this one before although by all accounts it's apparently hilly, but good fun.  That's the week before my trail marathon so it will be some good practice, although fingers crossed I don't injure myself on the terrain.  I keep on calling it a "trail marathon" although it's not totally trail, as 20-miles of it is on good paths.

    An old mate from when I lived/worked in Ipswich contacted me a couple of days ago as he's down this way with his family on holiday.  I haven't seen him for probably 4 years, so we're meeting up for a beer or three on Thursday for a catch up.  Should be good, although I have to say I'm a bit nervous as I haven't seen him since Claire died (he does know she died).  Nice of him to contact me though, and I'm sure it'll be fine.  He's probably a bit nervous too and just didn't know what to say after Claire died.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G - Well done on toughing it out!

    First week of taper for me, 13.1 miles on Saturday (7:50 average pace) and then Sunday was spent visiting checkpoints with the GF to work out where parking is etc so she can see me during the ultra and bring extra supplies if needed! Got home Sunday evening to do another 8 miles, sort of turned into a progression run after 3 miles, so decided to keep increasing the pace, however at 7 miles I'd hit a planned MP mile pace and didn't want to go faster, so had a mile cool down. Splits were 8:18/8:06/7:48/7:33/7:24/7:03/6:48/7:59. That finished off a big July for me, with 268 miles, 50 miles more than I have ever run in a month before!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve-Good luck with the taper,great months mileage you've done there.
    Big G-More races booked,making up for July  :D

    I felt a bit dehydrated this morning so wasn't sure how far to go,I knew I had to do a few to complete the month,as it was I took plenty of water to be safe and ended up doing 11 miles.After a double check it means I have done 206.75 miles,by far my highest mileage in a month.Here are my previous stats for the year,Jan-112,Feb 107,March 53(injured 2 weeks),April 147,May 178,June 134(taper for ultra) So hopefully the extra mileage will make a difference when I start racing again.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Ian - Well done to you as well, that's a great months mileage and will make a difference to your speed as you will have a stronger endurance base going forwards.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Hi all,

    Shades - was that Dom with the new Nikes? I saw that too.

    Big G - sorry to hear about your run :( You're right that you learn a lot during races and the bad experiences.

    1Steve - that's a great pace and progression run!

    I missed parkrun on saturday as i didnt sleep a lot :( but had a great weekend. I went out for a 11k run this morning with the dogs and just trying to take it easy.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    My left heel was pretty tight this morning so, despite the rather tempting weather, I decided a rest day would be a good move (I've run three days on the trot after all). I recorded 39 miles last week which is my highest total since February.
    Good job, too. I did my usual Monday Vinyasa class, which was fine, walked home fine and then got a nasty stab in the knee when I tried to go upstairs. Knee was angry as hell.
    This worried me for a bit until I remembered, quite a few years ago, a similar incidence when I worked in Wimbledon and would run down the big hill to the train station to save time. Stepped up onto the train and, yowza! Given I was running down as many hills as I was climbing yesterday, the culprit seems pretty clear. So I guess I'll need to stick to flattish runs for a few days. I've not done much in the way of hills since having the hamstring issue so I think I'm out of practise on running the downhills as much as the uphills. Such is life!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - it would be good to try out those new shoes at the 5km. :)

    Can't believe it's a year since you were in Vietnam, where does the time go? 

    Cal - Manchester has suited you well so far and a good race to target a PB.

    Ouch to the chafing, I never use anything for underarm chafing in training either.

    Nikes fit you well so I can see how you're tempted by those shoes, I think they'd not be very cost effective, I doubt they're designed for high mileage.
    Hope that knee is OK, maybe you do need a bit more forefoot cushioning in your next shoes to help with the downhills, and marathons. 

    Steve -  very good mileage for you for July.

    Ian - you certainly nailed that 200, I take it you don't feel particularly tired.

    Emmy - yes, it was Dom.  

    Cool this morning, but a bit humid, pleasant for running though :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-My legs don't feel tired at all,on all my runs I could have went further but need to remember not to cause an injury by doing too much.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Trotters have a race coming up this weekend that we organise, called Totnes 10K, and I've just seen the marshal list.  The list always make me chuckle as a couple of the jobs are "Herding cows in field".  I can't help out this year as I'm at Gloucester.

    Done an easy 3 this morning and kind of felt okay, so I've entered the 5K.  I don't think it's going to be pretty, but I'll do my best.  The marathon has taken it out of me this time around, but I want to do an official 5K and there aren't many opportunities locally.  It's just bad timing for me, with it being three days after the marathon.

    Shades, just picking up on something you said a few days ago about lost weight.  I'm now back at my original weight, after being low for the last few days.  Do you remember me complaining after London that I had put on nearly half a stone in the days after London, but it came off again that week?  This was the other way around, so probably was due to the stomach issue, and probably shows I was a bit dehydrated too for the race.

    Ian, I do enjoy the local races, but don't do as many as I'd like to do.  They are very good value too, which always helps.  There are loads to choose from with races most weekends, many within about an hour or so from me.
  • Big G - is that literally herding cows or just a euphemism? :lol:
    I wouldn't fancy trying to run a 5K so soon after a marathon. That sounds like an invitation to an injury, or at least a disappointing performance. Be careful eh?

    Absolutely perfect weather this morning - blue skies but fresh. Rather glad it wasn't any warmer as all my shorts and vests are in the wash so I had to make do with tights and T-shirt. My knee was fine and I really enjoyed the run, so much so that the intended 6 turned into 8. Could have done more but decided it was probably wise not to push it too much (hamstring was a bit grumpy, though that seems to be the new normal for me now).
    I did some exercises in the playground including some bench step-ups (30 per leg). I was expecting some form of protest from the knee but no. Clearly yesterday was a tantrum. A very sharp, stabby sort of tantrum.

    I've been having a look at the training plans in P&D and I think the <55 mile plan is almost doable, but I'd probably have to adjust the LTR pace (it's recommended to run at 15K pace, but since there's barely any difference between my 10K pace and HM pace, I think I might struggle to run a 10K in the middle of a 10 mile training run). Also not sure why they put the recovery run before the long run, not after?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, the Totnes 10K is mainly off-road and goes around an estate, which includes a couple of fields with cows in.  The job of the cow herders is to try and keep the cows out of the way of the runners (and hope there're are no bulls in the field...).  Famous last words, but I don't think injury is a concern really (no more than usual, anyway) and I'll do a proper warm up before the event.  If I feel any twinges, I'll just slow it down - no issues.  But yeah a poor performance is on the cards....if I have a slow race, I'm not bothered though, particularly as I'm meeting up with a couple of friends for a pub meal afterwards which is a big part of the reason for me signing up :)  I suppose there's a very small chance I may surprise myself, which is why I've entered....I live in hope!

    Yeah, slow down the LTR pace, maybe try it at Half pace or something.  I think they've put the recovery run in, which from memory is at very slow pace, so that in theory your legs are fresher for the long run?  Not sure though.
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