Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
lol BEJ. You are a far better runner than I will ever be. FWIW however, I seem to respond quickest to a weekly surge long run and a big individual rep 10km session with plenty of recovery, and then the rest of it easy, finishing a little faster if I felt good
Surge long run would be something like 5m easy, then surges of (in minutes) 1, 3, 10, 1, 3, 5, 1, 4, 1, 1 with 5 mins easy (not jogging in between), and then easy-steady to finish. Basically 30-40 minutes of surges - the shorter the surge the quicker you run.
Track sessions were something like: 1m, 1.5m, 2m, 1.5m @ 10k (1-2 laps jog recovery), 3 x 2m @ 10k, 2 laps recovery, or 3m, 2m, 1m - starting at just over 10km, finishing at 3-5km, with 3 laps recovery between.
LMH - glad to see you getting back to it. I've been monitoring my peak flow for the last while. It has been below par, at varying degrees, for a while. I've had the viral thing that has been going around, but it has never come out fully. With the assignment, and various other things, I essentially took this week off hoping that it will have shifted by tomorrow.
I hope the week off has worked for you TT.
Your 'interesting' long run concept is similar (yet a little more structured) than my 2010 approach. I didn't have time for many in the build up, so tried to get the most out of each, theory being that doing the same thing each week gives your body little incentive to improve, so better to add focus to this element. I had this advice at the time from Adrian Marriott.
Given the <10 minute duration of each, the ~10km paced reps probably hit your threshold rather than VO2max, so perhaps more marathon specific than one may think.
My new (well, 4 years ago) club coach sometimes puts in a block moving through 6 x 1km, 4 x 1500, 3 x 2km @ 10km pace which gets me in good shape (3km up) over 6 weeks. Despite the 'slow' track work, I can still hold my own in last 1km burn-ups whilst racing a decent half marathon.
IMO it would be even better if the reps totaled at least 8km (like yours), but others find 6km tough enough and finishing with a little in reserve does me no harm. The coach stole this session block after attending a talk from Mara Yamauchi. Thinking back to our SW London group, some of the winter sessions were along similar lines.
I guess you're getting a dose of tempo on both long runs and the long intervals, but a little surprised that you don't have a solid MP effort in there. Is this down to favouring 2 sessions per week to ensure adequate recovery? I think that I can squeeze in a third, as long as it's not a taxing / draining one, but may need to do that on alternate weeks as age creeps up.
For the 10km paced reps the long recoveries just allow me to go with a good pace each time, without feeling taxed by it. Probably similar to doing a Kenyan style fartlek at around HM effort (as in you'll recover plenty from 2mins @ HM effort with a minute of jogging). Like you I prefer to walk off the track with a little in reserve rather than being wiped out.
I've been lucky in never needing to practice MP to help with pacing. The reason I don't do MP work though is because the gap from my HM to MP is about 8s per mile so a 10m @ MP tempo is a grind on my legs - I prefer to think of it as 10m @ almost HM pace, and if I'm going to do that I might as well do a race.
Tbh, I find the over/under theory works well for me (concentrating efforts at paces above and below the target race effort), so for me I'd do the 10k work as above, and then a 10m(+) steady run (MP +30-40s) - I think you and I agreed before (a long time ago) that that kind of pace gave a great benefit without being taxing.
In terms of a 3rd session, I find that I'll do one naturally anyway, usually either dropping in the last 2-3m of a morning run a bit faster (anywhere from a decent tempo pace to a touch slower than MP), or just dropping a quick mile, or a hills(+stuff) session, and that works better for me than planning it. If I were planning it I'd aim for probably 5 over 2 weeks as you've said, but like this I can often end up (when training properly) doing 2 scheduled sessions + some quicker running on another 2-3 days.
Glad to hear things are feeling good LMH.
Gosh JB, that bug sounded nasty. As for me, I do keep track of my weight carefully, but eat pretty greedily (but healthily) regardless. I'm a little heavier than I would normally be on the London start line right now, but it doesn't vary too much -- would have been interesting to know how heavy I was on the morning of the Brass Monkey. Overall though I guess I'm a low-power, high-effiency kind of guy, so not much power for sprinting or charging up hills but OK for the flat and downhill!
I have the 48-mile Peddars Way ultra this Saturday with some fell-type mandatory kit requirements, so yesterday I trudged an ~8m/M training marathon round a grass loop (37 times, someone counted on Strava), carrying my little 2kg rucksack of representative stuff. And a 5M wooden plod to work this morning too. But I'll taper properly after today, however one is suppose to do that for a trail ultra... I took Fri and Sat off as my legs had got into a very cranky state, my fault for trying to get some miles on them too soon after the Brass Monkey when they were still DOMSd.
OO - Great run and time there fella... good picture as well. Well done!
BEJ/TT - Just reading your posts tires me out hahaha... all sounds too serious for a fat toolbox like me...
