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Shades Marathon Training
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Re your club records, surely if it goes to a vote it would be voted on chip times, as so many races are chip timed now.
Big G - I'm not affiliated, I think it's a UKA race, I see they're charging £3 extra for unaffiliated, most races stick to £2. I doubt I'd do anywhere near a PB on that course, I need a nice route for a PB. The Taunton race looks much nicer.
You should be back running, don't let DOMS stop you running, unless you're injured of course.
Amazing how quickly you've clocked up those 20 sub 4's.
Shades any reason for not being affiliated? I haven't bothered this year as I had booked some of my races already. London was my 1st marathon back in 2011 and ballsed it up, did a 20 mile race 6 weeks prior to London in 2.32 which should equate to 3.23ish... i decided to wrap myself up in cotton wall, hardly trained and put on a few lbs. Was walking by mile 10 on race day and finished 4.12.11
Back from run 6.5 miles done and not alot more than a little niggle and a slight twinge in the final mile, hopefully continues improving, and will keep ticking over for Peterborough Half, even if I can't PB if I can improve on 1.37 at WGC the other week I'll be happy
I think I save more money by taking advantage of early bird rates than I would by EA affiliation.
Oh that must have been a painful experience for your first marathon.
Good news on the hip niggle. I'd suggest staying away form any hill work until it's gone completely.
Rob-Not too worried about fitness with racing Sunday,just want it gone so its ok for next week,still tender today so think shades might be right with slight pull,will wait until it's clear before try again.Seen her on Strava saying it was close until the mess up?even with her self adjusted time she was 8 mins behind,that's a lot to lose in 0.2 of a mile.
Nice to see PB next to my name again,been a year since that has moved.
Loch Ness was my 47th marathon/ultra (only two of them are are ultras). All being well, I'm still on for Bruges to be my 50th. There is a query about 2 of them and if they "count" for 100MC purposes, but I've got an email from 100MC Chairman that says they do count - the races weren't published on their site for some reason. I'll send my spreadsheet off, with the email, to see if they can verify the numbers soon after my 50th.
It's quite interesting scanning down the list as the marathon times range from 3:19 (Malta) to 6:59 (LDWA), a few of the races I skip over as they weren't great (Palma and Liverpool being examples), whereas others I've got some good memories (both Londons, Barca, DD, etc). The race times don't really tell the whole story do they - there's more to it than just the times, as you know.
I haven't kept a note of my DNS's but I think I have DNSd in the region of 5 marathons (Brussels, 2xEnigma, 1xPlym Trail, Salisbury) so roughly a 10% DNS rate, which to me seems quite high (not to mention expensive)! Brussels 2015 in particular was very annoying as I was in decent shape then, but I picked up a chest infection.
Your comment about DOMS forced me to get out the door - just 4-miles, and it wasn't especially pleasant, but got it done!
Robert, I honestly think I was capable of sub-4 quite a while before I did it - it became a mental barrier as much as anything. I had a couple of "breakthroughs" last year, the main one being 3:29 at Nottingham on a flat course in December, which was my 18th marathon that year (out of a total of 20 that year). On that one, everything came together on the day (perfect running conditions for me, no injuries/niggles, a fast course with people to chase) and gave me some confidence that what I was doing was working for me. March 2017 was my first sub-4, October 2017 I went under 3:45, December 2017 I went sub-3:30, and then February 2018 I went sub 3:20 (which I have only done once). Even Feb 2018 I didn't really set out for that - on the day I just felt really good so cracked on. I remember overtaking the 3:30-pacers very early on and wondered if I'd live to regret it, but I didn't.
In terms of what I was doing in my training, I was just fairly consistent and doing a fair number steady miles; I peaked at 70 miles (which was a week with no marathons, although I did race a hilly Half that week), and was two weeks before Malta. The majority was around 9:30-10min/miles (sometimes slower if it was hilly), but it enabled me to do more miles a week. I distinctly remember coming back from a hilly long run, ran at 10s, and feeling like I could go out and do it again. I knew then I was in decent shape. I did very little speed work - I really wanted to do more speed work, but I seem to get injured when I do it. I did race a couple of shorter distances, including that hilly Half in early Feb which a) I really enjoyed and b) I did reasonably well at. That was another confidence booster for me and I just knew I was running well. So it was a mixture of consistency, practice at the distance and just having a confidence about me that I knew I was running well that made the jump.
