P&D Autumn Marathon 2018

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  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    AWC: how low can you get on a pistol squat? I do my single leg squats on a jump box with my free leg only marginally extended.
    TM (treadmill) 10K(total distance) w(with) 6 one km intervals at 6 min/Mile so 3:45/km. I use a 2% incline for all treadmill workouts btw.
    Legs were feeling that session today but 7M before work & 5M at lunch d&d.


  • Afternoon all. Sorry I’ve been a bit off grid the last few days so struggling to catch up now with everyone’s exploits.

    Chick - congrats on the AG win, nice work.

    Macca - good luck this weekend, always sounds like a pretty brutal race.

    HA - where abouts in London will you be potentially working?

    I’ve signed up to Wokingham, sounds like it’ll be a decent thread meet up. Think we’re also going to do Reading. If anyone wants a 20 miler in the build up to Spring marathons, I’m the race director of the TR20 in Fulham - out and back down the river. I think I’ve already seen Maccas name on the start sheet (thanks mate).

    So treated myself to a birthday ultra down in the Gower. I’m not going to lie, it was pretty brutal! 34 miles and over 4,000ft of climbing. I’d done absolutely no training for it, so went in with zero expectations other than get around and hopefully finish. 

    Set it off really steady, letting many people go ahead and just trying to enjoy the experience rather than get into positions and racing. On the whole, I did really enjoy it, although the lack of training really showed in the last 10km or so, where I was treating myself to 0.1 mile walk breaks after 0.2 miles of running. Ha. There was no one ahead or behind me (finish was a straight, 2 mile beach where you could see the finish as soon as you were on it), so I just slogged it home for 7th place. Lost 2 places in the last 4 miles, but had nothing left.

    Good experience, I’ll definitely do more. And do some training next time!

    Spent the last few days walking down in Devon on the South West Coast Path. Absolutely beautiful part of the world. 
  • Jools - it’s the third edition of WW50 I’ve done the previous 2, 10:50ish then 10:06, so I’d like to break 10hrs but the I suspect the law of diminishing returns might have something to say about it.

    SQ - sadly that’s an album that gets played less frequently nowadays in my car/house.  I try to sing over rude words but “pack my pitch up” wouldn’t fool anyone.

    Hazel - I don’t know if European builders are different but I wouldn’t trust a builders portaloo over here 🥔 apologies but I had to use that emoji when it popped up !”

    I darent ask what a pistol squat is 😱


  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Jools: snap on the pistol squat. I used a seat bench this morning which work well. Love the shorthand for the session - will have to employ that myself sometime. what's the Fuji thingy that comes up on your Strava - is that another shorthand thing?
    Joe: Gower CTS sounds pretty brutal - but lovely way to spend your birthday :smile: Devon and SWCP is lovely - I did some of it this year when in Minehead/Lynmouth.
    Macca: its not as bad as it sounds! Its a 1 legged squat with the non standing leg pointing out in front so your body shape looks like a pistol.
    Ended up doing a fartlek at lunchtime as I felt like doing something more speedy today.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Fuji is just the make of my road bike.
    Cracking result at the Ultra Joe - that's not an easy course. I've run lots of it in sections & walked the lot in one go.
  • X-post Joe.  Great result on the Gower GTS.  Sounds like a great way to spend a birthday, I’ve got a meeting in Croydon on mine, not quite the same but I’m tempted to run there 33miles.

    I see there’s a couple of Andy Mac’s on the list Joe but not me I’m afraid. It has piqued my interest though so will have a think about it.

    Sounds tough AWC.  I’m a fan of core work but I think I’ll give that one a miss.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Joe -  Great work on the Gower. Not a bad spot for it either. I reckon that beach at Rhossili is one of the best in the UK. Some nice looking walks and runs the past week too. The work is in North West London, near Hanger Lane. It was supposed to start this week but will probably be next week or the week after now. 

    Macca - Thinking about singing over inappropriate lyrics reminded me of the time as a teenager I played a mixed tape in my parents car, forgetting that Nine Inch Nails - Closer was on it. A few initial attempts to cover the rude parts with loud conversation were woefully unsuccessful. 

    Jools/AWC - I'm pretty sure I can go all the way down on a pistol squat, it's just the getting back up that's the problem. I did go through a phase of doing a strength routine but when time became short, that was the first to go. I've been thinking of starting a simple plyometric routine again though. 

