Over 60's training (Part 2)

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  • Mick
    enjoy that sunshine and dry heat How long are you there for?

    Ray 
    how is the recovery going?  real ale is what is needed!

    NZC
    Have you had a diagnosis on your knee or are you self treating.  Fortunately I have had mistracking patella before so I was fairly sure what it was and I appear to be getting through it with some manual therapy.
    Climbing up and down ladders decorating doesn't help it much!!!
  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭
    NZC
         I had surgery on my patella about 15years ago.Not even sure what they did now but solved the problem.

    Dave
       Pretty sure you will run a quicker time with more speed training work.

    TS
      Recovery is okay thanks.Excellent news on the thyroid hope you are on the mend.A decent forty minute run.Sad news about Bruce Tulloh.

    Decided to have a go at our clubs handicap over 5k on Saturday.This is a testing course with two hills,one is about 300m and a shorter one about 50m.The begineers who have just finished there 12 week course were making thier debut.Started almost at the front but the sub 20 group on were the start line.The initial first mile is flat with a long downhill and then you hit the long climb with the pace and stride decreasing rapidly.Once at the top a recovery downhill section before hitting the shorter hill but quite steep.Then a long flat run in of just over 1k to finish.Happy to finish in a time of 23:29.


  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Ray - excellent 5K there - which will be a high-end WAVA score . . . .
     
    TS - thanks for your comments -you're right, of course - I should vary my training much more than I do (although I was restricted by the dodgy hamstring for several months).  Would you recommend drills, as well as speedwork?   
    Good news on your "levels" - hopefully some running improvement will follow  . . .    
     
    Dave
  • good morning

    Ray
    excellent 5K run on a brutal sounding course - not much scope for getting into a constant pace with all those changes in incline - both up and down!!

    I am still not convinced I am at my previous "normal" level but it's better than nowt!

    Dave
    the only way to get faster at 5K races is to run fast 1 mile reps
    the only way to run faster 1 mile reps is to run fast 400m reps
    the only way to run faster 400m reps is to run fast 200m reps!

    personally I always chickened out of the 200m reps. Being a former sprinter they always left me completely knackered as I could run them anaerobically whereas on the others I could rely upon some aerobic component to keep me going and recover.

    Mile reps are a good place to start and they don't need to be super fast at  first. You are running 7:30 ish/mile pace in your 5K  so aiming at 7m/m pace for say 3 x1 mile reps with 400m jog recovery should be doable at first without too much strain and then seek to push it on to 4 and then 5 reps before trying to lower the pace when it starts to feel comfortable - or at least as comfortable as reps ever do!
    It's where a HRM comes in handy so that it is not perceived effort but actual effort that one is monitoring.
    Once a week is quite enough and it should be preceded by an easier day's running - and followed by one at typical recovery run pace.
    The improvement that one gets benefits the body's ability to transport oxygen and improves running economy as one's body gets into a better rhythm and it normally  comes on quite quickly.

    Easish 4 miles yesterday with all the usual hills. hash tonight in Wetherby which is generally nice and flat for a change!


  • day in showery London yesterday - not helped by train being delayed by half an hour on the way back so very late in.

    bright and sunny this morning but chilly when in shadow as I puffed around 4.1 miles in 39:45 (9:45m/m).  The puffing was particularly bad on Hipps Hill which formed its usual formidable barrier part of the 95m of climb encountered.
    In contrast Tuesday evenings run was 4.8 miles with only 30m of climb so it did not shatter me quite so much and in fact I even had the puff to raise the pace over the last 200m when a young woman had the temerity to try and run away from me :)!  paid for it afterwards but the DoomBar tasted very good
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    TS - good running/ale combo :) 
     
    thanks for your suggestions - I'll certainly bear in mind, as I need to devise a completely new schedule and mindset now.  I'll sit down this weekend to do so.  have taken stock a bit this week - did a few drills and "sprints" in the park, and just a couple of 6 milers in addition.  I'm away the week after next, so next week will be a "gauge reaction" week, then a week off, then get down to it properly !   
    Do you have any stretching or strengthening routine?  
     
    Dave
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    just done another 6 - bit warm , but no complaints after the mostly icy weather so far this year !  
  • NZChristineNZChristine ✭✭✭
    Well guys, I've got something to report! I've finished another marathon! Yep - ran/walked Rotorua with my son 5hrs 45.38!

    Entered the night before. My knee still very painful, but thought I'd start and see how it went. 

    Forty years since my first marathon which was Rotorua so really wanted to see if I could do it and my son was already entered.
    We started behind the 5.15 balloons, but my son finds it hard to run that slowly so we fartleked the whole course. His running and walking is faster than mine so I needed to run a bit while he was walking. Great result and my knee doesn't feel much worse than before we started. 