It was London 2017 that got me into running more events. I had gone sub-4 in the March, and then did 4:00:59 at London. People assumed I'd be annoyed with that time, but I wasn't really as I genuinely enjoyed the event and it sparked my interest in doing more marathons. OK, I had ups and downs on the day and another sub-4 would have been the icing on the cake, but I did enjoy it and from there I started booking a few more events and then the 100 became a thing to consider. I've still a long way to go of course and anything can happen, but I can kind of see a route through to doing it now, but I'm not taking anything for granted.
In terms of why my times have stalled, obviously there's diminishing returns anyway. But, I think there's a balance between trying to get quicker and also having an eye on the numbers. Both are important to me and I think both are possible to do, but the balance isn't always that easy to get. For example, I haven't got anywhere near 70-miles in training since February.
Also wondering if my shoes might be to blame. They have 400 miles on them now, and while the Epics are supposed to last for 600, I'm wondering if that's really the case. I never used to worry about wear on my Frees as they're minimal so it made little difference, but these have a lot more sole. Hmm.
Cal glad the achillies are behaving more with the rest, hope the niggles pass or are manageable, I've found icing the areas useful and the odd anti inflammatory.
Ian she is an idiot, she obvs wanted closer to 3 hours and a higher placing, no one else went wrong, its bad luck suck it up and deal with it at London. Ian, you've been running well recently so deserve the PB.
Big G I've had 22 marathons and 2 DNS both Luton although one of them was cancelled due to snow (2011) and the other I wasn't running at the time (2012).
I struggle to run anything slower than 9 min miles on the flat, which I've always wondered if I am training too hard, However I think my training is improving as looking on Strava recently and I'm doing a lot of my runs slower than I was three years ago, I'm a better marathon runner now and am recovering quicker now than I used to. Interesting to see you did little speed training as when I was training for Manchester and NDW I did similar however next year looking forward to some joggers speed sessions and hope see some of my shorter distance times drop and hope it converts to a better marathon time, if not I'll try bulking the distance again and try an October marathon next year.
I'm not too fussed at numbers at the moment as my main focus is a fast Manchester marathon in April however I do enjoy the off road stuff and its a good way to up the ante on the number of marathons without the pressure of time.
Shades, fortunately London wasn't a painful experience as I was fit I just ran when it felt right, was thinking about staying away from hills and test a longer run along the river and back on Saturday instead of parkrun.
Cal, do you have another pair of shoes you can wear for your marathon?
I'm probably going to do Manchester again,I've entered 3 times and not had a great race really,1st was my 1st ever full so was happy to get round in 4:24,2nd time I had a crash which killed my last few miles and this year it was my DNS,maybe 4th time lucky.
Big G-I've only DNS 1 marathon,I'm someone who enters quite late though,so pay a bit more on the entry fee occasionally but less chance of losing the entry fee.
Big G- that’s a great achievement 20 sub 4 hour marathons.
Legs felt good today so went for a 11 mile run today. I damaged one of my toes the other day when I done my 22 mile run. Wore my Brook Ravennas 9 where I had the same issue when I ran Stirling marathon so trying to take my runs easy so not to damage it any further for my next marathon. Have to say I love running in this heat just a shame I’ll be back home on Tuesday.
Big G - sorry I forgot about York, on the list ready for next week's publication.
47, you've done those quite quickly, Bruges will be a nice special to be your 50th. Will you join 100MC then as a wannabe or wait a bit, or not join at all? Re your two slight doubtful races, the fact they're not on the 100MC list is irrelevant, they don't put every eligible race on the list. What they mean is that if it's on the list then there's no doubt about eligibility. Those two races, did they have UKA or ARC permits, they're the ones in Worcestershire. The 100MC chairman does not verify the lists and they can't bend the rules if they've rejected other runner's lists with those events. They used to verify your list pre 100, so that you know that you're OK. I joined at 50 and had my first 50 verified at that time.
Glad you got out for a run, hopefully the legs will be a lot better for it tomorrow
Rotterdam is a good target race for you next year.
