Shades Marathon Training

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  • Big G - cross post. Glad I made you go faster in your HM! I'm sure you have a big purple patch of PBS coming up going by your Munich marathon pacing. :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks SK.  I have had a good year this year with PBs in 5K, 10K, 10-mile and marathon.  The gap there is Half Marathon, but the one I raced I had a shocker for some reason, and I won't get time to have another crack at one this year now (the second Half at Munich was quicker then when I raced a Half in June!).  Also, I still didn't go under 20mins for a 5K (20:01 at a parkrun, and 20:14 at an official 5K event), but maybe next year :)  I don't really have any other race distances planned for the rest of the year, apart from a few more marathons, so it's unlikely I'll chip any more time off of any other race distance this year.  I think my last chance to improve at the marathon this year is Abingdon, as the others I have are lapped ones, including a planned double, so after Abingdon it will be more about getting around and/or maybe sneaking another couple of sub-4s.  We'll see though :)    Looking ahead to next year, I may target Barcelona when I get there in March, but obviously that's a long way off, and really I just want to keep the consistency over the winter.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Nick - I expect it's only VLM's IT manager that actually knows how the ballot is drawn.  Of course they would say it was random as they don't want entrants to falsify projected finish times or any other info

    Louey - I would certainly believe that they've had a 30 % increase in ballot entries, running is going through another boom period and beginners will always be attracted to London as their first (or only) marathon.

    I don't like using a head torch but the one I have that I've liked the best was from Home Bargains, I think it was about £2, not sure if they stock them now. :)

    Cal - I'm not surprised you're aching after your fast walk.  I hope the doc has good news for you tomorrow and you can at least stop worrying about 'what if'.   And don't think you're completely on your own, we're here.

    Hi Jugula - sorry to hear you've been poorly.   Not tempted back to a sneaky marathon next year?

    mamafox - rotating training shoes is supposed to cut injury risk so I guess it would have the same effect in rehab.   At least a pair of training shoes don't go to waste and cheaper than a couple of physio appointments.

    Hill reps is the easiest way to do a MHR test, gets it over quickly. :'(

    That's good timing doing a Half 2 weeks before your marathon as that will tell you what shape you're in and what you can aim for at the marathon.

    A split recovery run sounds like a contradiction, I guess that pace is the slowest of all the P & D paces?

    Iain - I thought you were maybe just a bit tired, great training run

    Big G - similar situation for me, my parents are dead and no brothers and sisters, I have some very good friends but wouldn't want to call for their help unless I really had to.

    That's interesting about your conversation with RK, he definitely needs to spend some time talking running, or reading or social media.  I don't know him well but it seems he's fixed in his idea of how to run a marathon, I don't think he'd have got round DD without Fizz at his side.   You can certainly help him get that sub 4, as his PB was his first marathon he certainly has the capability.

    Jelly - I sometimes see Smokes cycling to work on the Brunel/Kingsteignton footpath, it's the moustache I see first!

    Mild again today, another run in race shoes, had to try out a Devon hill, up and down and I've got the elastic lacing just right now :)


  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Shades, I've put my bike away for the rest of the week and driving to work, club tonight which I will take it easy and that's it for the week. Maybe a you tube video I use with gentle stretches.  Could of done without the 12 day straight work this week but planning on doing as little as poss. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, regarding RK I think when he was younger he was a very good triathlete.  He went to some competition abroad as he qualified, although he was a reserve so I don't think he raced.  But he was decent I think.  He's not 40 yet so he's got plenty of time for the marathon.  I was talking to my roommate (Tweedie, not sure if you know him?) who got his PB when he was 48 and did a 3:09 marathon and a 1:27 Half that year.
  • Cal - Hope the Doctors has some good news for you.
    Louey - I have a Unilite which is very bright.
    Shades - Yes, recovery paces in P&D are the slowest paces. I think the idea behind the split runs is to get the mileage up but without putting too much stress on the body.

    Sports massage last night, which was painful as quads and calfs were very knotted, but I'm used to that now!! 7 miles with 2 at marathon pace this morning. MP miles came out at 6:59/7:03 so slightly too fast, but happy with that.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    so many posts on here, by the time I've caught up with last night's posts, there are more :)   It's good though, I'm not complaining.

    SK - even in the town where I live some of the streetlights are turned off at night and others have had the new dimmer bulbs fitted and you can't see so well, at least early in the morning I can often run in road which is lit better than the pavements.

    That was a good training session, lines you up nicely for the 10 mile race this weekend.

    Jelly - good idea not to cycle just in case, plenty of sleep.   Are you travelling up on Saturday?

    Big G - that's interesting about RK being a former triathlete, so that would have been for the sprint distance and that's probably partly what's reinforced the 'go out hard' method that he has.

    Age is not a factor when it comes to PB's especially in the marathon, of course at some point it does become a limiter but it's the training and preparation that matters.   My last marathon PB was at aged 54.



  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - xpost!   Re P & D paces, that makes sense, I think I'd be tempted to do it in one lot as mamafox did, but it's a matter of fitting it all in.

