Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - nice route, I've run to Compton/Marldon quite often but could only do it on Sundays due to the crazy drivers using it as a rat run, would never have risked it during the week.

    Yes, that programme was really interesting.   That test was impressive but remember that's only a 25% improvement on that person's fitness which as they were unfit isn't much, so they might move from 'very unfit' to 'poor' but it shows that even small life changes can improve health and fitness.

    Iain - good to hear from you.  I guessed your new training plan and coach were keeping you busy. :)   How did you find 16 miles of grass to run on, unless you were running round a racecourse?

    You'll easily find another 8 marathons to do in 6 months, plenty choice of races now.


    Just waiting until it gets a bit brighter before going out for my run, bloody freezing here again, I'm fed up with this weather :#


  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Had a good run, 10 miles, very cold but a bit of warmth when the sun came out.   The ponds are starting to freeze now and the section of off road I did on my run back was frozen, usually the tree cover stops any frost there.   Should all thaw tomorrow hopefully.

    For all of our technological advances there is still nothing to replace getting one of these in the post.....


  • I agree, I love getting my race numbers in the post.
    Some good news, anyway. My calf actually felt better after yesterday's stress test. I was able to do a single leg calf raise (20 actually) on it without any discomfort. It is still sore in certain positions  but fortunately that doesn't seem to affect running.

    I managed 3 miles (3.2 actually) today with no problems from the calf. My hip is niggling though, but I could feel it when I woke up yesterday, after a week and a half of no running. I'm starting to wonder if it's rest my body doesn't like.

    I'm going to see how my calf reacts and if it continues to do well I shall do a longer run tomorrow. It's looking good for me getting to the start of Hampton Court, anyway (even if I won't do a good time).
  • Shades - the running on grass was interesting. Tough on the calves as you'd expect but I felt it was of great benefit specialy when we were keeping the pace just below 7min/miles. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that's good news about the calf and it's healing quickly.   You could be right that your hip stiffens when you have a few days off.   You still have a few weeks until Hampton Court so it's looking good.

    Iain - must have been tough on the ankles too doing that pace over that distance on grass.


  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Iain - good to hear from you, sounds like your training is going well.

    Shades - we had a heavy frost round here this morning, roads were icy. There were a few snowflakes in the air last night but nothing substantial.

    Cal - good news about your calf

    I am mostly over my cold but still have some remnants of it. Haven't run since Wednesday. Also this morning the inside of my ankle started hurting while I was on the train - I'm not sure why, maybe I bashed it on something and didn't notice. So not sure what I will do this evening, would like to do the 5 miles fast & 8 miles easy as last week but may skip the fast bit and just do the 8 if I don't feel right. Need to go for a walk to pick something up from the shops at lunch anyway so will see how I feel then.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good news there Cal - fingers crossed!

    Nick, it was similar here in that there were a few snowflakes around yesterday but nothing laid nearby.

    Shades, I agree it's always nice getting the race numbers in the post.

    I did 11.5 this morning, so that's 33 for the week so far.  Legs are feeling quite tired though maybe partly as I've ran 8 days in a row - that wasn't intentional, but it's just the way it's happened.  It probably means that if I run at all tomorrow, it'll only be 3 or 4 miles as a recovery, but I'll see how I feel tomorrow. 

    This morning's run was another fairly hilly one, and for the 33 miles this week I've done 3200ft of ascent.  I ran 49 miles in total last week and only managed 2100ft, so I've definitely been doing hillier runs so far this week.
  • Not that long, Shades - just a week and a half. As I'm not race fit I'll just use it as a training run and then go harder (if I'm still in one piece) at The Big Half two weeks later.
    Careful with that ankle, Nick!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Nick - hope the ankle is OK, how odd it started to hurt when you were on the train :/ 

    Big G - is that Strava or your Garmin you use for measuring the elevation of your runs? 3200ft equates to some good Devon hills :) 

    Cal - sorry, I thought Hampton was in March.

    Not so cold today and not a breath of wind so feels much nicer, is going to warm up later too.   Ran out on the main road and for the first time this year, except when we had that mega bright moon, I was able to come back on the back roads. Spring is on it's way. :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, that was Strava.  I never look on Garmin Connect but your question has just prompted me to check the difference for those three runs.
    Strava:  1141, 1101, 992 = 3234
    Garmin Connect:  902, 838, 809 = 2549.

    So quite a difference and probably not much use really, apart from a general "this week has been more hilly than last week".  It would be interesting to use a device that actually works out elevation to see the difference, but my Garmin 220 doesn't do that (so there is no elevation data on the watch itself).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Big G - I know, I've seen differences such as yours on posts from other runners when discussing races.   I'd just like to know a reasonably accurate way of knowing.

    That's a big difference in your 2nd measured run :o  If you've got nothing to do could you measure one of those runs on here https://gb.mapometer.com/ and see how that compares, thanks.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, for the second run I've just checked it on mapometer and it comes out as 1113, so much more similar to Strava (1101).  Is that what you were expecting?  It wasn't exactly the route as I used an underpass that wasn't on mapometer, but it is very close.  I couldn't reliably check the other two runs as they both had some trails, which I wouldn't easily be able to figure out on mapometer.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Shades - glad it's warmed up for you.

