Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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Comments

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Well I've already said my piece on kit for running in the rain and that doesn't include rain jackets.

    I don't wear them because I find them horrible to run in. Cycle jackets I found worse than running jackets so in the days when I cycled to work, I wore a running jacket. Not only was it cheaper, but the quality of function was higher.

    I'm talking Goretex here. But in the rain, you're not going to stay dry. 

    🙂

  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    SG, sacking off an arbitrary annual mileage target might be the most sensible thing you've decided / said, ever. Take some time out and go dating!

    I managed to sneak under 30 for my 5 miler yesterday. 6s was the final margin, not helped by a bit of meteorological wind, lack of chip timing and a rather eccentric approach to the hand timing they used. There was a bit of a cock up at the start where the starter shouted go, we went, and then a few seconds later the starters gun went. To offset this they seem to have added 5-6s to everyone's time versus the timing clock / stopwatch (survey of a few). Not an issue but could have been! There were some fast young chaps there, great to see them warming up. Andy Greenleaf finished 3rd which was a surprise to me but some Po10 research shows it shouldn't have been such a surprise to see him get beaten by some of his clubmates / training partners.

    Pete - I'm afraid that means I've caught you on RB but it'll be short-lived given that you'll continue to race on and I'll not race again until mid Feb. That sounds like a very good XC result to me. Any proper races between now and the end of the year?

    Bus - hope you heal well. I think you have plenty of experience of handling the niggles. For me it's the mental anguish more than anything. It's quite amazing really how quite an average runner can get so very fixated about it (I am referencing myself there, can't find a way to structure the sentence properly to not require this parenthesized clarification!). I really admire Pete's attitude to it all actually.....

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Good race Wool; sub 30 always a landmark over 5m and only done it once myself. Not sure what my "attitude to it all" is unless its just to race lots so I never get too wound up about 1 race (but even then I do if I ever specifically target anything!). Thanks for the compliment anyway!
    I'm also unlikely to go any lower on RB unless they rate any future parkruns I do as super hard; sort of happened at Rushmoor this weekend where it got rated a SSS of 3.6 which must be because of the balls up on the distance, so my modest 19'18 there was still rated a vSSS of -0.5 on RB. Not enough to drop me any lower in overall rating though. With some of your best times being very recent you shouldn't go up much for a few months even if you don't race.  No more races booked now; I've tried my luck for a free GFA place at Wokey but strictly don't qualify anyway as my sub 1'25's are a bit over 2 years ago and the two 1'25'xx's since then are the xx seconds over their limit! Don't really care anyway as no lover of HM's and, if I have to do one, would rather wait and do Fleet. Not ruled out a bash at Ealing mile on Friday but only if conditions look perfect; currently looks too windy.  Anyone else up for that? 

    SG; agree with others that artificial mileage targets are for crap runners that like to pretend they're good :)  Not for the likes of you and definitely wise to bin your 3000 arbitrary target and focus on getting the 10k/HM times you want next year.    

    Good xc as ever Simon, once again your finishing position merely emphasise the top class quality of the field.

    Great to hear your meds are all working Ric and you are going well; any plans to race again next year? Agree with you on the cycling jackets; I've tried running in a few different waterproof ones that are all good for cycling, but all feel sweaty and unnatural for running. 
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    Pete, please take the compliment. I actually meant to type Ric thouch 😬.

    HM has to be the best distance to race doesn’t it? Cruise for 8, push for 2, hold on for 3. None of this race-long pain that’s associated with the short races and none of the training associated with the longer ones. By far my fave distance.

    I think Fleet is some kind of oldies champs this year. No good for me, too many fast v45s like Simon around!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Ta chaps. I've probably been overdue a little break since the GSR race. Have certainly had on and off "warmth" but just slept it off. The XC races have shown I'm not quite at it, yesterday, being a severe course just tipping me over!

    Could probably get away with just training through, but nothing really to be gained with nothing big up soon.


    ps Wool, cruise for 8 miles in a half? I'd never call sub 6 cruising :)

    I used to think of it more as 5miles of getting into the race, 5miles locking the pace down, and then 5k of holding on!
    At Wokingham especially you need to hold on for the last 5k, as that's the up bridges, which are easy to forget on the way out and slightly down.

