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Shades Marathon Training
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Fishing, that's great, you could catch your lunch too
I see AH has announced his marathon now, 1st December, no details if it's permitted or not, or even insured, he'll need to sort that if he wants members or wannabes from 100MC to enter but he could be permitting the race through Tavistock club. I expect it's off road. Can't take a car to the start. Entries via Active, can't believe he would use them! After the race he's getting married.
https://www.active.com/tavistock-devon/running/distance-running-races/wedding-run-2018
I went out at 5:30 today and for the first 5 miles it was actually cold for my hands and arms so getting out early really makes a difference. For August when you're planning your higher mileage training the early mornings should be even cooler so maybe that's what you need to do if we still have this heatwave.
I just heard on the news that the TdeF were pepper sprayed by the French police yesterday! I think today I'll be tempted to watch more than just the highlights.
Robert - we have plenty of races around here too, but they usually clash with my marathons or they're off road. I wouldn't pay the London prices for entry fees, I know not all of the London races are expensive but some are. It's going to take me years and years to get to 100 10k races, then of course there's 10 mile, half marathon, 20 mile and ultra races on the list to do as well.
Jelly - that's a good reason to do Imerys and special to you. Is it very close to DD date?
Ian - glad you had a good long run and better conditions.
10 miles for me today
Shades, interesting about AH's event. I can't imagine I'll do that one - I know many enjoy it, but with it being offroad it's just not my kind of event. I'll have a rough plan for August, but with 3 August marathons in the diary, I think I'll have to play it by ear. I'll probably forget about any speed sessions (apart from maybe "racing" a parkrun), just do what I can mileage wise, and maybe see if I can do a mid week longer run. But I'll have to see how I am regarding tiredness etc.
I saw that about the pepper spray. I think it was used to try and disperse some protestors, but then it went into the riders too. Not ideal!
I agree, stick to increasing the mileage for August, never a good idea to increase mileage and speedwork at the same time. Parkruns or any races can be your speedwork.
I've sketched out 2 high mileage weeks in August too but how many miles I actually do will be down to tiredness, I'm going to clear the decks for those 2 weeks and not have any other committments.
Yes, the French farmers put hay bales to block the TdeF as part of a protest and the pepper spray used by the police drifted into the peloton.
It's years since I've been to Kingsbridge, is it best to drive via A38 or via Totnes?
I've just looked back on my Strava and it's 550ft ascent for the 10k. I remember the first section to be pretty steep in places, but that bit from 2.5 miles to 4.5 is very runnable. Looking forward to it. I did 47:47 last time, so aiming for around that again I suppose!
For info, I've finished the first Ron Hill book and part way through the second. I won't bring the first one to Kingsbridge though, but if okay I'll hand them both back when I've finished them both. I'm enjoying them, although it seems a different world in some ways, the way he talks about his training, and the races he was doing. So many people doing sub-2:20s, with full time jobs etc. I have to say, one thing that has really stood out to me is that he continued running and training quite hard, even with quite a few niggles and chest infections - he did seem to get ill quite often, which I wasn't expecting or didn't know about. I couldn't help but wonder if he'd do anything different now? Obviously I know nothing about what he was doing as it's a totally different league to me, but I can't help but think he was getting ill a lot because he was just pushing too hard in some ways, or maybe that is what is required to get the results he did? He did introduce periods of active rest, but he still quite often got ill in the heavy training periods. Any thoughts on that?
I'm a member of a sub-3 group (obviously I know I'm not a sub-3 runner, but it's interesting seeing their training) and there was a Q&A session with Mike Gratton recently. He was definitely from the mould of doing his long runs at a steady pace, as was Ron Hill, but they really push themselves hard on the speed work. He also recommends runners looking for sub-3 to run twice a day. Other people say marathoners don't get benefit from running twice a day, but his approach says otherwise. As always, there's no definitive right or wrong is there! I know sometimes (albeit rarely) I just fancy a second run in the day, and looking back at my training and race results I now know that is when I am at my fittest.
The below was the main thing I took away. I know I am in danger of falling into the trap of not doing my hard runs hard enough - I do have the slow runs covered I think, but have kind of forgotten how to "hurt myself" (in a good way) on the hard stuff. Obviously, percentage wise for him, 1min/mile slower is significant at his pace. He also raced a lot, as did Ron Hill (basically, every week).
