Shades Marathon Training



  • Shades - no race targets right now, just want to enjoy my running and do some different races in 2018. It’s weird looking back, I spent the 1st 16 weeks of 2018 following a marathon plan, doing lots of miles, but no PB. And then the last 12 weeks, no plan, fewer miles, an injury but a few PBs!

    Wishing all Shades a very Happy Christmas and a New Year without injuries!
  • Happy Christmas Shadies have a lovely day. X 
    SK - maybe you're just enjoying your running more without the pressure of running in the championship at London and that can often lead to great results and PB's.

    Hope everyone has a lovely Xmas.   I've just run 8 miles so an extra roast spud or two for me I think :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Shades, I just did 8-miles too, including Xmas Day parkrun, which was very well attended.  Probably around 200 or so, with a decent turnout of Trotters as well.

    I hope all Shadies have a good day!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    There were 189 at the parkrun yesterday, which is a decent turnout for that event.

    I had a good day, although ate too much!  Quite relaxed, although went around some friends last night for a few beers (and more food) so a bit dehydrated this morning!  It's probably going to be the same again tonight as we're going to see a band at a local pub...

    Did anyone get any running related gifts?
    Big G - that's a good turnout for Xmas at parkrun.   Great idea having a parkrun on then so folk start to realise that exercise is fun and should be part of our daily lives.   

    Lots of folk (more non runners) ask me if I run on Xmas Day and then are surprised when I say yes, why wouldn't I.

    Liverpool is a good choice for your WAY trip, lots to do there and whenever I've been in Liverpool I've found folk very kind and friendly.   So that will be your pre DD marathon, good choice.

    I ate a lot yesterday too.

    No, didn't get any running related presents but think I'll treat myself today to those Guide 9's at £50 before they sell out.

    Very cold this morning, but no ice, lovely running when there's so little traffic.  Saw lots of pheasants, very fat squirrels, a couple of rabbits and had a friendly encounter with a Dalmatian. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    No running for me yesterday,was hoping to fit one in but just couldn't get the time.
    Got a new pair of guide 10"s yesterday  :) so will save them for a while,also a medal hanger and a running lot book so really happy with them,going to look round today as I'm still after a nice jacket.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, Liverpool will be my final marathon before DD.   The only problem is, in terms of prep for DD, is that it's not hilly.  But I'm looking forward to it.  I was having a look at options of getting there and and there wasn't a lot of difference between train and flying, so I'm flying Exeter-Manchester and then catching train in to Liverpool, which is a short journey.  A bit extravagant maybe, but it'll save a lot of time compared to the train and it wasn't that much more in the big scheme of things, and I'll have more time to have a look around.  All booked, so I think I have all my events sorted for between now and DD.  There aren't really any hilly ones in my list though, except LDWA's Devonshire Dumpling, so I need to make sure I get out on the hills in training!

    Yes, it was good to see people at the parkrun.  Many were dressed up and it was a nice atmosphere, and I tried to say "thanks" to all the volunteers that were out there too as obviously without them it wouldn't have been on.  Our two fast Trotters were first and second....  I didn't "race" it but the parkrun bit of my run ended up being a bit of a tempo run, and it felt quite good to stretch the legs a bit.
    Ian - you've done well with the running presents.   Lots of sales on today for running stuff, so you should be able to find a good jacket.    

    I've had a stack of emails re the sales and I haven't yet finalised my 2018 budget so I need to be disciplined with my credit card. :| 

    Big G - that's the only problem with Liverpool is that it's a fair drive.   One year when I took my car over to the IOM on the ferry from Liverpool on the return trip it took me nearly 8 hours to drive home from Liverpool due to delays on the M6.  Pity we can't get flights to Liverpool from here.

    Can't be helped about not finding a hilly marathon to do, there just isn't the choice at that time of year.   Even if you didn't get as much hilly training in as you'd like you'd still be fine at DD, look how well you ran at the Cornish.   Liverpool might be warmish so that will be good training. 

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-it's one direct train from Manchester airport into Liverpool,takes about an hour or so I think,just as easy as liverpool airport as there you need a buslink to the train station or a bus into liverpool so youre not losing much time by going into manchester.
    Shoes ordered and a pair of tights :/  now putting credit card away :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah I did consider driving, but with the diesel and parking costs, again flying was in the same ballpark price wise.  Flying means I can spend a lot of Monday in the city too as the flight back is late afternoon.  My preference would have been to catch the train and although the train tickets aren't yet out for May, if I look to March they were pretty much the same price as flying, but the trains takes a lot more time.