    Get what you mean though, it's a comfortably hard pace in a race, unlike the uncomfortably hard of shorter stuff. I get my most satisfaction from finishing a half - 27 to date. I do like stats turning over, but appreciate the 3,000 is an unnecessary one, and in fairness was finished the 2months I tried the 3sesh 50mile weeks.

    I wonder if that little spell actually took a bit too much out of me. We'll probably never know, as I'll get back to twice a week when I return, and a more traditional medium long midweek, and proper LSR.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    ps Wool, tidy sub 30, in what sounds like surprisingly farcical scenes for a race so well established!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    ps I realise a little half week break is alright when I see the big man Simon considering similar!

    Tidy race old son!

  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    SG, it’s all relative. If I was your age I reckon sub 6 would be cruising ;-)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018

    Feels easier in the race then training that's for sure. And in fairness, even melting down at the GSR I still put in a 5.57 average!

    Off to bed in 10mins!! Rock n roll! Best way to get back to 100% though isn't it. Rest and sleep :)

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Don't bother Philip - unless you're doing a very slow plod for several hours, you are better off just keeping the worst of the weather off with a Pertex Windproof, with a long sleeve thermal underneath that is highly breathable (most have a DWR coating usually lasts for a while as well, which keeps most of the rain off). The Montane Featherlite Smock I use has seen me stay warm in some pretty foul conditions  and is so small you can easily pack it in a pocket or tie it round you waist and barely notice it is there.

    Reg - I've got the impression that there is a full-time panto going in in Windsor Castle!!!  Can't believe you mentioned a Wokey plan!

    Ric - I've tried many of those things, and am just finishing off the last of the magnesium tablets I've tried. Not noticed a difference to be honest but worth a go. Funnily enough, I do find that Ibuprofen helps with all sorts of niggles and aches, but I don't like taking it unless it's necessary for my back pain as it can cause all sorts of stomach issues if taken regularly. I could probably do with cutting down on alcohol, but not sure its a price worth paying!  I certainly don't think the new guidelines on weekly units is at all practical (though maybe in 30 years time those of our grandkids who aren't being wiped out by climate change will look back on our alcohol consumption with horror!).  

    I thought you must think I tried to cane every run :smile: That used to be the case a few years back, but for the last few years I've definitely needed a slow warm up. These days the slow warm up tends to last for the whole run!!!

    Double today, and a weekend off seems to have helped things. No major issues and although slow, I actually felt like doing some fartleks in the last couple of miles just for fun!

    Oh, and sensible approach SG!
  • Sorry chaps - for some reason I missed all the posts above! Must have been on the next page or something...

    Good work on the XC Simon, especially off minimal warm-up time and no break in training.

    Wool, like Pete says, a sub 30 5M always gives you a good feeling. It took me a fair while to get my first one, even when other distances suggested it should have been something of a given. 


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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    These spammers are getting cleverer  :D
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Crikey! for a second I thought we were getting one of those 'fake passport' spam offers.

    SG, the source of your fatigue is likely to be connected to the below.

    https://blog.strava.com/why-faster-might-not-be-better-17291/

    Wool - Thanks for the endorsement, though to be fair Pete could easily fit the frame. We are both the same age, similar meds and both running in a way that equates to the 'singing dog' principle. In the way that it's not about how well we do at running, it's that we can do it at all.

    It's hard work sticking at running when it's not going well. But worth it when it is.

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Ric that article looks more along the lines of over training. I had a scan of the symptoms and there's stuff like consistent muscular aches, lack of appetite, regularly feeling ill which im not at. Glazing over warm a few times consistent with tiptoing a cold but not quite breaking into one for a few weeks though by every chance.

    Only one session do i remember not hitting paces, which is another sign. But that was really windy and too close to something else if i recall.

    However, the gsr, parkrun and 4 xc since haven't felt strong. May be a dip in form maybe more. But either way a little break then easing back in looks smart

    It was good to try that experiment of lower miles more intense but i think for certain ill go back to higher miles less intense, and try and ease the easy runs down a gear too.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    You're being modest again there Ric but I really do think your attitude to injury rehab / prevention is something that a lot of people could learn from. Patience doesn't come naturally to the want-everything-now 'ers out there.

