Sub 3h15

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the link/comments etc :)  

    Badbark - that's really encouraging!  Common thinking is that the more you do, the slower you may get (at least that's the thought in my club, anyway), but that's obviously not the case for you, and also not for me to a certain extent, where my 18th marathon last year was a PB.  I also PB'd at every distance last year too, except the Half which I didn't race.  I don't race all my marathons and occasionally when I do target one I don't have a good race for whatever reason, but then a couple of weeks later I may do well.  I surprised myself last year with how quick I was recovering, but the mileage in the week did slip.  I think that's one thing I need to change (if not too tired) in order to get quicker; I do think I may have a 3:15 in me at some point, but I think I need more weekly mileage.   Another thing I'm doing is reducing the alcohol intake, which I think will help with training and also recovery.  I've found that as I've done more events, I am not scared of the distance anymore - I respect it, of course, but I'm not scared of it.   And I enjoy visiting new places and maybe making a weekend out of the event.  Well done to you on some great times, and well done on the race win too.

    One specific question - other than the marathons, is the majority of your training at an easy pace?  You mention doing 8x10secs uphill sprints, but is the rest quite easy?  Generally speaking, mine is easy paced, although I occasionally race a parkrun and also occasionally do something like 12x45sec efforts, but the majority is easy for me, which seems to help with the injuries.  If I'm too tired, I just avoid those sessions and again do an easy session instead.  I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't follow any plan as such, but have a general thought that any mileage is easy (I'm talking 9:30s - my MP is 8).  Back in July I was doing more running and more sessions as I just felt I was able to, as I did no marathons that month.  Would you change anything there, or is it a case of just doing what is right for you personally?  
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    This was from the Brass Monkey 1/2 in York today. A bit breezy but pretty much on target with 1:23:11
    52 miles for the week.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    great work, OO - nice pic too - always good to avoid the "one foot planted" scenario !  

    just in from 4 easy, to complete a satisfying 50 mile week  . . . . .    
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Well done OO. On track for a good London with a fast half this early in the build up!

    45 min swim for me. Cankle is reducing in size so plan to try some easy cycling/cross trainer mid week.
  • MsE - I think Yuki is great; sounds like he's got just the right attitude. I know his approach often brings him into conflict situations with the running authorities in Japan but to me he's something of an inspiration. Love the ways the guys on Marathon Talk talk about "zipping up your Yuki suit"

    Birch - hope you can also make it to Parliament Hill. I'll be there early as younger Lorenzito is also running in the U17s race - what race will your lad be in?

    Welcome to Big G - doesn't surprise me that Madbark leapt in with a response to your question on multiple marathons; just bear in mind that there are varying interpretations of multiple!!

    Welcome to MrSoft - in my opinion a 1:35 half isn't quite enough to get to a sub 3:15, but if you're close to a 40 min 10K I would have thought that you could get down to a 1:31/1:32 half so it may be a question of building in some longer tempo runs and getting up to 7-9 miles at sub 7 min/mile pace. Not sure which part of the country you're in but have you got any 10 mile races near you? MP miles at the end of long runs are a great idea; just make sure that you do the first 15 miles nice and slow (8-8:30 pace) and then kick in some 7:15 miles for the last 5.

    Nice OO55(!) - 1:23.xx in breezy conditions shows you're in good shape.

    Weight check - I'm just under 6ft tall and hover around the 70kg / 11stone mark. By PMJ's reckoning I've got about a stone to lose! :/

    Decent week's worth of running for me, rounded off by 5 miles XC in the Surrey League race yesterday in which I finished as 10th (and final) scorer for the club although I suspect that there's too much for us to do in the final race to avoid relegation. Managed an average of 6:48 min / mile so not to bad for a course that wasn't particularly hilly or muddy but had plenty of undulations and energy sapping surface underfoot.

    Followed that up with a rather ploddy 16 miles offroad on rather tired legs this morning to match OO with 52 miles for the week.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    "what race will your lad be in" - senior men, Lorenzo - he's 30 :)
  • Nice woek @OO54 - very impressive time.

    No run for me today, just a very cold few hours out on the bike. Was wishing I was running just to be a bit warmer!

