Overdone it?

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  • I had been goaded into entering by an old school friend and his wife, and I met up with them for some chips the evening before, where he was in a very pessimistic state. His hamstring had been giving him grief and he'd done no running for 3 weeks before the race and was optimistically hoping for a 4 hour finish. His wife, 5 hours. I had the MuddyYoungster along for the ride and that meant race day morning held no time for over-thinking things. Up at 7 and straight into the kit, down to the hotel breakfast, quick scrambled eggs on toast and porridge, then off to drop the MuddyYoungster off with the MuddySister. It was only on the drive over to the race start that I got an attack of the 'Oh Shit!'s' and did a bit of quaking in my running shoes. But once there and with the bag dropped off, bumping into my friends, there wasn't much time to fret as we lined up for the start (warm-up was the walk to the start in the park) where thrillingly Jo Pavey was starting us off. With 2 person and 4 person relay teams all involved, there was little chance of figuring out where you were in the field as a significant number burned off into the distance immediately.

    The route does a lap around the park before heading off through the city centre to take in places of historical interest. Exhibit A: my old school yard (now a car park) where my shoes had to pass muster daily. In an amusing throwback one of the lady marshalls shouts 'I like yer trainers' (they were very bright) We then make a circuit through Hull's Old Town then a longer loop around to take us eastwards out of the city centre to encounter a renovated Drypool Bridge.

    N.B This is my favourite running photo ever:  serious air; decorated bridge; old man in flat cap gawping.

    A bit further on DJ Dave is on the wheels of steel brightening up the entrance to a dodgy alley and slightly further along my best mates folks are spectating and hilariously capture their failure to high five me in mobile footage. I'm running to heart rate and joke to my friend's folks that I'm just warming up but we are at mile 5 already and it's time to take a gel. 

    A couple of relay runners go past me on the way to East Park, scene of my fastest parkrun ever, and pancake flat, then we exit through the other side of the park and head west via a circuitous and at times confusing route. More love for my shoes from the lady marshalls ensues and I take it on myself to commend them on their beautiful signposting as I hesitate as to which dingy footpath to take next.  They (the marshalling/support team) are called the Pink and Blues but actually might be better named the Platinum Blondes.  This frankly stinky part of town gives way to the city centre and marina once more for Mile 10 and gel number 2, as we traverse Hull's docklands along the River Humber.



    So far heart rate has been sub-150 and pace is sitting nicely around 6.20 min/mile.  We take a detour out of the docks and back onto one of the main arterial routes out of the city for a short while, before crossing into a park to reach the halfway point (1.22.30), where the shouts from all the waiting relay runners are genuinely thrilling. 


  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    All the undulations are in the latter half of the course, so my half way split is meaningless, as it would be too, if you took into account my lack of endurance. Yes, I do feel somewhat tired now and a small ache is developing in my right glute but I take a bottle of water from a table as volunteers look on blankly and sip from it through the next mile or so. Then begins the long drag up to the Humber Bridge area and my right glute is now waving the white flag. It aches like fuck as mile 15 comes and goes and I do have to slow a bit - the uphill is not really helping pace either. Ah well, I think, time to wind it down to long run pace and just get myself on the Bridge and enjoy the view. 


    "Glute"

    At mile 18 I realise I forgot to take a gel at 15, such was my pre-occupation with my glute, so I take the gel on the Bridge and begin the out and back over the Humber. It feels grim as a lot of it is dragging uphill, then at each end there are these spiral ramps to whirl around, which play havoc around my hips and right IT band. The back across the Bridge section feels twice as long as the out section and it is with massive relief that I encounter the mile 20 marker and take my last gel. The exit ramp off the Bridge really aggravates my glute/hip area again and I approach the water station and decide to stop for a drink and a stretch, feeling a bit dejected in doing so, as my energy levels feel good and my pace hasn't actually dropped off dramatically, despite it feeling much like a Sunday morning run. The Platinum Blonde lady at the station says "Are you real tired love ?" 

    "I've just got a bit of cramp", I reply and I try some self conscious self massage. It seems to help, so I get on my way again and as I speed up I am passed by another chap. Oh well. There's another bit of climbing to get us to the top of a hill around mile 22, then there's a nice downhill section in a contra-flow system. I exchange a high five with my mate as he toils up the hill. 

