The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Have you been bombarding wth treatment dr dan? I have recently become a big fan of voltarol gel. I have had a few sore spots in the last 6 months, several times in the feet and some persistent treatment with the gel and ice and they seem to clear up quickly.

    My cold re-emerged in full force last night. I think it was teasing me before. Im now full flow. Explains for certain why I couldn't access the higher intensity yesterday.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Results from the physio filming me on the treadmill are in.  We used both of my current trainers to make sure it wasn't them causing me to change gait.

    One of the pairs of trainers definitely exacerbated the issues.  In general, I am getting extension by extending my lower back rather than using my hip, this seems to be causing me to land with a bent knee and collapse into the stride before pushing out of it.  One plus is that he doesn't think I overpronate (which is what I've been told previously) and could get away with more neutral shoes than my current supportive ones.

    He made me run at different tempos using a metronome and by raising my cadence by 8-10 from my natural rhythm it improved things.  Need to try running outdoors with a metronome now (can get apps on Android/iOS).


  • Sounds interesting JGav. Do you mind me asking how you found such a service (general physio, or someone more specialist) and how much such an analysis costs? I only ask because I have very little faith in physios generally when it comes to specific biomechanics (rather than generic movement).
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    AndrewD said:
    Sounds interesting JGav. Do you mind me asking how you found such a service (general physio, or someone more specialist) and how much such an analysis costs? I only ask because I have very little faith in physios generally when it comes to specific biomechanics (rather than generic movement).

    It's is the physio company (Six Physio) who come into my office.  I can access it through company health insurance so no cost to me.  My physio is a runner himself so takes an interest in it along with his formal training.  They have a centre on Fleet Street with a gym and massage etc. where they lead pilates classes and do specific work which you can't do with just a table.

    For reference, he's one of those weird runners who likes to put objects in his way to make it more interesting (steeplechaser) and has a 3k pb below 9m30.
  • Not been on here for a while, but important news first:

    Shoes: sportsshoes.com have some decent offers on being Black Friday week, and if you use the code QAC6 in the promotional code box (2nd page when you check out) you get a further 10% and free postage, courtesy of Great Run Local. 
    I ordered two new pairs on Monday and they came this morning: more or less half price!

    Following June's Achilles injury I am not
    quite back running yet, but not too far away. My week looks like this, or is planned to: 
    Saturday: 2-3k run slowly, with walk breaks, lots of stretches and strengthening (Pilates-ish with theraband), exercise bike, single leg calf raises/drops as slowly as they can be done (3 x 10 both bent and straight);

    Sunday: warm up on exercise bike, stretches as above, then single leg presses working towards 1.5 times bodyweight, holding each rep for 45 seconds (currently up to 1.25 times at 35 seconds!)

    Monday: repeat Saturday

    Tuesday: repeat Sunday

    Wednesday: anti-gravitational trainer

    Thurs: repeat Sunday

    Fri: free choice, but if running no further than 5k. 

    The only thing that I will comment on (too much to reply to) is JGav, to say that I am increasingly of the opinion that we underestimate the strength and form side of running. When I was in my 20s and running fairly well (14:48 5k, 8:44 3k, 9:23 steeplechase) I did weights, circuits and stretches pretty religiously. In fact it is hard to hurdle for most of us unless you do!




    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    12 x 220m session at lunch time, yes I know it's an odd distance, that's the loop in the park.   Total of 7km including the wu and wd. 

    Paced the first 11 at 3.30m/km and went all out on the final one for 3.02m/km 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Gone and booked in for the Castle Hever half ironman...eek!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hi Alehouse, glad to see you are making progress.

    I do a lot of the other stuff you mention these days, particularly the stretching stuff and core and body conditioning type work.

    9 miles with 7 at 'long tempo' over lunch. Came out 6.34mm for 165 bpm. Still don't think I am 100% but compare that to the same run last week which was 6.45 for 164 and even Tuesdays mornings 4 miles at 6.39 for 165, I'm clearly getting there.

    Sounds fun, JGav. Unfortunately I am an appalling swimmer so that whole line of events is a closed door to me.

  • Did a little 3k time trial this evening (I know it might seem a bit random to do these time trials, but I don’t race very often at all so I do like to mix training up a little by occasionally doing something different to a normal speed work session).

    Target was sub 12.30, based on recent 5k and 10k times, and came in at 12.23. 6.43m/m first mile then 6.36m/m pace for the last 0.86 mile. Felt good.

    Rest day tomorrow.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    I have no problem with the occasional 3k time trial AD! And that 3k was a great pointer to both progress and what you are capable of in a 5k: in a sense a race is easier as you have other people to feed off, as long as you get the first couple of ks right. There is no reason you can't be close to 21 minutes on the right course. And faster than that next summer.