    SG, I think it might be a good experiment to run your easy runs at a slower pace. I'll be really interested to see if you can detect a discernable difference in training effect and / or whether there's an upside of being fresher for sessions. I had a run with Sean last night, it was nice to catch-up. Perhaps your ears were burning but we did talk about you (in a nice way, of course) and concluded that you'd been very hard on yourself over some of the XC results, particularly when you're beaten by some of our clubmates. Now, enough of being nice to you, get your head sorted and get back to the training you do best!

    Does anyone read Russell Bentley's blog?

    https://russellrunner.com/2018/12/03/podium5k/

    I'm new to his stuff but I like the way that he reflects on things. This one is good as I really like the way that he reflects on the difference between parkrun and a real race. I must say that I share his feelings - I like parkrun don't get me wrong but I really find it hard to get 'up' for on a Saturday morning. To me it makes it all the more remarkable the consistently fast times that you produce Pete....


  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    That said, I have to admit that I wore a plain grey t-shirt to race in at the weekend. Might not do that again!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    SG, too many races I reckon. There's a significant mental aspect to this game and your best performances seem to come early in a cycle. Wokingham HM, first couple of 5ks, then it appears to tail off a bit as you do race after race.

    I never run in a jacket, I find the best option is a lycra base layer with just a normal wicking running top, plus a beanie. If you have something that doesn't hold the water, you're better off just getting wet and letting it run-off. Unless it's a slow recovery run, running keeps you a lot warmer than cycling does. Cycling jackets are normally a much different cut so don't suit running that well. They are water-proof, i have a couple of gore-tex ones and they do get warm unless it's pretty cold.

    If it's absolutely chucking it down I'd consider a jacket to run but up untill now I have just sacked it off in that situation!

    Nice sub 30 5 miler, Wool.

    Why can't you believe it Bus? Day 2 of my Wokingham plan, 8 miles, Endurance run, 74-84% of MHR and it came out just under 7m/mi. Happy enough with that but feel a bit jaded already! Days rest then the first split tempo run, 14 mins then 12 mins, seems a lot.

  • Sweat Patches Wool? too many fast V45's  - join the club! Greenwood,Skinner, Baines etc etc..why can't they just grow old gracefully and leave us to the running :) I might have done Fleet but it's a few days before I go to Poland for the 3000 indoors, so wouldn't be a great idea..so not challenging for an England half vest at Maidenhead? later in the year. I think the M45 standard was 82.00 - I thought it would be under 80.00 tbh. Russell's Berlin blog was very earthy - proper old school stuff.

    SG - Well I'm not going to Luton tonight, but I did do 10 x 70 secs along the canal this morning. I'll do the long commute tomorrow and then that will be it until Saturday so a break of sorts.

    Cheers Bus - good cycling too!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Ric that article looks more along the lines of over training. I had a scan of the symptoms and there's stuff like consistent muscular aches, lack of appetite, regularly feeling ill which im not at.

    SG, clearly you didn't read it? 

    It's about a fundamental training principle, not about over training.

    Try again. 

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Simon - I knew it! You rest as often as I do!

    Wool - there's a chance the 3 session weeks got me slightly run down without necessarily realising it, and I've had it bubbling under since as I've tried to ease the mileage back up.
    Therefore, once I'm over this little rest spell I'll go a little easier while I'm getting back to peak mileage.

    However, I don't think the easy pace is that big an issue as such. It'd probably have kicked in before otherwise. It's a good min slower than HM, and while yes it' "top end" easy and it could be slower, if it comes out at that pace, and you're still hitting all the session aims, it's probably ok.
    I see mutual pals of ours, who race a half at 6.30ish, claiming 7-7.15 runs as "easy" or "slow", and that's more what I'd say is overdoing it.

    Read that chap's blog, as someone must have posted it on FB.
    Particularly interested me as I did that Podium a few months back, so a lot of it reads very memorably!
    He must be one hell of a runner to take McCormack though! He won by a mile in the one I did, 14.40s or something I think, and actually did a quicker time than Mo Farah in the London 2012 5k heats.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    it was a tech top at least Simon but means I'm disqualified as a racer in Russell's eyes!