    That's quite close to race day for a sports massage that hurt.

    Do you carbo load a lot?



    I'm just going to make another coffee and then will update the marathon list with those shiny PB's

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Marathon List 

    13th March
    Enigma - Milton Keynes
    Big G - PB 3:54:17   

    2nd April
    Manchester
    Cal - PB 4:29:29  
    Ian5 -  4:29
    Steve -  PB 3:10:15  
    NickW2 - PB 3:24:59  

    9th April
    Paris
    SuzSaville82 - PB 4:26  
    Rotterdam
    Emmy 4:42
    Brighton
    Louey  - 4:24:45

    23rd April
    London
    Big G - 4:00:59
    Iain Love - 2:57:49
    Slowkoala - 3:12:43
    Southampton
    Jugula - 4:21

    29th April
    Plym Trail
    Big G - 4:29
    Shades - 5:01

    7th May
    Great Welsh
    Shades - 4:44:12

    13th May
    Marathon de Blaye 
    mamafox - 3:40 - 3rd place and she did win the wine  

    14th May
    Hereford
    Shades - 4:45:59

    21st May
    Worcester
    Shades - 4:53:46
    Leiden
    Big G - 3:54:25
    Emmy - 4:42:59 (including beer stops)

    27th May
    Saturday Night
    Iain - 3:20:45 Winner   

    28th May
    Liverpool
    Cal - 4:37:52
    Dorchester
    Shades - 4:56:16

    3rd June
    Dartmoor Discovery
    Shades  - PB 6:32:17 

    11th June
    Yeovil Marathon
    Shades - 5:13

    15th June
    Dorney Lake 6 Hour
    Shades - 5:29:59  B 

    18th June
    Enigma Clueless
    Big G - 5:09:58 B

    24th June
    Giantshead
    Emmy - 5:56

    24th/25th June
    Harp 24
    mowzer - 28 miles

    25th June
    Boddington Marathon
    Shades - 4:59:57

    2nd July
    Wirral Ultra
    Ian5 - PB 7:01 

    9th July
    LDWA From Here to There
    mowzer 9:06

    15th July
    Chiltern Challenge 50km
    Steve - PB 5:06 

    23rd July
    Ironman Marathon
    Iain - 3:29:54

    29th July
    Enigma Planes
    Big G - 4:35

    6th August
    Gloucester
    Big G - 3:58:10

    12th August
    SVP 100km
    Steve -  PB 12:22 

    13th August
    54321
    mowzer - 7:50

    Isle of Man
    Shades - 4:59:06

    3rd September
    City to Sea 
    Big G - 5:28:53

    14th September
    Dorney Lake 
    Big G - 4:14:12

    17th September
    Lancaster
    Ian -  PB 3:34:41 

    24th September
    Loch Ness
    Shades 5:06:10

    1st October
    Plym Trail
    Big G - 4:44:59

    8th October 
    Chester
    Ian - PB 3:31:26 

    Munich
    Big G - PB 3:42:38 

    Yorkshire
    Lily - PB 5:07:15 

    15th October
    Birmingham
    Steve
    John
    Jelly

    Burton Bradstock
    Shades

    22nd October
    Marine Corps Marathon
    Emmy

    Abingdon
    Big G
    Louey

    29th October
    Dartmoor Vale
    Jelly

    Dublin
    Shades

    3rd November
    Halloween 
    Big G

    4th November
    Halloween
    Big G

    11th November
    Phoenix Remembrance
    Iain

    12th November
    Phoenix Jurassic
    Emmy
    Iain


  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Yes good old national express Saturday Am  not too early 8 ish and get up there about 1.30 coming home on the Monday as I'm seeing friends and family. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Jelly - National Express is a good stress free way to travel.  You'll have a nice long weekend up there.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I've not long been back from my first run since Sunday, and felt okay.  I think the walking Sunday afternoon and Monday have helped.  I did 7-miles and had a slightly whinging left hip, but I think that may be down to my shoes which have now done nearly 550 miles so I probably need to retire those.  I have another pair that have done 500 and my remaining training shoes about 100, so I need to get some more soonish.  After Sunday, I am definitely going to keep an eye out for the model I ran in (they are the ones RW gave me for that article I did), as they felt really good.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that was a bonus getting those shoes from RW and they suit you well.

    I've just been trawling the shoe websites for another pair of race shoes for me, managed to find a pair of Guide 9's at £40 BUT they are PINK so I won't wear them unless I can dye them.   Has anyone had any success dyeing/spray painting trainers?

