Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • I don't think it can be understated just how much mental resolve and determination it can take to spend 5 hours cycling indoors. To put it into context, the most I've ever managed is 2:15. I find it difficult to watch TV whilst on a turbo though. I guess it helps at a comfortable effort level but still.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Pretty extreme. But it takes all sorts. The beauty of no risks car wise must help no end
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    Ugh, it's that time of year when Datchet start getting super-excited about XC. I think it makes folks feel like proper runners or something. I think that's why folks also go to the track on a Monday when they should be recovering from hard efforts at the weekend.

    I'll admit that I'm almost too ashamed to post my crap on here after those Euros performances. That was proper running chaps. In awe....

    Reg - did you say that Windsor is a club champs event for your lot? Do you have a team strong enough to take home the team prize? We're struggling this year, even I might have to score.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    So my promised read back and response to what other people have been up to never came to pass.

    However, a belated happy birthday to PMJ, and well done to everyone else on your various racing.  SG's Gosport jaunts sounded fun, might show up to one next year.

    Dean, your silver medal was cracking in the circumstances.  I wasn't aware of your illness when I saw you in the heats on the Saturday (in fact you shook my hand you bastard, whilst recounting another time when someone ill had shaken your hand pre-race), but your kick in those heats certainly didn't resemble what I had seen you do in videos of previous such races.  I put it down to you being confident it was enough to qualify (which it certainly was).  I've raced against Mark S before, as he's in my XC league - in fact I think I first encountered him when he was part of my pack at the Wokingham Half when I first broke 75 in 2013 - and don't remember a ferocious kick, but then maybe we never finished close enough for me to experience it.  Certainly his 800 capabilities indicate some speed.  You had a huge amount to contend with in the circumstances and should be really pleased with world silver.

    Simon, you were in the position I find myself in every championship race of any kind - knowing there are better kickers in the race and at the same time not quite trusting yourself to go out and run the legs off them.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and who knows whether blasting it could have snuck you a medal, or could have resulted in you finishing way down the field.  Still, once again, let's remember that this is 6th in the world championships, so a great performance nevertheless.

    Oh yes, and welcome to all the new people.  Keep posting!  I noticed a few saying they're not fast enough to regularly post.  Nonsense!  There are no qualifying times to this thread - just a relatively serious approach to training, and/or a relatively non-serious approach to pisstaking.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    So, race report, the Southern Road Relays.  Always one of my favourite events of the year.  I've been on a mission to one day put together a team strong enough to get top 25 and Nationals qualification.  That's not easy, as SG alludes, the quality is spread among more teams, so you get B teams like AFD or Tonbridge consisting of bloody excellent runners as well as all the A teams.  Our men's team is now arguably the best it's ever been, and for once I managed to put together an A team featuring pretty much all of our strongest runners plus a B team with some pretty handy guys in it as well.  We had a vets team, but I'd prioritised qualification for the seniors rather than a vets medal this year, so that meant our fastest two V40s running for the seniors with one of them (me) then doing an additional leg on tired legs for the V40s.

    However, since coming back from Malaga, I've been suffering with a heavy cold, which meant no running Thursday or Friday and feeling distinctly dodgy.  Had it not been a team thing, I wouldn't have raced, but I still felt like I could do a job.

    Text message 2 hours before the start also informed me one of our fastest runners had pulled out.  Some last minute shuffling and I'm glad that I brought a B team with some good runners in it.  Another V40 steps up to run an additional leg.

    Placed myself on leg 1 for the seniors, to give me some time to recover before running leg 4 for the vets.  The start is an utter mess.  There are still changeovers taking place for the women's race which means they wait for a gap, then bring everyone through a metre-wide gap onto the track and then start the race.  But the race starts before half the field have even filed through this gap in the barriers (including me) which means people are all over the place, going over hurdles, bashing barriers out of the way etc to get started.  All this chaos means I am denied what I hoped would be the hilarious spectacle of our B team Leg 1 runner, a notoriously suicidal starter, mixing it at the front with some of the best runners in the country for 200 metres - unfortunately he's still behind the barriers.