    Just an easy 8 miles with strides this morning. Was thinking of doing a MLR but I slept in. Starting to feel ok again now, it's only 5 weeks post race.
  • muddy – I have really enjoyed the Gloucester 20 the couple of times I ran it. Both were with a large chunk at MP, but certainly not all of it. Running controlled was probably one reason I like the event. A lot of people there seem to do it all out, or all 20M at proposed MP – an error in my book.

    Nice hill reps, AWC, and great to see another Mona Fartlek pop up. You’re getting in some good sessions.

    Excellent treadmilling whilst working, Jooligan. I did similar on Wednesday, in that I fitted in some squats, deadlifts, presses etc whilst supervising gym. Fairly stiff today.

    Well planned for Reading, HA. All of my PBs seem to have come in marathon training, but when having a good taper/recovery week beforehand. Great to see a track session as well. Still can’t get my head round Scott’s 2min 800.

    The Gower is a great place, Joe. Can’t think of a much better location for an ultra. Well done – I reckon you could go very well over that kind of distance if you targeted it. Good to see you then getting in some long walks, I am very jealous.

    Macca ‘pack my pitch up’ LOL! And sounds like I’ll avoid playing some Nine Inch Nails in the classroom anytime soon.

    On muddy’s excellent advice, I am trying to do a weekly test, to track progress and think about what works for me in training. So I did my second ever Mona Fartlek today. The total 20 minute distance was 0.01M further than last week. Guess that counts as progress?! After a bit of recovery, then did 6 x very short sharp hills (12s ish). Felt good to get the knees high and arms pumping. Enjoyable session.


  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    SQ - Nice work on the Mona Fartlek. Just my opinion, but with sessions like that I think early on it's good to focus on the fast sections and hit a good pace, slowing down the recoveries if necessary, then as you approach the marathon try to maintain the fast sections and gradually increase the recoveries to MP. The big improvements I've had were all by increasing the recovery pace. Just the way I do it and I'm sure you'll get benefits however you approach it.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Thanks for the feedback, HA. Noted. Will have a go next week. Probably couldn’t have gone faster in the opening 90s, but perhaps for the later shorter bits. 
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    SQ: great Mona Fartlek backed up with the hill sprints. Agree with HA on not worrying about recoveries early on - I really needed a recovery pace yesterday between reps, but I know if I keep them up weekly I'll be able to hit MP recoveries like I used to before.
  • Jools -No I have not done the Portsmouth marathon before - anyone lese here done it?

    Cheers Macca - I love it when a plan comes together. (Not sure I have ever been accused of following a plan before though).

    50 bloody miles this week if I go for a lunchtime run... starting to get a few aches now as I usually get when I get up to this mileage. - Taper time soon :-)

  • Lots of great training going on. Particularly impressed with how SQ and Jooligan bounced back from Abo.

    Good to see lots are doing Wokingham again, I’ll be there too.

    Jooligan - I think the hot London had a big effect on times this year - I’m still 600ish on Powerof10 for marathons this year, normally I’d be lucky to scrape the top 1000 with that time.

    Macca/SQ that reminds me of Adam Buxton’s “Dad” version of N.W.A.’s “F*** Tha Police” which is absolutely hilarious - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ooarT3cn8_o

    I’ve been a bit quiet on the thread lately. Motivation was low and I felt like all I was doing was moaning on here, so decided to keep my head down and concentrate on other things, while still plugging away with the running. Thankfully I feel like things are starting to click this week. My heart rate has finally settled down to where it should be, and things just feel more flowing. Fingers crossed that’ll continue!

  • Fat Boy TrimFat Boy Trim ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018

    Spoons - nothing wrong with moaning...I'm king of the moaners.

    Macca  - I like that - would have your work cut out on some of Ice T's lyrics - like all of them.

    I like Dr Dre 2001 but can't play it at home anymore - so perhaps listening while running could be the plan.....(don't normally listen to music as too much of a faf)

    Keep it coming.


  • That video proper cracked me up Spoons. Had to put the original on straight after of course :D
    Good to hear that you've noticed the fact things are going well for you again. Any thoughts on a target at Telford yet?
    10M race round Elan Valley for me today. I was 16th but only cause the field was relatively weak this year. Last time I did it I was 20th but 99s faster: only just scraped inside 70 today but it is a very lumpy course with over 900ft of climbing.
    I was also 8th at parkrun beforehand in 19:17 at Aberystwyth :D Done a lot of driving today!
  • HA - That story made me laugh, I just had to youtube it, I’m glad the kids weren’t around.  I can see how you would struggle to cover it.