    @MrSoft - agree that your 10k time seems to indicate you should be able to go faster in the half with a bit of work on the longer tempo.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Well done OO. My mate did 84.09 for a pb and said first half was pretty breezy. 

    Mr soft, the first thing that struck me was your times became out of sync with distance. When I was at very low 40 Minutes for 10k I was running 1.27-1.28 for a half. Your 5k appears marginally better than your 10k also. Therefore based on that it's unlikely right now that you would convert your half time upwards quite so sharply. 

    Well done on the xc and long run combo, Lorenzo. I always struggle the days after xc.

    Well done on the Mara win, Madbark. Was it quite a hilly course? You don't see many marathons won beginning with a 3.

    Going back to yesterday's comments, I sorted my sleep habits out last year when I bought a fit bit. I used to keep all sorts of hours. I now try over 5 night's a week I wear it to bed to average 8 hours sleep. It's not always possible with young kids but on the whole it's much improved. I've found that makes a bit difference, largely  on how less frequently I pick up minor bugs.

    My diet is reasonable with a good mix and lots of fruit and veg. I'm sure however a sports nutrionalist could rip it apart. My biggest issue is booze. I'll find myself drinking 3 night's a week and that would usually be a bottle of wine each time. I've vowed to drop that to two once I get up and running. 

    I opted against the road bike today as it was freezing having spent 2 hours at junior rugby this morning. Did a decent threshold sufferfest virtual spin class though and then did a very slow 10 Minutes on the treadmill. Much improved but not ready quite yet. Is rather take an extra 2 weeks now then train consistently than be on and off all through February and March. 
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Crikey, loads going on here. Won’t say much as I have stupidly gone away to work minus a laptop charger. 

    Mainly, welcome new posters. I hope you will bring the age profile down as we youngsters get fed up with OGs like OO and Birch going on about the 1896 Athens Olympics as it were yesterday.

    Badbark, very nice mara but I will raise you one as I sneaked another in today, that’s 10 in 18wks although snail pace all the way. 81, if anyone’s remotely interested. MrsP has that glazed look again.
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    I've never quite got the hang of the half marathon - I either go off to quick and lose time at the end or hold back too much.  I think the problem is with a half marathon I have never properly trained for one and I choose ones that are too hilly and it kills my time. 

    Ive also got a 68.03 10 miler 2 years ago but haven't done one since.  I will probably be racing a half marathon late February to see how my training is going.  I think I might be able to PB as it's fairly flat.  In my plan I'm doing around 3.15 training paces, so if I don't do the time in the marathon, at least I know I gave it my best shot. 
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    "81, if anyone’s remotely interested"  - we are, Poacher, we are (lord help us) !!   is the century feasible this year?  
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Heavens no, it may appear otherwise but 100 is nothing compared to staying fit and doing few enough to keep on enjoying them. I don’t get these folk who knock out one a week but each to their own. Part of me wants to finish in London but to do so in 2019 would be tough, more likely 2020 but that would mean sneaking GFA one more time. Who knows.

    Actually Birch you are a great example of how to keep running for fun and fitness after the PB days are gone (and yours were at a far higher level that mine!). 

    I take comfort from the fact that OO only puts me to the sword in every race because he is a few months younger. Nothing to do with being a more talented and harder-working runner.

    I ran today with a guy who has had to agree to retire at 50 maras or face domestic strife and non co-operation. Ouch!
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Not sure what's wrong with my legs but yesterday was such a trudge. 15 miles off-road. Similar route to last week but it was more muddy than swampy, tough work but good muddy fun. It's runs like that when I wonder how I ever do 26.2. 8.25 avg pace but tough going at times.

    Went for a recovery today, planned 3 but did 4. Added some strides as I realised I've not done any quick leg turnover stuff for a while. This seemed to loosen me up and finished with a 6.48 split to average 7.15. Made me feel a bit better as I was still clearing crap off my chest too.

    Some excellent reading in the thread of late. On the conversion thing, I've done 3.09 off 1.26. The 3.09 was very windy while the 1.26 was just about ideal, maybe a 3.05 would have been possible in better conditions?
  • Birch - impressive stuff. I like the idea of taking a one-minute nap towards the end of a race! Hadn't realised your "lad" was going to be competing against us oldies. Please tell him to be gentle with us.