Cal - tricky one with the shoes, maybe you can find out if other runners think that the cushioning might not be lasting well for 600 miles. Shoe companies don't usually exaggerate the mileage of a shoe as they like you to buy more pairs, so probably not a figure they chose lightly.
Robert - I did Luton once, truly an awful race, I'd be quite happy to DNS that if I'd accidentally entered it again.
I think I'll probably join as a Wannabe, and if/when I get to 100 I'll join the club as second claim, so I'll still wear my Trotters kit at races, but I'll probably get the 100MC badge and sew it on. I should finish this year between 56 and 58 (i.e., it'll have been between 30 and 32 marathons this year, all being well). If I do a similar amount next year, I can kind of see a path to getting to 100 in 2020 I suppose. I'm jumping way ahead here though - there's a long way to go, but I suppose these things soon mount up.
Foxy has added a Day 3 to his November events, and I'm just contemplating that as my first triple. I've vowed not to go back there next year unless I'm chasing numbers at some point, but as I'm up there for a double anyway in Nov, shall I make it a triple? Hmmmm, not sure!
I just looked at the 100MC list and it's virtually empty except for Foxy's, Traviss's and Phoenix events. Such a shame.
Once you've reached 100 you can wear your 100MC kit for oversea races, should you wish to.
Seems rude not to do Foxy's third race, as you happen to be in the area
RK is quite amusing really. He's done 100 now, but his first ever event is still his PB (something like 4:15). I don't know anyone else who is like that after doing so many events, and he's still only young - 40 years old. Also, I know when we were in Munich a fellow club mate kept him on a short leash to stop him tearing off up the road at the start like he usually does, and he did his best time for ages. You'd think he'd learn! Don't worry, I've said all this to his face a few times...we get on quite well really. He's got big plans for next year though, as he said he's entered a 10-in-10 and a 100-miler, plus a full Ironman for 2020.
Just counted up and I've done 9 marathons,so chester will be my 10th,or Hull was my 10th if I include my ultra.
Cal I agree with shades in regards to the manufactures mileage its in their interest to give a smaller amount than what they could last, however most shoes are at their best between 50-200 miles,
Steven I enjoy the warmer running, going out a few times this week has reminded me how much I hate winter and it's not even that cold yet.
Shades luton sounds awful 3 laps thankfully good news due to some restructuring of the roads stopped it in 2012, only positive is that is was local. Looking forward to Stevenage 2024 for my local road marathon althou FVC is my most local marathon but offroad as part of the route is about a mile from home.
Eventually been shopping for a couple of pairs of shoes not bargain basement price (£115 for the two) but reasonable and the colours okay, have stuck with brooks guides and got some trail shoes as well Peregrines seen a few people talk about them on centurion's page in regards to Wendover Woods so should be okay for xc and next year is I do WW50. With my current shoes it should see me through to end of next year. Just need to get myself a new watch prob opting for Garmin forerunner 235, but will wait for the price drop i'm expecting on black friday time
It's the newer ones that just run what I call the Mickey Mouse events, it's a shame as it's cheapened the sport. Amazing that RK's first marathon is still his PB, he's surely capable of a better time but I expect he was just swept into the Mickey Mouse events where most don't bother to train or put any effort in and the attitude of folk around him has probably rubbed off a bit too.
Great that he's now setting himself new targets and goal events.
The change in the attitude of the newer 100MC members is partly why I left and a decision I've never regretted. Some are now running 50-100 marathons a year but 99% of those marathons they run badly, no training and no effort to do well. I try to prepare and do my best at every race I run. What satisfaction is there to do 500 marathons and have run 490 badly, I don't think that's much of an achievement at all.
Ian - congrats on your 10th marathon/ultra, double figures now.
Robert - Luton used to be a popular as it was the last road marathon of the year and quite a fast course, so for some a good chance to get a good time before the winter set in. I only did it once and it was awful, I have never seen drug dealing before during an event. A friend of mine marshalled it one year and a guy tried to mug him while he was at his marshalling point.
That's a decent price for 2 pairs of good shoes. Glad you like the Guides. I've heard good reports about the Peregrines too.
I'm only using my first pair of Guides for short runs as the heel tab is damaged and I keep thinking that I can't use them much longer but every time I run in them I'm surprised how good the cushioning is, still feels bouncy.
