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1. Over 1100 feet of climbing which caught Every one by surprise as the organisers had made out it was flat to undulating.
2. An 8.30 start. I'm not an early morning runner.
3. A very light field up top. I came 107th and was largy alone from 18. A stark contrast to London.
4. I worked myself into a mess in the days building up and on the day could take on board nothing other than a few gulps of lucazade sport.
5. I got in with a group that were pacing 6.45 and through miles 10-13 we averaged sub 6.40 which came back to haunt me.
Nicko- I suffered with lots of injury issues a few years ago so changed my running to follow the Furman first schedule running 3 times a week. I ran London in 2016 with an average mileage of 27 per week, in 3.08. My half in the March was 1.25. A reasonable return on training but clearly not a great conversion.
Subsequently for Birmingham in Autumn I averaged about 40 per week.
Furman plan looks very similar to the Bridger one, but with some more variety on the speed work which is good.
A friend of mine ran the Bham half and said it was a nightmare too; especially with the full mara starting early so the faster half marathon runners starting later ended up having to weave through the back end of the marathon guys.
Personally, I prefer a more conventional plan. Two things: 1) an easy run can actually be better for recovery than no run at all and 2) why go to the effort of running for 2 hours to build up some tiredness before 6@MP when you can do a run one day to tire the legs and then a run the following day on those tired legs?
OO - Don't talk me to me about the gale force wind. We've had it for weeks and weeks. Funnily enough, Sat am when we flew was a perfect still morning and I heard parkrun conditions were ideal. Typical eh. Good mileage. Is that because you can't transfer with someone who cannot run now?
Jools - Sounds like you might be ok in a few weeks. A bad sprain can't usually take any weight for a month or so. Well that's my experience but I tore my ligaments badly in my ankle years ago, would have been quicker to heal had I broken the damn thing. No lasting damage, thank goodness.
Birch - Good news re the hamstring and a nice run with your pal.
Gul - Get well soon! I'm just feeling ok now after 3 weeks. My lungs were not 100% for Sat's XC but I think that was the cold temps too. It was much colder than we normally get here.
Welcome to Nicko and DT19. Stick around, it's nice here and tends to get very interesting in the build up to London.
I rested yesterday after Saturday's XC and headed out on lunch to attempt a speed session. As soon as I left I regretted not having gloves, the wind had a real bite today. Anyway I stuck to the task and did 5 x 1k reps off 90 seconds recovery. They went. Not too bad after Sat's mud fest but was hoping for quicker.
Jools - sounds nasty but at least you can walk without too much pain.
Birch - steady progress and looking promising.
OO - good going in gale force winds.
GM - great interval session.
Back on the road today. Did some more core strength work followed by 6 easy miles.
Gul - I'm glad you are back on the road.
It's my birthday soon so I thought I'd treat myself and enter Parliament Hill XC. Flights booked etc. I guess I will see some of you there after all.
Nicko- I've not spoken with anyone as yet that said they would do it again! Plenty for the organisers to work on.
My progression from First schedule has been as follows-
London 2016- Followed to the letter but added in a weekly 5 mile recovery.
London 2017- Increased the 5 to 10 miles and reduced the long run pace to higher end of easy.
Birmingham 2017- Kept the 10 and pushed it out often to 12 and added in 3 mile recovery and completely ignored long run paces. Essentially I was simply lifting from the plan the 2 quality sessions.
I found that I couldn't hit the long paces once I added in the 10 miler.
Gerard- Looks like a decent session (though I am still trying to familiarise myself with who is capable of what). This will be my first xc in in 5 years where i've not got to at least 1.
Has anyone run the Amsterdam marathon? Looking at it as an option this year.
Nicko - the Bridger plan looks to be an interesting one, although I'd be careful about mixing it with another plan. They seem pretty clear that it's 3 runs max to avoid stressing your body too much. I enjoy running too much to restrict myself to only 3 sessions a week, hence following Pfitzinger & Douglas as much as I can.
Gul - good to hear that you're back on the road.
GM - sounds like you had a fun time at the XC and great news that you'll be at Parliament Hill next month. Perfect birthday present to yourself! Will have to sort logistics out for a thread catch up at some point in proceedings.
10 miles so far today in 2 commuting stretches sandwiching the train journey. The second leg took me up the Mall (where I imagined crossing the line with 2:59:59 on the clock - I've got a very optimistic imagination!) and then up to Trafalgar Square where I resisted the temptation to nip into Chandos and set up a tab for April.
6.5 miles yesterday morning including some uphill sprints which were hard work but I felt pretty good when I got home.
Welcome to the thread newbies. Looking forward to nicking some of your ideas.
Nice and busy on here, must be spring marathon campaign time.
Last few days for me have been 15 miles in the swamps on Saturday, 5 miles recovery on Sunday and last night was a 7 miler with a hill reps session in the middle.
Most surprising was how fresh my legs felt after the weekend running when they felt trashed. The 5 miler on Sunday (7.27 pace) shook out the legs and set me up nicely for the hill session. Didn't go too hard as the hip/groin needs looking after but even that was better last night.