    I've twice converted 1:27:1x into 3:06:xx so know that I've got to get close to 1:25 if want to have a serious crack at a sub-3. :o
  • Some good running going on here. Well done guys!

    But for me: Ok Brisbane - ENOUGH of this weather!!!! Please stop!!

    Saturday I started at 4:30am to put in 9km before meeting the rest of the group at the usual car park for 16km together. I was drenched in sweat from the get go and the pace was suitably restrained. The others were moaning a bit towards the end of their 16, so I left it until the very last km of my 25 before stretching the legs and proving to myself I could still reach marathon pace. I actually felt pretty good and recovery came quick to me for a relaxing day in the pool and drinking wine....

    Sunday morning I wanted to do my recovery run. 11km nice and easy. I stepped out of the AC bedroom environment and it was awful - (a later google search of weather bureau shows it was 29C and 85% humidity at 5:30am when I stepped out the door)... my first few steps revealed very heavy legs, tough breathing and a pace that would have been around 7:30/km!!! I resolved to push through and see if I settled into a comfortable rhythm as I warmed up and adjusted to the steamy pressure cooker like environment.

    There was no hint of a breeze and when I emerged from the shadows into the already bright sun I knew I was in for a tough run. At 2km I felt like I was hanging out to turn around already and dreaming of a refreshing cold shower. I plugged away with a few other shufflers going past me looking considerably fresher than me.

    The sweat was dripping off the peak of my cap and after I turned at 5.5km mark, I stopped to drink at a tap. A wave of exhaustion hit me and I seriously contemplated whether I was going to make it home. Km after km I stopped at taps trying desperately to regain some kind of composure - but not quite managing. Still - I shuffled on.

    When I finally got home and through the door after the slowest 11km for years I sat and demolished a cold 1lt bottle of water. The shower was pleasant, but a wave of dizziness came over me and for a second or two I thought I might pass out. I dried off - but sweat was still pouring out of me faster than I could towel it off. My next move was out of interest to jump on the scales... I was 3kg lighter than the previous morning after the longer run WTF?!

    Feeling much better now having laid here in bed for pretty much the whole day basking in AC. 

    How long until winter comes again and I get some relief?

    Anyway - a 68km week done and still building the mileage towards Canberra Marathon in April.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Shocking conversions from me 5k 18:36, 10k 38:45, 1/2 1:29:05, MARA 3:20. It's unlikely I'll do a spring mara but might do an autumn one and maybe Jersey again (slow course) or another crack at Amsterdam as it's convenient having my family there. At the moment the focus is on strength and speed with the odd bit of endurance run throw in to keep a hand in it. 

    OO - You're moving so fast you're a blur! That's a great result and you were bang on prediction, so a good day in not ideal conditions.

    Lorenzo - Sounds like a good XC outing and a nice weekly sum too. 70kg for 6ft sounds very good to me. I would expect Birch's son to be finished/showered and back out on the course by the time I'm finished. :)

    Poacher - Another one! Bravo! 

    G-Dawg - That lurgy takes time to clear and could be a wee while before you feel really good again, good running though. 

    Mr Soft - Keep chipping away, sounds like you have enough raw speed to run a fast marathon. A friend of mine struggles to run under 19 for 5k but has run 6 sub 3's in a row and she's 44! She runs high mileage though and a lot of MP in her schedule. 

    Jools - Sounds like next week could be better in terms of what you can do whilst the ankle is still troublesome. 

    DT19  - I also spent 2 hours or more on the sidelines at my boy's rugby. I ended up doing a mile up and down the sidelines to keep the blowing flowing. My feet were becoming numb. 

    Big_G - Welcome and well done on your pb's last year. There's a good reason Badbark is known as Madbark in these parts. ;0

    A very pleasant cliff path/off road road run for me this afternoon in perfect conditions, 10c, no wind and sunny. Some beastly hills and tough sections en route, so I was pleased to see 6:55mm average for what felt like a moderate pace on that route. The weather is looking awful for next week with high winds again and rain so I thought I best get out into the wild and enjoy the good weather. 