    You made me go and Google. The qualifiers and the event itself are both pretty local (Maidenhead is very local, of course & a very good event) which made me get interested. Then I read MV45 / 82:30 and got even more interested. Then I read finish in the top 4 in cat at Fleet. Hmm....highly unlikely!

    MV50 / 85:30 qualification might be of interest for more than one person on here though:

    https://www.englandathletics.org/athletics-and-running/england-competitions/england-teams-and-selection/england-age-group-masters/half-marathon-masters-team-opportunities/

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Reg - 100% on the mental side of things.
    32 races sounds a lot, but we have to remember about 5 of those were relays that you could really class as sessions, and about 75% were short stuff between miles and 5k. So not as mad a  tally as it could be.

    Moraghan was big on not trying to do say 2 half marathons within 6 weeks, and I definitely found that if you smashed the first one, you'd struggle to match it on the second. Might be different for others.

    The peaking early in a set of races has rung true for me like the above before, but this year I don't think so as much for 5k say.

    My spell went along the lines of 
    3 series race 5ks
    Battersea Park 16.56
    3-4 more 5ks
    Podium 17.00
     last few 5ks

    What you're probably remembering is seeing some 1740s kick in, after the 1656/1700 leapt out, but in truth they were lesser course, or windy, or other such excuse locker stuff ;)
    And the peak 5ks were positioned at the start and the end of the middle portion.

    Having said that, i've probbo over raced since the GSR, in a  sort of bid to expunge how that one went. But in effect I've done the opposite, lengthened the perceived underpar feeling :)




  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps Wool, as long as it's not like the "lads" group chat (not the TVXC one), where they annihilate everyone who isn't on the group!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    RicF said:
    Ric that article looks more along the lines of over training. I had a scan of the symptoms and there's stuff like consistent muscular aches, lack of appetite, regularly feeling ill which im not at.

    SG, clearly you didn't read it? 

    It's about a fundamental training principle, not about over training.

    Try again. 

    I read it, and NOT following their advice would then lead to over training.
    However, I don't especially think what they're saying don't do, is what I have been doing?
    Otherwise I'd have probably known about it earlier than 8 years into this thread, and would have probably missed at least one day injured the last 2 years...

    I don't think I'm by any means a "destroy yourself" type in training, or leave a session utterly ruined! And I'm not mentally fried, or dreading workouts.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Yeah, it is just a casual observation, SG. I know Bus said your style wasn't the issue with XC but I am not sure if I agree. You may be in much better form than the XC results suggest.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Reg - i think you read that from Bus a bit too casually as well ;)
    Bus disagreed with ME when I said I'm not a XC type. But then he's a generous guy with his support.

    I'd still be confident about getting under 18 for 5k for instance, so i'm not in too bad a place, I think it's just this little run down spell and losing a few races recently that can play a little bit of havoc when you live it so much!
  • Hopefully it's just a blip SG that will pass with time. Impossible to remain on top form all the time, regardless periodisation and varying training load (thought hat helps!)

    Reg - I was meaning more that its a wake up call to how quickly Wokingham is coming up!

    As for running tops - a pertex windproof is virtually as breathable as wearing a second long sleeve top, just as light, and doesn't get heavy when wet. The difference is, it keeps off the wind, which makes all the difference between being warm and being cold. If its not windy, then it doesn't matter. 

    Something resembling speed work at lunchtime today. Went for the trusty old 0.5M reps of 90 sec rec after a slow couple of miles warm up.  Aimed at 5 reps, at a pace that felt hard, but doable, to start with.  I decided 4 reps was enough for current form though. Came out OK - 2:59, 3:01, 2:59, 2:54. Legs felt OK afterwards as well, so happy enough with that as its the first time I've done anything around or under 6mM pace for some time.

  • I'd edited that comment after posting.

    I get you now Bus.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    No SG, that wasn't the message. That was the version that fitted your current agenda.

    The message was slow down and in time, you will develop the ability to run faster.

    Can't see a problem with that idea myself. 

    And the last 12 days easy mileages have been 7,15,7,8,8,15,10,14,10,14,10,14

    🙂

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