Overdone it?

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  • Disappointed with a pb and silver cell, DT?  You shouldn't be, that's marvellous. Well run!

    Also great running from you, muddy!  Looks very promising for when you put in a full beans effort :)

    I did 18.25km today in just under 1h 45.  My longest run since March to bring up a total of 50km for the week, which is my highest weekly total for two months.  With a bit more speed work and tempo runs, I may soon be ready to enter another race.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    well it's still a 40 second pb so I'll not be too upset. I commented to Andy afterwards that I feel I got more of a response from them at parkrun paces.

    well done, I still think Kenilworth is a pretty tough course. The top 3 today were 1.18 and 1.19 so in semi top form you would have won that. The women's winner was 1.31. A slightly peculiar standard for a city race surrounded by many good clubs. 

    Anyway, where is Skinny with my table update? We had a deal!
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - Well done, I think that's a pretty impressive effort even if you were hoping for a bit more. As you say, can't really argue with a PB.

    Muddy - Seems like you are in solid shape then. If you can bag some consistent sessions over the next 6 weeks you should be flying.

    Pete - Nice to see you hitting some consistent mileage (or should that be kilometerage??)

    20 for me this morning at 7.20 pace. Took the first 10 easy and then picked it up a bit in the second half. Thankfully only one more 20 to go as I'm getting ab it sick of them now!
  • Definitely kilometreage, Mr V ;)  I don't envy you the 20 milers.  I find, at my pace, 20-odd km is more than enough for my long run.  But I'm not training for a marathon - ever!
  • Well done DT B)B)B) - 40 second PB - you're really benefiting from a good long injury free period.

    New updated table attached showing a 40 second improvement in your PB and taking the silver cell from Mace.
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Skinny for the next time you update I should mention I've been 31 for ages now. Unfortunately age is then only thing I ever need updating on the table! I wonder if I'm starting to get any wava benefits yet.....
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Skinny! It's been 2.5 years now of unhindered training (minus the odd virus etc). I never seem to make huge gains in 1 hit, always incremental gains. Steady progress though.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    CARVER WOLVERHAMPTON HALF MARATHON

     

    I thought I ought to do a report on this as it was a pb!

    I initially entered this to do as a mara pace run, however after last weekends parkrun I decided to capitalise on the fitness.

    I had a taper of sorts over last week so my legs were feeling reasonably good, and conditions looked reasonable, albeit a little windier than I would hope.

    I arrived at the race centre in good time and was impressed by the volume of toilets available, something that is always of concern to me. I swiftly did what I needed to do, got changed, dumped my bag and set off on warm up. The ‘race village’ was within quite a large park area so a lap of that did the job.

    A final visit to the toilet and I made my way to the start. This was the 20th anniversary edition of this event. It is surprisingly low key given it is a city event with a large catchment, usually attracting some 600 runners. I had done my research over previous years and knew that anything around sub 1.25 would leave me in or around 10th place. I lodged myself into the second row and awaited the start gun. The plan was to run it at 6.20 pace and try and break 84 minutes.

    The race set off promptly at 9.15 and the usual selection of hopefuls went off at a silly pace. Within 200 metres I felt out of sorts, sweating more than I would anticipate and generally feeling stale. My breathing was controlled, I just didn’t feel I could hit the higher effort.

     Immediately I had the monkey on my shoulder, ‘this isn’t your target half, you don’t need to suffer today, you’ll never survive this pace to the end’. I was also well aware that the field would thin out dramatically which didn’t help my thought process.

    The first couple of miles were generally downhill and both came in at 6.21. I was concerned that despite the profile I was struggling to hold planned pace. Mile 3 involved some climbing and the pace slipped to 6.27. Fortunately this was followed by a downhill period so mile 4 came in at 6.19, to keep the average pace in the right area. By this stage there were a couple of guys about 100m ahead of me and nothing much behind. I generally found that I was struggling to run higher than 6.25 pace.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Mile 5 took us off the main roads into a very random 5-6 mile period where we were essentially running around the side lanes of cul-de – sacs and in and out of a park. On a plus point there was plenty of opportunity to get up off the roads and cut some decent corner distance out. Mile 5 came in at 6.33 and I was really struggling and wondered if I was racing more at 10 mile pace and not half pace.

    At mile 6 we entered a park and after half a mile or so the surface turned to that gravel hard surface which wasn’t great to run on. We were also running into a headwind. This went on for nearly a mile or so, going through 10k in around 39.45.

    Just as I was at my lowest ebb, it became apparent that runners ahead of me were coming back to me. This changed my mentality as I realised I had plenty left to give and I could at least catch them and work with them.

    Mile 6 came in at 6.27 and by mile 7 I was with them (6.25). I tried to sit in with them but realised they were slowing my stride so pressed on with one other coming with me. In the distance were 2 other runners that provided a target. Mile 8 came in at 6.25 as we continued to loop around cul-de-sacs. Mile 9 we caught another runner (6.28) and we were cruising, then a great big climb.

