Over 60's training (Part 2)

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  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    Graham,
    Well done, I know how draining xc can be, so great progress for you.
    It is interesting to see how you are approaching your comeback. You started very cautiously, low mileage, no racing, steadily adding a bit more intensity, including intervals recently.
    It is good to see the progress but will you get close to where you were before your feet problem?
    I am just ahead of you on the age curve but not by much so I think I know how you feel as you ramp back up.
    This is a totally different prospect to my 32 min 10k training of 40 years ago. It is much more intimidating but in some ways less frustrating as the path to progress is obvious, run more.
    Mick
  • Graham
    well done on the xcountry - and the lack of mud!  A very good time over a tough sounding course - those short, steep hills upset rhythm and breathing!

    John
    these youngsters eh- showing up the elders! 

    alehouse 
    not that you'r competitive or anything................:-)
    and another one with a family member who can can wipe the floor with their parent without training.
    My son was exactly the same and it looks like my g'kids are going to be doing likewise very soon too..........

    Mick
    pleased to hear that there is some improvement in your condition - looks, as they say, aren't everything :)
    I didn't know that you could catch shingles more than once - doubly pleased I have had the jab!

    Your graph illustrates Gary Player's quote - "the more I practice, the luckier I get"

    However there is also the very important fact that as one ages the muscles in the body do deteriorate. Training can help retard the  rate of degradation but cannot stop it.  The DNA in the mitochondria gets damaged /broken into shorter strands which do not repair as easily as in younger bodies.

    Yes I have found my Garmin VO2 calculation based upon the few runs I have done. It is 40 which looks about right for my current state of fitness or lack of it

    The last time I was running well (back in April 2013!!) and in full raining mode I did a calculation then and it came out at 43.76.  Interestingly the times it produced for training and training load were as follows

    Long slow runs              80-90% of mileage                      9:10m/m or slower

    Lactate/anaerobic
     threshold                     1 per week <10% of mileage        7:40m/m

    Interval VO2 max
    pace                             <5-10% of mileage                      6:34m/m

    Interval training
    faster than VO2 max     <4-8% of mileage                        6:18m/m for 800m pace

    I thought those figures were quite amusing/depressing considering my current condition and a VO2 max that is not much reduced - I can't even get to the long slow run effort pace!

    dave 
    I think I may have caught some of your CBA itis  :/
    felt really carp this morning despite it being perfect running conditions and struggled to do 2 miles. Worse I felt really fatigued and almost back to the state before my diagnosis and medication so need to get it sorted



  • Mick - thanks for the impressive metrics (and optic!). Indeed you are spot-on. I managed a 5 miler this morning and then met up with some old (and I mean older) ex-colleagues for a gentle walk. Guess who the limping one was? Then 2 hours sitting in the pub stiffened me up. My pals all think it's mildly funny that the 'fittest' (and youngest) one of the party is the one who appears to be half-crippled: a man in search of the balance that you rightly mention.

    Alehouse - too right; no probs being beaten by a total stranger but not by a mate! Just don't let him show you his AG score. His standard on one run a week sounds impressive. 

    Dave -sounds like your lad is a chip off the old block? Hope he came back with a medal...…….. 


    Graham - good stuff; well run. Sounds tough being an VM70 up against VM65s.


    TS - you join Mick with your admirable quantitative analysis. I think I belong to the Ignorance is Bliss School of Runners!


    Will have a rest day Monday.
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    TS,
    Sorry to hear about the heavy fatigue, I can imagine how frustrating that must be.
    My muscles have clearly changed since I turned 60 but it is hard to quantify exactly how.
    I have worked out in the gym consistently since then so I can quantify how 'strong' I am compared to over 10 years ago. The difference is minor, I may even be stronger in some exercises.
    I am dramatically slower when it comes to my running.
    My running paces look remarkable similar to yours back then, although my vo2max was measured by a local lab at 48.7. 
    According to garmin it is around 43 right now but they do provide a pretty plot on garminconnect.


    So like you I do not think my speed is limited by my VO2max.

    I still have good flexibility and range of motion in my joints and based on my recent gait analysis am still mechanical sound despite favouring my right knee. 
    However even if I try a short distance, a few hundred metres, at a very hard pace it will cost me heavily. My legs will be stiff within hours and I may even have a longer term injury. If I back off a little I can do a typical interval session. An all out sprint is just not on.

