Shades Marathon Training

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  • Dartmoor Discovery

    England's UK's longest UK single lap race.

    50 mile road other than Comrades doesn't appeal to me, but will play on my mind now!  Also appeals that in August you'll probably get highs of 7c in Scotland.

  • Totally agree with all that been said about runners throwing their rubbish just anywhere. I think people believe as it is on a course then it doesn't matter they just have no thought that it is where people still have to live after the race has finished or the race is in an area of natural beauty.

    Steve- thanks for that, yeah that's exactly what the guys at work who run ultras have said.

    As it now looks like I'm on the list for next year's DD I suppose I better find out if I can get that time off work and make plans.

    Shades/Robert- not really looked into ultras up here in Scotland however I am aware of a 55 mile one from Glasgow to Edinburgh. I believe it's in March time and is run on the cycle path network away from the main roads that runs between both places. 


  • Good luck and safe running to all who has events this weekend 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - ha, ha! :D   Scotland in August should be good weather, steven will have to confirm if that's past the midge season!

    steven - usually first Saturday in June, so 1st June next year, you'll need a day to travel down.  You can fly to Exeter, I'll pick you up from the airport :) 

    Don't want to worry Big G but there's a riot at Dartmoor Prison and some prisoners on the roof.   This year DD is back to original route which goes past the Prison.  Perhaps race will have to revert to shorter route if prisoners aren't down by then.   

    https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/incident-dartmoor-prison-live-updates-1631765
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    steven - Keith Stuart posts on here now and then, he has done the Glasgow to Edinburgh race.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-maybe the prisoners have heard Big G is doing DD so they want a good view of it.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Will the prisoners be serving porridge to the runners?  :)  

    Well, I'm up and had brekkie.  Trotters team photo is happening at 9am (31 of us) so I would like to get there for that, with the race starting at 9:30am.

    Shades, regarding that single loop Scottish race, I'll drop it into conversation with Chair at the next committee meeting to see what he says :)  

    I'm nervous.  I just want to get going now and hopefully get to Ashburton (half marathon) feeling good, which is where the fun (i.e., uphills) starts ;)  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I'm just back from a short run and conditions are perfect, the humidity has gone.   Have a brilliant day.

    I'm afraid Chair doesn't know much about ultras, he once deeply offended Phil Hampton when discussing the cups that are awarded and he said 'who is John Tarrant anyway?'. Since then I saw a piece in the Trotter about John Tarrant, I think it was Julian who wrote it.


    Lovely morning, saw a deer on the road and we both stopped and looked at each other for a while before she ran off.   The swans who so nearly lost their nest in the last floods were proudly showing off 3 tiny cygnets this morning down at the quay.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Incidentally the 2 prisoners on the roof at Dartmoor Prison were talked down, no injuries to staff or prisoners.

    The press were informed of the incident by an inmate who called on his mobile phone :o
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    You'd be amazed what they can smuggle in.

    Yesterday was a rest day (had a little walk, then went out later to meet an American friend for sushi as she was passing through London on her way to somewhere else). I wasn't liking how my calf was feeling so I mashed a ball into it and did my best to stretch it out.

    I decided to risk parkrun anyway because I'm stupid like that, and surprised myself with a course PB despite it being warm and humid and me being sleep-deprived and only two weeks post-marathon (the lime green Liverpool shirt had its parkrun debut). Time was 25:47, so 5 seconds up on the time I set in Autumn '16. I only got under 27 once in '17 so this is good.

    My splits did slow a little but I started further forward than I am supposed to (Tooting being a very congested parkrun - you can lose 20-30 seconds on the first lap if you start further back) so I sprinted off at the start and the reined it in once I got onto the wider path.

    Because I'm a glutton for punishment, I went to hot inferno pilates at 12, which was tough and very, very sweaty. I normally do the flow class in the afternoon but I want to watch the Derby, so...yeah.

    If my calf/achilles are OK tomorrow I'll do a longish run before I head up to Manchester for Monday's daytrip to Blackpool. Hoping for some fish and chips!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Hopefully Big G is finishing any time now.
    19.5 miles today for me,wasn't sure how far to do so went for 18,then had to detour because of flooding so ended up with a bit further.Pretty heavy rain for the first hour then clear after that.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Well, not sure what to say really, except what an awesome event!

    I suppose I should try and elaborate!