    (Little was I to know that he was suffering greatly as he'd managed to ..erm.. how can I put this delicately ? .. release a blind otter into the wild)

    The glute issue faded into the back of my mind and the rest of the race was an absolute doddle. Ha, who am I kidding ? No, what actually happened was the glute ached away incessantly but I was buoyed by the idea that it could actually be harder for me to stop running at this point, than to carry on, keeping the chap in front in sight. I stayed within range until around mile 25 where I felt myself creeping closer to him, and then suddenly we were looping round the stadium. I was elated that the end was in sight without any of that utterly drained and exhausted death march feeling one normally has. Although I felt surprisingly good, try as I might, I could not get much closer to the chap in front. About half way round the stadium we were shuttled through a tunnel and emerged at the corner of the football pitch. The finish was over at another corner, with two sides of a football pitch to cover. I thought again about trying to catch the chap in front. My legs twitched into life this time and out of nowhere I managed dredge up some 5k pace to pass him over the final 150 meters to the finish. Jo Pavey was on hand again and was handing out the medals. She is tiny!



    What did I learn this time around ? Strength work matters. I did loads through May/June/July. This undoubtedly helped me given my constrained build up. First I could ramp up mileage without side effects and then it probably prevented a huge collapse in the race. Also, maybe a shorter build up suits me ? I did just two runs that one would consider the archetypal marathon long runs - the 19m race and then a 20m two weeks later. The rest were more around the 15-16 mile level, with a recovery run following in the evening. The race felt consistent - glute aside - and there was no really big hit on pace as the race wore on. I didn't even experience a particularly long and difficult recovery. By the Tuesday afterwards I was moving freely and could manage a reasonable jog.

    No dead bod for me. I may have to whisper this, but I actually enjoyed it !

    Race here: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3036917784
  • Nice report Muddy but why was there an otter in it? I have met Jo Pavey. She didn't strike me as being that tiny but this may be because I am quite short.
  • PeteHewPeteHew ✭✭✭
    Wonderfully well-crafted report, muddy, and worth the long wait!  Please don't explain the otter on a public forum :blush: I'm sure lit is perfectly capable of working it out(!) for herself.
    It was a relief to get to the third and fourth photos and be reassured that at least one of your feet does sometimes touch the ground.  Love the orange outfit - very Johann Cruyff.  Total running!
    Do you think there is any link between your glute issue and all the strength training?  Too little or too much?  I would be interested to know your single leg exercise programme as my left leg is noticeably weaker than my right and is always the one to give me injury problems.

    Hope the Yorkshire marathon goes well, DT.
  • I think because I was trying to be coy that my friend didn't take his Immodium, Lit. And I bet you look taller on the telly too !

    Cheers Pete. I had a programme of weights: single leg press, single leg stability ball hamstring curls, single leg raises and hamstring curls (machine), and calf raises for the ankle/achilles stiffness. I was doing that 3x15 mins each week. Also single leg glute bridges 3 days of 3x20 each leg building up to holding a weight and also with resistance band across the knees.

    I had a tight right hip flexor and quad after the VoY half and I think that played a part in the glute issue on race day.
  • I knew that. I bet it didn't look much like an otter though. 5'4 is a perfectly average, acceptable height.
  • Well to be honest I skimmed through it but captured the blind otter moment - getting beaten by someone who's shat themselves Muddy, come on, must do better.

    Have you got his finish line photo? >:)>:)
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Oh I wasn't beaten by him Skinny. He was at 15 when I was at 22 I think but only a little bit behind the 4 hour pacer at that point. He eventually finished around 4.45. Of more importance to me was whether he managed to land a dirty high 5, and to him it was finishing ahead of his wife (just).

    Since then I've had two weeks of running with 15 and 30 miles in each week respectively. I have an entry for Birmingham half on Sunday though, and was planning to get back up to normal-ish mileage this week.
  • Ahhh - that's skim reading for you - I attributed the blind otter to the chap that just passed you rather than the high fiving mate.

    Hope his wife didn't have a visual from behind as he crossed the line! 
  • I've read it all properly now.

    Obviously you will have known towards the end you were heading for almost exactly your PB - did you care in last mile and a quarter or did you just want to get to the finish and the time was the time?