    Sorry to go on but as a life long runner I do find these new challenges interesting.

    John,
    I run with a group of friends who age from 60 to 70. We have been running together for many years and would often go for a coffee after our morning run. We would sit and chat for an hour or so before leaving.
    As I was the oldest I was the first to start complaining but how fast I would stiffen up after our run but the others soon joined me.
    Avoiding that stiffing up is a good habit to get into. I usually run in the morning and then have lunch and walk my dog for a few km and that helps a lot. Sitting around is not good.

    Mick
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Graham - well done ;  good XC racing there, and encouraging increase in pace.  Bodes well for the relays.
     
    Mick - my flexibility is terrible - an area I must  work on  . . . .
     
    TS - sorry you felt rubbish this morning - lets hope it was simply CNBA , or a one-off bad day.  
     
    John - as it happens, he did come back with a team bronze medal (he was 3rd scorer for his club).  
     
    CNBA - yes, as TS alludes, have had this badly this week, but forced myself out for 4 miles at 7pm today, so 17 for the week, but 5 were on Monday (NYE), so only 12 for the year to date :/     Must start afresh tomorrow . . . .      

    Age Grading - check out 114th place in yesterday's local parkrun . . 
    http://www.parkrun.org.uk/sheffieldhallam/results/latestresults/   

    Dave
  • Some interesting stuff, particularly from Mick

    Over the last 18 months I have upped my flexibility and to a degree lower body strength work: this has mainly been re-hab whilst I have been recovering from various injuries. I am obviously a slow learner and should have listened to a running friend (now in his 80s) who on my 40th birthday said that the two things I should keep going are flexibility and speed; years of longer running will look after the stamina side of things as long as those years are topped up with a fortnightly longer run. Pretty sure he was right. And an all out sprint is definitely not on at present: far too great a risk of injury.
     
    Just about to set off for my longest run since May 2017 (about an hour) and will discuss all this with the M73 that I am running with! I am currently trying to do three sessions of Pilates type exercises a week plus single leg presses for my Achilles, etc. Not very exciting! I am, though, gradually getting more flexible and probably stronger to a degree. 

    Birch:  look forward to hearing of some decent running this week...and look at 45th in these results... http://www.parkrun.org.uk/fletchermoss/results/latestresults/


    John: my mate from the above parkrun did indeed get a higher age-grading and it certainly won't be mentioned! 

    Good racing Graham!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Mick - I recall that you are a serious gym-man as well as a runner. Interesting that your strength is holding up so well. Is this across all major muscle groups?  I'm a bit less into strength training than I was but it seems that muscle memory works better than recovering running endurance i.e. I can get back to decent strength (by my mediocre standards) after a lay-off quicker than I can recover my running performance.

    Dave - great news for you son! As for the age grade scores (inc the one from alehouse) they are really impressive. A couple of weeks ago a visiting VW 50-54 notched up 96%+ on our local course. Amazing!


    Alehouse - I think I agree that the short fast stuff does more damage than the long slow stuff. This seems to reflect my own experience. My problem is that I enjoy the short fast stuff much more than the long slow stuff. Like you (at the moment), an hour would be a long run for me. After about 50 minutes I'm struggling. 
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    maybe we could set up a "head to head" for these speedy ladies - agents' fees can be discussed :)  
     
    hope your hour's run was satisfactory, alehouse - started my week with an hour or so too - my 6 miler done nice and steady.  
     
    John - no marathons (velodrome or otherwise) any time soon, then ;) 

    Dave
  • 70 minutes off-road here. Very slow with lots of talking! Only 10.68k covered, which is fine. Will see how the legs are tomorrow; Achilles and calf struggled on the softer grassy ks but seemed to recover on the firmer sections. Good to run in company! Same time next week, hopefully, although my M73 companion is racing 10k cross country on Saturday so depends how he recovers. 

