The Middle Ground

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  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Yes, 3.36 suddenly seems quite a lot harder than the 3.50ish that you expected!


  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    DT19 I had the massage on weds after my run, but yes sometimes I can be sore for two days so just have to live with it on the second ;)

    On your question, you are going to be doing 13.1 miles @ MP + w/u & cd so I would wager that will be 16 miles. I would just combine the two and ignore the 10 mile run. I wouldnt do 15 mile long run two days before a half at MP.

    I would keep the 10 miles midweek, but just run it easy.

    Problem solved :)




  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    yes it'll be 15-16 miles. I feel like I am cheating myself out of a session then though! I am terrible for insisting that when I follow a schedule I have to tick off every run!
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Did a nice 4 mile easy run, HR kept low for a long time but then spiked up a bit and wouldn't come back down even when backing off the pace. Looking forward to my rest day tomorrow.
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    DT19 STOP you are doing the session. You are just doing it combined with a different one. It is the same in training benefit. 

    My coach always says you can feel free to drop 20% of the plan with life etc., Yes if you can do 100% it is good, but 80% gets you most of the benefit anyway. Better to do the spirit of the plan than well over (which is what 15 miler on Friday + 13.1 @ MP is).

    JGav enjoy the rest day tomorrow! 6.5m for me today. Bit too pacey in the middle because I was visualising tactics for tomorrows 3000m!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - I'm not a marathon runner, but my instinct would be to agree with what Curly says as it makes sense to me!

    So long as the weather plays ball this afternoon, my plan is to get in 5 miles after work around 8.45 pace

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Plan achieved - 5 miles at 8:40 pace. Felt easy and good!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Nice progressive parkrun today, came in 19.34 with splits along lines of 6.32, 6.26, 6.20 ish. Felt a good solid effort with plenty to spare. Adam Gemilli turned up to start it ( Was at Canon Hill in Birmingham).
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    7 miles into a 9 mile fasted long run and disaster struck. Right calf pain which had started as a niggle maybe a mile earlier got so bad I had to stop running. Tried stretching it out but no luck. Shuffled/walked home.  Hoping it was just a cramp and nothing worse. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Hope it's nothing too problematic, jgav.

    I went out for 20 today but was feeling so good at half way I extended loop to chalk off a 22 at 7.45 pace. Felt really nice and comfortable, despite me forgetting my drink. 
  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Wow DT19 thats a good weekend of running! 7:45 pace = tasty for a 22 miler.

    Great pic. Oddly my friend has one the same so must have been in B'ham this weekend as well.

    JGav hopefully nothing serious but sore to hear about the calf.

    All about the 3000m for me this weekend. Lined up on the start with 12 other ladies (yes an actual race in a track meet!). From the gun was the only one willing to take it out and as I wanted a time, I couldnt hang around with tactical races. So there is me, first 3000m leading for about the first 1k :s

    Anyway, first lap was FAR too fast as the fear got me about leading a race (80s!), and first K was crazy pace 3:30 (target 3:40). That meant it was all uphill from there, but I held onto third place and got k two and three right, but a little slow at 3:46ish as had expended so much energy at the start. Overall time 11:02.9 (love these split timings you get at track).

    So slightly behind the A goal of sub 11, but very pleased indeed with that speed. Highest wava of the year and second highest ever behind my 5k pb set in 2015.

    Recent race wavas:
    Southern Athletics League Div 3 SE Hastings 19 Aug 11:03 76.70%
    Wimbledon 5K dash 13 Aug 19:41 75.92%
    Wedding Day 7K 28 Jul 28:07 75.67%
    Elmbridge 10K 23 Jul 40:35 75.47%
    Elmore 7 15 Jul 47:23 73.35%
    Coad Cup Handicap Race 11 Jul 33:51 72.26%
    Southern Athletics League Div 3 SE (SAL) - 4x400m 8 Jul 1:12 69.01%
    Sutton 10K 7 May 40:38 75.37%
    Serpentine Last Friday of the Month 5k 28 Apr 19:45 75.43%

    Thinking about having a bash at the 5k pb at parkrun next Saturday (that 19:41 was set on a VERY hilly course).