  • mowzermowzer ✭✭✭
    Big G / Shades - RK might also have been influenced by TW (previous chairman of 100MC) who frequently and publicly advised going out as fast as you can, for as long as you can, as the way to run a marathon. He reckoned that each time you would get a bit further before slowing (collapsing, giving up, taking up bowls) but that just seems a recipe for disaster, injuries, stress and disillusionment. Many runners seem to think he's god though and will do whatever he says without actually thinking for themselves. 
  • New to the site and been running for about 3 months regularly and up to about 10-11 miles. My goal is to run the Belfast marathon in May 2018, was considering using the plan on London marathon website. Any tips or training plans greatly appreciated! 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    mowzer - funny you should say that about TW.  I know someone else working their way up to their 100th and doing it in a short time, she does a lot of TW's races.   At the IOM she was a good 5 mins ahead of me at halfway and I then finished 8 minutes ahead of her and I had slowed a lot in the 2nd half, (by 14 minutes).   She was surprised at the finish that I had finished in the time that I did, so I guess she's following TW's daft advice.

    The runners that I see doing a big positive split don't improve unless they change the way they run the first half and/or improve their training.   There are several in the 100MC that I regularly pass in the 2nd half although I've slowed as well, just not as much as they have.

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Hi Belfast Runner - I missed Belfast marathon this year due to injury but I do like that race and I'll be back sometime to do it again.

    I haven't seen the plan on London marathon website and nor have I heard anyone mention it, I'll go and have a look now.

    If you want one of my plans pm me your email address and I'll send them to you, in Excel format.

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Belfast Runner - I don't know which plan you're looking at on the website.   Martin Yelling has written some of them and he knows his stuff.   However, for a slower runner I wouldn't advise the longest run to be 3.5 hours, I would always advise to run by the distance not the time.

    Have you done any races?   The more race experience you have before your marathon the better.  You're at a level now when you should be considering a half marathon soon.

  • Shades - I've been looking for some Guides too and keep coming up with the pink pair! They're quite a nice pink though, better than pastel. But I'd rather have a different colour. Not sure about dying shoes, you'd have to go black, wouldn't you? And I'd be worried the colour would go after a rainy run! I've looked at the 10s too, but not tried them - they look more built up than the 9s.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    SK - these are £40 at Sports Direct, I normally take a 7 but could easily have a 7.5.   No, a horrible pink IMHO, I don't mind spraying them black if I could find the right stuff to dye them with.   I did find some spray which is tough and waterproof but that was £12, so with the carriage for the shoes the cost starts to ramp up.   I might wait until the Guide 10's drop in price which they should do by the end of the year.

    https://www.sportsdirect.com/saucony-guide-9-ladies-running-shoes-215560?colcode=21556006&awc=5374_1507720488_7f18f029f612fe6422ed753498fb3155&utm_source=Affiliatewindow&utm_medium=Affiliates&utm_campaign=awin

  • SHADES said:
    Belfast Runner - I don't know which plan you're looking at on the website.   Martin Yelling has written some of them and he knows his stuff.   However, for a slower runner I wouldn't advise the longest run to be 3.5 hours, I would always advise to run by the distance not the time.

    Have you done any races?   The more race experience you have before your marathon the better.  You're at a level now when you should be considering a half marathon soon.


    Shades -Thanks for the response, the plan I had looked at was this https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/trainingplans/intermediate-17-week-training-plan/ 
    tho I plan to be slightly ahead of that by the time the 17 weeks training should begin.
    I've only taken part in 10k races, but plan on attempting half marathon distance within the next month or so.
    I'll message you my email address 
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Welcome BelfastRunner.  Personally I couldn't get me head around time plans.  Good Luck. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Mowzer/Shades - RK does a lot of TW events, so as you say his race strategy could be something to do with that.

    Welcome BelfastRunner.  :)  
  • I don't get the "go out as fast as you can and hold on" approach, surely it just ends in a world of pain?!!

    BelfastRunner - Yeah, I prefer distance plans too rather than time, but use whatever works best for you.
    Shades - I would normally have had my massage last week, but wanted it after my interval session/race, so yesterday was the best choice. I don't massively carb load, but will have a few extra carbs this week, I find if I have too much it leaves me feeling bloated.
  • Shades - those shoes are £80 when I click on the link, maybe I need to clear my cookies!

    Welcome Belfast runner! Shades does a great marathon plan, I used it for my 1st marathon.
  • Thanks for the welcome messages! Great to see what other people have done and what has worked. A lot of info online, but don't rarely do you see how successful they are.
  • https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/sau3023/saucony-guide-9-women's-running-shoe/
     
    Shades - I have these are they're a nice colour! £59 and they have a 7.5. Tempted to get another pair myself.
  • BelfastRunner - I second Shades plans, used for my second marathon and got a big PB (17 minutes).
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Errrm Shades - you'd better add me to the list for Burton Bradstock as I seem to have accidentally entered....  :blush:
  • Mildly moist up here today it seems. Handily i got to work fine as train line was shut later on otherwise i had no means to get there as i am at the back end of a eye infection bad enough to make it look lile tyson had battered me all weekend long ;) Barely 50% vision in left eye so driving was a tad interesting and i am at grans for the week as aunt is on holiday too.... GOt lift back on monday and stayed there yesterday. Should be fine to drive back tonight bar the minor bit of flooding. Fire engine just bombed thru village too then came back 10 mins later so god knows whats going on there. Cant see as facebook is down currently.
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