Sub 3h15

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  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Birch said:
    Brilliant, Gerard, on a dodgy course - do you have a 100% tarmac course locally ?   
     
    Backed up the midweek 15.5 with a couple of 4's on Thu, Fri, then 12 this morning with my friend, and my daughter, who is now relocated back here, so was good to have her join us.  MsE - I incorporated a few strides and "accelerations" into one of my 4 milers, to try and trigger a bit of zip in the VoGit legs  . . .    
    Delighted to hear it, Birch! This article is a really good explanation of the different ways you can prime that neuromuscular control to regain that lost zippiness. Sprinting (or strides) are easy to incorporate into runs.  Hills are speedwork in disguise with minimal impact but also work on form.  Strengthwork is invaluable as we naturally atrophy with age not only for finding that snappiness but also to protect against injury in day to day movement.   Three options to help you get that speed of movement back!

    https://anathletesbody.com/2014/12/02/neuromuscular-control-why-is-it-important-for-runners-and-3-easy-ways-to-improve-it/
  • GM - always nice to run round a field in the dark.
    Leslie - Feb miles higher than Jan already then!
    Nicko - take it easy for now. You can postpone deciding whether or not to defer for a while I guess.
    MsE - we are privileged to have an ambassador on the thread!
    Spamalot - maybe you could benefit by introducing a few slower runs (including slowing down some of the long run) but take care not to do much in the way of speed work while your body adjusts to the higher mileage and fewer rest days. As others have suggested, there are various schedules readily available to help you.
    DT19 - coming on nicely.
    SBD - 1:30 should be fairly comfortable, I should think. Unless you're planning another extra-high mileage week leading up to it!
    GM - excellent parkrun for a big PB and in poor conditions. Well done!
    Birch  - solid miles again.
    MsE - thanks for the link. I think I'll have to stick to strides/short sprints given the absence of hills and the gym not being open early enough!
    I made it to parkrun today. Due to flooding, it was an alternative course, which my watch measured as 3.17 miles (usual course is 3.01!) Finished in 9th place just behind my friend as usual. He says he has been consistently about 30 seconds slower on this course. According to my watch, I slowed down very gradually (6:00, 6:04, 6:08) and finished in 19:19. But my official time is 19:31, which is strange. 
  • DT19 - Thanks and I'd day you're about right. I ran 18;41 recently on a road 5k and I'd say I'm in about 18:3x shape at mo. Our parkrun course is tough. There is a steep energy zapping hill of about 400m in length right at the end and about 2k of it is on trail path, so not the quickest course. I normally struggle to break 19;30 on it. 

    Birch - Thank you! There are a few here. I hope to get closer to the 18 min mark soon. Great running by you and great news re your daughter! :smile:

    Gul - Nicely parkun too. Our course measures about 3.16 so I know the feeling. Better long than short though as you still get a 5k time on your watch.  
  • Plenty going on here at the moment - struggling to keep up a bit!

    Chapeau to GM for an excellent 19.00 this morning and well done on the early start as well. Have you been taking advice from Gul about running around a field? I seem to remember that used to be his forte.

    Excellent advice as ever from MsE although I confess to not being very good at following it. I have these occasional times when my Achilles feels a bit sore, but strangely it's not when I'm running, and more often than not first thing in the morning. Should I be doing some stretching before I go to bed?

    Glad to hear the recovery is going well MsE - what distance are you up to on your long runs now? I've got a 20 on the schedule for next Saturday if you and the dogs fancy catching up.

    Welcome Spamalot - just to reinforce DT19 and SBD's advice, I think you've got to looking to increase the mileage (min 35 miles a week and probably closer to 50) and making the long run much slower (slower than 8 min / mile). I'm very mindful of a comment that someone (Matchstick Man I think) made a long time ago that he always aimed to stay away from running at 7.xx min / miles - it was either 8.xx for the long runs, or 6.xx for the shorter stuff. Will be interesting to see how you fare in the Cambridge half but sounds as though you're right to say you need some more structure.

    Consistent running from both Gul and Birch as ever, and a big month logged by SBD.