    After the 3k, I also did leg 1 of the 4 x 400m relay. No pb this time, but legs were shot and we got recalled at the start which never helps the nerves.

    I managed 8 slog miles today (avg pace 9:49!), but was definitely not up for a long run. Amazing how less than 2 miles running takes it out of you...

    Hope Dr. Dan is getting on okay. Not been on for a while.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    I'm here! :D

    Been off work for a couple of weeks, mainly camping, but back to the grind this week ... loads to catch up on at work but will try to read back later. Training has been ticking over okay, although not at routine levels, but I have done the key sessions - two long runs (22 and 16), two parkruns, and two MP/tempo sessions. No bike commuting or recovery running, although did do an 18 mile  cycle with the family.

    Tues 10.3 miles @7:49/m
    Sat 4.7 inc parkrun (20:53 - windy Whitstable , 9th place)
    Mon 22 miles @9:19/m. Hilly and I got lost (planned 20!).
    Wed 6 miles with 4mi at 7:20/mi
    Sat 5.6 inc parkrun (20:30)
    Sun 16 miles at 8:30/mi



  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    A couple of very decent 22 milers there! That's more in a single run than I have managed in virtually any week (apart from 2 exceptions) in the past 16 months!!

    Only 2 more weeks of cricket though, and then I have a bit more leeway (both in terms of free time and strain on the body) for a good few months, so am hoping to wind the weekly mileage up to around the 25 mark from the current 16-20.

    Well done on the 3000m Curly. I'd love to do a track race, but there isn't very much close to me and I would be far too slow for any of the races I suspect. For example I think I would struggle to get below 12.30 for 3000m at the moment.

    JGav - as above, hope the soreness eases and isn't anything serious!

    DT - nice photo with Gemili. He looked pretty fed up yesterday after his DQ!

    I didn't run this weekend. Saturday was cricket day, and I ended up bowling a 9 over spell which left me a bit achey around my right knee (usual sore spot) yesterday morning, so I sensibly binned any thoughts of a run yesterday and enjoyed a large BBQ with friends instead! Can't run this evening or tomorrow for various reasons, so next outing will be my long run on Wednesday evening.

  • Curly45Curly45 ✭✭✭
    Andrew the SAL (southern athletics league) is very mixed, depends on what division the club you join is in. I assume the Northern is similar. My track club is currently in division three, although may have just got promoted off the back of a meet win yesterday.

    You always get slow runners in the longer stuff though as often the middle distance runners/high jumpers etc., get called up to run for points so they just jog round. So don't assume you cant do it. Just be aware you are also likely to get lapped.

    Also, there are various open meets around where you can run as a guest and again they will have slower runners.

    Dr. Dan welcome back! Shame about the wind at Whitstable. Is the course as flat as promised? The 20:30 is a good sign though.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Thanks Curly - a quick look on RunBritain shows there is an open 3000m at a track not too far from where I work on a Tuesday night in a couple of weeks which I may consider (entries on the night).
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Well done, Curly. I think the whole experience of track racing would leave me overcome with nerves! I also don't like the idea of always being able to see how far ahead the front runners are! Definitely worth a parkrun right now.

    Andrew, as Curly says, my club will often have people taking part in multiple events just simply because you get points simply for fielding a runner.

    Sounds like you had an active holiday, Dr Dan.

    I am aiming for a 50 mile training week this week. I have been hovering around 45 for a few weeks now and so want to just nudge that on for a few weeks before I start tapering back. I have decent opportunity this week as well as work is quiet and we are child free Tuesday and Wednesday which means I can get a decent supplemental long run in. Feeling slightly fatigued today after the weekends running so just a spin class tonight.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Well done on the track result @Curly45

    Quick 10 miler @Dr.Dan

    I've spoken to a physio today who thinks it was just increased load on my calf rather than anything worse. Referral to the physio for a couple of sessions, one of the benefits on our company medical insurance is that we get muscular skeletal stuff covered with no excess. Meantime it will be RICE with no running for a few days at least, maybe more depending on what the physio tells me :neutral:

    Might do some swimming instead to keep me moving.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    @JGav - welcome aboard the MG ship! I have done a couple of Olympic distance tris and a few sprints but I am not good enough to class myself as a triathlete ... more of a runner who commutes on a bike and occasionally does a tri. However, I am toying with the idea of making next year's Leeds ITU my main race for the first half of 2018. The physio news looks hopeful!