"I seldom ran marathon pace - all my long runs until maybe the last two were about 1min/mile slower (5.45/6min miles). I did a medium long run of 90mins midweek where I may touch marathon pace at the end. I did two track sessions, a hill session and the club 'run around the city walls' probably quicker than threshold most weeks. I also ran regular XC races on a Sat, 4 Kent leagues, County, Inter County, Southern and National Champs. My theory is that most people do their long runs too fast and their speed work too slow and they learn to run in a middling pace. When it comes to a race they don't have the range of paces to cope"
I didn't realise you were running the 10k this year as you have your marathon double this weekend. The Ashburton 10k was 574ft of climb, I was expecting this one to be a fair bit less, I might have to work a bit harder for a SB after all
If you see me in the car park I have a couple more copies of RW for you.
No rush for the books, they are quite an absorbing read. As you say it was a totally different world then. I think they were the tough men then and they would race several times a week in all weathers with no thought about the conditions. In hindsight many have said that if he had maybe taken the odd rest day he would have done better but who knows, sometimes it feels like he was on a self destruction course yet he was still able to produce stunning results. That fine line between peak performance and injury/illness seems to be where he was a lot of the time. Back then I would think bronchitis/chest infections were common place, no central heating either. They were fiercely competitive, as individuals and for their club teams, and I think that's what made them so highly motivated.
I've met Mike Gratton, nice bloke and he used to have a thread on this forum where he helped and advised runners with their marathon training. I agree with that quote especially about the long run pace.
Re running twice a day, that what the Kenyans do and I've never seen a training schedule of an elite marathon runner where they only ran once a day. I too, when feeling at my fittest enjoy a 2nd run of the day, I have a few planned in August as they will top up my mileage nicely without making me too tired.
In my purple patch year when I did all my last significant PB's I was running at least 2 doubles a week plus racing at the weekends.
Yes, Ron Hill's competitive nature really comes out. On occasion he talks about how in a race another runner will say "guide me in Ron, I'm knackered!" and he occasionally did until the last mile or whatever, and then he left them as he wanted the win, and maybe didn't fully trust the other competitor's motives
Cal, I think that is one thing I could change in my training. Basically give parkrun a good crack more often, whereas a lot of the time I do just run easily around. But again, often with the marathons it's hard getting the balance right, as if I have a marathon on the Sunday I don't feel I really want to "race" a parkrun on the Saturday. It's tricky!
I don't think Ron Hill was the only athlete to be unhappy with the UKA/AAA selectors, nothing has changed there. I see we aren't sending a men's marathon team to Berlin, there is a women's team though, don't know why no men's team.
The traditional way used to be if they wanted to progress for any distance athlete was by doing XC, and you'll still hear Steve Cram etc talking about it. It seems that the XC was the first chance for a promising athlete to compete at a county and national level. The clubs are usually key in what events an athlete does, a good track club will let the youngsters try out different events. These days I think athletes are less willing to try out other events or even different distances.
Was going to give the kitchen a good clean today but have postponed that so I can watch TdeF instead
Shades-I think my club is pretty good in getting the kids to try different events,they constantly seem to be doing different things and it's paying off with a couple of national titles this year.
Easy 10 after work today,felt surprisingly ok after yesterday's 17,promising signs.
So enjoyed watching the TdeF yesterday, kitchen still needs a clean though
No run this morning as I have 10K tonight.
Ian, in the past I feel it's the speedwork that has broken me too, so I know where you're coming from and it's another consideration! When I did my December and February marathon PBs, it was with hardly any speedwork at all.
Cal - that is hot for your flat,
Steve - that's such a shame about NY for this year, but at least that takes the pressure off you worrying about your injury and recovery time. Funny how the tendonitis has flared up now when I think you've probably been doing less training than usual.
I know it's a bit worrying me doing these short races, but I so enjoyed the last one I immediately entered another.
8miles today with last 3 @mp it was warm so I was soaking in sweat by the time I finished.