    I'm avoiding the sales as I've gone through a bit of cash the last few days!  I could do with some more running shoes, but I'm holding out to see if anything happens with this Asics promotion, where I may get some gear.  It's all gone a bit quiet, so I need to give him a nudge!
  • Morning Shadies- hope you all had a good day yesterday. Intended to go for a run today to burn off all that food I ate yesterday however woke up to quite a lot of snow fall. Think it caught the council by surprise as the paths were not suitable for running so I am a little disappointed about not getting a run.

    No running related gifts for me, did get a couple of gift cards for run4it so a journey to the local shop for me is in order plus I get 20% discount through my work at run4it so hopefully I can get something decent. I am wanting a new Garmin watch so I am on the look out.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Planned an easy day today but problems with works alarm meant I was up at 4.30 and travelling to sort it out.Just came back from a 12 mile run which turned into 13.1 so happy with that as it felt pretty easy considering I did 20 on Sunday,bit hillier than usual but all in all a good effort.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Big G most of my planned marathons are flat but I've decided that I'm planning every long run to be hilly, and different one each time. 
    Big G - I expect you'll not hear about your Asics stuff for a while yet, I suspect they have a long break over the hols.   You can always put a price watch up for your favourite shoes, after all you must be ramping up the miles on your marathon shoes now.

    steven - so you ended up with a white Christmas after all, I don't think they bother to grit over bank holidays, saves the council a lot of cash

    You should be able to get a good deal on a Garmin, have fun shopping :) 

    Ian - bad luck being on call for the alarm, hope it was not a break in.

    Jelly - that's a good strategy for your DD training, not like we're short of hills around here. ;)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steven-Unlucky on the snow stopping your run.
    Shades-No it wasn't,the chillers had stopped dialling out so couldn't be monitored so I had to wait for an engineer,just what I needed today  :'(
  • Happy Christmas, everyone! I'm still in Manchester but my friend has to work tonight so I'm on my own with all the food...eek!
    Ian - urgh, not what you need!
    Big G - I'm happy you're doing Liverpool. If I'm not injured, I'll be there too so say hello if you spot me. As for the course, it's not a flat one. Maybe not DD-tough, though. There's a short but quite steep hill around mile 6, then a long downhill section (where I went too fast this year...) and then a long slow drag up around mile 12 (which more or less finished me off, because I started too quickly, silly me). A few more undulations after that but the very last bit is flat along the river.

    I managed to do a parkrun (South Manchester) yesterday while my friend slept. It was about a two and a half mile walk away so not too far, and fortunately it was very mild. Quite a big turnout (over 300, but I think it was the only parkrun open in Manchester for Christmas) and there were some fast people there. The first guy was under 16 minutes. I ran it in 28:59 which is quicker than my run at Tooting two days before. Jogged part of the way back too. I covered over 9 miles according to my watch, so I think I earned Christmas dinner. :grin:
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, yeah, I'll look out for you.  A couple of my Trotter mates are doing it too, but I think they're dressing up, which I won't be!  Nice Xmas day run there by you - under 16mins is very quick for that chap!

    Jelly, are you planning on doing part of the DD route itself on training runs?  If I get the chance, I may do that as I don't actually know the whole route, so it'll be good to see it in person before the race if I can.

    Dreadful weather here yesterday with heavy rain, so I'm afraid I dodged a run.  I'm hoping to get out a bit later today, although it feels very cold out at the moment.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    I've driven the route a couple of times, which I think might be helpful. Wasn't planning running sections of route but will run on the moors if I get company. A Couple who just got married and have completed DD many times. Lady says don't run route as if you have bad training run on a section it will be in your head on the day and you wouldn't Recce run a big city event you would just do it on the day, gentleman says run it as you'll train on the hills you've got to do.  Think both have vaild points.  Marathon Queen has set up Facebook group for us DD ladies so will be guided by the experienced ones. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly, I don't usually mind recceing a route - I did it for City to Sea and it was okay on the day.  I also always look for activities on Strava for races I haven't done before (to check out the elevation profile) as I think I prefer to know what horror I'm about to face, rather than it being a surprise on the day ;)  I think the couple you're on about are the same couple I'm on about who are also doing Liverpool marathon ;)  I spoke to them about logistics of getting to Liverpool.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    That's right, I respect both runners. I was going to Recce end C2S but never got round to it, would it affected my motivation knowing what was coming I'm not sure. On double lap stuff I'm very much right you've got that and that now get a grip and get it done. So don't think recce would affect me. Who knows don't think it's as cut and dry as that. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly, yeah, I agree - we'll probably have bad patches at the DD, regardless of if we know the route or not.  I think one thing I've learned is that bad patches don't last forever, so just get through it and it'll get better.  But also, I unfortunately know that good patches don't last forever either ;)  

    I drove most of the first 13 miles (in reverse) on Xmas Eve as I went for a walk along the river nearby and then went on to a pub for lunch (Warren House Inn).  For some reason, I think of the first 13 miles as relatively okay, but even that was really hilly, even in a car!
    edited December 2017
    Ian - oh no, hope the engineer didn't keep you waiting too long.