    Leslie - more miles done on 1 Feb than the whole of the month before! Definitely heading in the right direction. :)

    OK running week for me so far - two commuting runs on Monday and Tuesday; a slightly disappointing one early doors on Weds morning in which the faster 5 miles (out of 8) only came out at an average of 7:0x and then easy on Thursday and rest yesterday.

    Got out for a good hilly one on the roads around the Surrey Hills this morning  accompanied by Marathon Talk and Infinite Monkey Cage podcasts. 19.5 miles in total with the final 2.5 miles at a pleasing 7 min/mile average although I was helped a bit by the gradient for some of this.

    50 miles for the week so far, and depending on how I feel in the morning I may head out and take part in a local 10K just to see what kind of speed I've got on tired (rather than bashed up) legs.

    215 in total for me in January, which I guess puts me middle of the pack.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    A bit careless there, GM:D

    Went to bed early last night as my throat was a bit sore and had a few sniffles.
    Woke up feeling OK-ish, had a couple of biscuits with my green teas and a pint of water. However, I had some crap on my chest (not a lot) which was annoying more than anything. My mate came round for our LSR and as we were about to leave, I tried to clear my chest a bit, gagged and lost my breakfast down the khazi.  :D

    It was raining and cold, so of course I carried on.
    We met another mate nearby and hit the trails. I was snotting and gobbing so I sat back to spare them my filth. This all sounds like I should have been in bed but this lurgy is so close to being fixed, I'm know I'm ok to run (low HR etc)  otherwise I know I will have to answer to MsE;)

    Anyway, we tapped out 18 miles in rain, cold, swamps, mud and other crap. It was good fun but hard work as my snotty head and tickly chest thwarted some of the usual enjoyment.

    Bizzarely, it was much quicker than last week, which I can't quite work out.
    After a 5k recovery tomorrow, I'll hit 44 miles for the week and ticking along nicely. When this final part of the lurgy goes, I'll be on FIRE!!! :D B)  
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    well done on the parkrun, Gul. Another should have been sub 19 run.

    Gd, good long running. You have more resilience than me!

    6 miles today takes me to 27. Interestingly it also improved my Garmin vo2 from 58 to 59. My expectation was I might start going down on that.

    A rather unexpectedly positive 6 nations afternoon followed the run with a stuffing of the Scots. This has led to me having beers. My rule is under 15 miles the next day drink away. Only a few though as a morning on the junior rugby touchlines await!
  • Lorenzo - good week; hope you can round it off with a 10k.
    DT19 - yes, would have been close I think. Looking promising.
    A couple of missed timings messed up the parkrun results, so my official time is now 19:20 which is close enough. 11 slow miles this morning to make 64 for the week but no long run.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Great parkruns Gerard and Birch. I ran a 19:05 in good conditions- pretty disappointed with that but you have to go with it.

    Todays long run was cut short. We stopped to help and old couple. The lady had fallen off her bike with a bad cut to her head and concussion. After 20 mins stopped in the could just couldn't get going again. But even after 15 miles I still scraped 50 for the week.  

  • OO - You did the right thing, hope she is ok. Still a great weekly total. I'm averaging about 28 miles a week at the mo and have been for about 2 months, but I've getting some quality runs in. I'm glad I'm not mara training as the thought of doing 20 milers in this winter weather doesn't appeal to me at all. 

    Gul - No long run and still 6x miles this week. Wow! 

    More mucking about in the field for me today. 5 miles, which was about 20 laps, each one has a sharp little rise and a short sharp downhill on the opposite side, energy zapping on the legs after about the 10th lap, so some good practice in the spikes. No heroics today about 7:12mm average, dry and sunny for a change but a biting cold breeze. 
  • Gul, solid parkrun performance. You need to get those legs into a race soon.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Definitely the right thing, oo.

    12 miles today for longest run since Boxing day and 39 miles for week. Slightly conceding that what should be a routine mid week long run, was quite tiring. Though that's first time over 8 miles since 2nd January and longest run since Boxing day. So I hope it'll come back soon. 
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Good parkruns from Gul, GM and OO.

    Well toughed out on the long run G-M - I'm glad I wasn't following you.

    Solid long run Lorenzo.