    I got the race HQ in plenty of time to get myself sorted out, and the race started more or less on time.  I was running with a clubmate for the first few miles (also a newbie) but eventually I left him and for the majority of the race I was running on my own, but still people around or near me.  For much of the race, I was overtaking – or getting overtaken – the same few runners, so there was a bit of camaraderie there.

    I don’t know my exact splits yet (not yet published) but I think I got through Half marathon in about 2:01 so slightly slower than I envisaged, but I wasn’t bothered.  I was feeling good, and in the back of my mind I knew that three of my clubmates had gone off what I thought was too quickly, so I kind of hoped I’d catch them up a bit later.  I won’t mention names, but I overtook one of them on the first big hill (and didn’t seem him again), and the other two at about 17-miles.  I haven’t seen the finish times, but I believe I finished quite a bit in front of them at the finish, so I was happy with that really.  Having said that, a lady Trotter had an absolute belting run, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she finished 15+mins ahead of me, although we were together at 13 miles.  She had an amazing run.

    Anyway, the strategy from the start was to walk the hills, as I know I am a quick walker, although from about 20-miles I was struggling a bit to calculate what “a hill” was, and probably did walk a few parts that would really be considered “slopes” (although possibly hills anywhere else!).  I did have a rough patch at about 20-miles where I was feeling sick – I think I had too many Jelly Babies – but a few miles later that had passed.  Also at around this time I did feel a slight twinge in my right knee, but that went as quickly as it came, and didn’t bother me again.

    The whole course is very nice and I was trying to take it all in – plenty of cows, horses, ponies, sheep etc.  I haven’t actually driven the whole course before so it was nice for me to run on roads I’ve never been on, although some of the narrow roads did have some idiot drivers on, but I won’t say any more about them!

    I think for me, a massive highlight was knowing a lot of the marshals as they’re club mates - I have never ran a race where I knew so many people on the course, which was really nice.

    I was conscious of the cut offs, although I knew I was okay, barring injury.  I don’t know what time I went through the 20-mile cut off, but I went though the marathon point at around 4:30, so in my mind I knew I was totally fine for the 29-mile cut off, which was 5:48.  I ended up going through there in around 5:05, and it was a weight off my mind then as I knew, even if I had to walk the rest, I’d get a finish time.

    I came to the bit where usually the 32-mile route turns left, but this year we had to go straight on, and that but was steep, but again plenty of support.  I did actually get a bit emotional when I saw the “2-miles to go” sign.  Not blubbing, but I just knew then I was going to finish it, which was a great feeling.  The last mile is essentially down hill and the support there was fantastic.  Over the years, I’ve seen so many people finish this race, and this year I was one of them – I think I had a massive grin on my face, although my this point I wasn’t running that quickly.

    I came down towards the finish straight and Skins was on the PA and he called out my name, and I stopped for a bit to shake his hand, and then carried on and I’d done it.  I’m not sure of my official time, but my Garmin says 6:06:30, for 34.35miles with 3947ft of elevation. 

    I'm delighted with that as my number one goal was to finish and I’ve done that so I’m over the moon.  In my mind I was kind of hoping for between 6 and 6.5hrs, and I’ve done that so I’m happy.  I did that flat 33miles in 6:03 a few weeks ago so compared to that I have to be pleased, although I was nursing an injury there and it was muddy.  But yeah, I’m delighted with the time, although really the time kind of feels irrelevant in a strange way.  I just wanted to finish it, and of course enjoy it, which I feel I’ve done.

    One thing I hadn’t really understood before today is that walking the up hills is a kind of recovery.  They’re unrunnable anyway, so I just used to them walk quickly (I probably made up a large number of places on the hills!) and take fluids on.  Speaking of which, I got my food a bit wrong – I just couldn’t stomach my cheese sarnies, but I had taken a fruit and nut mix, and that was very nice and kept me going.

    The finish area was amazing – soup, tea, cake, sarnies – which all went down a treat.  I was feeling a bit groggy though and I’m afraid I left fairly early to get home and get my feet up, have fish and chips etc.   A shame I missed the disco, but I just didn’t fancy it.

    I think a few missed the cut off.  Ruth missed it again (Shades, you ran with her a couple of years ago), which is a real shame.  Obviously the 29-mile cut off rather than the marathon cut off makes it harder really, as you have to do the average required for longer (the average required hadn’t changed).

    But yes, an awesome event.  Shades, you’d better stick me on the list for next year!

