P&D Autumn Marathon 2017



  • The downhill stretch at the end sounds awful! 
    1h30 MLR early fasted this morning. Quite enjoyed it really but it takes quite a bit out of me after.
  • Two races and a report all in one day Jools, immense work.  The Strava profile tells its own story, I don’t know how you would prepare for that climb in miles 23/24, physically or mentally.  Strangely drawn to it, although not the hotel Passat bit. Top work.

    Thanks for the comments folks, appreciated.

    John - I bought a Petzl Reactik +. Probably a bit overkill for my needs but it was in a sale.  I think it gives 80 lumens for 10 hrs which was bright enough for me on marked trails.  I’m not sure about having a pacer, my biggest fear would be inflicting a 6hr death march on someone in the middle of the night with a misery guts.  I’m lucky in that I can eat most things. The gu gels and tailwind worked a treat for me with a few other sweets/warm soup here and there.  The only dip I had was maybe where I forgot to keep refuelling. Mars bars and Haribo sours soon sorted that.

    Joe - as Jools noted, all told, 30 people completed the Slam and I was chuffed to finish in 10th overall time.  Some of those will be doing the 4x50 slam as well ! Funnily enough, I ran with a Kona qualifier for part the way. He was running massively within himself but a more down to earth guy you couldn’t wish to meet.

    katie - I wouldn’t say I had a low this time out but previously 75-80 seems to be about the time it gets really tough, coupled with a good chunk still to go.

    Well done the PR’s and volunteers this w/e - I was also in the later category and didn’t envy the runners one bit.
  • Oh and Phil - I found the fasted bit tough to start with but the body does seem to get used to it.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Here's the route PROFILE & for the dedicated marathon aficionados highlights were on S4C today at 4:30. Catch-up available HERE - commentary is in Welsh though. I do make a cameo appearance or 3 but great watch for anyone considering it as you get to see the course & terrain.
    Yes Phil the final descent's been murder every time so far as my legs are so battered by then.
  • Really enjoyed the report Jooligan. That race is definitely one I'd love to do in the future. Only you would squeeze in a parkrun beforehand! Nutter.

    Ended up running a marathon yesterday - got slightly carried away. Was too scared to do a MP run so settled for a long steady aerobic effort. Got to mile 22 and realised if I ran the last 4 at 6.30mm I'd sneak under 3 hours. So obviously muggins here decided to do that. 

    Body feels good today, going to have a rest day today (shock, horror) and ease back into the week. Racing a half marathon on Saturday. 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017

    Macca: congratulations on a fantastic achievement – I’d be wearing those buckles with pride if I was you. Thanks for another great race report – really enjoyed it, especially as a 100 miler is definitely on my list to do in the next couple of years. You really didn’t have the best conditions what with battling storm Brian – a 100 mile is going to be tough enough without a storm. Interesting that you managed to use gels the whole way through as I struggled on my 50 miler and gave up on gels halfway through as I felt ill – I stuck to crisps, soup and bread which I was able to handle much better (although like you I’m very partial to fizzy sour Haribos!).

    Jools: that’s a beast of a hill mile 22 – had a look at the course profile and it looks even worse than you describe it. Sounds like a pretty good race after the wine and parkrun prep!

    Joe: that's just nuts running a sub-3 marathon in training like that. Shows you are in great shape - hope you recover quickly.

  • Great work at Snowdon Jooligan, that’s one tough course! Love that you did a parkrun beforehand too. 

    Sorry to hear people were rude to you while volunteering Katie, what were they doing? I was lucky to experience nothing but very thankful runners, was a lovely atmosphere.

    Great weekend of training Joe, sub-3 training run is very impressive.

    Back to it today with five miles somewhere between recovery and easy effort. Good to be back out, very chilly but it was a beautiful sunrise. Nice to have an extra hour of light in the morning, at least for a short while.

    Saw Dewi Griffiths had a superb 2:09 debut at Frankfurt yesterday. Between him, Hawkins and Farah the next few years could be quite interesting for British male marathon runners.

  • Macca - Brilliant report, sounds like a really well executed race. 10th out of 30 GS finishers is impressive.
    Jools - Great running, that hill towards the end looks like hell!!
    Joe - A sub 3 hour training run....kudos!