    Big G - It's odd how different they are. I tend to not trust Garmin Connect because it tells me the elevation gain and loss separately, but they sometimes don't even match each other when I have run a circular route (and so finish exactly where I start). Incidentally for my latest run Strava says 492ft elevation gain but GC says about 430 ft.

    After much indecision and overthinking about what to run yesterday, I decided I'd do 8 miles with the fast group and push the pace, with the option to drop back if my ankle didn't feel right. Ended up having a good run with 7:06 average and it's a fairly undulating route with a mile long hill in the middle. That pace last year would have had me right on the limit, and while it was hard work yesterday, I had some left in the tank and pushed on in the last 400m or so. So I guess it's about half marathon pace? Who knows. PB is 1:37:47 (7:27/mile) which I think is pretty soft at this point.

    Ankle was ok, it's a dull pain all the time but running didn't make it any worse. There is a small graze on it so I think I must have just bashed it on something and not noticed at the time so it's just a bit bruised. It's no worse now that yesterday.
  • That's good news, Nick. It's funny how we can hurt ourselves and not notice. I have cut (mostly healed now) on my foot that I didn't even notice until I went to yoga and started doing warm-up stretches. I have a good idea how it happened but didn't even notice at the time.

    Shades, you're not entirely wrong - there are two Hampton Court halves - the original (February - starts in Thames Ditton and goes past the palace) and the Palace half (March - starts in the Palace grounds). I'm doing the first one, anyway.
    It felt a bit more spring-like to me too.

    I did 6 miles today (well, 6.2). Hip was fine. Calf was mostly fine although it did feel a bit tight towards the end so I decided not to try and extend the distance any further. Oddly, whilst I'm often slow and sluggish after a lay-off, that hasn't been the case this time. Which is good, I think!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big_G said:
    Shades, for the second run I've just checked it on mapometer and it comes out as 1113, so much more similar to Strava (1101).  Is that what you were expecting?  It wasn't exactly the route as I used an underpass that wasn't on mapometer, but it is very close.  I couldn't reliably check the other two runs as they both had some trails, which I wouldn't easily be able to figure out on mapometer.

    Thanks for checking that, it's what I expected, mapometer is exaggerating as it seems is Strava.   You can do trails on mapometer, switch off the 'follow roads' and if you use the alternative map most public footpaths are marked up.   I've stopped using mapometer as the elevations are way higher than the same routes I measured last year.   I shall just revert to my own judgement re hills in future.

    Nick - sounds like the ankle is OK and just an knock that you didn't notice at the time.

    Cal - I had it in my head that Hampton was 18th March, didn't realise there were two races with a similar name, good to know I'm not cracking up ;) 

    Promising run calf wise, are you using your new shoes now?


    Ian - any news on the achilles?



    Lovely walking home from Pilates, feels mild and a touch of drizzle. :D


  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Cal - I wonder how many people get confused and turn up at the wrong one haha

    Forgot to mention - part of why I decided to go with the faster group last night - it was bloody freezing!

    Interesting about elevation, I don't often give too much attention to specifically how high things are as there's no mountains or anything round me, and for regular routes I have a decent idea by now of how hard I should be pushing on hills. Incidentally, was working fairly hard up the biggest hill last night, 4th mile is basically all uphill and I reckon normally worth about a minute if you are doing an even paced run, so was pleased with a 7:38 for that mile.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good news about your ankle, Nick and that pace bodes well for your Half.

    Shades, it would be nice to be sure what the elevation is.  Having said that, I just know I need to get out on the hills for the DD, so that's what I've been doing.  As you know, there are some monster hills near by.  One route near me (Coffinswell) takes me close to what is the highest point in Torquay and the surrounding area (it's called Great Hill) so that'll do :)  It would be nice to know for sure though.

    As you know, I'm doing Humdinger Half on Sunday which the organisers have advertised as 1380ft of ascent.  I don't know how they've measured that but it'll be interesting to see what Strava/Garmin say.

    I did a flat, 4-mile recovery run this morning at a steady pace, plus a 5-mile walk with the step-dog (for coffee and flapjack) afterwards.  Legs felt okay and I just fancied the run, so went out just to turn the legs over.  All being well, it looks like it may be another 60ish mile week.
  • Nick - If you can run that pace in training for 8 miles, I'd say you are good for a PB over half marathon distance.
    Cal - Yes, I enjoy the race, it's a nice flat course with the bonus that I know it won't be too hot for racing! Very busy though with 17k runners and yes it is expensive, but the medal is very good!
    Shades - I guess so yes, even though I do hate the speedwork!!