    At this point we caught the back end of the 10k field and I suddenly felt like I was running really fast (mile 10- 6.43). I was tired after this mile but knew from my pre-race research that mile 11 was heavily downhill and fortunately I had a burst of energy to exploit that coming in at 6.14. By this point I was feeling OK and my average pace was at 6.25mm. I knew that I was pretty much aligned with the on course mile markers so this would deliver a decent pb as long as nothing went wrong. To that end, I decided not to push my effort level and accept what was on the table and cruise in.

    At mile 11, still running with one runner from the earlier group, we caught and passed another runner, whom I was aware of being just behind me. Mile 12 ticked over sensibly in 6.37 and mile 13 in 6.40. To my surprise, at the 13 mile point, the guy I had been running with for some time turned off left as he was running the marathon!

    The finish straight was on grass for the last 100m, and it had been raining on and off. With about 50m to go  the other guy came sprinting passed me, which I was not having so accelerated myself into a full on sprint, much to the delight of the crowd, leading to me covering the scraps at 4.58 pace with a max pace of 4.23. It was pretty difficult to run flat out on wet grass and I really struggled to get any traction. We both finished in a deadheat with identical gun and chip times. He placed 11th , I assume on his surname being earlier in the alphabet.

    On analysis of my post race data, my effort by hr was only 170. Looking back at all 3 half marathons that I ran last September my average hr was 174-176. It suggests to me that with a more committed attitude I can get a bit more from Worcester in 2 weeks. This result should take my RB handicap to below 4 or the first time.


  • Oooh, PB!!! Well done DT!

    Skinny, I won a team (gold) medal at the weekend as part of the Scottish Trail Championships. Today though I collected my new car (Hyundai i10) and drove it from Kirkcaldy to St Andrews without dying, which was way more exciting.
  • Well done on casual gold medal and it's always good news when you don't die during a car journey I find (although statistically it is quite unlikely you will be pleased to learn).

    In 2015 there were 1732 fatal accidents on the roads of which 755 were vehicle users. Vehicle users travelled 317 billion miles in total in 2015 (according to the DfT statistics).

    So in a vehicle in the UK you are statistically going to have a fatal accident every 419,867,540 miles. 

    You are 12 times more likely to be seriously injured though so roughly every 35 million miles.
  • Well done DT. More to come on a non cul-de-sac course. 

    Muddy, good effort as well. I'm doing the Birmingham half as s target half, see if I can get below 1:37!<div>
    Lit still winning stuff. Nothing really changes

    Skinny, no pain is all good. 

    I'm just doing steady stuff with a couple of faster bits thrown in to keep the legs guessing. I may do a 10 mile race on Sunday around local villages. I'll see how I feel with jet-lag. 

    It's my last night in new Zealand for s while, so I am in a pub with a pitcher of beer. </div>
  • I set out to do a (theoretical) MP session this afternoon, thinking I would do 4km and extend to 6 if I felt good.  Ha!  Actually managed 2 x 2km with a short, untimed but about 90s, rest between.  Average pace turned out to be midway between MP and HMP but it's also the pace at which I ran Edinburgh parkrun recently :(  This comeback still has a very long way to go!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    well done on the team gold, Lit!

    Keep plugging away, Pete, it doesn't take all that long to pull yourself back to where you were.

    I managed 5 at mp Tuesday as I felt largely recovered from Sunday. Thought I would cut a bit of slack and aim for 7mm. Legs felt fine and came out at 6.47 for 159 ave HR. Rest day yesterday and a 12 miler planned tonight.

    I mentioned in my report the guy that I ran the second half with on sunday. The winner of the marathon did it in 2.53 on a training run so would have ran even splits. The guy I was with went through half in 1.23 and must have been leading the marathon by a good 4 minutes. He ended up 40th in 3.26!! Looking at his strava he is a decent runner as her ran a sub 60, 10 miler as a tempo run in training. It was his first mara and he obviously got it very wrong.

  • You seem to be in excellent shape, DT.  Long may it last!

    Ouch!  :s The second half of that guy's marathon must have been a real sufferfest.  I'd back myself to do a half in 2:03 even in my current reduced state (though obviously not immediately following a much faster half).
  • Well done on the team trail gold Lit. Good effort DT.

    Pete, it's ok to split an mp session like that. I do it all the time. Often I  stop for a breather on ordinary runs too - waiting for invisible traffic, taking in the surroundings etc. Never did me any harm. Well done on the extra mileage too.

    DT - did he do it as a tempo though ? Or did he do 10 miles at race effort ? I had a Strava snoop and looks like he ended up walking the last 3 or 4 miles after a drop off from about 15 miles. Could be that he mixed up half and marathon effort.

    Richard - Fingers crossed we can say hello somewhere near the start but with the thousands that run it could be a tall order. 