    I'm way back in the field now, but I have someone I can see some way ahead to chase.  It's Simon Coombes!  I hurry to get up to him.  It takes me about a kilometre to be behind him, and then I sit there and hang on, without making my presence felt.  The uphill is where I truly feel the effects of the illness, usually I pass people on the uphills, but my lungs are bursting and I lose places.  Downhill feels much better.  Lap 1 passes in a flash, and would hope my strength would pay off on lap 2, but I can't make the kind of headway I would expect.  Get past Simon, but some of the people around are people I would expect to be ahead of.  Manage to take a place in a sprint finish for 19:06, 55th on my leg.  Feel bloody awful.  However, looking at the times afterwards, I'm quite pleased, as I knew I was well off-colour and feared it might be considerably worse.  I reckon I was probably 30 seconds down on what might be considered 'par', so still an OK run in the circumstances and definitely won't be the slowest on the team.

    40 minutes of walking and jogging to keep moving, then it's my second leg for the vets.  We're well out of medal contention, so it's low pressure.  I start slow and work my way into it.  First lap, Leg 4 runners on their second lap are screaming past, but I try not to be put off.  I increase the pace on lap 2, and this stops happening, and end up with an OK-ish 20:38.  Definitely have had enough by the time I finish that one.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    And to extend on Dach's last posts - we do like lurkers outing themselves.
    Especially of the female persuasion. We haven't had a regular since Lit or Curly.  (and before anyone does it....don't!)

    Wool - those mondays are particularly ill advised, with people often doing both a weekend race, and the Tuesday session on top. It's like trying to get fast on the glamour, none of the building over weeks with consistent mileage, but just smashing every run.

    Chuck in a couple of fast guys, and the sessions move away from sensible consistent reps in line with your own paces, and become a smashfest. I saw Sean finish a session the other week with a 70sec 400!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    2 legs Dachs? That's just showing off son.
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    In terms of the senior team result, our Leg 2 runner had an absolute stormer, taking a massive 25 places back and running 18:28.  He's run fast times in the past, but surprised himself and everyone else with that.  We are 32nd after leg 3, but I know the tendency of other teams to front-load their talent will see us rise.  Leg 4 is our top man, but he ran Berlin last week.  He still manages 18:32.  Young people eh. This sees us into 26th as far as we can count, the first time in the race we are in qualification contention.  Leg 5 takes another position and we're in 25th, but despite leg 6 (promoted from the Bs) having a storming run in 19:36, we're back in 26th by the end of the race.

    There then follows confusion.  My clubmate assures me that C teams can't qualify for the Nationals, and Tonbridge C were ahead.  But I have not seen anything like that written down.

    Then the official results come out and we are 25th!  Yes!  South London Harriers seem to have been DQed.  Looking at the results, I suspect someone forgot to wear a chip.  Time looks legit though, so there may be a case for a reinstatement. 

    Shortly after, the e-mail comes out and clarifies that the top 25 A teams qualify, all B teams in the top 25 as well, but no C teams.  Therefore the ifs and buts are no longer relevant, and we, as 20th A team, are in!

    Even if my own performance was (understandably) not great, I am delighted with this.  Our club has never qualified for the nationals before.  Whilst we had a decent men's team back in the 90s, when I joined in 2011 it was pretty rare that anyone broke 35 minutes for 10K.  When people got faster, they often moved to the local AC.  The focus very much seemed to be on inclusivity and not on the top end.  I, and others, have worked quite hard to change that perception and make the club an option for faster people to be part of, and to get those faster people to turn out for events like this, and finally it seems to be paying off.

    On that last note, SG, I note Rob's comments regarding Datchet being 'shown up', but it doesn't seem a reason not to take part.  We spent a long time finishing in the 50s and 60s, but we got there.  If a fast runner wants to join you, the fact you take part in events like this may make a difference.  I know at least one of our runners yesterday would be unlikely to have joined first claim without the carrot of a decent relay team.