    Severe CNBA thoughts today before the long run but that's the advantage of having a schedule to follow.  Hailstones at five miles didn't make it any better but in the end it turned out be a solid 20 miles at an average 7:37 m/m with the last five miles at 7:02 m/m. 73 miles for the week

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    GerardM and @"Gul Darr".  Both looking quite pacey - get thee into a race forthwith!

    Sorry not to join you on your LR today, Lorenzo.  I am not quite up to 20m yet but will be in touch when the hounds and I can join you again.

    DT19 it sounds like you are making really good progress.  Don't despair as it all looks good from here.

    Excellent LR from @"SBD." I sense your fitness is coming on exponentially at the moment with the increased volume in mileage.  Bodes well for race day.

    Finished a 51 mile week feeling great (hopefully I haven't jinxed myself) so am building back up slowly but surely.  Today I aimed to run for 90 mins at at average of 8:00 min/mi. I hid my Garmin (kept it on watch) and was pleased to come in at 1:31 av 7:59 min/mi.  I might do more of these runs.  It is fun to test my internal clock and speedometer!  
  • Good long runs from SBD and G-Dawg despite non ideal conditions / circumstances

    DT19 - glad you enjoyed the rugby. Straightforward for us today, but let's see what happens next weekend. ;)

    Good decision and well done OO - hope she's OK.

    Almost got waylaid by the CNBA fairy this morning but ended up taking part in the Nonsuch 10K which was was billed as "a rapid 4 lapped course with a lot of PB potential".

    Bo***cks!

    In summary it was a very amateurishly put on race which I felt as soon as I turned up would be a disappointment - if anyone sees anything organised by MCC Promotions, stay well away.

    In essecnce, it was just 4 laps of the Nonsuch parkrun course, with about half on paths and half on grass / mud which made getting any kind of traction a challenge so calling it a PB potential race when it's run in February was a joke. Marshalls chatting away on their phones and complete confusion as to the time the race was supposed to start depending on which website you looked at and who you spoke to. If they're organising the Brewery 10K, don't expect too many drinks at the end.

    The only positives I can take out were a 7th place and mission accomplished of managing an average pace of 7 min / miles just to prove to myself that I could manage this the day after a long run. Oh, and the race T-shirt will serve me well at London as something to wear to the start and then throw away.

    Bah!
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    So you don't recommend it then, Lorenzo?

    In all seriousness, an excellent effort from you. Sorry to hear it was such a shambles of a race.  I am increasingly inclined to avoid overpriced amateurish races to put an end to the explosion of "races" which seems to be capitalising on the boom in running.  But then again, maybe it is just my middle-aged grumpiness kicking in.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    SBD, schedules do keep you honest in my view. It's equally easy to downgrade a big session of its just you telling you to do it. 

    MsE, similar to my run with 12 at 8.03. Feel fine now, let's don't feel like I've run today. Perhaps last night's beers made it tougher. 

    Lorenzo, good run all the same. I tend to avoid races if they are not uka affiliated. 

    Definitely no running tomorrow as today was 4thday consecutive so will just do spin. 
  • SBD. said:

    Severe CNBA thoughts today before the long run but that's the advantage of having a schedule to follow.  Hailstones at five miles didn't make it any better but in the end it turned out be a solid 20 miles at an average 7:37 m/m with the last five miles at 7:02 m/m. 73 miles for the week

    That is a very solid 20 miler indeed. What are your plans this year? I recall you tend to run Wokingham Half.
  • OO - well done, hope the lady's okay.
    GM - you need to find a bigger field ;) Good work.
    PMJ - Race? I wish!
    DT19 - bound to take a while to get back into it. Keep at it.
    SBD - excellent 20 miler and good miles for the week>
    MsE- coming along very nicely and great pacing.
    Lorenzo - sorry to hear it was a bit of a shambles. I always read Nonsuch as No such. Anyway, excellent effort the day after your long run.
    12 miles to start the week here. A 4 mile progressive warm-up avg 8:21, and 8 miles @ 7:27.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    MsE - "middle-aged grumpiness" . . . .     what about this load of, to use Lorenzo's succinct epithet - "Bo***cks! "  (from the blurb for the new Asics Nimbus )
     