    Someone was looking after us as it was perfect running conditions, didn't have to tip one cup of water over my head! That is an achievement! My marathons always seem to be in very hot conditions. It was my 45th marathon finish and also my pw time by very happy it was under 6hrs!
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    Blimey Christine, that came out of the blue! I'm so pleased you managed to finish the distance in spite of your knee. Very well done and good for you.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Great stuff, NZC - and congratulations on your unique (and successful) strategy - 
    "fartlek-ing" a marathon !   :) 
     
    Dave
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    very sad to see this news 
    https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/training/motivation/olympian-and-top-marathon-runner-ron-hill-reveals-dementia-diagnosis

    I've had the privilege to meet Ron , and a treasured possession is a personally signed copy of "The Long Hard Road" - such a great man.    
     
    Dave
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Just popping to say that whilst Ron does have a dementia diagnosis we have exchanged several phone calls recently where he has been more alert than many other soon to be 80-year olds! He did forget one name in the last but one conversation but phoned back a few days later to say he had remembered the name, plus to enquire about another mutual friend. 

    I also had a chat with one of his sons who says things are not as bleak as is sometimes reported in the press. No surprise there! His son said the advice from the consultant is to improve his diet, reduce his salt intake, ensure he takes his tablets, and to exercise more, both mentally and physically: good advice for us all, whatever age, and certainly for us over 60s. 

    At present Ron hasn't been doing a great deal of exercise because of an underlying heart issue that broke his 50+ year streak last year. However he is now starting to walk more regularly and I think is becoming more confident that one day he will again break into a run! He is rather fed up with the situation, having had a life time of running, and is struggling to get out and about much as he no longer wants to drive. 

    And on a completely different note, well done to my friend Christine: no surprise that Rotorua was again conquered! 

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    many thanks for the information, Alehouse  . . .    
     
    Dave
  • NZChristineNZChristine ✭✭✭
    Thanks Graham, Birch and alehouse. You don't have to be crazy - but it helps.

    Sorry to hear about Ron Hill, but glad that you are still able to communicate really well with him alehouse.

    Must be very tough if you are aware that you can't remember stuff, bad enough that you can't run, but wonderful if you can still get out and walk.
  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭
    NZC
           Well done for finishing another marathon,amazing effort with the knee injury and restricted training.

    Good to hear positive news about Ron Hill a true legend.

    Had a few days of from running just being lazy.
  • NZC
    WOW!!  mad as usual but very well done for completing the Rotorura marathon  :)
    I sensed you were desperate to do it after your least post but had reconciled yourself to being unable to compete - talk about a last minute decision!
    Hope the recovery is going well.

    Alehouse 
    I hope you are not suggesting the British press are nor always fully factual in their reporting??!!
    Better news on Ron Hill from you - I can only imagine how frustrated he is at not being able to run after a 60 year streak - I was bad enough after 6 months!!!

    Birch
    It is important to try and maintain muscle as we get older 
    If you are going into a higher intensity of training it would be good to preempt some of the strains associated with that. Achilles and calves are commonly afflicted so start with some strengthening  of those by eccentric one legged lifts on the stairs
    http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/sport-injuries/ankle-achilles-shin-pain/achilles-tendonitis/strengthening-exercises-achilles-tendinitis

    Although they are billed her as a means of overcoming achilles problems they are a very good means of preventing them as well!  I still do them 1-2 times a week or when I remember!
    One legged jumps are another  good and very simple way of  building up leg muscle strength - do them on soft, grassy ground to minimise impact - the garden has been too soggy until recently to do them!!
    Then all the standard core exercises to help stabilise that  essential area
    https://www.runtastic.com/blog/en/top-6-core-exercises-you-should-be-doing-if-youre-a-runner/

    Fortunately my back surgery prevents me from doing them all but I manage a few.  They are all body weight which means that no equipment is needed

    Graham
    how are the toes progressing -any improvement?

    Ray
    it has been good weather for being lazy B)
    I ran early on Sunday morning when it was already 22C and a high mileage run ( well 5.2 miles is high for me) wiped me out for the day. Even worse yesterday!!

    I have abandoned internal house decorating - too hot. Fortunately my wife found a couple of steamer chairs that needed extensive refurbishment which meant I couldn't even lie on them!!

    A local pub tonight for the Hash - walking distance to and, more importantly, from ..............
  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭
    TS
    Reckon last night would have been a good night for hash.Doombar is a very good pint quiet easy to get carried away with it.

    Graham
    Hope you team are not up for it tonight because we can be very fragile when it matters the most.

    Track session last night was 15x200m with a 100m walk recovery.Seemed to have put on a bit of weight as I have not been watching my diet.
  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    Ray, I don't think you have too much to worry about as we seem to have taken our foot off the pedal since reaching safety.

    TS, I think there's slight improvement. It's coming on a bit less often and is less intense when it does. Cautionally optimistic but it's  a long job.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    TS - thanks for posting those links - I'll incorporate some of those in my new routine . .   hope the Hash evening went well
     
    Ray - good session of 200's there - not too impeded by excess poundage, I hope  . . .  
  •  Dave
    This popped into my mailbox and I thought of you - although I suspect you may not quite look like the users illustrated :)
    https://www.realbuzz.com/articles-interests/running/article/7-new-stretches-runners-need-to-try/

    Graham
    I read the local newspaper editions in London yesterday and it was all about how the poor darlings at Spurs were too tired to play properly and that the Toon really should have won!