    And talking of races, I took a risk yesterday at the Last Friday of the month in Hyde Park: I was there anyway as had booked train tickets months ago, was meeting up with friends, and had a number. Had planned to run around the 5k to test the Achilles, probably running in the 28 minute sort of area. Only ran 500 metres as a warm up: normally 2k plus, but hadn't run more than 5k since June 24th, plus the lack of warm up would see me go off steadily, I decided.

    Didn't look at my watch until close to the first k, which came up in 4:59: rather surprised as I had set off near the back and then there is quite a steep climb; km 2 was 4:49, k 3 included another rise and came out at 4:51, km 4 was 4:49 and then 4:37 for the last. Final time of 24:06. Didn't really feel the Achilles at all. Didn't run flat out but quite hard. Breathing awful! Didn't sprint when I could have, thinking of the Achilles. This morning legs feel a little battered but pleased to report no Achilles issues. 

    Not going back to proper running training just yet but will persevere with the strength building and stretching on top of two or three gentle short runs a week. Yesterday seems to have represented good progress until I look back at June when I jogged a parkrun in 21:24...and ran harder yesterday.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Yes Alehouse, I ran 21.44 a few weeks ago, so would hope to be closer to 21.30 now. Looking at sub21 again by the spring.

    You have made great progress from such a serious injury, and it must be at the back of your mind for the time being, so that 5k sounds pretty decent to me in the circumstances! You’ll be back in the 21s again before you know it!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Good time trialling, Andrew. That's a good indication of what you can do in 5k race conditions. 

    Well done, Alehouse. Frustrating as it is you need to view your times right now not where you were pre injury unfortunately.

    So this cold keeps giving! I've been streaming since Friday night, just as I thought it was actually going. It seems more like it was warming up. Anyway, nice comfortable 15 today, at 7.53 pace. As per my comments post brum Mara, I need to adapt my body to take on gels , so today I took an isogel at 8 miles. Really didn't want it and found it a very awkward process but if I'm to maximise my Mara potential I must force it. 

    Another pretty hefty training week this week to come (10k schedules leave no room for not feeling quite right) then next week I'm on holiday until midweek then I am running my first 10 miler of the year. Last year I did 7 distances and 7 pbs. This year I'm on 6/6 so far with 10 miles to get so slight amount of pressure. Last year's average pace was 6.20, so I think it'll be touch and go as that's pretty sharp in my mind. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Managed 4 miles yesterday at 4.45m/km and another 5 miles today at 5.15m/km.  Getting back some rhythm to my training.

    Also had my first sports massage yesterday.  Felt great at the time but sore in the evening.  Hamstrings are noticeable less tight today and quads feel a lot fresher.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    JGav, sports massages leave me sore for at least 36 hours, but then I wake up on day 2 feeling great. Definitely worth slotting in once a month or so if you have the time and spare money.

    I am still feeling slightly groggy, which is affecting my sleep more than anything. Was supposed to do a threshold session yesterday but didn't feel up to it. I did follow sundays 15 with an interval session on Monday so thought I might be pushing my luck in any event. Ended up doing a 5 mile recovery. Tonight is just gym classes then i'll do a running session tomorrow.

    Had my 'best for age' application for the Bath half mara accepted this week. Being over 40 and having a sub 85 time to your name does open doors having looked around at various events. The outcome for the Berlin marathon ballot will start landing tomorrow as well.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭

    DT19 said:

    JGav, sports massages leave me sore for at least 36 hours, but then I wake up on day 2 feeling great. Definitely worth slotting in once a month or so if you have the time and spare money.

    Yeah. feeling better now. Had a swim this morning which was good but I just couldn't get myself moving quickly so finished with an average of 2.10min/100m which is quite frankly, pants. It must be nice having a GFA time to get into the big races. I'm still young enough that it is stupidly hard (i.e. only just turned 30 so a VLM GFA time is 3.05!)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

      I don't do swimming so cant comment on your length pace unfortunately.

    You are also young enough to get away with more in training to get faster. But yes it is nice to have the times, its even nicer that I have the marathon GFA to qualify for vlm if I was 30 ;-)

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Planning an lunch tempo session, however legs are feeling tired after the weekend of back to back bike turbo sessions.  Will head out and see if the legs are working.  
  • Hope the legs respond for you Gav!

    I have had another week of easy running (18 miles of it in total) which has all come in between 8.30-9m/m pace and all felt pretty relaxed.