    Anyway, after all that, I have Chester marathon the weekend of the nationals and can't make it.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Good result Dachs!
    But that last line is an all too oft bane of the relay/xc team! People pishing about with marathons! Helped ruin our relay bids last year.

    I think you definitely get a hunger for relays. Last year, we'd done the 12 stage southerns, nationals and that led us to the Vets one too.
    This year, the snow rucked the southerns, we didn't really fancy the nationals anyway, then our 2nd best runner pulled out in the week before, meaning we shelved it. And I think we all knew that the vets one wouldn't happen after that.

    Losing Rob from captain contributed quite a bit I think. Nothing against anyone else, but he's one of the most infectious characters you could ever meet running wise. It almost feels like a sin to say No to his team building. Anyone else is pretty easy in comparison.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    with your ability to soak up miles with ease SG you should really pish about with a marathon yourself at some point before you are too decrepit. I think you might find the whole process of planning the prep and executing the race quite addictive. Seriously, I can really see it suiting you.

    Great performance there by Reading Dachs. And great performance by yourself - getting several groups of blokes in one place to represent is a feat in itself, to run well and to qualify is something else.

  • Wool said:

    Reg - did you say that Windsor is a club champs event for your lot? Do you have a team strong enough to take home the team prize? We're struggling this year, even I might have to score.

    Yes, it's our club HM championships. Nobody will even be aware there is a team competition, including me. I don't think there'll be many running, maybe 10 at most, nobody insider 1:30. Well I might depending on how I feel.

    Wool, we've been banging the SG do a marathon drum for a long time. I'm pretty sure he'd be able to run sub 2:40 and maybe gives the marathon too much respect.

    Nice relay effort Dachs. Nice to hear about the local boys doing well. Incidentally RRR have stolen one of our better runners because his membership had lapsed when he joined RRR, he should have joined second claim.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    You all want me to suffer a catastrophic soul destroying collapse, for the entertainment of the inevitable report, that's why :)

    That 20miler club run last March was enough of a taster I think. 
  • Matthew HeadMatthew Head ✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    I'd hate to think how long the marathon report would be, would take as long to read as to run!

    Always fancied a bit of relay action myself - not even sure if Cornwall AC had a team at the southerns? If that's the one we'd be in? Shows how much I know, eh!

    Back on it the past week. Ended on just over 40mi with a long run yesterday of just under 12mi. Pleased with that, although not rip-roaring pace, gotta start somewhere.
    Inevitable downside is that I had pretty bad cramp in my calf overnight - found it was runnable this evening, but booked in for some magic thumb work tomorrow just in case.
  • It'd only be long if there were parking difficulties beforehand Matt :smile:

    Good relaying chaps. What's that about a "relatively serious approach to training" though Dachs? Best get my coat of late then :smile:

    Wool - don't give those Malaga boys too much credit - after all, they only had to run a  short distance :wink:

    JB - by "5 hours on stationary trainer" you mean some sort of indoor bike rather than just sitting on a  running shoe that aint moving :smiley: Bonkers, but just about understandable! 

    Taste of what's to come today - needed gloves for my early run and just about dark by the time I got back tonight. Hey ho - at least it's still dry for now (weekend just gone excepted!)
  • Dachs said:

    Dean, I wasn't aware of your illness when I saw you in the heats on the Saturday (in fact you shook my hand you bastard)

    Dachs said:.

    However, since coming back from Malaga, I've been suffering with a heavy cold, 

    Not connected honest 🤔  

    I remember telling that story but I had used hand sanitiser I promise
  • Actually...I had a heavy cold too. Well actually mine was a dodgy pint ;)

    Herne Hill seniors ended up 17th, slowest slightly slower than me, fastest 17.49, another sub 18. So may not get in the team anyway, or be the runt of the litter. 

