Trump

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  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Deary me. Does it really matter that much?

  • No it doesn't really matter Ric. Unless you live in the US or are a paranoid Guardian reader who thinks Trump is literally Hitler! 
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    RicF said:
    Deary me. Does it really matter that much?

    Are you advocating moral nihilism?
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Mr Worry said:
    are a paranoid Guardian reader who thinks Trump is literally Hitler! 
    Daily Mail reader?

    Trump advocates division and hate.
    Trump lies and spreads conspiracy theories.
    Trump attacks the free press.
    Trump targets immigrants and outsiders.

    All fascist tactics.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    I'll stay on the side of Mr Worry here I think Ynnec.

    Some of us need to retain a sense of rational.

    I won't even fly over the US let alone live there. Newspapers! - stopped reading them. Waste of time and money. 
  • Ynnec said:
    Mr Worry said:
    are a paranoid Guardian reader who thinks Trump is literally Hitler! 
    Daily Mail reader?

    Trump advocates division and hate.
    Trump lies and spreads conspiracy theories.
    Trump attacks the free press.
    Trump targets immigrants and outsiders.

    All fascist tactics.
    Yes I read The Daily Mail and Guardian,Telegraph, Independent, BBC various US news sites., Russia Today, Quilette, The Canary and more.

    Perhaps you should read this from Spiked as to what fascism is.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/30/bolsanaro-is-not-a-fascist/

    And Hitler hated Jews unlike Trump.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018

    Perhaps you should read this from Spiked as to what fascism is.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/30/bolsanaro-is-not-a-fascist/

    Read it. Now perhaps you should read this:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-fascist-learning-about-how-fascism-works-can-help-prevent-ncna905886

    "The fact that not all fascists are like Hitler, though, doesn't change the fact that fascist tactics are recognizable, consistent and dangerous."

    I never compared Trump to Hitler, you did that on my behalf.
  • Ynnec. I think we'll have to agree to disagree what constitutes fascism.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Ay carumba! If you're after a dictionary definition of delusion, check out Donald's Twitter feed.
  • NessieNessie ✭✭✭
    I don't think the label matters.  Trump is dangerous because he always believes he is right and everyone else is wrong, even if he has done a full U-turn and then denies having had the previous view.  He rides roughshod over anyone who tries to stand up to him, and thinks money and power make him better than anyone else.
  • Trump. What a total bell-end.
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    What Jim Acosta did to that poor girl at the press conference. Squeezing her boob like that before urinating on her and using a racial slur. You all saw it.

    We're in a strange place were preference and allegiance dictate the very definition of things and what we see or don't see, what we hear or don't hear. In this populist politics the perceived function of government has shifted from social/economic management to cultural/racial management. Beyond that there's no standard of principle, ideology or meaning to discuss or explore anything. The floor is forever moving beneath our feet. You're either in this identity movement or you're not. You either take strength and pride from it or you don't. Trying to figure out what it actually is seems bloody impossible. Asking the people who identify with it doesn't help. Traditional political positions of being "of the left" or "of the right" don't really explain things, although arguments still get couched in those terms. Same here with Brexit. It's all through the looking glass, and the row is over what is real and what is mirror.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    JT141 said:
    What Jim Acosta did to that poor girl at the press conference. Squeezing her boob like that before urinating on her and using a racial slur. You all saw it.
    He absolutely ravaged her. Disgusting behaviour.

    Suddenly, there's been no mention of the caravan riddled with MS-13 members and Middle-Eastern terrorists. Strange that...
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Nessie said:
    I don't think the label matters.  Trump is dangerous because he always believes he is right and everyone else is wrong, even if he has done a full U-turn and then denies having had the previous view.  He rides roughshod over anyone who tries to stand up to him, and thinks money and power make him better than anyone else.
    I still find the hatred of Trump by many, bordering on the irrational.

    Dangerous to who?

    His main crime appears to be that he's not, never was, or ever will be, a member of that secretive ruling elite who scheme behind closed doors for their own benefit at the expense of anyone -not one of them.

    It's America, their god is money. Their game is competition and the size of the bank balance is the score.
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    RicF said:
    His main crime appears to be that he's not, never was, or ever will be, a member of that secretive ruling elite who scheme behind closed doors for their own benefit at the expense of anyone -not one of them.
    Okay, I want you to clarify something for everyone's sake. This "secretive ruling elite" in terms of power and finance, are you indicating "Jewish globalists" here? In truth Ric I don't think that is what you mean but as it's a common anti-Semitic trope it's better to make things clear.
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Ynnec said:
    Suddenly, there's been no mention of the caravan riddled with MS-13 members and Middle-Eastern terrorists. Strange that...
    Numbers dwindled. The paedophile contingent went home once all the kids had died of TB. The ISIS members had already left because they couldn't understand a fucking word anyone was saying. All that's turning up at the border is 300 knackered women, a Honduran Bill Cosby impersonator and the ghost of Jimmy Saville. Ows about that then.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    JT141 said:
    RicF said:
    His main crime appears to be that he's not, never was, or ever will be, a member of that secretive ruling elite who scheme behind closed doors for their own benefit at the expense of anyone -not one of them.
    Okay, I want you to clarify something for everyone's sake. This "secretive ruling elite" in terms of power and finance, are you indicating "Jewish globalists" here? In truth Ric I don't think that is what you mean but as it's a common anti-Semitic trope it's better to make things clear.
    Ric may be awhile in responding, no doubt reading Icke's latest tome.
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    A fair few years ago I read something about the massive audiences Icke was pulling as a speaker at international events. I remember David Icke as a slightly tragic figure of fun from the 80s, yet here he was as keynote at conspiracy conventions geared up for thousands of attendees. In hindsight it was a signpost to what was coming. Icke picked up a following who took his "lizard people" as code for Jews. Think he was pretty consistent though that "lizard people means lizard people".