Speaking of toolboxes... I ran Helsby half yesterday to end a 54 mile week... thank god I wasn't targetting this race is all I'll say... 0c all the way around, sleet, ice cold winds... soooo slippy underfoot... everyone was well down on their normal times... I just tootled around but couldn't warm up at start and it took me 5 miles to even feel my toes and fingers I was that cold... then realised I was outside 7.00 m/m which wasn't acceptable, so picked pace up and averaged 6:54's by the finish... solid training run... but I really can't take anything from anyone who had a good run... terrible conditions.
Legs feel like sore mush today... absolutely worst they've ever felt pains everwhere lol... not great... so did 30 minutes cycling on machine and 3 mile dog slow jog on treadmill.
CW- bottle that run and wheel it out instead of the 2.54 3 or 4 weeks out.
Was rattling along nicely during my 30sec on/30sec off today, legs only ached a bit in last few minutes. Still not bad after 18m yday that had 3 long climbs in it.
Superb to read that kind of insight guys, thanks for sharing.
CW - love your training marathons, I remember them from when I was posting regularly a while back.
PUG - I could sense the tiredness in your words.
Pug - sounds delightful!!
TR - it sounds like you're coming along nicely.
sj - I'm unashamedly a running geek with probably close to 70 books on various parts of it now (mix of training, biographies, etc - some quite old) so I love a good training chat
I'm still not 100% so settled for 18m instead of the wanted 22m. Nice and easy. It's a little frustrating when a bug never fully comes out, but never fully clears either, but hopefully I'm almost there now!
Thought of you too CW when I read he thought it was important to do an over distance LR about 3 weeks out. July 24th he ran 28M in 2:55, July 29th he did an 18M fartlek in 1:43, Aug 12th he picked up Olympic Bronze in 2:09:58! Proportionally your T-3 marathon is faster compared to race pace though - You'd be more like 3:10
Sounds grim Pug - well toughed out.
LMH - as you'd asked about my course, 80%. Not quite what I expected/hoped for, but it looks like a lot of the lost marks are to do with needing to learn to write in a more academic style (which as it's 23+ years since I've had to write an academic style essay is not particularly surprising). I think I need 85% average over the 6 years for a 1st class, so I guess that's my target!
It sounds as though things are coming together TR.
Can't comprehend the paces/miles discussed.
Careful Pug.
Far from good I'm afraid Charlie - my legs seem to have been replaced by ones that don't quite work, continual tight feeling calves, hamstrings and quads despite foam rolling, compression tights, massage, good refuelling. I have no idea what's going on but wish it would stop.
Jooligan - I've done that Charlie Spedding session and nothing has broken me like that, absolutely brutal.
Pug - sounds pretty grim.
TR - sounds promising.
CW - training marathon in small loops, sounds like torture.
I'm still plodding a fair few miles, I'll start incorporating some hills next week.
LMH -- sciatic nerve problems? They can give phantom aches and pains right down your legs when the real problem is in your back or butt. Maybe doesn't quite fit with quads though.
Pug -- sounds like a nightmare! Reminds me of the (postponed by snow) MK half, where I was considering turning up in fell shoes and waterproofs in case merely surviving would have made me competitive...
LMH.. from memory my legs usually feel cranky after a longish lay off, takes a week or two to get back to normal.
Pug.. true grit in abysmal conditions
Not been on for a while, so just skimmed through.
OO - that sounds like a solid run in the warmth. And the same for Pug, but opposite conditions!
LMH - yes, I've done MK 3 time, twice pacing a mate (2:57) and once properly (2:38 IIRC). The current course is reasonably flat, but there are quite a few turns, particularly later on in the race, which slow it down a bit. Overall I reckon it might be about 3 mins slower than something like London. Really well organised though with a nice stadium finish.
Sorry to hear about some of the illnesses that have been going around. We've had our fair share within the household too.
I've been pushing up towards the heady heights of 40 mpw for the last couple of weeks. So not much but I feel like I'm running reasonably well considering. Best run recently was 16.5M on Saturday inc. a parkrun in 18:33 (off-road, quite slippery and reasonably undulating), and towards the end of the run I felt great, cruising at about 6:30m/m. It was wet and cold which maybe made it feel easier.
Aiming to make it to the track tonight for the first time in a while.
I was going to add a don' try this at home disclaimer to those long runs as they are for the hardcore, but Stu did it for me - and he is hard-core!
6m inc 30min of 150sec/30sec today, legs were turning over well again, hopefully I'll go better at chichester than I did at stubbington, I hope to be smoking it round the motor racing track.
Yeah defo won't be trying any of those sessions any time soon.
Late to bed last night due to bliddy work. So dog-tired today but got out and ran the scheduled 8 mi with 10 x 30 secs (stolen that from you TR) instead of 10 x 100m. Fairly steady and felt good on the surges until I turned and ran into the wind, then less impressive.
Anyway, pleasing to see a run average 7:3x instead of the recent 8:xx. Am a little concerned about the shorter build-up for this campaign.
Short sleeves and shorts at this end tonight... snow/sleet 48 hours ago.
SJ - I hate it when the surges feel really relaxed and fast, until you realise that you had the wind behind and are fighting all the way back!
TR - sounds like you're building it up nicely.