    "new mesh upper that adapts to the foot. The mesh allows air to fully permeate the entire upper sucking in cool, fresh air at the same time as pushing hot, muggy air out of the shoes . . . . provides a much better climate for your feet to work in  .. .   "     FFS !  
     
    a snip at £149.99  :/    surely no-one pays these prices ?   
  • Birch said:
    MsE - "middle-aged grumpiness" . . . .     what about this load of, to use Lorenzo's succinct epithet - "Bo***cks! "  (from the blurb for the new Asics Nimbus )
     
    "new mesh upper that adapts to the foot. The mesh allows air to fully permeate the entire upper sucking in cool, fresh air at the same time as pushing hot, muggy air out of the shoes . . . . provides a much better climate for your feet to work in  .. .   "     FFS !  
     
    a snip at £149.99  :/    surely no-one pays these prices ?   
    The decathlon website has this extra info, so you pay less (£114.99) but can only go up to 12 km/hr 8 minutes per mile.

    Designed for men running on the road, 3 to 6 times weekly between 10 and 12km/hr.
    With Flytefoam, the latest in foam, the GEL NIMBUS 19 is once again the model for comfort by ASICS.
  • I used to run In Asics Nimbus but the price is now ridiculous and I can never find them cheap (even under £100 would be a start).  As for that description, and PMJ's observation about max speed, that is priceless! 

    Lorenzo - that's a shame about the Nonsuch 10k.  They used to run a different one there that made use of the tracks in the park but avoided the grass, and would have been a lot quicker.  But that was a different organisation I think - it was one of a series of 3 10ks on 3 weekends, can't actually remember where the other ones were (Esher maybe?).  Anyway I went to school there so you probably ran past that?

    I think I am now about 90% sure I won't be toeing the line at VLM.  The foot I twisted isn't causing me any problems but the Achilles niggle I mentioned just won't go away and is causing me quite a bit of grief.  I can just about run through it, but I can feel I am limping a bit and it means I am over-compensating on the other leg - so much so I have DOMS in one quad after just a 6 mile run yesterday!  I am going to see my podiatrist/sports therapist tomorrow to see what she thinks.  Trouble with Achilles even when it's not really serious it can take a while to sort out.  Given I am still a few weeks off where I need to be I think probably it's just not going to happen (apart from the 10% of me that still keeps thinking "maybe").  I'd rather make the decision, get everything right, and then look further ahead.  Final decision to be made this week...

  • Back on the plan after flu...8 miles with some strides! Feels good to be back! :-)
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    That would be a shame Freemers but you will know best.

    Good effort Lorenzo- I hate shabby races like that- usually the commercial ones with no running club involved.

    MSE that's a great weekly total- I assume its your highest for a while?

    10 easy miles here to make up for yesterdays fiasco. One of our Sunday group is a police sergeant. She took complete control of the situation. Had a similar incident a couple of years ago when a man tried to commit suicide by drowning himself in the sea. Our Sunday runs can be pretty eventful...

  • Gul - Indeed, I do need to find a bigger field. The one I ran on is only 5 mins drive from mine, so very convenient. It's basically one big loop around a rugby and then football pitch but there is a rise from the football one to the rugby one.

    G-Dawg - Haha, yeah I was although I'm blaming the stupid dog owners who had their dog off the leash on the trail path and the thing went for me and I almost ended up trampling on it and lost my momentum. You still sound poorly but you are getting it done. I ran through mine as well although I don't think I goy it as bad as some folk on here.

    DT19 - Quite a few of my friends are into spin, I tried it once and hated it but then I don't really like cycling unless it's for just pure pleasure on a sunny day. You'll never see me in lycra, no chance!

    SBD - Great LR. What's the target for yours?

    Birch - That's the biggest load of nonsense. I run ion Adidas Boston boosts. I get them for £5x online (I get the VAT off) and bought 3 pairs recently as they are so suited to me but I would never ever pay that sort of money for running shoes. I've found the holy grail for shoes for me and that's something which means a big deal to runners. Will you be looking at a race in the near future to test the water, so to speak?