    Will keep the base training going until January then am planning to start a longer 10k training block in mid January.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    AndrewD said:

    Hope the legs respond for you Gav!

    I have had another week of easy running (18 miles of it in total) which has all come in between 8.30-9m/m pace and all felt pretty relaxed.

    Will keep the base training going until January then am planning to start a longer 10k training block in mid January.

    Off season is a good time to just enjoy it.  I generally have no plans right now, except for a group interval session on a Thursday.  Sounds like a decent winter week.

    Despite me feeling tired (daddy day care all weekend, limited sleep and lots of hard bike work) my legs came alive today.  Was running and felt relaxed and realised it was HM pace, so pushed it up a bit to 10k pace then a bit more.  4km at negative splits down to 4m/km.  Quick jog recovery then smashed out a final mile at 6.30.  Love days like this.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I'm out for the rest of 17 :-(  ... gave the foot 2 weeks rest but a 3 mile jog set it off again. Arch issues ... 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Dr.Dan said:
    I'm out for the rest of 17 :-(  ... gave the foot 2 weeks rest but a 3 mile jog set it off again. Arch issues ... 
    Rest well and enjoy the downtime.  Hope it heals soon.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Bad news, Dr Dan. Though not the worst time to have to have some downtime.

    Good running, jgav.

    I had a busy end to last week craming runs in. I did a session on Thursday on 2 x 2 miles at short tempo pace so about 6.10-6.15.I destroyed myself trying to hold pace into a headwind for most of mile 1 that I only managed 2 x 2 and 1 x 1. Splits came out 6.08, 6.19 and then 5.55 for the single mile. 

    Then Friday I did 5 miles at long tempo which is 6.35-6.40. That was a very pleasant run and came out 6.29 average and below target HR. Saturday I then did an easy 17. 

    Felt surprisingly fresh for all 3 runs. Been in Lapland since Saturday so no running as full days and it -20 plus. Just at airport now awaiting flight. 
  • Hope you enjoyed the downtime when you were away DT. Your body will probably have appreciated it!

    Bad luck with the injury Dan. Hopefully a good rest (and rehab?) over the next few weeks will see you sorted.

    Continued base training here, with the occasional faster session just to keep the legs ticking over. After doing a 3k time trial a couple of weeks ago, I did a 2k one last night.

    After a 2 mile warm up, I set out on my usual 2k course with the aim of just beating the time I did back in June (7.53), but secretly hoping to get close to 7.45. Went through a mile in 6.15 (which, incidentally is faster than I did a one mile time trial a month ago) and stopped the watch bang on 7.45.

    Shows quite some improvement through the year (8.17 back in April, to 7.45 now) and gives me a nagging thought at the back of my mind that if I did a parkrun before the year is out that I might stand a small chance of a pb.  Calculators predict 20.28 off the back of this 2k time, so even allowing for that being a bit over optimistic I must have a chance of beating pb of 20.42? Might try and squeeze one in!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, looks like some decent improvement. I would get a parkrun in. You never know when life or injury will creep in to affect things so best to capitalise!

    Nothing major since I ve been back, just a recovery effort 7 and 7 milers. Will do same today with strides in anticipation of sundays 10 mile race, which is currently looking likely to fall victim to the weather given what has happened today already and what is forecast sunday morning.

  • DT - you're right. Am eyeing up 30/12 at the moment.

    No running since Friday due to a combination of factors, but had got 16 miles in up to and including Friday night, so not too bad for the week.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Quiet few days for me. Race sunday was called off due to snow. Luckily it was called off Friday night so I did a 16 miler Saturday and then a lovely 10k in the snow sunday. This was followed by a dangerous 4 miles Monday evening.

    Not run since and feeling low on motivation. Come down with another cold at the start of the week which isn't helping. Will try and get out over lunchtime now much of the ice has cleared.


  • DT - I know how you feel re. lack of motivation. I still haven't run since last Friday (daughter sleeping poorly with yet another cold is not helping), but I am hoping to get out a few times over the next few days and still get close to 20 miles for the week.

    Think I might get out for a 1 mile time trial either today or tomorrow, just to get a short, sharp burst of running into the week! Aiming to beat 6.15 (which is what I passed a mile in during last week's 2k time trial) but don't think I will get close to my 1 mile pb of 6.06.

  • 5 easy paced miles for me early evening. Bit chilly but fine under foot.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    8 miles over lunchtime. Quite pleased that top end recovery/ bottom end easy hr/effort came out sub 8mm.

    planned to do bodypump at 6 but traffic home was poor so missed it. Went out for a 4 miler at very easy.
  • 6:04, a 2 second pb. Interesting ..... 
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