    @AndrewD Well done on the 9 overs ... got to count as an interval session surely!

    Cycling yesterday ... my chain broke on the way home and so I had a 2 mile walk :s . On the spare today and also planning an MP session later before home time.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    hmmm ... the post above also had a reply to Curly and DT but they have disappeared upon posting. Something to do with trying to adopt JGav's "@JGav" tagging approach.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Curly - well done on the 300m and excellent WAVA. I have only once managed to sneak into the 74% zone. I did write a course description for Whitstable above but it vanished...suffice to say it is basically flat with two ramps but 50% is grass and it it 100% exposed to the wind.

    DT - excellent 22 miler!! I could not survive that distance at this time of year without 1L of water.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Dr Dan, I only take out water if I am going over 15 and it looks very warm. Therefore I can count on one hand the amount of times in the last 2 years I have taken a drink out running with me.

    Decent session over lunch. 2.5m w/u then 4 miles at mid tempo pace then just under a mile cd.

    Was aiming for 6.30mm and average hr of 170. Came out 6.25mm and 169. The sun decided to come out about 1.5 miles in to add to the already horribly humid conditions. By the 4th mile I was drenched in sweat.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Good session DT. I went out at 16:30 and the humidity was ok-ish. 10.6 miles with 8 miles at 7:35/m/80% maxHR. Hard but good hard.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good session, Dr Dan.

    I am off out for a decent 12ish miles tonight. I m at that stage in the schedule now where I appear to be able to absorb a decent volume of training and recover quickly.

    As well as the lunch session yesterday I did a spin class in the evening followed by bodypump and feel fine today. Contemplating a full beans parkrun Saturday. Conditions look still and after tonight, ive a rest day Friday and a short recovery run tomorrow.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    I've not been able to get out for a run since Friday, so am chomping at the bit now! Plan is for 7 miles this evening at c.9m/m pace. Am trying to incorporate some hills into my long runs, even though I hate them! Hoping to parkrun a week on Saturday to see where I am at, before launching into an 11 week 10k plan.

    Sounds like you are in a good place DT - good luck at the parkrun!

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Too much to comment on...except will make mention of water: have never had a drink on a long run...when I was doing regularly 20 milers never even thought of it...was never heard of then! Only time I might have a drink is from a stream on the fells! 

    Was in Copenhagen over the weekend and (stupidly) couldn't resist attending a parkrun, or should I say parkrun-walk: given my problematic Achilles I ran 400, walked 100 and repeat. Finished and no problems. 35 minutes...although I covered 5.49k as I missed an arrow: no marshals! No problems on the Sunday. Monday was less good although averaged nearly 30k a day walking for the four days: largely on cobbles, this probably contributed. 

    Decent couple of sessions on the anti-gravitational trainer, with today worth reporting: 4 miles in 23:45 including 3 x 3/4 mile at under 5 minute pace with 1/4 mile recovery. Not bad at 63 (but won't mention that it was 75% bodyweight).
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Sounds like you are generally making progress Alehouse.

    7 miles tonight in 63:05, so bang on pace.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like you are on the way back, Alehouse. Copenhagen is on my list of places to eventually visit.

    An easy 12 at 7.56 pace last night. One of the great benefits of marathon training is when a fairly decent run feels like a jog around the block. 

    Conditions look very still up here Saturday morning so parkrun looking likely. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    DT: Copenhagen...would definitely go again! Three parkruns there now! Nice MLR also. I think it is that second long run midweek that makes all the difference. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Good luck with the 10K plan Andrew ... what does it entail?

    Alehouse
    - good news on the potential come-back. I have been to Copenhagen many times (work) but I can't really take to it.

    DT - another good run in the bag.

    2 x 5 mile run commutes today. Hate them, but... :|
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