    Gul - A good dozen to kick off proceedings for the week. Are there really not that many races locally near you? My sister has friends very near where you are and they always seem to be racing but perhaps they go out of their way to.

    Lorenzo - What a disappointing outcome for that event and I totally agree with what MsE said. Still, a good training run and a very good position.

    MsE - It's great seeing you logging such consistent miles and I don't think you are being grumpy at all. Some of these guys are chancers. We, the more experienced runners, expect things to be pretty slick in terms of how they are organised etc.  Good running not watching the clock. I often run to feel and only look at splits much later in the day. It's a nice feeling and I think it's good practice for racing. I haven't got any major race plans other than Parly Hill and a few local trail and road events here. I may do an autumn mara but undecided as yet. What about you?

    OO - Another nice start to the week. very eventful by the sound of it.

    RunningGas - Glad to hear, it's great isn't it.

    Freemers -  It sounds like you already know. I'm sorry to hear that it's been so bad but if you do make that call then you can concentrate on your rehab.



  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Sounding very sensible, DT.  I can see you are definitely not one of the ones I need to keep an eye on in here  ;) ;)

    Excellent start to the week, Gul.

    Birch - It is ridiculous and all part of the big con that is cashing in on the running boom.  I think it has to be the novices who are none the wiser so accept the advice for all the support etc and buy the latest model?  Most of us get old season versions and other less beefed up models when we work out our preferred drop etc.   You also have made me subscribe less to the 400 miles so chuck them out camp and to have a good feel to test if my shoes are past their use by date.

    Freemers - sorry to hear it but sensible in the circumstances.

    RunningGas - great news!  Take it easy coming back now.

    OO - well done on making up the lost miles.  Those runs sound more  eventful than your Strava titles suggest!  I think I hit mid-50s before I took my tumble at Christmas so I am back up there.  A few more weeks here and I can introduce some speed I think. Just some strides for now.

    Gerard - uh oh. You asked for it.... I was only looking at the races I signed up for today and thinking "oops!" Upcoming races entered are as follows:
    1. Sunday 11 March - Surrey Half Marathon
    2. Sunday 18 March - Reading Half Marathon (entered as a back up plan in case Surrey HM didn't happen)
    3. Sunday 6 April - Richmond Half Marathon*
    4. Sunday 20 May - Sutton 10K*
    5. Saturday 9 June - 65K Ultra (charity event - deferred place from last year)
    6. Sunday 17 June - Richmond 10K*
    7. Saturday 14 July - Elmore 7 miles*
    8. Sat 21- Sun 22 July - 24 hour relay ultra (team of 5)
    9. Sunday 12 August - 5K*
    10. Chester Marathon (This is my A Race for 2018)
    *these races are part of the county league summer road races entered as part of the club.

    Obviously I don't plan to peak for all of these. The races I would like to focus on are the Richmond HM and Chester Marathon.  I am pondering how to approach them as I need to build sufficient volume to make it comfortably around 65K (although will take it very easily) and the 24 hour ultra.  But I would like some zippiness.  Any ideas???

    (wondering if we need am updated race list for the thread?)


  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Freemers - real shame - will you look to an Autumn mara?

    Gerard
    - I'll probably enter the County Road League again (4 x 5 milers), which I did so badly in last year.  First one is midweek after the clock change (so, last week in March), then two in April, final one early May.  Maybe two or three parkruns beforehand.  
    8.5 today, inc 3 x 1 mile (legs felt bit wooden)  , but its in the bag (and the diary) !!  
     
    wore my Wave Riders for this session, MsE - 635 miles and going strong :)   
  • Birch you are sly-ly putting in some v good quality - can we tempt you to another mara? 

    SBD that's a standout LR, assuming that you are targeting a spring mara.  Are tempted by 2:5X?

    Nice work DT, GM et al.

    Spamalot - good form so far, "listen to everyone, follow no-one"

    MsE - impressed by the mission and your all-round ability to come back each time from injury.  Tough cookie!

    Lorenzo that sounds like a crap race. Worth a boycott. But you are clearly in very good form right now.