    I did 9m Tuesday, 11m Wednesday and then today was back to the Vo2 max work. Had it in my mind that I wouldn't hit paces as the race is probably still in my legs. Plan had me doing 2 sets of 2*1200m+1*800m. Stupidly set Garmin to 0.8m instead of 0.8km for the final rep though!! Reps were 4:25/4:37/3:06 (1200/1200/800) and 4:41/4:33/5:00 (1200/1200/0.8m). Hard work that session was!!
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Steve - yeah I kind of think if I can do 8 miles in training, at a consistent hard effort but not so much that I felt I couldn't have carried on at the end, then that's roughly target HM pace. Nice reps, must have been tough hanging on for the last surprisingly long one!
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Nick - Yes, went off hard after my recovery, and wondered why my watch wasn't beeping to tell me to stop after I thought it should have!! :D:D You'll probably find the pace easier in a race too as you will have others to pace off.
  • Some good running this week guys.

    Unfortunately for me I've not been in the right head space this week my beloved labrador dog died suddenly on Tuesday which has knocked the stuffing out of me so not been able to run. Hopefully I will get out this weekend.
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that steven
  • Oh gosh, sorry, Steven. It's always heartbreaking to lose an animal friend. Take care of yourself eh?

    Shades - not yet - I thought I might take them out for a spin tomorrow. They'll take a bit of getting used to so I won't do any long runs in them just yet.
  • JugulaJugula ✭✭✭
    Steven, that’s terrible, I still feel really sad when I think about our lurcher who went 5 years ago.
    Cam, great news that the injuries are behaving themselves.
    I haven’t run since Sunday as I’ve been working all week, I forgot how tiring full time work was!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Steve/Big G-Well done on the Pb's,both starting the year well.
    Nick-I'd think your half is soft for you,reckon you can get 1:30 soon.
    Steven-Sorry about your dog.
    Cal-glad to hear you're getting better.
    Shades-Sounding like you're having a good winters training,should bode well for when you start racing again.
    As for me I went to another physio to get a 3rd opinion,he advised a few days rest to let the swelling go down then gentle running and see how it feels,so due to go out tomorrow after work so not much to report,it's definitely less swollen and painful now,just need to see how it reacts.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Big G - yes, some good hills around Coffinswell, I shall venture that way soon when the mornings are lighter. I don't know which one is the Great Hill though!   Don't forget to work on the downhill running too, probably more important than the uphill running as far as DD prep goes.

    I don't know how races calculate elevation, don't think it's done as part of course measurement process so I guess done by Garmin, will be interesting to see what reading you get on Sunday.

    Steve - tough session there, I bet you thought the last rep would never end!!

    steven - so sorry to hear about your dear Labrador.

    Cal - you shouldn't have a problem with the shoes, switching to a higher drop is easy, it's switching to a lower drop that can take time and cause problems

    Jugula - good news that you're working, not so much if it stops you running but you're racing this weekend anyway so you could call it a long taper.

    Ian - good to hear the achilles is responding to rest and less painful too.   Hope today's little run goes well.


    Am taking a rest day today, only my 3rd this year.  I tweaked my back yesterday, I think it might be from running in the cold when my muscles feel stiff.   I did Pilates yesterday hoping that would clear it but it's much the same so will rest today which is my short run day anyway.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Steven, really sorry to hear about your dog :(  

    Shades, I raised an issue to the club committee about elevations and club records.  There is a local 10K course that has a large net downhill elevation change and a club record went on it.  That course didn't have a course accuracy certificate so we changed things to say that courses need to have an accuracy certificate to count for a club record.  Also, one of the committee checked with a course measurer he knows, and it was confirmed that elevation isn't checked as part of the measurement process.  So if that course does get an accuracy certificate it would then count for a record, but there's nothing that can be done about that really.

    Shades, hopefully your back will ease after a rest day.

    I went out to Exmouth last night (second time in a week, following Fulfords 5 on Sunday) to see a show at the theatre there.  There's a fictional political comedian/ranter called Jonathan Pie, and I got tickets to see him.  He calls himself an "old-school leftie", and I love a good political rant so had a good night.  There were apparently some people there from the BBC and ITV who are hoping to bring him to the TV as currently he's basically just on the internet, but has a large following on there.  We ate at Exmouth Prezzo beforehand, which was nice too.

    Awful weather here overnight, but it looks okay now.  Going to go for a short run in a while.
  • Steven - Sorry to hear your news.
    Shades - Yes, I kind of knew where I would finish the rep, but when I looked at watch it still said I had just under 0.4 miles left so I knew something wasn't right!! I'll have to double check my settings before my next session!!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I didn't think a course measurer measured elevation as it's not really relevant.   

    That makes common sense that club records can only be set on courses which have been officially measured, now all you have to do is hope that the race adhere to the measured course!   Not a problem round here that I know of.

    Sounds like you enjoyed your night out without a drink :) 

    Steve - I know that feeling......when you're sure the finish line of a race is round the next corner and when you get round that corner you still can't see the finish line :'( 


    We've had a few flakes of snow, first snow I've seen this year. :o
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I had wondered if there would be something in the measurement process though, because world records can only be set on eligible courses; there is a rule that says "The decrease in elevation between start and finish shall not exceed an average of 1m per km".  The local 10K definitely doesn't adhere to that, even if it was officially measured.

    I did 6-miles this morning, with 4 a bit quicker at least partly because I got caught in those few flakes of snow and it was cold!
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