    Is the John Venn on the bridge the Venn of Venn diagrams? If so why is his name on the bridge?
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Yeah that's him Skinny and if I'd been cleverer I could've worded my picture caption as 'union of ...'. He was born in Hull, hence the commemorative Bridge. Though it was mostly painted blue until 2017.

    Ah turns it his Dad was rector of the parish the bridge is located in too ...
    http://www.weirdretro.org.uk/one-hull-of-a-story-venn-you-are-from-hull.html

    I didn't have a clue as to where I was relative to pb. I knew I was finding it much easier than I did London in the later stages and just thought what will be, will be.
  • Thanks - pretend I've done a Venn diagram here but bit busy.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Nice going, muddy. Your friends bottom must have been awfully sore afterwards. poo on the skin like that is like an acid. He'd have yelped in the shower for sure. 

    Nothing much happening my end. 5k at mp in the heat tomorrow. 
  • PeteHewPeteHew ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Oops!  Who would have thought I used to be a maths teacher?  Can't be bothered to redraw my diagram but UK Football Clubs and Vegans should be outside the loops as titles.  Inside the LH loop should be lots of club names like BWFC and inside the RH loop should be names of people such as Pamela Anderson.

    Thanks for the info on exercises, muddy.  I am familiar with many of them but have been too lazy to do them consistently and am allergic to gyms.  I must give them a serious go.  Did you work your weak side more than the other?

    Are you speaking from experience of smeared otters, DT?  Yes/no answer only please. I've already had too much information.

    Did 3 x 600m off 90s walk again today.  Came out faster for same heartrate with a mean pace of 4:23 per km vs 4:29 a week ago. 
  • PeteHew said:
    Oops!  Who would have thought I used to be a maths teacher?  Can't be bothered to redraw my diagram but UK Football Clubs and Vegans should be outside the loops as titles.  Inside the LH loop should be lots of club names like BWFC and inside the RH loop should be names of people such as Pamela Anderson.
    Haha - actually that's the real reason I didn't do one - I started doing one then couldn't work it out so I gave up after 5 mins!

    Anyhow I appreciated the first effort and didn't notice it was wrong till reading your post this morning.
  • DT - Yeah it was a very bad nappy rash situation. He was going to throw the shorts out but his wife was having none of it ! He said 'she's a keeper for sure'  :D
  • Thanks DT19, managed 10 miles on Sunday. 5 recovery on Monday and then 6 today. I'm going to look at some of the weekly schedules given to Skinny at the beginning of this thread for an idea of some of the quality sessions I need to be doing.

    Well done on the 5k PB.
  • Apologies, I posted without refreshing the webpage and then saw your race report. Nice going.
  • Thanks DT19, managed 10 miles on Sunday. 5 recovery on Monday and then 6 today. I'm going to look at some of the weekly schedules given to Skinny at the beginning of this thread for an idea of some of the quality sessions I need to be doing.

    Well done on the 5k PB.
    Hi David - if you are going to use them you will need an idea of your current paces - if you post a recent flat out time someone can work out your zones for you if you aren't able to work out for yourself.  
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    Nice going, muddy. Your friends bottom must have been awfully sore afterwards. poo on the skin like that is like an acid. He'd have yelped in the shower for sure. 

    Nothing much happening my end. 5k at mp in the heat tomorrow. 
    Quick and probably unnecessary jump in...
    my second ever half marathon, back in 2002 was a hot day. I'd overdone the water and Lucozade tablets (!) before the race, and by about 8miles i had "that feeling"

    Luckily being a very woody course, I ducked in and unleashed somewhere in the 10-11miles.

    The point? My word, the stinging ring piece later on!
    You don't forget.
  • Thanks Skinny, the most current 5k time of mine was 20:53. This was pretty flat out in my opinion. https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2976863087

    From that I have my paces as follows:

    Easy: 8:15 - 9:00
    Steady: 7:35 - 8:00
    Tempo: 7:15 - 7:35
    5k: 6:40
    HM target pace: 7:30

    Does this seem about right? Please feel free to correct as you see fit.

    Cheers
  • Stevie G said:
    DT19 said:
    Nice going, muddy. Your friends bottom must have been awfully sore afterwards. poo on the skin like that is like an acid. He'd have yelped in the shower for sure. 