Meeting a mate straight after work tonight for what will be our regular Tuesday 10 miler. Did this regular run in the last 2 campaigns, works a treat. Must be sub 75 and will get quicker as the campaign progresses.
Right, time to see about this Parliament Hill thing. Sounds like a thread gathering opportunity...
Just did a bit of treadmill work (it's a bit rough outside and I like to use treadmill a bit to gauge speeds at start of training).
1% incline; just over 7 miles.
2mi slow warm up followed by 5 x 800s at sub 6:00 pace with 2min jog recoveries.
Felt pretty solid, had energy at the end for a couple of miles at 7:30 and a few minutes of target MP at the end.
Gives me a small bit of confidence. Probably recovery tomorrow and tempo Thursday which will give me a proper measure of current fitness (managed 3 mile MP tempo on the treadmill on Saturday but I'm not counting that).
So, as an example, do 800m in 3 minutes (6 minutes per mile) and then the next 400m in 3 minutes and repeat 10x and you are a 3-hour marathon man! For me, this over predicts my marathon time by a massive margin. When I did 2:50 I also ran sub-hour for 10 miles so could do 10 miles at 6 mile pace with no break.
On Yassos, I'm sure I heard a slightly different interpretation, specifically if you can't do the 10x800m reps in X minutes each, then it's very unlikely you'll be able to run a marathon in X hours.
A subtle but important difference from saying that if you can do them in X mins, then you will be able to complete the marathon in X hours.
Think I better get my running gear on again and head out into the fresh air!
I have looked at the bridge runner plan a good few times , its looks very tough and it warns against adding anymore in as you will need all the recovery you can get !
Yasso 800's are the icing on a well bake cake ,I could run that sessions years before I even thought about sub 3 and to be fair he does say you need be be in sub 19 min 5k shape to start this plan which is 6:07 a mile pace .
On the sub 3 forum a 1:21 half gets mentioned now and again ,1:23 being the absolute minimum to have any chance unless its a particularly easy course.
PMJ sub hr 10 miler, impressive stuff indeed.
After 4 consecutive days, I'll rest tomorrow in readiness for a short tempo session on Thursday.
Pleased to get tonight done. With the hill session yesterday and 10 tonight I feel I'm in campaign proper now.
Lorenzo - A meet up at PH would be brilliant. Let's organise things properly closer to the time. My one and only race in the UK in Manc was a miss as far as meeting the theadsters from here is concerned. I recall Poacher and KR were there that day. Poacher probably passed me around mile 20 something as I was weaving all over the place in a heap.
DT19 - The sesh was ok, I guess I was a little fatigued from the XC. I'm nowhere near the quickest on here and all my marathons have been poor to date but I'm hoping to break 18 for 5k. My pb sits at 18:36 and ran 18:41 recently, so a big jump needed but I'm confident I can get my time down by a good bit in the coming months. I did Amsterdam last year. I would highly recommend it and would defo do it again. Shout if you have any questions.
G-Dawg - That's a solid effort mate and you're still recovering from the lurgy, so well in lad.
Leslie - Are you back running?
So I committed to doing the nationals XC at the iconic Parliament hill in Feb. It will probably be my one and only time so I thought I may as well, seen as I bought myself some spikes recently and didn't embarrass myself at Eastleigh on Saturday. One of our top guys (at Eastleigh) who has a 32 10k, 2;31 marathon was 5 mins ahead of me over 11.5k, so not a total disgrace. Had that been a road race it would have been a few minutes more. Hotel is booked as well and I'm staying near Tower Bridge.
I seemed to time the weather badly tonight. It was ok earlier but when I set off tonight the wind got up again and it was pouring with rain. Anyhow, 7.5 miles @ 7:24mm, a progressive run of sorts but the last mile into the headwind put the kybosh on all negative splits.
Gdawg little rest will do you good.
Gerard having a bad bit of weather , i thought it was always nice over there !Nice progressive run , unfortunately I haven't made a start again yet
Sending get well wishes to Jools, DT (sub-3 looks within reach too), Gul.
Running well Gerard but don't overdo things. Training is comprised of stressing the body + refueling/rehydrating/resting/sleeping and you don't want to do too much of the stress bit only. Glad you enjoyed the xc.
Speaking of xc I'm not sure I will make it to Parliament Hill as I am taking my rehab slowly. Ankle improving but I am not yet back to running. I see the physio at the end of the week so will see what he thinks. For now I am doing plenty of proprioception and stability work to re-educate the soft tissue as ankle ligaments are notoriously stupid for forgetting this when injured. If I can toe the line at the spring half it'll be a good outcome but I am not wedded to that idea either.
Good to see OO and Birch clocking miles already for 2018. Leslie - what's up? Good stuff from Lorenzo who I was able to bump into at the weekend watching the xc at Denbies. My team won gold without me so I guess I am not really needed.
