The Middle Ground

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  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Good to have consistency through the intervals @AndrewD

    I did an intervals session with a group from my office, some seriously quick runners there too.

    8 x 90 seconds @ 5k effort then 6 min @ threshold
    Ran the 90 seconds round about 6mm (a couple came in at 5.50mm) and the threshold effort came in at 6.30mm.  Really pleased with the session.

    The guy leading the session ended up 150m ahead in just 90 seconds, so was flying.  No idea what his 5k time is, but must be quick!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    good sessions both!

    I am going to push things out a bit over lunch. Whilst my leg is not 100% it may well just be scar tissue now as nothing I am doing is making it worse and it is getting better. Therefore I am going to head for 5 miles just to see if there is a reaction. It may well stiffen up etc whilst doing it but I am thinking this is part of the recovery needed.

    Annoyingly I have been looking at the results from last sundays 10 miler that I missed out on and I would have won the v40 prize even on a relatively bad day.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    That is frustrating DT, but you can't dwell on 'what if's'!

    4.5 easy paced miles last night and I have a tempo session planned for later this afternoon. Only 2.5 miles within a 5 mile run, but I've got to start again somewhere!

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Tempo run felt good, with paces at 7.18, 7.16 and 7.19 for the last half a mile.

    Terrible weather forecast for tomorrow so am planning my long run later today instead - 7 miles planned.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Managed the 7 miles on Saturday late afternoon. Was a bit of a struggle in the latter stages to be honest - think 4 days in a row was too much for me at the moment. 21 miles for the week though, which is decent for me.

    How have other people's weekend's running gone?

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I've been ticking along. Still doing bike work. 5 miles on Friday went ok. Things stiffened up over first 3 miles then loosened off. I was a bit sore Saturday but better again yesterday. Did a sufferfest bike session in the morning then an easy 3 miles last night which felt much better than Friday and it all feels pretty good today.

    I'm hoping that another week and I can be back on plan.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Missed my lunch run today and evening swim had to stay home with ill toddler.  At least I could switch it for a turbo.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Hope the toddler is feeling better now JGav.

    Nice little tempo session last night, 3 miles at tempo within a 5.5 mile run. Tempo miles came out at 7.34, 7.32 (both a tad slow) and 7.15 (a tad quick), but overall not bad.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Yes she's all better now.

    Did 3.5 miler on Tuesday and got out today for intervals 5x3mins and then a threshold effort.

    I really need to learn the difference between 10k and threshold as my paces are identical.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Im still struggling. I feel absolutely fine in day to day movement.

    I did a 5 miler at easy Tuesday lunchtime and it was terrible. Then I saw physio Wednesday night and treated me in that area quite robustly. There was a very prominent area in my piriformis and tfl as it joined into femur that was very sore to touch. That seems to have gone since physio.

    He has given me exercises for completely inactive glutes and a very tight ql. So hopefully that'll help. I would also imagine having active glutes would generally help my running!

    I am going to nip out for an easy run over lunch (he was very clear I should continue light running).

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear that DT. Think something like a piriformis injury can be a real bugger to get rid of, so fingers crossed for you.

    My 5 miles last night felt a bid of a struggle, just fatigue from the tempo session the night before I think. Hopefully will feel fresher for this evening's intervals session!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    5.5 miles lunchtime. Best ive felt since mid December. Not perfect, but if I hadn't been injured it would be something id class as a mild irritation but not over think it.

    Fingers crossed there is no adverse reaction over night.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Looks like a long road to recovery but it sounds like you're getting some improvement.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Intervals went ok. Wasn’t a long session though, need to build up the volume over the weeks.

    Sounds encouraging DT.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    10k tempo run yesterday, came in at 50mins exactly.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I always feel short changes from interval sessions in terms of the volume but then I wouldn't want to do anymore as I don't like them.

    What was the target, jgav? Going back to your comment above, the line between threshold and 10k pace are very fine. For me it's only about 5 seconds a mile so it is very easy to over pace it. I tend to find more joy working slightly sub threshold so there's less danger of overdoing it. over Autumn my threshold was circa 6.15 so 10k about 6.10. I would then aim for 6.20 on basis I'd be a bit faster and come in about 6.18. 

    No reaction to let from Friday so will go out this evening to test it again. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Same here, tempo is only slightly slower than 10k pace (7.10-7.20 tempo, depending on the length of the session, and about 7.05 pace in last 10k race). 

    10k at tempo is a beast of a session though if it was truly done at that effort level!