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Fantastic job, Big G! And whoa at that elevation... I measured Liverpool at 238 and thought that was hilly. :/
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Thanks Cal.  My Liverpool came out at 1200ft, but yeah Liverpool is nothing in comparison.  Here's the route profile.  The downhill slope bit before 20-miles was also unrunnable for me - too steep!!


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Amazing run and a great report,looking at your elevation on Strava has made me realise how much hill training I'll need to put in.
  • Big G- a huge well done and a great effort. Loved reading that report. That elevation sure does look terrifying so again well done.

    Shades- thanks for the offer and after reading Big G report I think I will definitely be taking you up on that offer.

    Ian- totally in the same boat as you as in how much hill training I will need to start doing.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    It looks horrendous! :s
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, I was really worried that I hadn't done enough hills in training.  I had a really good patch around Feb but really nothing since then.  I have done a few events in the lead up so I don't know if that helped me or not (it can't have hurt, I suppose!) and being realistic about what was runnable and what was not, helped me on the day.  Also, that 33-miler I did was a nice confidence boost for me as I knew the distance wasn't a problem, but the hills were the unknown.  When I prepare for next year I'll definitely try and do more hills, but I did say that this year as well!  It's not that I avoided hills but I didn't really seek them out in training, if that makes sense,

    Thanks Steven, I enjoy writing these reports!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    My official time was 6:06:22, and I finished in 91st position out of 176 finishers and 210 starters (there were 252 on the starting list).  My race number was 91 too, so I like the symmetry of that :)  I think this year really was about finishing it, and enjoying it for me, so maybe next year if the conditions are good again I can think about trying to get a better time, but I'll decide that much nearer the time!  But I'm still very happy with how it went yesterday. 

    I saw the last runners over the line yesterday, but see two Trotters haven't got finish times unless the results are still being processed.  They must have just chosen to run on at the cut off I suppose, although they still had their numbers on.

    There's another thing I want to say about this race, as I know there are obviously a lot of people on here that are hoping to do it.  I know it's my club that organise it, but I have to say that it's exceptionally well organised from a runners point of view.  Small things, but they move the bags the 400m from the race registration to the finish area where the showers are, so runners don't have to go back down the hill to get them.  I was worried a bit about recognising my food drops, but there were signs up saying the mileage and number of the food station.  The food at the end is absolutely amazing and caters for all tastes whether a runner fancies water, tea, different cake, rice pudding (yuck!), soup, etc.  Free massage at the end.  Friendly marshals.  Well signed with arrows/signs on the side of the road, but also small direction arrows painted on the road at junctions.  I could go on and on, but I think these small things all add up to make it a great experience for the runners, as well as the course itself of course - everything is taken care of as best as possible, so all we have to do is run!

    I'm quite tired, but hardly got any sleep.  Restless legs, and I feel very hot (I'm not sunburnt), although I've had plenty of fluids.  Very hungry too!  I'm going to attempt some kind of recovery shuffle/run/walk a bit later.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big_G said:


    But yes, an awesome event.  Shades, you’d better stick me on the list for next year!

    YES!!!!

    I am so pleased that you had such a good race and did so well as I feel somewhat responsible for nudging you to the start line.  ;)  I think DD is one of those events that no matter if you know/drive the course, train like an Olympian and have the perfect preparation, nothing quite prepares you for how tough and beautiful the race is.

    Great report too.  Pity about the sandwiches, but at least you tried.  You'll have to try something else next time.

    I struggle to run that downhill at 20 miles too into Widdicombe, one year a farmer was bringing a herd of cows up that hill as we were trying to run down.

    Now if you're going to do a recovery run go now, by this afternoon/evening you will be walking like John Wayne and wishing you lived in a bungalow. :'( 


    steven - hope you can get that time off work booked for next year.   

    Ian - if you decide to fly to Exeter can pick you up from there too, and anyone else that needs transport.

    Cal - I hope you'll join us too for DD next year.  As Big G says the race is organised superbly, everything a runner could need is catered for.


    Lovely morning, had a most enjoyable run, got quite close to a big buzzard.



  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - really sorry to hear Ruth didn't make the cut off again, she will be upset with that.   Next year I'm assuming the cut off will go back to marathon point which should be easier for her.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Shades, I did a run first thing.  Just 3.3 miles and it was slow and steady, with a couple of walk breaks, but it wasn't too bad.

