Shades Marathon Training

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  • Sickening, isn't it? I console myself with the fact that they look ridiculous. :lol: (I actually have massive respect for them, but it must be said that race walking and walking are two entirely different gaits).

    Beautiful day today, so out at 6:30am for a 15 mile run. Felt very sluggish and heavy legged to start with, which I blame on only getting 5 hours sleep. (Watching the athletics last night left me a bit too wired to go to bed at my usual time so it was nearly 12 when I put the lights out. Still woke up at 5).
    Kept within easy pace parameters though I had a slightly faster mile at 7 (10:22) and then two slower miles at 10 and 11 (both just over 11 minute miles) though those included the flight of steps and the rooty woods. At mile 12 I actually felt my legs wake up and then did mile 13 at 10:16 (a second over MP). 14 was back to easy pace but it was a bit uphill and I fumbled my water bottle and had to pick it up.
    I decided to gun the last mile to see what was left in the tank after two and a half hours and ran it in 9:27. It felt faster to me but my paces have been off all summer and I still think that's reasonable for the 15th mile.

    Had a nice hot bath after, with Epsom salts, a protein shake (rhubarb and custard flavour, Shades...always treat myself to my favourite flavour after a good run) and a copy of P&D for inspiration. Was thinking of going to Yin later, but not sure if I can be arsed. It's a different instructor and he doesn't do as much of the stretching as I like.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Nice run there, Cal!  I'm taking a rest day today, but I've been for a walk and had a coffee at a place overlooking the sea, which was very nice indeed.

    I went to a wedding reception for a fellow Trotter last night (well, they're both Trotters), which was good.  I was driving so just had water, but it was a good evening.  Bacon baps and chips as part of the reception always go down well and because there were a lot of runners there, there was a large TV showing the World Champs, so we managed to catch Mo's race as well as the Men's 4x100m final.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, regarding the Race Walkers, I just caught the competitors warming up for the 20k event, and even that was amusing I have to say!  I can appreciate the fitness etc as well, although I agree they do look quite funny. I supppse it's partly because we're not that used to seeing it. 
  • Sounds like a good reception, Big G!
    Didn't go to Yin - had a short nap instead. My body tends to let me know what it wants. Who am I to refuse? :grin:
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Nice long run Cal.
    Preston 10 mile race for me today,never done this so wasn't 100% how to pace it so plugged it into the calculators and it showed somewhere around 1:13:30-1:15 based on my 10k and HM time so planned to run at 1:13:30 and see how it went,so just over 7:30 p/m.
    First year of the race so no reviews of the course,it said flat to undulating which could mean anything,2 laps so at least after the first I'd have an idea,as it was it was pretty flat with 150ft of climb.
    Started off at 7 min mile and thought it was too fast but felt good so decided that I'd keep it going as it's only 10 miles so shouldn't regret it too much in the 2nd half,reached half way and I was surprised to see 35;04 on my watch as that was a lot faster than I'd planned,with just under 300 doing the 10 I was on my own now but could see people further ahead so it gave me a good target to aim for,by 10k I'd reeled some in and got there at 43:59,nearly a full minute ahead of my PB,decided then not to look at my watch anymore and race hard,kept waiting to slow right down but it never really happened,taking over people just seemed to get me going even better,got to the last half mile and seen 2 more a bit ahead so really pushed to try and catch them which I managed off the last bend,pushed on and finished in 1:10:29.Had to double check as it was so fast but the results confirmed it.So I only took 35:25 for the 2nd half.
    Absolutely delighted with the time and I felt really strong at the end.Finished 41st out of 291,and 6th in my age group.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, that's a great time for a 10-miler!  Are there are any flat Halfs around?  If so, I wonder if you'd knock a chunk off your Half PB?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-The only local ones are on days I'm working,there's a good one next Sunday so I'm going to try and swap my shift.I'd definitely knock a few mins off,currently 1:40:48 and I'd have to do a 30 min 5k to miss that and today I felt like I could run at that pace for longer.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, good luck with getting the day swapped.  It looks like a good chunk could come off of that, but regardless this 10-miler shows your training is going really well.  Have you had any more thoughts about that 5K race you mentioned?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, what I mean by the above is that you're obviously you're running brilliantly so it would be great if you could bring all your PBs down in line with the 10-miler ;)   I've just put that 10-miler into a race predictor and it shows 20:18 for 5K and 42:10 for 10K!
  • Ian, fantastic effort! I guess all that mileage is making a big difference!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Big G-Yes I'm doing that 5k,it's along the front so have to hope the wind is ok,there's another this weds near Chester that I might do.Those times seem crazy fast to me but so did 10x7 min miles that I near enough did today.That predictor gives me a crazy marathon time,it's made me consider what I'm going to aim for though.
  • Did my 18 mile long run and it was tough going. First 8 miles went ok but my stomach started to feel very dodgy and it was lucky I was near home at mile 9 to dash home for a loo break. Carried on but it was tough. I think it's an issue with lack of food and water. I don't think I'm putting enough thought into nutrition and hydration before these long runs. I was wondering at what point you all take gels in a marathon as I seem to take them a bit late and need to take them before my energy saps I think. At mile 16 I felt like I was possibly getting close to hitting the wall. I've never felt so knackered and devoid of energy. I think I may have a bit of a tummy bug as I've have a few tummy problems on recent runs. But I'm really please I stuck with it and didn't stop running. Had lovely relaxing bath when I got home. Then the icecream van turned up so I treated myself to a double 99 with all the trimming and instantly felt better
  • John, 2 hours is about when you'll start to switch from carbs to fat, so you'll need to gel up before then. I usually take a gel at mile 6 and then every 5 to 6 miles thereafter. That's during an actual marathon, though. I might use one or two gels during a long training run (18+). I don't eat breakfast so I figure I'm probably well adapted to burning fat. I did today's run (15 miles) without breakfast and with no gels and I got stronger towards the end. Women are generally bet at this than men but if you can do some of your easy-paced runs fasted, you'll start to be able to utilise your fat stores a bit better.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    John, to be honest, I'm the opposite of Cal, as I have at least something for breakfast before a long run/marathon.  Regarding the stomach issues, I used to have that really bad, and I found it was milk that caused it as I used to have cereal with quite a lot of milk, and that caused me stomach issues.  I got rid of the milk before a long run, and the stomach issues stopped (I still drink milk, just not before a long run).  It may not be milk for you, it could be something else, but can you think of something you eat in the mornings or the night before that may cause the problem?