    Skinny - Terrifying stats. I'm sure lady drivers fare significantly better too ? 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy, no He said on his strava something along lines of debut marathon, went wrong. His running was odd during the half as he kept dropping off and coming back. It was like he kept renembering that he wasn't racing the rest us so woukd slow then return. 
  • Maybe he just got lonely?
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Sorry DT don't mean a tempo-ed marathon (whatever that would mean), but a tempo-ed sub 60 10 mile run is pretty hardcore ! I understand he might think it was a tempo but it could more likely have been race effort. It's an easy mistake.

    For example I had a progressive 10k at lunchtime yesterday on legs fresh from a rest day and it came out faster than most recent runs on that loop. Coincidentally I wasn't wearing the hrm. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Muddy, yes I realised that after re-reading your comment. Quite possibly, though it's very likely that no matter how hard you run, what you can achieve on your own would be bettered in a race. But yes, he may well have been far closer to full capacity than 'tempo' ought to mean.

    Easy 12 miles last night. Planning some sort of tempo effort lunchtime.

  • Ignoring whether he was flat out or not a 59:59 10 mile at full out race speed should have resulted in a marathon around 2:48/49 if properly trained for the distance.

    Therefore 1:23 at halfway is a little fast but should not have resulted in the total collapse that followed.

    He may have suffered cramp which has a dramatic effect on your minutes per mile as I know.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2017

    Yes, he doesn't mention any particular issue, just says he failed badly towards end. He basically walked the last 4.2 miles. Though it is odd as there was no drift to 8 and 9mm's prior to walking.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1166344393

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    So just over 1.25 for me in my half today which was something of a surprise (in a bad way). Figure something isn't quite right at the moment. Not really sure where that leaves me in regards to the marathon in 4 weeks. Wouldn't want to run it feeling like that. But on the other hand don't particularly want to drop out after doing all the training......
  • Keep at it Mr V, you are at pretty much peak fatigue in the mara schedule now and it's really hard to push the race efforts out with no taper. If you do find you are coming down with a bug 4 weeks should be enough time to clear it.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Mr v, looking at strava it doesn't look like you went out with any aggression. Was it apparent straight away that it wasn't there?

    As Muddy says you are going to be at peak fatigue, plus it's your first marathon so the training load may fatigue you more.

    I've had a reasonable few days. 4 x 1 mile at threshold in Friday off 2 minutes. Came out about 6.17 average. Spin and pump double yesterday and then a solid 22 today at 7.51 pace. 48 miles for the week which for me is decent. 

    Target half next week. I am going to do my best to taper whilst keeping true to Mara training as best I can. 
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    DT - Looking good, you seem to be in really good shape right now!

    Thanks for the input Muddy/DT hopefully I’ll feel more lively after a good taper. The tough thing now is going to be working out what pace is sensible to go out at in the marathon. I’ve done a couple of sessions that suggest I’m in much better shape than yesterday suggests. But on the other hand my last 5K and 10k results have been slow and probably in line with yesterday. Is it sensible to still try and run sub 3? 

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Mr V- I seem to have enjoyed a reasonable level of success at my last 2 marathons by being under ambitious, having been over ambitious in my first one and failing badly.

    4 miles is an awful long way when your body has crashed and your planned pace is sliding away from you. You might well be better off being a little more conservative and aiming for sub 3.05, walking away with positive memories and try again in a year or two.


  • I suppose it depends on how you feel after the long runs in training Mr V. Fading at the end or still going strong ? My first marathon effort was guided by heart rate measurements throughout training and racing, so I was fairly sure (but not confident!) of what was feasible after doing 13 @ marathon effort, barring any disastrous fuelling or cramping issues. I did that effort 3 weeks before Hull. So perhaps there is time to try something like that ?  See how long you can hold sub 3 pace for and be honest with yourself about how you feel at the end of such a session. In my racing at that time I wasn't in *really* good shape during that training block - 37.07 for 10k and just sub 30 for 5 miles. If your races were close to those times, then perhaps it's worth a try for sub 3 ?
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭

    Muddy I did pretty much exactly that last month. I did a 13.1 marathon effort in training in just over 1.26. That was in the middle of fairly heavy training as well. Apart from the legs feeling a bit tired at the end (unsurprising since they were tired to start with) I felt fairly decent at the end. Even if I was working harder than true MP I doubt it could realistically be that much harder. I also did a 10 mile tempo in under 65 minutes last week which again I would have thought should translate to faster than 1.25 for a half. With regards the long runs they’ve generally been ok. The pace hasn’t dropped towards the end and I’ve often done the last 8 or so at sub 3 pace. On the flip side in my last 5k I ran well over 18 minutes and I think I was over 38 for my last 10K, albeit on a tough, windy course with tired legs. So it’s a bit mixed messages at the moment!

  • I'd probably go for it - running not-that-fast for a long time is completely different from trying to run hard for a shorter amount of time, and you'll have the endurance for it from all the training you have been doing.
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