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P&D Autumn Marathon 2017
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Hour of Power session done last night at Ascot Racecourse. The wind had settled somewhat but was still reasonably strong up the hill and worse than when I did it 4 weeks ago, so pleased to manage and extra 100m for a total of 10.5miles. That's 400m further than just before London in quite similar conditions. I'd been feeling sluggish and tired the past few days and doubts had started to creep in, so it's good to get out a good session, suggesting I have improved. Managed to finish pretty strongly and held together fine on the jog home, which is always a sign that I'm going ok. Just easy stuff for the rest of the week now.
Pleased to have that one in the bank and now just 2 more key sessions to go before Abingdon, the Windsor half in 1.5 weeks and 20km with 10 miles MP AM&PM in 3 weeks.
HA - Great double day for you.
Tom - Impressive MLR at early o'clock!
Nothing to note here, recovery continues. 7m GA Tue, 5m recovery Weds and 8m with 8*100m strides today. I note my HR starts to creep up at the end of my runs, suggesting I'm still not fully recovered, which is annoying as I really want to have a good crack at this marathon. Off to Portugal tomorrow, so will get some warm weather training done which should be perfect prep for Birmingham in October
Great work getting out in early in that weather Tom - how was the second run?
Strong session HA77, I'm sluggish this week too - maybe just mid plan tiredness.
Thanks for the pacing tips, I have an older garmin so might print out one of those pace bands as backup. If I rely on my maths skills there will be a lot of disappointed runners in my group.
Another top double session HA, looks like you’ve made good progress. I want to try the “hour of power” if only because it has a cool name
Well done getting the MLR done in terrible conditions Tom. No point worrying about paces in the wind.
Congrats on the PB AWC, great result given it wasn’t flat out - good confidence builder.
SteveMac - not sure I’d worry too much about the HR, its natural for HR to slowly rise over a run even if the effort is the same. Also, HR is naturally suppressed during heavy training, so can creep up when recovering.
The only time I used a pace band was in the Hackney Half, where the mile markers were up to 1/2 mile out at some points! So that didn’t work out very well...
10 miles along the canal with some strides this morning. Quite chilly, still in short sleeves but I did wear gloves for the first half!
Running a PB when not all out is very impressive AWC and a sign of what good shape you are in. Congratulations!
Another fantastic double day HA. Really looking forward to seeing how you go in the upcoming races. I also like the name "hour of power" and keen to give it a bash. Remind me of how the session works.
Time for gloves Spoons but don't mind it being chilly as long as it's not too windy!
Family issues got in the way of another run yesterday so the double will have to wait. 7 miles easy this morning. Feeling very slow and lethargic this week!
Spoon - You'll have to put an Hour of Power in your next training plan. I've got my London program planned already too.
AWC - I'll be racing the half flat out. I've decided to prioritise a few key sessions in my program (the half being one of those) so I'm keen to run it hard. I'll probably skip my usual second session next Wednesday and have a bit of a taper, then take a bit more recovery afterwards if I feel I need to. I've been surprised in the past how quickly I can get over a half marathon, so hopefully it'll be the same again.
SteveMac - Hope the recovery continues
JCG - I think for me a lot of the time my sluggishness is mostly in my head.
Just a ploddy 7ish miles today.
JCG your questions has yielded some solid advice. Good idea regarding a pacing band. I think I’ll also go for a consistent effort – so slower up and faster downhills, but not by much.
NE at least one shoes were for different feet.
Spoons – I think that is the only Worcester segment I regularly do that I am faster on. Once Abo is done, I will have to do some proper strava wanker running and go segment hunting. Quite a good fartlek session, to be fair. Steve Way says he runs the BAC sessions at MP for 18 minutes+, down to LT for 6 minutes and vO2 for shorter intervals. That’s roughly about what I’m aiming for. I quite like the flexibility of it. Best of luck in the Worcester 10k – what is your current 10k PB?
Excellent double day, HA. That evening session is incredible with 10.5M at 5:42s on a hilly course with not yet dormant wind. Impressive. Your final two hard efforts look nicely spread pre Abo.
Battling with Aileen at 4.20am, Tom? Great work!
Super work on the PB, AWC! Especially when it was unexpected.
A much needed easy recovery after yesterday’s efforts. First running jacket of the Autumn for me this morning. Single digit temperature so not super cold, but I am keen not to repeat the experience of VLM this year when it felt ludicrously hot.
Rutland Half on Sunday. Reasonably large event. I think 500 for the marathon and 750 for the half. Strangely, the marathoners start at 10am, then the half runners at 10.02, along the same route. Looking at the timings, that will mean having to run through the entire field in the first few miles. Frustrating.
HA - Thanks, I will definately be giving the hour of power a go at some point too.
Glad to hear others are also planning out schedules for next year! I'm getting mine sorted to, thinking of using P&D 55-70 instead of up to 55, but don't really want to run 6 days a week.....which session would you drop, or would you just stick to the up to 55 plan as that's already 5 days??
More good stuff from HA & SQ.