    Spoons - that made me laugh too.  I don’t recall any moaning, but am glad to read things are feeling more positive.

    Jools well done on the race double.  Difficult to quantify with the PR and driving beforehand but you can only race against the people that turn up. 

    A quick word on Wendover Woods 50 today.  Based on previous performances I was hoping for a sub 10hrs so I’m made up with a 9:01 and 12th place.  I’ll hopefully get the lap splits at some point but it felt like a well controlled race.  As usual, a fantastically organised ultra and a great day out in the woods.
  • Brilliant effort Joe, adding ultra running to your repertoire! I'm interested to know how you recover from that (as in practical measures).

    Steady progress RSR. Good to see.

    SQ - Yes if I did the Gloucester 20 I'd probably attempt 15 at marathon effort (I never run for a target pace/time in training/races)

    I was never quite aware of what a Mona fartlek was, but, now I I know, I realised I do something similar when I only have 30 mins to play with. Maybe I absorbed details of the session from the thread into my subconscious.

    Well done on the parkrun and hilly 10m.Jooligan. It's astounding what you put into a day. Perhaps it's an  impertinent  question but don't you feel absolutely battered ?

    Amazing run Macca. I reckon I spent 9 hours lazing around after parkrun this morning!

    Speaking of which, forgot my barcode and so couldn't quite find the motivation to go all out, but still racked up a very hard effort for 17.17 on my watch.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Great stuff Macca. You seem to be getting closer to the pointy end of ultras nowadays. Very impressive. You're right about that song - I like to play the kids music from my past but I might avoid that one.

    Nice work on the 10 miler Jools

    Great PR time Muddy. I noticed your discussion on training paces on the other thread and I must say I completely agree with you.

    Spoon - Great work on the comeback. It's easy to do all the right things when everything's going well and motivation is high but much harder when things aren't going so well. From Strava it looks like you've been keeping up your yoga and strengthening and building up sensibly. Something I could certainly learn from.

    Almost 11 miles last night and felt really good. Considered going longer or building into a progression but carried on with my cautious approach and kept it steady. Might try a shortish offroad tempo tomorrow if I wake up early enough.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    FBT - good luck with the taper!

    Jools - decent 10mi on a lumpy course

    Macca: aiming for 10hrs and hitting 9hrs not bad. I did think that 10hrs was a bit soft as I’d run just over 10hrs for the first 50 of the NDW100 and you are much quicker than me at these things!

    muddy: quick parkrun for being unmotivated!!

    Spoons: great to see your pace coming back. 

    Went out on my nightime loop last night and did 25mi (about 9 loops) - felt a lot better than previous weeks particularly on the big hill. Last couple of loops I wasn’t completely dying by the top - another 2,500ft of climbing and my legs are beginning to feel stronger. 

  • Legs felt absolutely wrecked yesterday Muddy. Cracking parkrun tempo effort.
    Good stuff AWC, is the Saturday night LR providing the bulk of your weekly mileage atm?
    Caution HA, What's that? :p
    Backed up yesterday's racing with a decent MT [email protected]:45s in the sunshine today to bring me up to 70M for the week & another week closer to the 3K. The required run rate remains at 8.8M/day
  • Jooligan - no target for Telford yet, no idea where I’ll be by then. My PB certainly won’t be in any danger! Busy weekend as ever, great work.

    Great result Macca, congrats. You’re getting better and better at these ultras very impressive.

    Nice parkrun Muddy, love the symmetry of the time.

    HA yes endless yoga, I don’t enjoy it much but knowing it’s what allows me to get out the following morning pain free just about gets me through it! Sounds like you’re being sensible too.

    Impressive nighttime long run AWC, do you enjoy doing loops like that? 

    Positive weekend for me. Made it to parkrun and dipped under 19 minutes which I was happy with all things considered. Legs felt good the whole way around, but my aerobic system still has some catching up to do. Followed that by 18 miles yesterday, bringing me up to nearly 70 miles for the week. Just trying to gradually build things up so I’m hopefully in a good place to start training for London in the new year. Training for training!

  • AWC - Taper - only just got my second long run in this weekend - another 20 miler.

