The Middle Ground

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  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Yep it is a tough finish. Especially the turns off the hill. Really about line there and if you get caught up passing/lapping its tough.

    I've heard good things about Whitstable if you are down that part of Kent? I've done none down there because of travel time to go round the m25.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    That's the one I was thinking about, so good to hear +he stuff.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    22 miles at 8:27/mi today ... 7:40 last mile too!
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Well done Dr. Dan that is amazing running!

    I was out all day watching the marathons then at the stadium so didnt run yesterday. Did clock 28,000 steps though B) and do weights first thing.

    Just working off the hangover with coffee and then off out for a leisurely 6 mile. Long ride day today to get to and from ballet this evening as well so lots of activity on.

    Alehouse how is the achilles?
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Morning all.

    Curly - I was also at the stadium last night! Not much in terms of British medal chances, but we still enjoyed the session and the crowd was great as usual weren't they? Must have cost you a bit to buy enough alcoholic drinks at the stadium to have a hangover today though (at £5.50-£5.80 a drink!)!

    Dan - another fantastic long run there! And nice to still have enough in the tank to stick in a faster final mile!

    I went out yesterday morning with the intention of doing 6 miles, but knowing I could probably stick a bit more in if I felt fine (as my cricket match on Saturday had fallen victim to the rain, so I was rested for once on a Sunday). Went through 5 miles feeling fine, so at that point decided to extend the run to 7 miles and finished in 61:30 for an average pace of about 8.47m/m. First 7 miler since mid-May and at a good pace, so pretty happy with that.


  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Nice Andrew - I felt great today on my run 8:25 avg, with a few middle miles at 8-8:10 pace.

    Um I was in VIP so free drinks and food and Seb Coe sat behind at one point! Competition win so a bit different from this Sun coming where we just have general tickets.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Ah I see, not jealous at all! (would actually be very jealous if it had been Jess Ennis next to you in VIP rather than Seb Coe!)
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Very jealous Curly!!!

    Well done on the 7 miles Andrew.

    10.3 @ 7:49/mi and 73% maxHR. It was very wet!!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Every one seems to be ticking over niclely.

    I've managed to run 5 of 8 days so far, despite it being 30-35c. Got a nice little 6 mile route to Lighthouse and back and a few other shorter loops. Despite the heat, I've been feeling really good in my running. My 3 lighthouse loops so far have averaged roughly 7.55, 7.40, 7.34.

    Amazing what having nothing to do but laze about all day and a 50% reduction in training volume does for the system. Despite the heat my HR stats are where I'd expect them to be at home in cooler temps, which is good. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Good to hear everyone seems to be going well! If only!

    Achilles injury does seem to be making progress and both the consultant and the physio seem happy. It is just very slow! Have had three extra corporeal shock wave treatments and three physio sessions where I have had the chance to run 2 miles on the anti-gravity treadmill: 1 mile at 75% body weight, another at 80%. No pain at the time and no reaction afterwards. Am to up this to two to three times a week. Am to increase the Alfredson's protocol eccentric exercises, including using a lightly weighted back-pack (1kg last week, 2kg next, then 3 etc). Also a lot of strengthening work around the glutes and hip areas as a preventative measure against other injuries. We'll get there in the end! Am now at the stage where I think I could run but know that I shouldn't!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well done to keep the momentum while away DT.

    Dan - that sounds like another good run?

    Patience Alehouse (easier said than done I know!) - sounds like the physio is going well.

    I couldn't run Mon - Weds, so was gagging for a run this evening! Did 7 miles again, this time in 15 seconds faster overall than on Sunday, so about 8:45 pace. Probably right at the fastest end of my long run pace band now, so won't push it anymore until a race performance suggests a revision of training paces!
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Good morning! Sorry been really busy the last few days.

    DT good holiday running. Lazing is brilliant for the fitness isnt it?

    Dr. Dan nice stats. Very wet here too earlier in the week, but lovely now. Hoping it stays for a few days.

    AndrewD when is the next race?

    Alehouse the worst time is when you can run but shouldnt... takes discipline to see the overall plan.

    19:41 in my hilly 5k race yesterday. I reckon it is worth about 20secs on a flat course, but a seasons best, course pb and a county bronze for V35 was a pretty good day out.