    If I am only doing a short run (up to 6-8miles) and I'm short on time, I sometimes run first and then eat later.  Eating before a run does mean getting up earlier to let my food go down etc, but it seems to work for me.  I tend to have toast with eggs, or toast/croissants and jam/chocolate spread, plus a banana.

    Regarding nutrition on a race/long run, I tried all the gels and for me, I couldn't take them as they all made me want to gag.  So I've tried all sorts of sweets, and current favourite is Kendal Mint Cake.  :)  But gels are quite good as they are easy/light to carry and easy to get in to.

    --
    I went out for a gentle 4-miler this morning, in the rain.  It was pleasant enough, but believe it or not I was thinking I'd have been better with gloves on!
  • Thanks Cal and Big_G for advice. I think I run the longer runs better in the morning (normal race time), but I like to go for a walk in the countryside with the family on a Sunday morning so I have been doing my long runs later in the afternoon, and I think I burned off my breakfast on the walk and didn't have a big enough lunch before I left for my run yesterday. The Hi-Five gels I have been taking have been great, and also the jelly beans. I need to get some kind of running belt to put my gels and sweets in, but don't want anything too bulky.
  • Try a Flipbelt, John - loads of people swear by them.
  • mamafoxmamafox ✭✭✭
    Hellooooo Shadies!

    I've been teling myself that I'll do a proper post when I've caught up with the thread and read everyone's posts but it ain't going to happen. There's just too much to read, even skim read and I'm fighting a losing battle. So I'm just going to have to start from scratch and apologies if I've missed anything major!

    Just on the last two pages though a big well done to Ian for that incredibly speedy 10 miler.

    John - I never eat before or during training runs either, no matter how long, but I definitely take something (sports fruit jellies for me) during marathons. I start at around 5k then every 5k until around the 30k mark. After that I can't stomach anything. 