    In conspiracy thinking it's amazing how often Jews pop up. I'm not even sure it's ideologically anti-Semitic. It's just lazy. Everything from flat Earth to anti-vaccine at some point hits that snag of how and why there's an organised global suppression of this truth. And the answer is, implicitly or explicitly, a very old and well worn one. Or maybe it's the other way round and you start from malevolent global conspiracy and let your imagination run riot with possible implications until you drill down to fluoridation of water as a cover for chemically homosexualising children. Again it's all pretty funny right up until the point people start getting killed.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Ric, I think he is dangerous.  I often look at him and hear what he's saying and want to laugh, but then I remember he's the President!  I think he's dangerous as he basically lies and manipulates the truth to suit his own agenda.  So he's dangerous to the public, as many just seem to believe what he says and voted accordingly at the presidential election.  I looked at his Twitter after the recent election and he's just span it to make it look like a victory.  Now I know all politicians do that one way or another, but this guy has just taken it to an extreme.  

    He also seems to be making it a personal goal to dismantle the previous administration's policies.  He doesn't appear to be doing that from a position of carefully thinking through the nuances of the decision.  It's personal.  In my view, that's dangerous for a leader to be like that, as well as potentially dangerous to the millions of Americans from a health care perspective.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Not anti-Semitic. Didn't even give that a thought. Dare I suggest Jewish people are conveniently blamed for all sorts of things. 

    Icke - should have stuck to reading out the sports news. Though I imagine that's a lot less lucrative to shape shifters with scales.

    The issue with Trump, is that in an ever changing world, people are looking for points of reference and cast iron certainties.

    It's how they make sense of the world around them. 

    And one certainty decades back was that Trump was, well... I mean, he ended up being parodied as president on the Simpsons.

     A joke since it was certain that such a possibility was so remote as to be laughable.

    And then it happened.

    And if that's possible, anything is possible. 

    So I'd say it isn't Trump who is dangerous. What is dangerous is the processes and systems that allowed him to be where he is today.


  • JT141 said:
    What Jim Acosta did to that poor girl at the press conference. Squeezing her boob like that before urinating on her and using a racial slur. You all saw it.

    We're in a strange place were preference and allegiance dictate the very definition of things and what we see or don't see, what we hear or don't hear. In this populist politics the perceived function of government has shifted from social/economic management to cultural/racial management. Beyond that there's no standard of principle, ideology or meaning to discuss or explore anything. The floor is forever moving beneath our feet. You're either in this identity movement or you're not. You either take strength and pride from it or you don't. Trying to figure out what it actually is seems bloody impossible. Asking the people who identify with it doesn't help. Traditional political positions of being "of the left" or "of the right" don't really explain things, although arguments still get couched in those terms. Same here with Brexit. It's all through the looking glass, and the row is over what is real and what is mirror.
    Read an interesting thread yesterday about how the liars know full well they're lying. They don't actually believe this shit themselves, they do it to strengthen the the cult on one hand (by reinforcing their loyalty) and piss of the liberals on the other. 
  • Big_G said:
    Ric, I think he is dangerous.  I often look at him and hear what he's saying and want to laugh, but then I remember he's the President!  I think he's dangerous as he basically lies and manipulates the truth to suit his own agenda.  So he's dangerous to the public, as many just seem to believe what he says and voted accordingly at the presidential election.  I looked at his Twitter after the recent election and he's just span it to make it look like a victory.  Now I know all politicians do that one way or another, but this guy has just taken it to an extreme.  

    He also seems to be making it a personal goal to dismantle the previous administration's policies.  He doesn't appear to be doing that from a position of carefully thinking through the nuances of the decision.  It's personal.  In my view, that's dangerous for a leader to be like that, as well as potentially dangerous to the millions of Americans from a health care perspective.
    He's radicalising people. He radicalised one of his die-hard supporters into making pipe bombs that were sent to targets he regularly attacks (Democrat politicians and the media). It's just lucky they were all intercepted.

    His utter incompetence in providing an adequate repose to the hurricane in Puerto Rico led to unnecessary deaths. 

    He overturned legislation making it harder for people with mental health problems to get hold of guns. Yesterday a veteran with PTSD murdered 12 people in California.

    He is dangerous. He's killing people.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    He is dangerous. He's killing people.

    As potentially dangerous as the President of the USA can be.

    No he isn't.



    He's an egotistical business man with questionable hair who posts impulse comments on Twitter.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    I realise the political bias, but I do enjoy CNN's commentaries on Trump's interviews and press conferences:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/daily-caller-trump-interview/index.html
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Still obsessing with Trump, who's nothing more than the symptom of a greater issue. 

    If it's such a problem this guy being in the White House, think about the reasons and processes which put him there.
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    RicF said:
    Still obsessing with Trump, who's nothing more than the symptom of a greater issue. 

    If it's such a problem this guy being in the White House, think about the reasons and processes which put him there.

    You realise this is a thread entitled 'Trump', right? 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    I'm an observer.

    Unlike many others, I don't have an ax to grind or a raft of unresolved issues and baggage to deal with.

    Trump seems to get a raw deal around here since his detractors see an arsehole even bigger than they are, yet is successful. 

    Not fair is it?

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