Tuesday's Mile was a disappointment for me - I only just managed to scrape under 6 minutes. Conditions were pretty atrocious with Aileen hitting us on the highest athletics track in Britain but I guess my powers of recovery let me down. HR only averaged 157 (which gave me beats/mile of slightly over 900) so that is usually a sign of fatigue. Not been sleeping enough
Ah well, better now than in spring next year I suppose.
I'd rather keep you in running you see because if you come back to triathlon I think you're in my age-group
Having come from duathlon, I was only running 25-30 miles so every mile needed to be quality. I think I carried that idea on, but doing 55 miles a week for 4 with 5.30-6.20 pace miles with a half marathon for good measure has proved to much for me.
It's all a learning journey I suppose. The problem I just enjoy running and riding fast.
I enjoyed the blog post HA. I had a similar experience to you last year. After managing a couple of runs over 20 for Hull, I spent a month racing frequently before tapering for the race, sacrificing long runs in effect for hard tempo runs. I didn't much go for the training on tired legs theory as for me tired, tight muscles get injured, but I was definitely carrying fatigue through that period as there was no tapering involved for the races. I think that helps with what you call 'muscle endurance' in the sense that you teach your body to recruit more fibres as a certain proportion are spent at the start of each run.
Similarly in training for a half after Hull marathon, I barely touched the longer runs. But raced 6, 8 and 10 and hm (90%) distances in the run up then tapered with a 5 mile race and 2 x 10k races. So I went practically a month before the half without a run over 10 miles but lots of strong tempos. Overall mileage was reasonable at around 45 mpw, with hard days that combined a weights session with mp runs. Again issuing the muscles with a challenge to recruit fibres to aid spent ones.
Tom, I can understand your disappointment with your half time, but I could have remembered wrong but weren't you cruising out big runs of 20 and 15 at around 6.30-6.50 pace in the week before ? Even if you've become accustomed to running those paces (and perhaps regarding them as easy), those volumes and paces in the week before a half are going to have a big effect. Sure a decent taper will help you out enormously. If Abingdon is the priority then its totally cool not to taper - but I wouldn't expect best results otherwise.
Joe, the weather couldn't have been much fouler on Sunday, barring hail - very well done. If others decline the Kona opportunity does it get pushed down ? I was talking to a (young lady) pool manager that had qualified for Kona earlier in the year and she was saying the cost was running into the thousands for flights plus accommodation
Hard luck on the mile Jooligan, looks like we're on the cross country weather now.
Well done on the pb AWC.
Steve, saw on Strava that you run in the West Midlands.. Are you doing Birmingham half or mara?
Glad runnings going well JCG
I did a tough session Tuesday night in the wind and rain. Not fast at 6.30 ish min/mile av but a lot of effort expended over around 8 undulating miles. I was hoping for a geek out stat fest in the aftermath but my watch died and failed to capture it.
Yesterday's recovery run was a proper recovery. Dawdling around, sweating profusely with cold sweats, having a few walking sections. Just when I felt normal again, I decided to draw it to a halt.
Double day today, 3+7 all nice and easy. Heart rate metrics show me to be as aerobically fit as the week before London, off very different training. Go figure.
Sounds like a great place to be Muddy. Looking at HR data from my 7M run this evening I appear to be as aerobically fit as I was last November albeit considerably slower, by January I was running similar paces but with higher HR. My knee packed up in February. In March I was hobbling along with a similar HR to today but 10-20s/mile slower. Is this progress? I'll have to repeat the run a couple more times to be sure. I guess I never really recovered after Abingdon last October. I was disappointed with the time raced twice the following w/e & managed to PB on both my local parkrun & in a 5M fell race so figured I was OK. A week later I began my first P&D cycle but never really took the cutback weeks seriously enough. Lessons to be learned maybe.
Just checked the Strava leaderboard & something's amiss HA has the highest mileage & Spoons has gone AWOL! Fairplay to HA 2nd fastest average pace with 2nd highest elevation to boot. That's some week you're having.
I know you're tapering Spoons - hope the weather's kind in Worcester at the w/e. If so you should annihilate that PB the way training's been going. Not to mention the Vaporflys.
Like Jooligan, I was disappointed with my mile. My previous attempt, 18 months ago, is according to runbritainrankings, my best ever race performance across any distance... so I had high hopes. But I was 29 seconds slower at 6:19.3. I'm 7 or 8lb heavier now. And the weather was a bit worse than last time. I'm older. Not quite as fit... and having 5 minutes of running is a pathetic way to warm up for a mile. And the shoe trouble. Now I've written all that down, perhaps it was remarkable I wasn't a lot slower still! Went out a bit quick too.... even though I was last at the end of lap one. 4 laps of the 440yd track.... 86s, 95, 101, 97... with my HR reaching 175bpm (I have 176 as my max HR).Nice to meet Jooligan afterwards though.
Sounds like your training is going well. Good to see your fitness is up, despite the lower mileage.
NE - Sounds like a decent time, given the circumstances.
Jools - Spoons, Alan and others will have plenty of time to catch up on me as I probably won't run at all over the weekend and a slow run today should bring the pace down a bit too.