    Saying that only have another 4 weekends left so 1 more 20 miler I hope then taper off.

    25 miles of 9 loops... eek



  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Jools: 3k for the year is going to be impressive - I'm on 2,130 at the moment and was hoping for 2.5k  at the start of this year but then the baby came along! I'm doing 55-60 mi/week at the moment so the LR is about 40% of that. Probably not recommended but my legs feel fine - just a bit sore from all the hills. I'd need to avg 60mi/wk to hit 2.5k
    Spoons: Nice comeback parkrun and ramping up the mileage again nicely. I'd prefer not to do loops but I prefer it to running through the parks of Southampton on my own at midnight :smile: 
    FBT: it does get a bit repetitive but its good mental training
  • Great ultra running by Macca and Joe - well done.

    Thanks for asking Jools about the Fuji thingy AWC I'd been wondering about that myself.  Nice night time looping!

    I hope that wasn't any blood involved in the bloody 50 miles last week FBT - good mileage.

    Good that you are feeling better about your running spoons - feel free to moan when you like.

    Nice race double Jools.  Great mileage for the year.

    Shame you forgot your barcode for your pr Muddy. 

    Recovery week on reduced mileage for me this week after getting back to 45 miles last week. I did do a hike with plenty of upping and downing yesterday though so the legs were a bit tired for the 11 miles today.  Winter has arrived here now with a bit of snow.  Hope the weather won't be too bad for getting back into some speedwork again next week.  Don't mind cold and wet / snow just no ice and not too much wind please.  But wasn't I moaning about being bored with warm and sunny for weeks on end a few weeks ago?  Will take whatever comes.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Still on then AWC - just need 1 or 2 Macca weeks.
    3x20M is plenty to get round in reasonable shape IMO FBT. What's the target? Best taper for running is 2 week exponential decay of 40-60% according to the literature btw. You could get another decent week's training in, including another LR, if you reduced the taper. Abstract here
    Colder here Hazel but no danger of ice/snow yet so great running conditions.
    5M at lunch then 10M before swimming. Was intending on 7 but legs felt so good on the way out I kept going - tough mentally over the last 3 miles as fatigue started to kick in but turns out I'd upped the pace slightly. Brings the average down to 8.5M/day :)
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    I love the irony of Jools posting a link to an article on tapering!!!

    10 miles tonight with 10x a little hill round the corner from me. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    AWC - Well done on your looped LR. My thoughts exactly on Jools taper advice. Have you ever been fresh for a race Jools?

    Jools - 3000 miles for the year is solid. I've no doubt you'll get there, even if you need to do a 100 miler on New Years Eve. I'm looking at getting just over 3000 km, so not even 2000 miles. 

    Spoon - Nice work on the comeback PR and building some good mileage. If things aren't going right for me I don't do yoga, I just eat junk, drink beer and feel sorry for myself.

    Hazel - Does the ice and snow over there affect your running much over winter?

    Got out for a hilly, offroad 5 mile tempo yesterday morning. Went alright really, nothing special, but a decent start. I'm looking forward to doing them in the light at some point.
  • Super running on this thread....Macca at WW, Joe at Gower CTS, AWC long runs etc etc.

    I've still been building my miles, now back to 30 per week. Still doing 90 minutes on the bike before my Saturday runs, so last 2 weeks have been 90 mins on the bike then 10 miles of running. Decided not to follow the P&L 10k plan, as it's going to be too much speedwork too soon after my injury, so just going to keep building my base miles to get my aerobic base back to where it was pre injury, then see where I'm at when I get to my 10k race!! Can then follow P&L HM plan for Edinburgh in May.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Steve: glad to hear the recovery is continuing. 90mins bike + 10M run is a solid effort.
    Fair point AWC/HA, though you'll notice I was using science to back up the idea of a reduced taper. Probably not truly fresh HA though I do cut back in the week or 2 before a marathon.
    That little hill certainly got the HR up AWC. Is yours wrist based or a strap? The response seemed instantaneous.
    Looked like a decent session on Strava HA & you managed to bag a couple of crowns in the process too.
    Can't get out at lunch today so 1st run commute of the academic year:  7.3M this morning & the same again this evening although I may be tempted to add a bit to hit 15 again.

  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Steve: good to see you back - have noticed on Strava that you've been increasing your running. Hopefully everything holds together.
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