    Cal - hope you had a good feed while your friend was at work.   Quite a trek to your parkrun, you certainly earned your lunch.

    Jelly - I would agree that there's nothing to be gained by running any parts of the DD route before the race.   Part of DD's charm is being faced with the challenges that the various parts of the route bring.  Being familiar with it won't make you run those sections any better and I think can have a detrimental affect mentally.  I think it spoils a race having practised over the course. And an absolute NO is to running the last 5 miles in training, in the race you'll be tired and if you remember having run it before on fresher legs that will demoralise you and make you feel a lot worse.   There are plenty of routes over the roads of Dartmoor to do and still get some decent hill work in.

    Big G - how hilly is Liverpool marathon?

    Bitterly cold wind here but we've escaped the snow.  Had a good run and was well wrapped up against the wind.   Saw my kingfisher again in exactly the same spot as I did a few weeks ago, beautiful :)
    Big G - I think we have to be grateful that we don't run the first 13 miles of DD in the other direction :'(
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, Liverpool Marathon seems to be about 1000ft of ascent, so not too bad really.

    I just had a look on Strava and people's Garmins seem to range from 800ft to 1300ft, so I'm really not sure how accurate those figures are - usually there's not such a wide range for other races!  It seems most of the hilly bits are in the first half though, which suits me too.

    Big G - that seems OK, so about 38 foot per mile so not too bad.   Wonder why folk have such a discrepancy with elevation on their Garmins, were some doing the half?  But there was another Liverpool marathon before the Rock and Roll one, could it be that is why they are different.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I searched for activities of 26 miles and over, and also searched for "Rock" in the title, as people had named their event "Liverpool Rock & Roll Marathon".  The handful I checked were all on the same day, so I think it's all the same event.

    I think some (most?) devices use mapping data for the elevation so they don't record real/live elevation changes, whereas other devices do have an altimeter/barometer (Garmin Fenix, for example), so would probably be more accurate?  I don't know if there are tunnels in the Liverpool marathon, but if the device loses signal, that will have an impact too.  I know when I checked London though, most elevations seemed to be pretty close to each other, so not sure why it's so much of a difference this time.  I clicked on a few for Liverpool to see if they had the same watch as me, as I'd have used that as the guide, but for the few I checked they had a range of watches.

    I have seen it on other Strava activities where the elevation trace jumps several hundred feet (on a stretch of road where it's flat) but the trace stayed around that level for the rest of the run and didn't go back to normal.  To be honest, I don't really know how Strava works elevation out - if Strava uses its own mapping data (rather than relying on any mapping data from the device/manufacturer), you'd have thought most activities on the same route would be broadly the same.  Probably how they work it out is a FAQ on Strava somewhere but I haven't checked!

    But anyway, although not pancake flat, it's not especially hilly.

    It can all be fiddled though.  Someone generated a Strava file for a sub-2hr London Marathon, and there was no device that ever went around the course to generate that data.  He built the data using scripts, just to show it could be done.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    For devices without an altimeter, Strava uses its own data to work out the elevations.  If it doesn't have its own data for a section, it uses data from a public database.  This doesn't explain the discrepancies though!

    And a bit more about it here, where it implies that the GPS inconsistencies between devices could cause the elevation discrepancies:

    edited December 2017
    Big G - very odd and something the boffins will have to sort out.

    Had a similar conversation recently re the climb for Connemara Ultra as there's an error on their website re the elevation for the route.   They've plotted the course on mapmyrun and the elevation is wrong on that as it's showing less climb than the half marathon and less than the marathon when in fact you run 13.1 miles then pick up the marathon route and the last 13.1 miles is the half marathon route, so we know the website data is flawed.   So I asked others that have run it for their data and for that route Strava measures significantly less climb than the runners Garmin data.   Whether it's because the race is run over lonely moorland roads and I would suspect poor/no mobile signal in some parts so maybe what mapping data is available to Strava is limited, I don't know.   Anyway the consensus was after all this that the climb is 1600 feet and a lot of that is in two category 5 climbs in the last 13.1 miles, both Dartmooresque type hills.

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