    I have thankfully got my mojo back. I really enjoyed running when I was on holiday - early mornings through the pine forest and 5km along the beach before working my way round a seaside town then back again. There was so much to look at I just didn't notice the kms passing and really enjoyed every run. Clocked up over 100k for the week so was pleased with that.
    Back home and just building up steady miles with my P&D plan due to start at the beginning of September.
  • Ian - Fantastic racing! That's a great pace and shows that your training is now paying off.
    Big G - Nice racing also, looks an interesting course!
    Cal - Good Parkrun.

    Quick update from me.....went well! Finished 11th in 12 hours 22 minutes, really happy with that. Report to follow.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    John -I'm with big G and have to eat before my long runs,12 miles is about the most I can do without,as you can see just from this thread its about finding out what works for you as what works for one won't necessarily work for another 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Ian - brilliant 10 mile debut and PB, that was fast!   Evidence that your training is going so well, out of curiosity if you put that time in a calculator what does it predict for half and full marathons?

    John - running ( all that jigging around) can cause runners trots and you might want to note what you're eating and see if you can see what causes it.    
    In a race you would start taking gels/sweets much earlier than in training as you'd be running at a higher intensity and using more glycogen earlier.  But for a long run make sure you've eaten well the day before and had a good breakfast too.

    mamafox - good to hear you had a lovely holiday and enjoying your running again.:)

    Steve - well done, 11th place, that is good.   Looking forward to the report.

    We had perfect weather for the IOM marathon, best that I can remember  and I've run it 18 times!   I've had a sore knee which was bothering me even on race morning plus the last 5 weeks have been disastrous for my training plans what with one thing and another.  But my knee didn't bother me running and although I felt quite unfit, seem to have lost some aerobic fitness, I had quite a good run and finished in 4:59:06, and first in my age group but there was only me in that age group, :/  but still another glass plaque for the collection :)

    Got home last night but couldn't log on this morning, after a Window update which took ages my Edge wasn't working, so after Yogalates I've spent 90 minutes finding the solution and I've now got it working.   I love Edge and don't want to go back to IE.   Neither could I book my Pilates class either :#

    Then early this morning I finished the unpacking, loads of washing after a few days away plus a race, put my running kit in the machine and half way through the cycle machine stopped working properly.   I think it's had it and I will have a quick look on the internet but I think tomorrow I will have to buy a new machine. :'(    I love my washing machine but it's done me well, I do a wash every day and have had the machine for 7 years so it's done quite well.   So now I have to go and finish the load by hand...can't remember the last time I hand washed anything, but it's my race kit so can't leave it until I get a new machine.

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve-Well done on your time and placing,immense.
    Shades-Well done on your win,Not your fault you scared off the opposition.Really good time aswell.
    If I put it in half comes out around 1:34 and the full about 3:17,now I'm not going to get near that but I was planning going out at 3:45 so it's given me food for thought.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - ooh that's fast predictions :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Unrealistic predictions I'd call them  :D
  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    Well done to everyone who raced - some speedy times there  :)

    John - I have to eat breakfast and use the bathroom before I run. I think I would just collapse if I had an empty stomach  :o As the others say - it's just a case of finding what's right for you on long runs. And what works might not 6mths later, so it's constantly adjusting to find what you like. (Not very helpful  :/)

    I walked Salisbury 54321 yesterday - nice multi-terrain course with an especially nice spooky forest. Walked most of it with D & L M and all went well until mile 19. We paused at a checkpoint to empty shoes of mini-stones and within minutes of leaving a sudden, sharp pain shot through my joint just below my left big toe. (I have a bit of arthritis here and often get a 'twinge' ). However the pain quickly moved through into the area just before all my toes and I was wincing (and feeling a bit sick :s ) with every step. I slowed down and loosened my laces but then the top of the instep also started hurting and the front of my ankle and bottom of my shin ached. I downed a couple of paracetamol but they had no effect so from then on it was a hobble back. Some ibuprofen didn't work either, but by this time the runners were going past (they had started 2 hours later), so I had some distraction and quite a few I knew to pass the time of day with. More paracetamol took the edge off and by the time I finished (in 7hrs 50mins),showered and drove home it was just an ache. As soon as I got home I put my feet up and enjoyed the rest of the athletics - didn't see the walk so will have to get that on 'catch up'. Still enjoyed the event though :) (one of my favourites), but a bit worried this morning as the foot still hurts :'( .
  • Ian - I think I ran about 71 minutes for a 10 miler in 2015 and my marathon time was around 3:40, so I'd say your 3:45 is in the right area. I think your half time will be closer to that prediction though!
    Shades - Well done at IOM, that's a good time! Not good about the washing machine though.
  • Shades, well done on the sub-5! Maybe I should do that one next year and see if I can get a prize! :lol:
    One of my friends on Facebook was moaning about his browser not working after the last update so it's not just you. I use Firefox so it hasn't affected me.
    I've done the odd bit of hand washing as I don't have a washing machine and have to haul everything to the launderette once a week. I leave them to do the washing and folding - worth every penny. But if I need a bit of kit (say shorts - I've only 4 proper pairs so during a warm week I'll get through them all) I might hand wash something. It's not that big a deal really.