    Thanks for the feedback on the targets all :)
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Just caught up on the race reports.

    Macca - you make it sound easy. Really impressive, massive congratulations. A real contrast between that latest report and your 1st 100 miler. Seems like you can take anything in your stride, including storm brian.

    Jooligan - crazy to run a parkrun the day of a super tough marathon but I wouldn't expect any less from you. Like your style. Great effort in the marathon even though it wasn't the result you were after. Having that big climb near the end sounds like a real killer.

    10ish miles today. Felt easy at a decent pace but my back and hamstrings are a bit sore.
    I think it was sitting alot in cars and planes over the weekend and not running.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Thanks for the positivity - personally I think I need my head examining. My parkrun obsession is definitely impacting negatively on some of my race results. Snowdonia Marathon being a case in point - still think I'd have struggled with the final hill but might have made it that far before slowing. That said it was the hamstring which really destroyed my prospects rather than lack of endurance.
    Yesterday I was struggling to walk. Had a pub roast then hobbled round some unfamiliar woods - the first 100yds was slightly downhill & my quads were not happy but after that I was jogging (9ish min/mile) relatively comfortably, til the path disappeared as it got too dark to make out the ground properly! Still 6K of recovery was more than enough - hamstring was really tight again after.
    Today I cycled to work & back - really cold on the way in but not a breath of wind in either direction so I fairly flew for relatively little effort. Followed the cycle back with a 2K swim then straight into a moonlit river run on a mix of tarmac & hard pack cyclepath. Plan was to take it steady, see how I felt & turn back at 2M if necessary. Felt good from the off so did the whole route (just over 7M) & as usual picked the pace up on the return leg finishing with a 7:02 mile then a final 300m at 6:25s. HR was about 2bpm higher than pre-marathon but other than that you wouldn't know I'd run 30M only 2 days previous & died a death to boot. Go figure!
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Good stuff Jooligan, amazing how you can rack up the races and still recover. 

    Joe - must give you bags of confidence that can bang out sub 3s for fun! You'll probably give your PB a good scare at this rate. 

    Thanks for all the tips macca, I need to get a bit of trail practice in as it's a whole different ball game to marathons. 

    Enjoyed seeing Dewi get lots of screen time at Frankfurt, at least until he pulled away from the german. He looked strong and it's incredible that he went through halfway only 2 mins off his HM PB. It made me wonder what us mortals should be aiming for, my best is still 5 mins off my PB but maybe I should be more ambitious. 
  • Very quiet on here in the last few days! 

    13.1 miles this morning @ 6.52mm. Steady pace is probably the quickest its ever been (I usually run to around the same HR/effort level), so there is some positive signs even if the short distance speed hasn't quite been there in the past few weeks.

    That was my only run of note this week, having an easier one in prep for a half marathon I'm going to race on Saturday. Then 2 weeks until Valencia. 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Joe: that's tight running after doing a sub-3 marathon at the weekend :D - I was going to say racing a Half 2 weeks before a marathon doesn't give much time for recovery but you seem to recover super fast anyway!

    I had club session on Monday night - the dreaded Avenue of Pain which is essentially a Kenyan hills type workout with about 8 miles of hills, some of which are really steep in places. Great workout and felt surprisingly good a week after the marathon. Just an easy run today and then my first RunCamp session on the track tomorrow at 6.30am - strength, technique and intervals!
  • AWC - it's weird, but I'm not thinking of last weekends run as a marathon as such, just another long training run (i.e 23 miles). For me, I really don't see the difference as long as you're not smashing yourself. It's just an arbitrary number really. I just ran to feel and made sure to keep the HR low throughout, concentrating on just getting a long aerboic workout. I know the time between is slightly tight, thinking of going at 90% effort depending on where abouts I find myself in the field..

    Sounds like a really good session, enjoy the RunCamp. 
  • We’re waiting for you to get Valencia done so we can start the 2018 thread Joe ;) Solid MLR, will be interesting to see how Valencia goes as you’re clearly in good shape. 

    Nice hills AWC.