There's a marathon at Bedford, think it's multi lap though at a race track, that's probably not too far from you.
Rest day for me today
No mention of Callum Hawkins, don't know if he's running or not.
I think regarding RK, he gets upset that people don't take his achievements seriously. But I think a lot of runners feel they could do what he's done (possibly unfairly, as all the travelling etc is very tiring), but they just don't want to. Turning up, going off too quickly, and then walking for large parts of an event, week in week out, on the same courses doesn't appeal to some people. Whereas others do the 100 and run a lot of them in decent times (i.e., Chair did the majority under 3:30) - I think a lot of people feel they could't do that, and they do see that as different to how RK did it, and arguably more of an achievement. Again, not speaking out of turn here as he knows this, but he has put weight on which he needs to get off if he wants to do well at these events he has planned. After Munich he did talk about trying to get under 4hrs for a marathon, but again he didn't get anywhere near that in his lead up to his 100th. He tends to be around 5hrs, but I think he did around 4:30 at Munich when he paced it more sensibly. Don't get me wrong as I've walked large parts of 2 or 3 events, but I don't go out planning to do that.
I mentioned the other day that me and Allen T are the only Trotters going for 100 at the moment. I was wrong on that. I was talking to Chris M (he was at Plym Trail and is the RD of Templer 10 - I think I introduced you) and he's actually done 80-something now. He hadn't realised he'd done so many, but he recently had a count up. He's had them validated with 100MC so is now hoping to get into the club some time next year, but it was never a goal for him up until now. He's just done races that he's wanted to do and over the years he's built up quite a large number. He's done MdS a couple of times I think.....!
I've managed to get a couple of Exeter Chiefs tickets for the rugby tomorrow. A friend has two season tickets and can't go, so I'm going with a mate instead. I'm not particularly into rugby league and don't know the teams/players that well, but I've wanted to go for a while, so looking forward to that.
Re RK - It's still exhausting and not cheap travelling to all those events. I might be wrong but he never really looked like he was enjoying himself, so full marks for sticking to his task, it must have been hard. I remember that time at Plym Trail and he seemed to be really miserable that day, was having a tough time.
I expect once the 100 was done he just relaxed and out of the spotlight easy to put on a few pounds. Hopefully now he's got his target events lined up he can start to plan his training.
Yes, I remember Chris M, he was stuck with JK running together to the drink station at 7 miles, I think then he managed to detach himself from JK. Chris M did the double that weekend I think.
Enjoy the rugby, I have a friend who's a devoted fan of the Exeter Chiefs, I think he organises his holidays so he doesn't miss a match.
I picked up the rugby tickets from my mate in Chudleigh so did a run around there. I had planned to do the Chudleigh 5.5-mile race route (part of which is Dartmoor Vale marathon in reverse) but I just wasn't feeling it, so cut it short at just under 4 miles - just really ploddy, and also low on energy. This isn't normal for me as I can still feel Loch Ness in my quads. It's not that painful anymore, but I can still feel it. Hopefully I'll be okay for Sunday.
I'm sure you'll be fine for Sunday, you don't have any hills to deal with so your quads should be fine.
Just started booking my races for 2019. My overspend on this year will have to be recouped next year so only 3 or 4 trips away, all the others will be drive on the day. Including my away trips I can still clock up a potential 16 or 17 marathons/ultras which is about my annual average now.
Probably applies to the other sports tour companies too.
Quite chilly this morning but good running weather, had a lovely run, only 5 miles today.
Shades-thanks for the link,just filled out the form to see what type of price they quote.
I've still got a little niggle deep in the hamstring,it's eased a lot and have to press in to feel it so probably not running again today as I don't want to make it worse and it won't recover before next week,not ideal for chester but at least I'll be well rested.
I wasn't a member of the club before chester last year but this year they have a section by the finish straight on the racecourse called club corner,where 20 selected clubs get their own area to share with own toilets,baggage area and place for spectators so that should make it a little easier.
Glad the hamstring is improving, hopefully it'll be fine for Chester.
So your club is one of the 20 selected clubs, really useful especially with own toilets.
Has anyone ever had a vo2 max or lactate threshold test done in a lab? I have seen you can guess it bit wondered if a proper one is worth it and does it help?