    On Friday I visited a friend of mine who is an occupational therapist and a running coach to have a look at my odd running style and the biomechanical reasons for it. Basically my brain isnt taking to my glutes, especially on the left side, which is why I lean my head to the right when fatigued. If you watch earlier videos of Bolt running he does something similar. Remedial glute activations to create some new pathways and I should see an improvement in 2-3 weeks. Continue on with weights/plyos etc., at the same time. This process should allow me to make better energy return so well worth the 5-10 minutes a day time investment.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    And make you run like Bolt ...... ? ;-)

    Next race is likely to be a parkrun in a couple of weeks, and I have signed up to  a 5 mile race in mid-September too.

    Did 5 miles on Friday and a further 4 last night, so keeping things ticking over.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done Curly! Did you notice that the men walked at about the same speed as your 5k...but for the whole of the 20k? Under 20 at 5k, under 40 at 10k etc. No wonder they get pulled out for lifting!

    Booked a couple of sessions on the anti-gravitational treadmill for this pm and Weds, then off to Copenhagen for a few days. Tempted to walk a parkrun, although not at the pace above! 

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Alehouse - it looks to me like they are lifting off the ground virtually every step, so quite how a judge can deem one person (Bosworth for example) is DQ and not the rest I really don't know!

    Did another 4 last night. Wanted to do it at the fastest end of my easy paces, before a slower longer one tonight. Came in at just over 8.30 pace which is about right.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    I have been beaten by a race walker in a 5k before! Its a unique action, but agree that they all "cheat" (unknowingly I think).

    Great session last night, I was leading the group which is unusual and had to reign myself back on the second half because of my 3000m race this sat.
    Session was 5 x 4 mins [2 recovery]
    3 mins recovery
    5 x 90 secs [60secs]

    We did 3 uphills and two downs on the 4 mins, paces:
    6:20, 5:53, 6:17, 5:46, 6:14

    Then 3 downhills and 2 ups for the 90secs where I had taken the effort level down to comfortable:
    6:30, 6:27, 6:13, 6:36, 5:54

    Legs were very tired this morning, but slogged out 4 miles, then thankfully had a sports massage so feeling a lot better now!

    Track tomorrow - will see how I feel before deciding how much volume to do, but its not a huge session so may well do the whole lot anyway.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I am now back from holiday, crawled in at just after 2am. Up at 10am, out by 11am for my midweek 10 miler then in work for 1.30pm.

    Managed to get roughly 40 miles run in the two weeks there which exceeded my expectations. I ended on Monday evening with a progressive 5k at 6.58mm average following a 6.30ish 3rd mile.

    People look at you rather oddly when you are running properly along the coastal path as most folk you see running are going slow. It is also apparent looking on strava. I had the 8th fastest time for 1 segment this year out of around 4000 runs.

    I do find the walking race very bizarre, particularly when they are sub 40 10k in a 20k race.

    I was reading runnersworld USA on the flight last (Readly app) and there was an article on this beer mile, which is done on a track. You start with a beer then after each lap you down one and run again. The guy the article was about was the world record holder in about 4.25!!! Someone else has now gone faster as well. The mind boggles!

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Well done on the holiday running DT. We are going away in September and I am hoping to continue running while I am away too.

    7 mile LSR last night - kept it slower than recently, at around 9.20 pace. It was dark by the time I got home! First time running in the dark for quite some months.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I noticed last night, having been away for 2 weeks, that it was pitch black just after 9. Soon time to get the headtorch out!!

    Feel shattered today. Couldn't sleep last night. I think 2 weeks of no life structure has upset my pattern a bit. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Think you must be a bit north of me as it was pitch black here before 9! Seems to be going by about 15 mins each week, so you would have noticed quite a difference in two weeks.

    And isn't it always the way that you come back from holiday feeling as tired (or more tired even) than before you went away!

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    As I was reminded on facebook the other day, Andrew one of the original posters on this thread by the name of parkrunfan has done a beer mile or two!

    If you want to check out an interesting blog one day his is pretty impressive for progress:
    http://runningonaraisin.blogspot.co.uk/

    (no longer updated since a move abroad).



  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Might come off lurk mode in here eventually. Good thread for an aspiring runner like me.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, I just happened to look out the window at that time and see it was dark. It may well have been dark much longer. I will make a point of noting it tonight so that I don't get caught short in coming weeks.