    7 mile long run this morning for me, felt ok. Pretty mild and springlike at times too. 22 for the week.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Actually, just thinking about it JGav your paces in general seem a bit contradictory - you did an intervals session a couple of weeks ago at the pace an 18 min 5k runner would do it and now a tempo run which was heavy in volume but actually at a pace that is about 30 seconds per mile slower than I (a 21 min 5k runner at best) do my tempo runs at? 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Unless by ‘tempo’ you meant ‘steady’ pace in terms of effort level (which might be akin to marathon pace)?

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    AndrewD said:
    Unless by ‘tempo’ you meant ‘steady’ pace in terms of effort level (which might be akin to marathon pace)?
    AndrewD said:
    Actually, just thinking about it JGav your paces in general seem a bit contradictory - you did an intervals session a couple of weeks ago at the pace an 18 min 5k runner would do it and now a tempo run which was heavy in volume but actually at a pace that is about 30 seconds per mile slower than I (a 21 min 5k runner at best) do my tempo runs at? 

    This. So in my mind, 10k pace is 4.10m/km, threshold pace should be 4.20 - 4.30 and tempo pace is slower again. 5m/km possibly should be "mara pace" rather than tempo. Too many different terminologies.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Yes, it is strange that threshold and tempo get used interchangeably in training plans/books! 

    Either way, 10k at that pace on a training run is still very decent in my book, whichever label we put on it!

    Have you got any races lined up soon?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes that tallys in with mp looking at the other paces. I do like a 5-6 miler at mp. Gets things working but doesn't leave you with any residual fatigue.

    When people use the term tempo, to me that means a faster paced effort, however given the way it is interchangeably used in place of threshold, I just assume people mean a threshold run.

    8 Miles easy last night, gives me 18 miles for the week, so not a complete write off. My legs are a bit achy today as that's the first time beyond 5 miles in 3 weeks. Seemingly no ill effect in the hip, though calf muscles are tight. Hoping to get some more physio midweek as that worked a treat last week.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    DT - would you recommend me switching in a couple of 5/6 mile MP runs as replacements for 7/8 mile long runs as part of a 10k training plan? Or would I get more benefit from just sticking to long runs (alongside interval and tempo/threshold sessions)?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Andrew, If you are feeling good on your long run, I don't think it would do you any harm as your mileage is generally on the lower end of the scale. Perhaps if you were to try 2 miles at mp within it for a  few weeks and if that feels good, slowly progress it out to perhaps 4-5 miles. I think mp is also a good pace to run in a base period as well as it keeps you in touch with faster running without breaking the point of base work.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Thanks, sounds sensible. I'm only expecting my mileage in this training block to peak at 25.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    AndrewD said:
    Thanks, sounds sensible. I'm only expecting my mileage in this training block to peak at 25.
    Still more than me, but then I've got the bike and swim work to fit in.  Long bike is a good substitute from a long run.  I do 25-35k running per week.
    Though still need to get medium long runs in for time on feet.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    see for me JGav- The long run is the one I would be least likely to swap for a long bike ride. Mainly because to achieve the same effect a 90 minute long run would need to be a good 4 hours on the bike. Also, whilst it may work your aerobic system to the same degree, you are not get the muscular endurance. I think bike work is great for recovery and higher end cv and intervals.

    But you are right in that you don't need to be running the same mileage as Andrew as you have other activities in the mix.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    DT19 said:

    see for me JGav- The long run is the one I would be least likely to swap for a long bike ride. Mainly because to achieve the same effect a 90 minute long run would need to be a good 4 hours on the bike. Also, whilst it may work your aerobic system to the same degree, you are not get the muscular endurance. I think bike work is great for recovery and higher end cv and intervals.

    But you are right in that you don't need to be running the same mileage as Andrew as you have other activities in the mix.

    I can't get both a long run and a long ride done each week with family commitments.  My plan is to alternate them with the occasional medium then long brick nearer the A race.  The running is only HM distance which I've raced as a standalone before.  The hard part is doing it at the end of an already long session, hence the bricks.

    I also get most of my volume from running compared to relatively limited bike and swim.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    ticking along here. 2 runs this week and 14 miles. My highest weekly total this year is 20 so far and I'm hoping to pass that number with an Easy run tomorrow. 

    I'll have to do some faster stuff eventually I guess!
  • Same here really, ticking along during a cutback week. Planning a tempo run tonight, 3 miles at about 7.20m/m pace.

    Need to get around to entering a couple of 10ks in April/May. Will plan to do a parkrun in a couple of weeks too.

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