Tough session on the track on Tuesday, especially for the first one I've done since early December (and I did 5.5M at lunchtime). 8x1,000m with 200m jog recovery, so 9.6km in total. I was on my own after the first couple and lapping people a lot, so actually ran about 9.9km in total. Was hitting 3:20 pretty consistently for the efforts and just under 60s for the recoveries, so got the 9.9km done in about 34:30. My right hip was a bit sore after all those bends in the same direction.
Just did a few miles very slow with mini-Padams and the dog yesterday - legs felt OK but calves are still quite tight today.
Forgot to mention before, but Mrs Padams and I are trying the press-up challenge this year, inspired by Dan last year (Mrs Padams doing "half press-ups"). So up to 25 today - so far I'm managing them in one go, but starting to struggle...
Loving the PUG tales from the road. Always entertaining.
Very hit & miss running going on here. Might be coming out of the worst case of plague ever recorded; almost six weeks since I was last snot free! Monday pretty much summed up my winter so far. Crammed in a two hour run in the morning as I hadn't had time to do a long run at the weekend. Then limped off 5-a-side after a minute in the evening due to not being able to run a step with painful groin strain.
Entered a couple of races, as given free entries to Manchester Marathon and Race to the Tower (though may miss both due to work clashes). Seems a long way off though from being able to do myself justice at either. Turned V45 yesterday too. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Wardi -- yes, Parker's Piece. I'm sorry I missed your racecourse loop for my cool-down, maybe next year I'll get to experience it too -- or try that blistering parkrun round it you described if we're up there for a Sat am.
Padams -- always impressive. I actually did some press-ups this morning as part of my (ir)regular core exercises, but I don't think I'll have any chance of keeping up with the day of the year!
In stark contrast to Pug, I'm struggling to eat my lunch having already had a mid-morning Soreen banana loaf (entire) on top of a cereal + fruit yog earlier breakfast. Belch. Feels strange doing the usual things but a day early (for a Sat race -- but I love it being a Saturday for a change, leaving Sunday to wallow in recovery). Looks like we'll be blessed with a favourable wind, which is quite handy when running 48M in a straight line.
Thanks for the MK info Padams. I was surprised that it's a slower course than London.
There have to be easier, better and healthier ways to do it Pug.
Gran Canaria Marathon 2018
I’ve taken a fancy to running Spanish city marathons, they are positive, noisy, colourful affairs in the sunshine and the Gran Canaria marathon ticked the boxes as was the fact it was likely to be cold, dark and wet in the UK. I ran it in 2017 in 3:00:14 and 45th place and the plan this time was for a top 30 finish ideally around 2:51-2.53.
Clear blue skies, the smell of jasmine, the sound of waves crashing intermingled with the Black Eye Peas ‘Lets Get it Started’ greeted us for the start. The first half is out of the city and along a coastal dual carriageway which was gently undulating with 10K passed in 38:59 and half way in 1:23.31. I had a soft target of sub250 but it was getting too warm, there was no other runners has company since km 7 which mean’t I was not in a full beenz kinda mood, so I decided not to push it and mentally reset to a sub255 run to prepare for the Barcelona Marathon in March.
Km times starting slipping from 4m/kms to 4.15m/kms but I was just pleased to enjoy the race and make sure I kept to a reasonable pace. Two Brits who had gone charging past in the first half were now struggling, one who went through h/w in 1.18 finished in 2:59, the other DNF’d. The Northern European runners were struggling whereas unsurprisingly the Spanish and Kenyans loved it. I just counted down the kms down trying to keep cool (temps were around 24-27C) Very relieved to hit the Las Canteras promenade with cheering enthuastic crowds, a beautiful beach to run alongside and 2 kms to go. I overtook a few and a similar number overtook me, but I was not in the mood to chase today.
The chap who had stuck to my tail for the past 15kms now also overtook and I recognised him as the guy who did the exact same thing last year – he beat me again by 20 seconds – but I was happy just to keep a decent shape and get to the line, which I crossed in 2:54:29 and 21st overall and 1st V50. Really happy with the position and the time as just before the 2017 race, going sub3 seemed a long way away and since I’ve run 6 sub3’s/ average 2:51:20. Interstingly, 1632 were due to run yet only 990 or so finished, so suspect a good % of DNF due to the warmth.
But for a marathon or half marathon in the warm winter sunshine I would recommend you consider the Gran Canaria marathon, date set for Jan 27 2019 – I will be there.
CW - I might try that 28m run in advance of a summer marathon - like the sound of that.
Pug - well braved out on your run and as for the diet go for it fatboy!
Padams - That looks a decent week of training.
Thanks all for the thanks - always appreciated.
CW - best of luck for the ultra at the weekend, a favourable wind is always helpful when you've got 48 miles to run.
Happy birthday for yesterday Dan. I'd wager all the other V45's will be quaking in their boots. Doing anything to celebrate? Just be patient and build up the consistency and the form will come back in no time.
Doing more bike work over the winter so not loads of running to shout about. Got a pretty tasty club tempo session tight (3 x 3.5 miles @ MP), I'll ease into it and try not to get too carried away. Anyone else running in the South of England XC in Brighton on Sat?