    I met up with SQ this morning, was expecting him to want to just do a recovery run after Abbo, but instead we did hill reps! Just four but they were tough work on a hill that gets worse and worse as you go on. Think they might be my first ever hill reps, other than short sprints. Still not a fan of hills, but clearly they are very good for the legs. 
  • Joe, I agree that the its the intensity that takes it out of the legs, not the distance.  There is obviously the pounding, but if its on easy ground then I think long aerobic efforts are good and probably easier on the system than say a 13 mile marathon paced harder effort.

    I've had a strange illness for 2 weeks, not bad enough to stop me doing anything but not 100% either.  I've also been on my hols for a week and on a weeks course at work so quite a bit of disruption to training. I've trained through as best I could and done some good long 20 ish mile runs but overall mileage is down a bit. I did 13 miles steady (6.16 pace) straight into 3 miles at marathon pace yesterday which was a bit of an eye opener to running 5.40 when not fresh. Its a session I will build on though to get used to that pace when tired so that come April, it will hopefully feel a little easier.

  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Joe: I agree on the intensity - I was running trail marathons every weekend preparing for my ultra at very slow paces and there was no longer recovery time than when I was doing normal long runs.

    Philip: sounds like a great session. Hope the illness passes - hate it when one hangs around longer than it should.

    Spoons: hills are great for the legs - they make running on the flat feel a lot easier. I can't avoid hills where I live so I run them on an MLRs or LRs consistently. I think they are also very good for building strength and avoiding injury.
  • Well done on Snowdon Jools, that's pretty epic chucking a PR in for a warm up. I would have to agree on your use of the word 'addiction.' I'm another who has that on his to-do list.

    Joe - Don't give us that nonsense about it being just a long training run when you do exactly 26.2 miles  ;)
    Well done though, you're an endurance monster and I reckon you'd smash up the Ultra scene.

    Well done to everyone else for everything else, I've not had a proper catch up.

    I've not really done much in the way of training, one dodgy run last weekend but nothing this week. I'm waiting for motivation to return. I have noticed the extra time on my hands,  I even started reading a book and thought about getting my guitar fixed.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Busy busy at work here. First time in ages I've missed a lunch run because of work. 

    Joe - I'm with Reg, arbitrary number my arse, just like today's run just happened to be 13.1 miles. Sounds like it's coming together. Looking forward to seeing how you get on in a couple of weeks. 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    First RunCamp track session this morning - kettlebell lunges/kettlebell squats/single leg squats/single leg hopping/press-ups mixed up with laps of the track and 100m strides. My glutes are burning baby :)
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    I've not run since GSR and it's probably the longest I've not got a run in for a few years!! Anyway, got a couple of body pump (light weights/high reps) and body balance (yoga/flexibility) classes done. Body pump gave me the worse DOMS ever last week.....worse than after I've run a 50k!! Hopefully will help with leg strength and flexibility!

    Anyway, going to follow the P&D recovery plan for 5 weeks starting next week to ease myself back in before my P&L HM plan starts in December.....looking forward to getting stuck back in!!

    Joe - I agree with Reg, if you can run an easy 3 hour marathon, you would smash an ultra!!
  • Solid parkrun, Joe. Sounds like you more than made up for any disappointment with a cheeky sub 3 the next day. Good luck with the half.

    Hope the niggle is clearing up, Katie? I have found that politeness (measured purely by numbers of ‘thank you, marshal’ I hear) varies massively at each location. A culture that spreads, I suppose. I must admit that a majority of my volunteering has been as a pacer – definitely the most selfish of all the roles!

    Great effort at Snowdonia, Jooligan. Still can’t believe you did a 7km warm up. Actually, I can believe it! Macca I found the best way to prepare for the course (including the last hill) was the replicate it – 3 massive hills, but over the course of 20-22M. That said, I had to walk run the final beast when I did 3:04 last year. Pleased you enjoyed it, Jooligan, and yes, the final sprint down the high street is a great atmosphere. Best of luck with the glute work. Seriously considering signing up for next year. Traditionally it has been a midnight NYE/NYD sign up (lots of drunken clicking). But for anyone considering Snowdonia 2018, this year has moved to 1st December. First come, first served, and you have to be very quick to get in.

    Like the sound of the Avenue of Pain, AWC! Hope the RunCamps are treating you well. No doubt they’ll set you up nicely.