Shades, yes, it was perfect out there today. I did the longest I've done on it so far with a total of nearly 3-miles and I actually went across the cove for the first time. Really enjoyed it. It was pancake flat though, with hardly any ripples at all, and no wind. Perfect for me really. The times I got a bit over confident are the times I went in
Steve-Gutted for you,keep looking on the positive side and hopefully back to it soon.
Big g/Shades-Good luck tonight.
Done 10k myself today,fancied an easier day after 27 the last 2 days.
Glad I'm not near York or id be boycotting this race
http://www.yorkacornrunningclub.org.uk/Millennium_Bridge_Race.php
Had a quick look at PO10 and there's a 60 male who's gone 17:16 his year and a female 50 who's gone sub 18 yet they'd both be barred from the "faster race"for being too old!!!
Ian - I agree that race at York is insulting to good older runners, very odd way of organising a race.
Big G - you must be getting better now you can take photos from your SUP without falling in
Well done last night, that's a great time on that course, I looked at the results when I finished.
I found last night's 10km really hard, think I misjudged my pace as wasn't expecting any significant hills once we'd got to the top, especially that one at 8km. Finished in 1:08, sneaked a season's best by about 40 seconds. The winning times were about the same as the last 10km I did and I would say they are equally hard. But a lovely race, stunning views, quiet roads, only had 2 cars on the road for the whole route and great atmosphere. Lovely t-shirt but just missed out on the small size and the medium is huge so sadly into the recycling bin. Would do it again, even though it was hard.
Shades, glad you enjoyed it. It's a tough course, but as you say it's a great race. They changed the course very slightly as this year at the finish we came in the back of the park, whereas when I did it in 2016 we came back along the main road and in the front of the park. It's more or less the same course though, and similar elevation. Well done on the season's best! The winner of the East Allington race did very well last night too (not sure if he won or not - I'll check when the results are out), and me and him were talking about what was the hardest between those races. There's not a lot in it in terms of elevation, but the thing with East Allington is that the finish is uphill which is tough at the end of the race.
I was pleased with how I ran it as I ran really well on the undulations, downhills and flat bits - I felt really strong on those. But I struggled on the uphills again, and was about 40-secs slower overall than 2016. There was one chap who must have put 15-seconds into me on the main last hill. I beat my club mate though, which was the main thing
My car was cool when I returned to it as luckily under some big trees.
I must do the East Allington race next year
Just as well you're away this weekend, one of the South Devon runners told me that quite possible that your usual parkrun will be cancelled this weekend as travellers have moved onto the site
Good luck for your double at the weekend and Iain doing the anchor leg of the Outlaw and anyone else racing this weekend.
Just back from shopping, very humid but it's started to rain
Cal-I think the idea of separate races by time is great,esp if the course is tight but cannot understand the age side of splitting,surely if you're sub 22 it doesn't matter about your age you should be in the sub 22 race?The only thing that came into my head was,does race insurance get you to state the age of competitors so that's why they do it?
Very hot here today,did just over 7 but really hard,over 20 sec/mile slower than my usual easy pace,gets me my 40 for the week though as I don't think I'll be running over the weekend.
I'm not too bothered about the race shirt they are a lovely colour though, I have plenty shirts.
Ian - no, race insurance doesn't require age of runners to be stated. Race insurance doesn't cover runners for any accident/injury anyway, the insurance is for public liability etc., that's why we all sign/agree to the disclaimers.
I think they're being elitist here and want to keep the 'fast race' open for faster runners as they don't want the race to fill up with slower runners or beginners, they should be ashamed of themselves if that's the reason.
Hot weather now up with you Ian
Just entered a half marathon in September and have pencilled in a couple of races in November, one 10 miler and one half.
No kitchen clean today either, important stage of the TdeF to concentrate on
I’m here now though and had a bite to eat, and managed to watch the last half an hour of the TdF.
Cooler and fresher here and hope you've got the same there, you'll probably enjoy a bit of rain during the race. Have a good run.
I recorded TdeF and haven't finished watching it, tried to avoid the result but accidently heard it. Will still watch the rest of yesterday and only watch the highlights of the individual time trial which I don't enjoy so much.
Nice breeze here and was quite fresh for my run, feels a lot better.