    Yeah, it was a bit odd about the cheese sarnies as I often crave them.  I wonder if maybe eating too many jelly babies just made me not fancy the sandwiches, but I had left a fruit and nut mix at 4 stations as well, and that is what I ate.  There were people out there with oranges and water melon and I had some of that too, which I think along with my electrolyte worked okay for me fortunately.

    Just putting it out there this early but maybe a sub-5:30 would be a goal for next year for the 32-mile version, depending on training and weather etc etc.  If I could get to marathon point in 4hrs-ish, I'd be in with a shout I think.  But I need to do more hills.  The lady Trotter I mentioned finished nearly 30mins ahead of me although we went through Half marathon close to each other.  She just took off on the hills!  But one of the other men finished 35mins behind me and he went through the Half point ahead of me....don't know if he had an issue, but that must have been a horrid last 20-miles for him!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - congrats on the recovery run, there won't be many DD runners doing that today.   But the DOMS will come, especially in the quads, that's the downhills that cause the quad pain.

    Great that you're already planning for next year.  Yes, sub 5:30 an achievable goal.  

    I assume that as you (or anyone else) mentioned the weather that conditions were perfect.

    Re the hills, you're fine on the steep ones that require walking and or run/walk only.    The rest of the course is undulating  with some rolling hills so maybe that's what you need to work on.   But I take it you had no cramp problems so that's really good for such a tough course.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Not that I'm not tempted Shades, (it sounds wonderful and horrifying at the same time), but after my friend talked me into Liverpool again, I realise there's only a week between them next year (assuming DD will be the first weekend in June). I'll have to see whether my ability to recover improves.

    Which brings me to today's run. I'd had an idea to run 12, but soon as I started I knew that was unlikely. Between my crap sleep and yesterday's exertions, my legs felt heavy, my niggles were niggly and I felt all-round crap. I finished Manchester with more energy than I ran that first mile. I almost canned it at 6 miles but the weather was so gorgeous (sun, pretty wisps of cloud, a little humid but with a bit of a breeze too) I was enjoying being outdoors so I pushed on for another mile and then ended up doing 11. Highlight was watching a screeching jay chase a fox into the trees. My achilles is a bit ticked off but I have two days off now as I'm going up to Manchester later today for tomorrow's Blackpool trip. I usually sleep well up there, which should help.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    We were very lucky with the weather.  It was a bit warm in Ashburton but other than that I'd say it was good running conditions.  Yes, I had no cramps either, so that makes me think the electrolytes probably did what they were supposed to, which is good.  Yeah, it could be the rolling hills that I need to work on - in that 4-mile section through Postbridge, which starts around 26.5 miles and really should be runnable, I was struggling a bit and 3 or 4 people did go past me on that section.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I didn't realise that Liverpool had moved to the BH weekend.  :(    Can you get a refund on Liverpool? ;)  

    Big G - it always feels warm and a bit muggy when you hit Ashburton, sometimes it can be as much as 10 degrees warmer there than the top of the moor.

    I think you did very well pace wise.


    You could always come to Connemara with me next year, good DD training....not that it did me much good this year.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    No refunds. But I promised my marathon-shy friend I'd accompany him so that's the reason I put myself in for it again (despite saying I wouldn't). Ah.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal Jones said:
    No refunds. But I promised my marathon-shy friend I'd accompany him so that's the reason I put myself in for it again (despite saying I wouldn't). Ah.
    You can always do both :)   All my best DD times are when I've run a marathon 5 or 6 days before DD 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I'll have to see how it goes. :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, for what it's worth, I was really considering Dorchester marathon the week before DD, and then just going easy the few days before DD, but then I booked that trip to Italy so didn't do it.  I think we can recover quicker than a lot of the training plans and experts say we can.  Maybe if you go eyeballs out at Liverpool that may not be ideal, but run a race as well as you can without breaking yourself I think is doable, but we're all different of course.  Look at Iain - two ultras in two days.  It is possible.  Not trying to twist your arm or anything like that, but just saying I think these things are possible, but you have to do what is right for you of course.

    I know I overanalyse these things sometimes, but I've been wondering if the reason I had such a bad run at Liverpool is that I wasn't really "focussed" on it.  I.E., I told myself I wanted to enjoy it and have a good run, and maybe I just kind of assumed that would happen, almost forgetting that the marathon is a long way.  Possibly I broke my own rule and didn't respect the distance, whereas with DD I was so focussed on it, so ended up enjoying it and having a good race.  Or Liverpool could just have been an off day I suppose....  Don't know.  
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