  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    dad again, that sounds horrific. ,I used to love summer until I started running. 

    Poacher, surely when a man gets to 50 marathons his wife is brow beaten in to that way of life?

    81 is immense. When I started I was in awe of anyone that run 1. After my first 1 it was never again. Now I'm 4 in I'm  less fearful of the distance. I think I could get to 15 if I insisted on racing them all. More if i didnt. 

    Gerard, I have the oppisite issue in that my half time has always been unexplainably strong and 5k  weak. My first half on a stormy day was 1.30.13. I'd only run further than 10 miles twice before It and my 10k was only 41/42 minutes. 

    I did think about a few laps of the field and would have if hip was good. 

    My wife has agreed to Amsterdam which is surprising as neither of us have been there and raceday is our wedding anniversary. She has sorted childcare, which makes it more surprising as a weekend without kids is a huge rarity. As soon as I'm back up and running I'll enter. From Birmingham there are 4 flights a day to Amsterdam so it's quite an easy trip. 
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    DT19 - Great news re the Amsterdam trip. It's a great event and a lovely course. Incredible for spectators too, Ask me closer to the time and I'll happily give you the low down. My half PB is on our local course and it's not a quick one, similar to the marathon in that it's quite hiliy but a lovey one. I'm quite keen to race a flat one in the UK sometime in the near future. I hope you're hip stops giving you gip soonest! 
  • I didn't do the towpath challenge run yesterday: all seemed a bit hit and miss. Mixed thoughts about it now I am able to go onto Strava and see what happened. I had some email exchanges early on and was told:

     The idea is that this is a bit of a fun run, people will naturally be at different paces but the idea is that the group will be staying together and supporting each other to finish all together

    Not wanting to be elitist, but that didn't look good to me. If you have a mixed group, some will be slow and some will be fast and it is just as hard to run at a pace much slower than your normal pace as it is to run faster than your normal pace. Early January is a cold time of the year and the last thing I wanted to do was to hang about and get cold. I did a hilly off-road marathon in September in 4:24 so reckoned 10 min/mile pace for 30 was fine so 5 hours total.

    Looking at Strava, I see 

    4:32 https://www.strava.com/activities/1357799598 Jamie Ramsay who ran the length of America  from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, to Buenos Aires
    5:15 https://www.strava.com/activities/1357214221 Hannah and Emily of TWICE THE HEALTH, good run from them.

    but also

    7:29 https://www.strava.com/activities/1357335612 

    Seems common sense cut in and the group split up.

    Would not be fun today miserable weather tout there at the moment. 
  • Back at work today after our holiday, and I am on the injury bench!

    Basically I’ve only gone and “done a Jools”! Last full day of holiday was last Thursday and I was just thinking how well my runs had gone - nothing that far (max was 10 miles) but lots of hills and quality stuff. Then coming down the very steep stairs of our holiday cottage my foot slipped on the bottom step, and it twisted with me then falling the rest of the way. Foot/ankle swollen and bruised and it hurts a lot to flex it. I don't think it's quite as bad as Jools sounds, but definitely not up to running - walking is OK as long as it is flat ground where I know exactly how the foot will land, but every now and then I catch it and it's pretty painful.

    So my London training schedule is now back even further than it already was!  I will need to see how / if I can pick it up again - but safe to say I definitely won't be doing anything silly.

    Will also need to play catch up on this thread as I have fallen so far behind.