    A running shop manager told me at Christmas that the reason why there are fewer bargain shoes around is that far fewer are being imported.  To do with the level of sterling, Brexit fallout, or whatever.  So the days of 6 month old shoes at bargain prices are gone.

    Still snow/sleet/hail in the Peak but 45m last week, today 8m run + 21m MTB. Starting to feel a little less useless. Best sight today: on the canal towpath, an elderly couple taking their 3 llamas for a walk, each one on a lead. Bless! I'm told that foxes detest the smell of a llama so having a few hanging around the farm is a good way to protect sheep.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    MsE, I love that you've built up to 50 and are still yet to declare yourself "back". I've only ever hit 50 miles in a week a couple of times. I have two 50 mile weeks in my current plan. I clearly need to up my game!!  :D
    Great to seek progress so well, brilliant!

    Sorry to hear of the injury woes, Freemers. Praying for a miracle for you. 

    I think my cold is on the mend. Chest cough is more loose and I'm snotting more (nice!).

    February is my next macrocycle and is more speed focussed. I need my legs to use the endurance built in January and get used to faster turnover and deliver drive from the glutes and hips. 

    Tonight I knocked out 8 miles at 6.50 pace, all splits under 7.00. Really pleased with it as I could feel genuine drive from the engine room. A good early marker for the month and looking forward to slowly building on it over the next 3 weeks.
  • Birch - That's great, will be good to have a crack at the 5's again.

    G-Dawg - Impressive 8 with the lingering lurgy and all.

    Poacher -Taking 3 Llamas for a walk! That made me smile. It snowed here last night for about 5 seconds!

    MsE - That's some list! The Richmond half is good timing, plenty of time to get sharp for that one. Will you race the Surrey one or run it as a gauge of fitness? Didn't Badbark get his Mara pb at Chester last year? I've heard good things about that race. Are you able to get to a local parkrun? That could be a good way to introduce some speed endurance into your running. Although it's not pc to say it's a race, in my view it is, if you want to race it and I certainly run a lot faster at parkrun than I would if I tried a solo 5k run especially on an off road course. Another thing I like to do and it's working for me, is, run a 4-5 mile hilly run each week. It doesn't have to be up a mountain or anything but pick a route that has a gradual climb of about 2 miles or so and then back down. I put an honest effort in and try and improve the time every other week. It is great for building strength and speed at the same time. KM reps are one of my favourites too but with short recoveries (60s). I try run mine quicker than 5k pace. I aim to do at least 5 of them. And how to go about combining zippiness with sufficient volume as well...... I'll leave that to the endurance experts. I very seldom run further than 10 miles when not in marathon training and when I do, I always seem to get injured when I do the longer stuff. I admire everyone getting their LSR's done, especially as it's been a bit of a rough winter but I can't say I envy them as I don't miss it at all. What has been your longest run so far since your return from injury?

    So, who's in for the nationals XC are Parly hill? I can't remember who said yes. Double for me yesterday, 4 miles up a hill and back down, then 7.5 last night. I just got home in time before the snow/sleet came down. There is a 5k road race tonight. I'm tempted but the weather is not looking favourable with sleet and wind forecast. Will see.

  • Birch -£149.99? I'd want at least 6 pairs for that sort of money ;) Nice intervals in your Wave Riders.
    Freemers - sorry to hear that. Probably right to make a decision soon.
    RunningGas - welcome back.
    OO - yes, very eventful. I'll stick to my solo long runs.
    GM - hope the weather is kind and you can make the road race tonight. There are a few races around here, but I guess it depends on what you call local! I can only really make one Sunday morning a month without causing major upheaval and have to be back in good time too, so that I do put a lot of limitations on my selections. But on the other hand, I do have a nice field just a few hundred metres away from my house and it has 3 or 4 football pitches and a tarmacked are for basketball etc.. so about an 800m loop.
    MsE - Now I'm very envious looking at your list of races...
    Poacher - don't think I'd be too keen on that smell either.
    GD - cracking 8 miler. By the end of your speed marcocycle you will be leaving a trail of smoke.
    Stayed up late last night trying to catch up on paperwork and consequently overslept by over an hour this morning. Just time for a progressive 4 miler (7:55, 7:00, 6:43, 6:07).

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