    Nothing much happening my end. 5k at mp in the heat tomorrow. 
    Quick and probably unnecessary jump in...
    my second ever half marathon, back in 2002 was a hot day. I'd overdone the water and Lucozade tablets (!) before the race, and by about 8miles i had "that feeling"

    Luckily being a very woody course, I ducked in and unleashed somewhere in the 10-11miles.

    The point? My word, the stinging ring piece later on!
    You don't forget.
    Thank you for that crucial insight. ;)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Stevie, I have had it a few times and the pain when you get in the shower is ridiculous. It gave me a new found empathy for my kids when they were in nappies and had a rash. I much more understood why when I was just wiping them with wet wipes they were screaming like I was pulling off toenails!
  • DT19 said:
    Stevie, I have had it a few times and the pain when you get in the shower is ridiculous. It gave me a new found empathy for my kids when they were in nappies and had a rash. I much more understood why when I was just wiping them with wet wipes they were screaming like I was pulling off toenails!
    Stevie G said:
    DT19 said:
    Nice going, muddy. Your friends bottom must have been awfully sore afterwards. poo on the skin like that is like an acid. He'd have yelped in the shower for sure. 

    Nothing much happening my end. 5k at mp in the heat tomorrow. 
    Quick and probably unnecessary jump in...
    my second ever half marathon, back in 2002 was a hot day. I'd overdone the water and Lucozade tablets (!) before the race, and by about 8miles i had "that feeling"

    Luckily being a very woody course, I ducked in and unleashed somewhere in the 10-11miles.

    The point? My word, the stinging ring piece later on!
    You don't forget.

    DT - Yeah it was a very bad nappy rash situation. He was going to throw the shorts out but his wife was having none of it ! He said 'she's a keeper for sure'  :D

     :'(:'(:'(  Make them stop, make them stop!  :'(:'(:'(
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Oh my word I could fill pages with this subject.

    Even this many years in, having done 220+ races, and tonnes of tough sessions, it's still the biggest thing to take care of beforehand.

    Those sessions it "came on" midway, and having to go on the recoveries and still hit the next rep, those were tough!

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Skinny! Lit! Charlie! It's like 2015. 

    Muddy - really enjoyed the marathon report. Sounds like you were in control throughout, great stuff. Sub 2:45 attack at London?

    DT - fingers crossed that the everything comes together for you on Sunday, you definitely deserve a break with the weather! 

    David - I think your 'steady' pace is probably too quick and possibly too broad a range. I'd be tempted to have 08:00-08:15 as steady. Incidentally based on your 5K time, the McMillan running calculator predicts a 1:36 half and the Daniels calculator predicts 1:35....

    Pete - excellent Venn. Looks like training is going well, any plans for a race or a free weekly timed run?

    I'm still in Auckland, getting a few runs in, nothing of any real significance, apart from the fact all of my runs seem to involve a lot of elevation gain. I ran in the latest instalment of that bonkers 5K earlier this week; they've changed the route to take out the road crossings, although there is a couple of bits through 'shared' areas so you still have to keep your wits about you due to buses and people coming out of hotels/bars etc.  
  • Tommy2D said:
    David - I think your 'steady' pace is probably too quick and possibly too broad a range. I'd be tempted to have 08:00-08:15 as steady. Incidentally based on your 5K time, the McMillan running calculator predicts a 1:36 half and the Daniels calculator predicts 1:35....
    Thanks Tommy2D.
  • Tommy - Cheers. Sub 2.45 ? Hmm. I've been known to say recently 'Why limit yourself to targets?'. Or in other words, what will be, will be :)

    Good luck to DT and Mr V in York at the weekend. I'm doing Birmingham half and it's looking like it's going to be a wet one (we can break out the chafing tales to amuse Skinny next week  ;) ). I'm not expecting much from it as it'll complete a 50 something mile week for me. 

    I got home last night to a cheque for £25 and this ...


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    That is a delightful plaque. It reminds me of the ones filling boxes at my parents from my childhood football days. Good luck in Brum, don't race too hard!

    Weather looks as good as I could want for sunday. I am well rested also. The situation hit home today and I've gone from completely chilled by it all to completely self-absorbed in it.

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