    SG- interesting synopsis of how Dachet approached the relays around other events. Can see why, but personally a bit frustrating, or perhaps if i was team manager I’d be frustrated at people putting road races over xc or relays. I’d say stick the xc and relays in the calendar, and do the road race on the Sunday morning too if it clashes. Yeah I know, too old school ;)

    Oh and don’t get me started about folk not doing xc because of doing road races or marathons. I mean, you wouldn’t have caught any of the greats doing xc! Hang on :) 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    My old club has plenty of those whose running is track in summer, XC winter & road relays in between.

    Just look at PO10. Hardly a road race in sight.

    As for the marathon. One year a whole group set out to get it off the list. It was the only way to stop the incessant questions about it.

    So there's now a list of Harrow runners with just one marathon to their names. Ironic that another Harrow runner Chris Finill has a world record for the things.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Anyone can run a marathon. How much damage is inflicted is dependent on if the runner can cope with the concept of drinking. 

    SG, how much did you drink on the 20 miler? I'm doing a litre every ten miles to stay on top of it.
  • Yeah Ric, probably had my fill of marathon stuff tbh. Once Chester and Frankfurt are done then there’s a few months of bliss before the London build up starts again. Can’t wait. Although it is a cracking piss up ;)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Obvs tonneloads Ric, so much that we had to go peepee every 400metres ;)

    40mins at threshold, adjusted pace aim 6.06 today then.

    Pretty much the sort of session I always quoted as a MP one back in the Moz days.
    Should have quoted that as a "Threshold" session all that time ;)

    6.06 allows 1.31 lapping, so aimed for a round 1.30, but came out
    1.31x1, 1.30x2,1.29x17,1.28x6, 1.27x1

    the 1.27 being the last lap, and the 1.31 being when battling headfones that didn't wanna stay in.

    Those laps are the starting number, no roundings, as that's what goes to strava, so when you might have 1.29.90 as a 1.29 the overall average was probably 6 dead pace.
    Never "easy" as such, and always a decent workout.
    Duller on the track, but so much more sensible than rampaging across town like the old days!

    We never really look back and realise we're fortunate to be back to a good place, so it's probably worth pointing out it's absolutely excellent to be able to be back to doing whatever a coach issues as a session, when for a long time that and racing looked completely off the cards :)
  • It definitely wasn't the most fun 5 hours of my life, but if I can see the bigger picture I can always struggle through, like I know you guys would in a tough session. Won't be doing too many of those though!

    Enjoyed the relay write-up Dachs. Shame you can't make the nationals, but like others say, this always seem to be the case. It's so tough to get an A team together all at the same time with all the commitments people have. We did it once last year and managed to qualify, but then, like you, no one could actually make the nationals. 

    Here's another vote for SG running a marathon, just for the report alone. Nice session as well.

    I was also on the track this morning after an easy swim + bike yesterday. 'Rolling' miles alternating 10km & Ironman marathon pace, the idea being, the fast reps mess up your legs enough to simulate running on tired legs and then you go straight into 'goal' ironman marathon pace. 

    4 miles - 6:39, 5:41, 6:39, 5:37
    3 miles - 6:40, 5:41, 6:42
    1 miles - 5:36
    All 90s recovery.

    Started off feeling pretty fresh but towards the end legs were started to feel very heavy. Pleased to get through and tick off another session. 
  • Looks like a nice session SG. 

    Joe, your session looks of more interest to me though. You really planning on running quicker than most the pros or did you have license to go a bit quicker on the IMMP?
  • In other news, I just ran 5 days running for the first time in over a year. I've run 6 days in a row a handful of times and I've never run 7 days in a row. Ever.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Reggie, may have misread your post, but are you saying 6.40ish is faster than the pros would do marathons? That's only a 2.55 marathon?

    Or are you picking up Joe as putting 10k and MP the other way round from the order of his reps :) ie 5.40s being his IMMP?

    A good session Joe nonetheless.
    A lot of the game with hard sessions is fancying the current session, and being "glad" it's not xxx upcoming sesh.