    mamafox - yay for mojo!

    Steve - well done on the 11th place! Awesome!

    Sorry that your foot is still bothering you, mowzer. Sounds like it's time to see a specialist.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Mowser - Sorry to hear about your foot. Hopefully it'll be OK with some rest.

    Mamafox - Great to hear that you had a good time and found the mojo!

    Steve - Well done on 11th Place! 

    I went out for a run this morning and hated every minute of it. If someone finds my Mojo, please send it over?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I had/have similar predictions and I think of them as something to work towards ;)  In all seriousness though, I do think that the predictors work really well when going down the scale.  I.E., if you've raced a Half, the predictors probably work for 10K, 5Ks etc if those current PBs are a bit weak.  But if someone has raced a 10K (let's say) and uses that as a predictor for the Marathon, it wouldn't necessarily be accurate unless the training for the later distance is there.  When I was in my "purple patch", I was using the predictors and they were really accurate for 10K to 20M really, so they are certainly a very good guide!

    MF, great news you have your mojo back!

    Shades, bad news about the washing machine, but well done on your sub-5 though!

    Steve, looking forward to reading that report.  It's a cracking time and finishing position so well done!

    Mowzer, sorry to hear about your foot.  Well done for getting through it.  I have been browsing LDWA events, but the self navigation aspect of them puts me off a bit, although they seem an absolute bargain!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Mowzer-Sorry to hear about your foot,hopefully it gets better soon.
    MF-Great to hear you're back in the zone,100km in a week is very impressive.
    Big G-I think all the times are do-able except for the full,for the half I'd have had to do a last 23:30 5k and I think I could have done that as the last 5k was 22:18 and faster than my first 5k.10k looks a challenge but something to aim for if I ever do another. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    mowzer - that doesn't sound good about your foot, hope it heals soon.  Well done for finishing in such pain.

    I watched the World Athletics walks yesterday, good to see a lot more interest in the race walking now.   There's a strong race walking ethos in the IOM and there were 4 race walkers in the marathon but as they were not of elite standard (they all finished 4:45/55ish) they don't have such a pronounced wiggle.   2 of them were in front of me and when they needed a bit of a break (such as on the hill) they would walk normally, and then resume race walk technique.

    Cal - I think a lot of folk have had the same problem with the Windows 10 update, tell your friend to uninstall Rapport and then Edge should work.  I need to reinstall Rapport today so hope it will be OK then.

    Emmy - sorry you've lost your mojo.  Did you not enjoy your run because Evie wasn't with you?
    I will add your marathon to the list, not up to October yet.   I've heard that's a good marathon, it's the Marine Corps one isn't it?

    Big G - I agree about the predictors. but they are only there to say what a runner could be capable of with the right training for the distance.   If you want to know now what you could run for a certain distance the WAVA is far more accurate, when I had my 'purple patch' (we've all had them) ;) my marathon, 6 hour and 10km PB's were all the same WAVA%.   I use WAVA now to help me predict what I might do for my next race.

    Re the LDWA events, I hate the map stuff but used to quite enjoy the navigation by instructions.  But some events are much easier to navigate than others so try and find those that are easy to navigate, these are usually the ones that attract most runners.  You'll love the checkpoints, usually a good selection of food, some even have a meal at the end.

    Didn't do my recovery run yesterday morning as I was too tired and then PC and washing machine troubles took over the rest of the day.  Not good leaving it until today but 5 miles done.   My quads have DOMS and my knee is a bit sore, not sure what to do about that, whether to DNS my race this weekend, we'll see.
    Pilates this morning which will be challenging 2 days after a marathon with sore quads :'(   then will pop into shop on the way home and buy a new washing machine.

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