    But - Mr Soft - for what it's worth, my HM PB is 1.34, and full is 3.13 (and my 10k, 10 mile and 5k PBs are way slower than yours as well).  So it can be done!  But I am pretty much a one pace pony - once I get into a rhythm I can generally stick to it, but don't have a lot of real top end speed. So depends on what sort of runner you are I would say.  Definitely sounds like your HM is soft compared to your shorter distances.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    That will teach me to go away for the weekend! You lot have been really busy.
    Big_G
    - welcome to the thread; sounds like you've already got some good advice from someone with experience.
    DT19 - at least the physio seems to think it's nothing too serious; hope you can maintain fitness and get back into full training again as soon as safely possible then you can reassess your target. Enjoy Amsterdam!
    Birch - had a nice weekend, thanks.
    GM - good pacing. Still far better mara conversion than me!
    MsE - hurray!
    Nick - wise to avoid overdoing it too soon.
    Badbark - another day, another marathon win. Awesome!
    MrSoft - welcome to you too! Sounds like sub 3:15 should be achievable, certainly in the longer term.
    OO - great action shot! And very tidy time for your HM. Conditions not ideal either, I suspect.
    Jools - pleased to hear there's some progress.
    Lorenzo - good XC and off-road running.
    Poacher - 81. Legend! Although I thought you were still on for Berlin as your 100th? (It was Berlin, wasn't it?)
    GD - hope your legs are back to normal this week.
    DadAgain - I am over-heating just reading your report; sounds really tough.
    PMJ - sounds like you made the right decision.
    Lovely weekend walking in one of the few bits of Norfolk that remotely resemble hills along the coast near Sheringham/Cromer. Glad it wasn't raining like it did this morning! Out early for 10 miles with 6 x 0.5 mile efforts which turned out around 10k pace; far from peak fitness at the moment.

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Freemers: oh, no!  I'm sure you know the drill, but elevate as much as you can, ice it regularly and then, once the worst of the swelling has gone, start very gentle rotations/flexions to try and keep the range of movement there.  Today is my first day without a tubigrip, which is almost exciting.  The 45 minute swim I did this morning was less exciting.
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Mara conversions :
    5k .....18:18
    10k... 40:05 set years ago (ran 39 in training ,rarely run a 10k)
    1/2....83:50 
    Mara ...3:10 (injured again)  5k/1/2 and mara all within about 3 weeks of each other. 

    0054 cracking time looks like you really are flying in that pic , great leglift !

    PMJ probably a good decision

    Poacher I think you could knock out a GFA but you might have to do some running for a change !

    Freemers as there is no room left on the bench due to high demand I will give you my seat but I may need it again soon so speedy recovery.

    GUL nice way to start the week.

    Did a nice slow  3 miler this morn after 3 1/2 months on the bench ...

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good work for a  Monday morning Gul.

    Leslie- Have you done much other training to retain cv fitness in that time? Hope you progress with no further issues.

    I'm contemplating another slow treadmill later just for 10 minutes again. Yesterdays has had no adverse impact and so logically it will assist recovery, right?

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    G-Dawg said:
    Not sure what's wrong with my legs but yesterday was such a trudge. 15 miles off-road. Similar route to last week but it was more muddy than swampy, tough work but good muddy fun. It's runs like that when I wonder how I ever do 26.2. 8.25 avg pace but tough going at times.

    Went for a recovery today, planned 3 but did 4. Added some strides as I realised I've not done any quick leg turnover stuff for a while. This seemed to loosen me up and finished with a 6.48 split to average 7.15. Made me feel a bit better as I was still clearing crap off my chest too.

    Some excellent reading in the thread of late. On the conversion thing, I've done 3.09 off 1.26. The 3.09 was very windy while the 1.26 was just about ideal, maybe a 3.05 would have been possible in better conditions?
    GD Be very wary of succumbing to overtraining won't you?  A recovery run with strides is not really allowing proper recovery, especially with a sub-7 final mile.  IMHO I think sticking to the spirit of the run would go a long way to returning the springiness to your legs.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    DT19 said:

    Good work for a  Monday morning Gul.

    Leslie- Have you done much other training to retain cv fitness in that time? Hope you progress with no further issues.

    I'm contemplating another slow treadmill later just for 10 minutes again. Yesterdays has had no adverse impact and so logically it will assist recovery, right?

    DT19 The concern I would have is whether slow running exacerbates the underlying issue because you aren't running efficiently. Add to that the fact that TM running can mean your legs are pulled from under you (especially if you are slow running), and there is a risk of niggles appearing/making it worse.  Outside always trumps indoors IMO.  Or if you are going to TM run, go for short bursts of steady running focusing on good form (e.g. 3:30 mins) with walk recs (1:30 min) for 5 min efforts.  Six of those is a much better half hour spent on the TM than jogging along at, say, 9 min/miles.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Good action shot, OO.  Positively flying.  Perhaps your age being fixed is a sign of form to come....
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Leslie - good to see you out!
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