    Thursday I'll be glad it's something tastier and shorter. After that i'll be glad it's something slower and longer etc etc, little mental tricks.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps good work on the comeback.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    pps this reduced mileage/higher quality setup is ideal when watching Tuesday night footy games :)  Single short run at lunch Wednesday, easy job :)
  • Reg - I was basically running ironman marathon pace taking into account British conditions. If I was running a race where temps were normal, I'd hope to run a 3 hour marathon. Great to see the comeback coming along nicely. Love it.

    SG - I think Reg was referring to the fact that in Kona, only the very best age-groupers run under 3 hours, because of the heat and humidity. If I have a superb day I'd like to scrape under 3:10 in the marathon section, but that's a stretch goal. The best professional men run 2:40 but most 2:45-2:55. 
  • Did someone say marathon report ? Might have to scrape one together...

    ... but before I get round to that  commiserations to Dean fighting a battle on more than one front in Malaga but still getting the silver and fighting for gold in spite of it all. In fact all of the Malaga Boys deserve congratulations for taking it on.

    Sorry to read that Ric had to pull out of the 20m relay. But it seems running has re-started so that's a positive.

    On the supplements front I read something recently that endurance athletes get an immunity boost from Vitamin C supplements which is not seen in the general population. I'll try to re-google that.

    Stevie G - Good threshold work. When I was fittest I used to do a 5k, 5m, 10k sequence of LT runs. Only really doable in a race environment for me though, so it required stars to align for me to do that sequence. How come the track btw ? Obvs. uninterrupted but won't you find its not quite the effort required on the road ?

    So .. err not the official report which I will post on the Overdone It thread probably (not sure what the etiquette is on these things). The short version is that I went to Hull and back at the weekend and did  the marathon there. The build up was short, with about 5 weeks of increasing mileage to peak at 70 from around 45 mpw. Two long runs of 20m, and a couple of 20m doubles, and generally two days with double digit mileage in the week. The quality running was almost all marathon specific though with a Hanson-ish approach of hard effort 5k (parkrun) the day before a tough and long marathon effort run on the Sunday, buffered by some easy warm up and cool down or recovery miles depending on how I felt.

    Race went well - fast (flat) first half of 1.22.30 but with all the hills in the second part and my lack of endurance I wasn't counting any chickens. I started to cramp up at the first sight of a climb at 15 miles. The glute cramp got worse and at 20 I stopped, fannied about a bit, trying to loosen things off, then set off again. It didn't get much worse and I was able to push on through the next 10k relatively easily for a 2.50.44 finish in 9th and a minor 14s pb. I am down for London 2019 and will put a bit more training in I think !
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Ah, makes sense Joe.
    I guess they are also absolute whizzes on the other parts too!

    Someone like Reggie is a solid earner of such GB triathlete type fare, but some of the geezers I've seen qualify baffle me as they're not very fast at all running wise. I can only imagine they are incredible at the other aspects.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Muddy - i'd say it the other way round. Doing some of these sessions on the road, as well as being a bit unsafe, would probably be too hard an effort for what's needed.
    I discovered that even with the 1.21 lap work I had to do on a slightly undulating road loop avoiding hazards and in slight wind on Saturday! I'll do it if it's what I have, but track these days makes much more sense, for both rhythm and safety.

    I'd reverse the question, and say surely doing tempos in races takes away half the point, as you're naturally tapping into race day adrenaline, rather than soaking up the mental benefit?  Making it far easier than doing it in training alone?
    The only time I would think about it is if i was doing a marathon and needed to do something like 12-14 at MP. That'd make sense in a half marathon, as otherwise that's only tough run alone!

    Each to their own though, and I'll be interested how it translates at the GSR. Absolutely a no-lose, no benchmark at this distance for 6 years, so i only have the 5.54 average from Wokingham half, and how this threshold has gone in comparison.

    That's a very casual 2.50 you've laid down there! Very nice work.
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