    Hope you feel better soon, Phil. I do a lot of running fasted, but do take some BCAAs (branched chain amino acids) prior to a particularly hard morning workout. It seemed to help with recovery for me.

    Cracking hill reps with spoons yesterday morning. Back in the summer, I was outpacing him at the track. This time, however, he was well ahead. Great running mate! It is clear that the track work, strides and short hill sprints have made such a difference for you. It has helped confirm my plans to follow the P&L 12 week half plan (60-80) to Wokingham and only worry about longer runs after that.

    Right, time to stop being a post marathon fat bastard. Guy Fawkes 5M on Sunday.

  • Thanks for the advice SQ. I do have some so I will try that, I did 9.5 this morning fasted and it took til 2pm to feel recovered. 
  • Snowdonia 18 entries open at 7am on 1/12/17. I'll be throwing my hat in again & this time I'll skip the parkrun warm-up ;)
    Lots of good hill training going down.
    Another double day today with 5K at lunch including 3x1K grass reps then 7.2M at 7:25s along the river this evening after a swim. HR is still about 2bpm higher than pre marathon but otherwise I seem to have recovered remarkably quickly. That's 37M in 5 days + 80M on the bike. Easier day tomorrow then XC on Saturday.
  • runspoonrunrunspoonrun ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017

    Get better soon Phil, those bugs that hang around like that are frustrating!

    Cheers SQ, I am indeed faster than back in the summer, but I also didn’t have a marathon in my legs like you did! Although it felt like it yesterday, those hills really made my legs ache. I’ll be running that hill again tomorrow, but very slowly on the way to a lovely flat track ;) 

    Taking it nice and easy after the marathon I see Jooligan!

    My HRM is still acting weird - yesterday it reckoned I was doing 200+ bpm while I was ambling along the canal at easy pace. I think it's the colder weather affecting the optical HRM.

    Good luck to SQ and anyone else racing on Sunday. I’m looking forward to catching the New York Marathon on Sunday afternoon. It’s on Eurosport, so won’t have to find a dodgy feed to watch for once!

  • Would really love to give some ultras a go to be honest, the longer the better as far as I'm concerned!

    Good luck Jools and SQ for your respective races this weekend. 

    Spoons - I'm looking forward to New York also, not sure if I'll get a chance to watch it though.

    Racing a half tomorrow (Thames Meander). Had a couple of easier days in preparation, but still feeling pretty sluggish. It's not the quickest course, with plenty of dog walkers and the like to dodge on the towpath, so it definitely won't be a PB, so will just go on feel and hope to get in a good race with some others. 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Joe: as someone above said you would tear up the ultra scene. You are an endurance monster and you recover so quickly so you are so suited for it. 

    Im planning on doing a lot more ultras but I think I’ll do them longer term and focus on faster marathon stuff while I’m still relatively young (37). 

  • Hi ya Wenty ?

    Hiya macca - good memory!!! I see you are more nuts then ever - nice report though...top effort - But still crazy
  • MaccatheknaccaMaccatheknacca ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    FBT - I'll take an ultra over 26.2 of Jerusalem's hottest hills any day ;) Hope you've got something in the diary ?

    Good luck with xc Jools and the Thames Meander Joe.  I'm not sure which I admire most, Jools 3 discipline post Snowdonia recovery day or Joe's sub 3 backed up with a half.

    Good work on the hills AWC, SQ and RSR.  

    Thats a fantastic time last year in Snowdonia SQ to get so near 3hrs.  I looked at this years results and only 25ish went sub 3.  Definitely one to add to the to do list.  Good luck with the Guy Fawkes 5.

    Not a lot to report here other than a few "make it up as I go along sessions" with half an eye on an impending woody 50 and a 45 miler in early Jan, which finishes in London (Country to Capital - in case it might be of interest  ;) ).

  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Seems we're all winding down now, time for some well earned rest. Good luck jooligan and Joe this weekend. 

    Trying a few different speed sessions to see what works for me. 10x2 min on/1 min off was tough, felt harder than even 12k of 1k on/1k off. Signedup for a 10k today but slept in and so went out to do a mona fartlek instead. 5.11k in 20 mins and much harder work than a parkrun at faster pace! Quite like these sessions with floats as they work my LT. 

    Anyone else racing in the next few weeks?
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