    Ray
    try 18 pounds over weight. I am finding it extremely difficult to shift weight as the thyroid levels regulate metabolism and I ain't burning enough energy.  Your 200m reps sound very gruelling - 200m is that really nasty distance between all out anaerobic and high level lactate. 15 is a hell of a lot!!

    A couple of days of meetings including a  long day in London yesterday followed a near 6 mile hash on Tuesday - well 5 miles of Hash and a 1 mile jog to the pub meeting place as I was late leaving home!!  
    Nearly did me in but I was suitably revived afterwards by a local blonde - IPA not female variety.

    Lovely cool and sunny morning today but I was knackered from the first step and never got going. My knee is still grumbling so bailed out after 3.1 miles 
  • .............everyone got sunstroke?!

    Tried a run last evening = really struggled with my knee so ended up walking in which was quite pleasant as it was warm and sunny but a bit dispiriting. Needed more beer to help raise said spirits but I was driving :(
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    TS,
    Sorry to hear you are stilĺ struggling with knee problems. As you know it took me a while  and a lot of work to get to the point i could run pain free, so I can empathise. 
    I am back in Canada where summer has finally arrived and enjoying running my river routes.
    I have started doing strides and farleks to prepare for another park run but I am painfully slow, luckily so are most 70+ ers.
    My youngest daughter and I have entered the Toronto zoo run, which takes you around the animal enclosures.
    This may sound like fun but she is determined to beat me on what is a hilly course so I have the summer to prepare for the father daughter battle in the zoo, not that we are competitive.

    Mick
  • MIck
    hope you enjoyed Crete - long way back for you after a holiday.
    You should be nicely prepared for summer now!

    Depending upon the animals roaming around you could be in for a fast time  :)

    My knee is a bit problematic at the moment - thought it was improving but it has suddenly gone backwards.  I suspect it needs some rest and anti inflammatories to get rid of some puffiness 
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    TS,
    Crete was great with perfect weather. Off season is the time to go as I could see it getting very crowded. We definitely want to return. As well as running I managed to get some time to draw, even leaving a sketch in the villa guest book. I received a wonderfully flattering email from the owner when I got home. Made me feel quite artistic.
    Off for a run along my river trail after a tough 7k yesterday with some younger friends. They never make any allowances for my seniority.
    Good luck with the knee, you just have to be patient.

    Mick
  • Ray A2Ray A2 ✭✭✭
    TS,not good the knee is acting up,hope resting it helps.

    Mick,good that you enjoyed your holiday and to able to get outside for a run.Look forward to who wins the race with your daughter the hills may be in your favour as you are still strong.

    Not a great deal going on with my running really just doing normal sessions.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Hi all - just back from a week in Cornwall - no running done (managed a 15 last Sunday though) - feel slightly lardy around the waist  :/
    Day one of my new routine tomorrow - TS, thanks for the latest link.  Hope your knee is showing signs of improvement.
    Mick , Crete sounds good . . . .  
    Ray - "normal" sessions good - seems you're back in a routine now, after the marathon episode  . . .   
     
    enjoy the fine weather, everyone
     
    Dave
  • Mick
    yes - you chose a good time to be in Crete. High summer is just too hot. We have been several times and always try and get there during late April/early May. Some places on Crete are very much "party city" in high season - Chania amongst others.
    Nice way to secure a discount on your next booking :)
    These youngsters have no manners..............

    Ray
    regular is good!  Any other races planned as yet?
    I was going to say at least the football season is over but the World Cup looms.  Having nodded off a bit during the Cup Final my impression may be a bit distorted but Ashley Young must the luckiest player in the England party to be going to Russia!!!

    Dave 
    that was a good choice of weeks to go to Cornwall.  Are you sure you didn't manage a few runs "just to see over the hill/ round the corner of the bay/check the path - all the excuses I used to use?

    Knee is still giving me grief - I ran up my long time physio who I haven't seen in ages and she replied with her usual Aussie laconic humour - "cor mate - I thought you must be dead :) "
    Sounded funnier in real life ......................
  • SivSiv ✭✭✭
    Hi guys, it's Chouette, though I seem to have lost my logo. Thought I'd pop in and see what's going on. Last time I was here I wasn't over 60 but now, having just turned 66, I guess I qualify for this thread.
  • SivSiv ✭✭✭
    Oh good, the logo is back, though I seem to have changed my user name ... that must have been a while back.
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Hi Siv aka Chouette,
    It is good to hear from you, are you still running? How are the wilds of rural France treating you?

    Picked up a niggle in my arch, not serious but decided to take a few days off just to be safe. I have been doing strides and pickups so not really surprised.
    I'm  off to my art group instead of the gym this morning, more naked ladies but it is all in the name of art.
    Mick
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