Why does this not surprise me. I could see that you might see a cutback week as a chance to fit in 3 or 4 more races.
Phil - That's a bugger about the injury. I'm sure you can recover while maintaining fitness on the bike. Heaps of time until London. I also enjoy running around 6-6:30/mile and tend to do that lots when I'm not particularly focussed on training for anything. I find that when I start training properly and really focus on the speed sessions, my other runs automatically slow down. I'm really not worried at all what pace my other runs are, the main thing is getting to the next speed session in a state where I can really hit it hard. Most of the way around yesterday's 7 miler I was only just under 8/mile. I think last week's average pace of about 6:40/mile for the 65 miles is the fastest I've averaged in a decent week of marathon training. I think my average pace for the 12 weeks up to London was pretty much spot on 7/mile.
SteveMac - I agree with AWC, just follow the 5 day/week up to 55 mile schedule but take some of the sessions distances from the longer schedules.
Might have 3 hours to myself this afternoon, so may squeeze in a longish run provided my legs feel up to it.
Sorry to hear about the injury Philip. Hope it heals quickly.
Sounds like yo are very fit Muddy and training is going well. I take your point on the tapering aspect. Will certainly be doing so to some degree for Cardiff and then a proper 2 week job for Abo.
Not too shabby a performance in those set of circumstances NE.
Looking forward to hearing about a huge PB on Sunday Spoons. Hope you make the correct footwear choice!
Felt much more like it this morning. Chilly but little wind to speak of and legs had a bit of bounce back in them. 11 miles @ 6:08s and enjoyed it.
Have a good Friday everyone.
HA yes I will definitely give it a go. I’m planning to roughly follow the P&D plan but will replace the LT runs with a mix of BAC sessions, “hour of power” and the mixed pace LT runs from “Faster Road Racing”.
Thanks SQ, and good luck for your half too. My PB is 37:47 currently.
Bad luck on the mile Jooligan, but it’s not terrible given the conditions and your busy weekend.
Similarly NE, given the conditions that’s a decent performance, and based on the HR it sounds like you gave it your all!
Sorry about the injury Philip. Take it easy.
Nice session muddy.
Great 11 miler Tom glad you’ve got your bounce back.
Just a five mile recovery for me this morning as I really start to taper back. This head cold still hasn’t totally shifted but it doesn’t seem to be affecting my HR on runs so not too worried and feeling pretty confident about Sunday. I’m running faster now than I was back when I ran 37:47, and I'm fresher, so definitely keen for a PB. Given I managed around 6:00/mi for the 5 miler on a bumpy course and wind, and I've had more good training since then, I can hopefully hit low-37 or perhaps even sneak under 37 if I have a good day. Forecast is looking pretty good at the moment so fingers crossed…
Sounds like it was far from ideal conditions Jooligan and NE so still good to pull out your performances.
Spoons - in top shape for your 10k, am sure you'll get a low 37 at least. Guess you will be in the vaporflys?
Tom - rapid slow run as usual, wish I could bang those out.
SQ - good luck tomorrow, you've banked some great sessions so a fast time for sure.
HA77 - huge week, confidence must be high for a 2:30. This time round I've done all my runs at a slower pace than last year, except for the VO2 max runs. I feel great aerobically but not speedy so will be interesting to see how it translates into the HM tomorrow. Main target is to break last year's PB of 83:40
Thought I'd pop my head back in, been a while!
Still having the same problems,been doing a mixture of cycling and gym work but really lost motivation recently. Saw a specialist earlier in the week who said I wasn't injured it was simply my glute not activating properly causing the bone above the knee to rub and the quad to pull out of its normal position. Been giving some exercises to do and then will be going back in a few weeks. Lets hope it works!
Plenty of fantastic work going on but just want to pick out Joe's Ironman, just brilliant. Can't imagine how quickly you'd have gone on a good course and in better conditions
Nice to see you popping in Scott. Hope you can get that sorted!
Good luck SQ,John, Spoons and anyone else racing this weekend.
Sorry to hear you've been suffering Scott, hope you're back to it soon.
Jogged down to the local parkrun this morning to support a friend, to find Steve Cram was running it (his company organises the Worcester 10K). Kind of wish I'd ran the parkrun so I could say I beat Steve Cram at 5K, but stuck to the plan and just did a few strides while my friend ran. Conditions were perfect, so hopefully they're the same tomorrow!
Did 4 miles at 7 m/m this morning without any issues, so hopefully I stopped running before proper damage done. I've done over 6 hours cycling on the turbo trainer this week so I don't think I will have lost anything. Lesson learnt though, on my easy days I'm going to either run slower than 7m/m or more likely cycle instead and drop running mileage with more cycling.
Good to hear it was a minor Phil.
Good luck SQ, Spoons & John.
Was almost at Worcester Pitchcroft myself today Spoons but decided on Merthyr instead before a long run around the Brecon Beacons. Really pleased with a sub 20 & 2nd place on a lumpy course. HR was still slightly low but got it up to 169 at the end.