Speaking of training this caught my eye. Kawauhi is perhaps the best icon to look to for training tips given he is a runner with a full time job. He says some very wise things which resonate very much. Especially the uber long runs in the context of a full week. I know if I can bang out long ones and still maintain pace for shorter quality sessions, my legs are good for a fast marathon.
https://deadspin.com/yuki-kawauchi-can-teach-you-how-to-run-1821725233
DT19 - yes, no need to worry too much about the general pace of long runs while you're doing the quality sessions too.
Lorenzo - good commute runs and hill sprints (real hills too no doubt!)
GD - that weekly 10 miler sounds like a great session.
Nick - good to get some MP under the belt; confidence booster as you say.
Leslie - hope you're ready and raring to go soon.
MsE - will check out yuki when I get a few minutes, thanks!
A bit late up today, so skipped the core strength work. Groin/hamstrings aching a bit when running, so might have been as well to miss the exercises anyway! Did 6 x 3mins / 90 seconds plus warm-up/down (7 miles total). My watch only does intervals by time rather than distance. The other annoying thing which I had forgotten until I checked afterwards is that it still only gives you mile splits (or whatever you've set the lap distance to). The splits after the warm-up were 6:59, 6:35, 6:52 and 6:36 - obviously the 2nd and 4th had a higher ratio of fast to slow bits! Sweating like crazy afterwards, so I don't think the lurgy has gone completely yet. Either that or I have become a blubbering tub of lard after Christmas and 10 days rest!
A friend of mine with a 1.24 half did Yorkshire in the Autumn in 3.00.25 (or thereabouts). Also if you read the runners world magazine, Paul Tomkinson did sub 3 in London off a 1.25. Some people have an amazing conversion rate. One of the posters on the overdone it thread has run 2.53 off a 1.23 half (probably the same person Gerard refers too). I've worked on the basis of half x 2 plus 13 so essentially 30 seconds a mile slower than half pace.
Gerard, we must be fairly similar levels. My last parkrun was a pb of 18.24 in August. Had I got to one at the end of November/early December I think I'd have beaten it. I've targeted sub 18 for 5k and sub 38 for 10k this year as well as the on-going battle with a sub 3 mara. I ran 38.18 (which was a pb) early November so hoping another decent block of training will get me there.
For now I will continue with spin sessions until this leg sorts itself out. Bit of a blow to the training plan but being pragmatic, i've only missed 1 days running so far so it isn't a disaster. Some more physio booked for Friday to try and push it along. I guess I wont be doing my 10 mile race this Sunday.
GM will be great to see you at Parliament Hill. Should be an experience although I hate XC. You are right it takes all sorts on the 1/2 to Mara conversion. I ran 1:22 at York last year but only 3:02 at VLM a few months later. This has always been the case for me, I'm just better at the shorter stuff and a bit undisciplined in my mara training.
DT19- I think you are saying you struggle with faster pace on the longer training runs, especially on tired legs. I do have the same issue. Really struggle to get below 8m/m on my long Sunday runs. Could only manage 9 last week.
Lorenzo we can all dream, I have the same one, but will probably be in Chandos drowning my sorrows again.
I had a club GP last night. Managed 6:02 avg. pace over the 3.3 mile course. 6 mins is always my benchmark so was a bit disappointed. Not sure what I can deliver at the York Half on Sunday, probably around 1:23:XX. This might be good enough for the V55 prize but sadly the organisers stopped number exchanges a month before the race so I'll be running under another guys number. Very annoying but I'm determined to run anyway.
MsE - I love that guy, been following him for years. Did you see his recent 2:20 marathon in sub zero conditions? Don't worry I will get the rest and recovery in. Today will be a super plod. Shame you won't be at PH, was looking forward to meeting you.
Gul - It took me ages to feel right after that bout so I wouldn't worry too much.
Leslie - It has been a horrible winter so far, never experienced such prolonged windy spells. I mean we had gale force wind for almost a week with one or two days respite followed by another week of it and so on. I hope your mojo returns soon.
Saw my remedial sports massage therapist yesterday. Only walking permitted by way of weight bearing exercise at the moment, to be reviewed next week (there's still swelling and heat in the ankle joint, and it does get tired towards the end of a work day). Stuck with swimming and strength/conditioning in the meantime.
My conversion last year was a 1:20 HM to 2:48 Marathon and a 18 min 5k. One important factor for a good conversion is doing high mileage for the marathon.
MSE good info there and probably guilty of most of them ! Not much up here just a bit too well fed at 81.5kg at the minute ! Hammy still hasn't improved as much as id have liked after 3 months but it might just be scar tissue now so need to make an easy start soon.
Jools I think people who only race mara's and mara pace the halfs do tend to make time conversions look more impressive than is realistic. 1:25 is 6:30 m/mile and 3hrs you would need to be running around 6:45 to allow for an overlong course etc over twice the distance ,it just too narrow a pace gap (imo). Sounds like you are on the mend anyway .
Re-live the madness!!
The Woking goal scored by Kane Ferdinand won goal of the week in the Non-League Paper.
Woking v Maidstone highlights...