    Easy 5 miler done this morning between client appointments so at least I can go home after work and relax.

    Hi, JGav! What's your current running and times like?

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    > @DT19 said:

    > Hi, JGav! What's your current running and times like?

    Just switched to run only focus (from olympic distance tri training) having signed up to the Royal Parks Half on 8th Oct. Started running in March 2016, so just over a year into consistent training.

    Standalone 10k pb is 43.40, been too long since I did a standalone 5k (i.e. last timed one was 22min). Never raced longer than 10k. My training plan (Hal Higdon) has me running 6 days a week, though with family commitments, I am only making 5 session at around 30mpw.

    Just finished an intervals session with my running group, 4x1km @ 3.50m/km on 90 second recovery. Felt tough, as it was hot I'm not sure I drank enough this morning.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    JGav - welcome. Sounds like you are at a similar (probably slightly quicker) stage to me, as that interval session sounds about the sort of pace I would be trying to do. 5 runs a week sounds like good going with family commitments - I struggle to fit in more than 4 most weeks!
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Hi JGav and welcome.

    Sounds like a sensible build up to a half. I am not experienced with Hals plans, but I would suggest 5-6 days/30 mpw is a good amount. You just want to watch that you build the endurance for the second half - this is the stumbling block in most people for their first half.

    Nice session by the way. Were you running in a group?

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    > @AndrewD said:
    > JGav - welcome. Sounds like you are at a similar (probably slightly quicker) stage to me, as that interval session sounds about the sort of pace I would be trying to do. 5 runs a week sounds like good going with family commitments - I struggle to fit in more than 4 most weeks!

    Tanya who leads the sessions thought the 3 laps was 1km so was timing us against targets and urging us on for being too slow. When looking at Garmin afterwards it seems it was 1.1km and so we were all pushing up faster than normal to match targets. I've ended up running my km pb in 3.36 where previous was 3.52.

    I have secondary goals of sub20 5k and eventually a sub40 10k. I reckon the HM training will help a lot as I tend to fade at half distance before picking up towards the finish (probably mostly mental).

    > @Curly45

    >Nice session by the way. Were you running in a group?

    I run on Thursday with RunnersNeed Southwark Bridge group. Nice group all around a similar level. Some very good runners (1h20 HMers) mixed in with people like me.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Nice! But surely 3 laps of a track is 1.2km? Unless it is not a track of course...

    If you can run a 1km in 3:36 you can definitely run a sub 20 5k!

    Track session for me tonight. I did half as a race in days.
    2 mins @ 5:36 mins/mile
    2 mins recovery
    800m in 3:00, 75 secs, 800m in 2:54, 75 secs, 800m in 2:54

    Could have easily done another 3 at that pace, but legs are still quite sore from the massage yesterday and I do want them to be fresh for Saturday.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Nice running @Curly45

    Yes, my intervals are on a road loop, not a track. Hard to find something the exact distance but this is close at approx. 370m per loop.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    JGav, I would find 1k at 3.36 tough by the 3rd and 4th rep and my slowest parkrun (when i've been going for it) in the last 2 years is 19.29 (I think!).

    The fade in the middle section and the ability to pick it up is more a mental battle I would say. At 8 miles in a half, you've run a long way and are tired and cannot contemplate another 5 miles. At 11 miles you realise 2 miles is nothing and you have plenty left. I have the same issue predominantly with 5ks.

    Nice session, Curly. I've always been advised when I've had a sports massage or physio, to not train for the remainder of that day as the treatment breaks down and temporarily weakens muscles and always you are undoing the benefits of the massage.

    I have to do a 3 mile tempo run this week so think i'll pop along to parkrun. A friend at a similar level is planning the same to come in about 19.50 so it suits me to sit with him as he is an exceptional pacer.

    I have a slight schedule planning dilemma approaching. In two weeks time I am running the Wolverhampton half and plan to do it at MP. In my schedule that week I have 10 milers at mp and a 15 miler long run. Do I do the 15 miler midweek (though looking at commitments it would probably have to be Friday night) or treat the half as my long run and swap out the 10 at mp to following week and pull in the 5 at mp from that week, which I could do much earlier in week?

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