    I would love to do some shorter and quicker stuff...but won't even be thinking about it until it is considerably warmer. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • ColumbaColumba ✭✭✭
    Hello all. Sorry to hear about the progress of the shingles, Mick, but good that you've got some medication for it. As I understand it, shingles is caused by the same virus as chicken-pox, but it isn't "caught"; if you had chicken pox in childhood the virus can lurk for decade after decade in your nerve endings (or somewhere) and flare up if the immune system becomes less efficient (as apparently it does in "the elderly").  Laughed at your comment about "as long as I can get there before TS". Competitive, you two? Not a bit of it.
    Graham - correct, no parkrun near me, but I did the Newtown one last Saturday, a mere 30 miles away. Got in under 40 minutes, and ahead of the only other lady in my age category! (ahead of 22 people, indeed, which rather surprised me. Must be the get-fit-in-January contingent). There will be a parkrun starting up in Builth Wells sometime soon, probably in February, and that's only 7 miles away. I'll be there!
    JB - congratulations on Young Bateman's pb! Undoubtedly you've been setting him a good example. I'm encouraged to set an annual mileage target by recording all my running (and swimming etc.) on the Fetcheveryone website. You can set yourself a target and watch your progress in relation to it via a little graph, which I like. You mention that an hour is a "long run" for you. I count anything over an hour and a quarter as a long run, though in terms of mileage it isn't many people's ideas of long. Birch's plan to run 1,210 miles over the next 8 months is staggering!   
  • Columba - your age-grading would have been pretty good then if you got under 40 minutes - will be great when that Parkrun starts up near you, you will be able to go and set an age-grade record.

    Torque Steer - you don't sound your usual perky self. Just think if you get out there at least it isn't hot as hell as it is here!

    Birch - great that you have such a wonderful mileage goal. I have no idea how many miles I have run.

    John Bateman - best goal of all - to be injury free!

    Graham - so neat that you are still able to compete in x-country - well done.

    Birch/Alehouse - very impressive times and age-gradings of those W65-69 ladies - would be great to see them in a race together.

    I managed to take off a few more seconds at Western Springs parkrun on Saturday - 29.07 Age grade 74.01%.

    Followed it up the next day by walking nearly 20km in two sessions - about 12km in the morning and the other 8km in the afternoon. My son wanted to walk 39kms for his 39 years so I managed some of it. All family members took part except for the youngest - all taking turns to do part of it. There were drinks stops, and even pizza and beer stops once 30km was achieved. A stinking hot day.


  • Dave - you remembered my velodrome effort. I'm still trying to forget it!

    Columba - Many thanks. Well one of my clan has to be performing and it's beginning to look like I might be handing over the baton to him sooner or later. I tried Fetch and submitted a few blogs but then I kind of drifted away. But it's a good site with much 'functionality'. Well done on the parkrun.

    NZC - I detect an upward arc  on performance levels. Is it ever too hot to run down your way? 

    Ran a very unsatisfactory tiddly 3 miles today. Need to give myself a talking to. Even better a visit to 'power of ten' to check out my local rivals. That should give me some motivation.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    alehouse - how are the legs after your 70 mins?   

    Columba, NZC - fine going at parkrun - and impressive walking miles in the heat, NZC. Sounds a splendid birthday for your son !  
     
    John - maybe you should find an event to focus on, as I said I intended (but have yet to do)  :/    16 miles so far this week in 3 runs

    Dave
  • Dave - good point as that would provide a focus. But as 5k is my 'natural' distance and my local parkrun is the quickest around I have an event every week (indeed perhaps this is too frequent as I don't peak for it).
    However, I found some inspiration today and knocked 40 seconds off my 4K hill repeats time from last week.
    I wonder if I am alone in the pattern of my performances as I seem to do all my PBs in Spring/early summer. Thus at the back of my mind this is the time I'll target for quick times (and this it's all rather self-fulfilling!).
    Anyone else have a time of year when they tend to habitually peak??
  • Dave: slight hip niggle, but am sure it will pass. Legs just generally felt tired, rather than anything specific: a good feeling to have! Hip also niggled a little during an hour's Pilates type exercises yesterday, but nothing on today's run.

    John: these days I tend to be at my quickest from mid May to mid August...but that is probably because there are more races (parkruns apart!) during this period including several local 5k series (too many in fact so likely just to do the fastest course, which is the Sale Sizzler).
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • morning all

    Ceal, who used to be a regular on here, used to win the Hyde Park 5K competition (10 counting races a year minimum) with an average AG of >97% over several years!!

    Columba
    good news about the nearly local parkrun and well done on your recent outing and leaving so many behind you :)

    If anyone is interested in the ageing process and muscular reaction read this  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1600-0838.2009.01084.x

    It's one of the many papers in my library on the subject - abstract below

    Aging is characterized by loss of spinal motor neurons (MNs) due to apoptosis, reduced insulin‐like growth factor I signaling, elevated amounts of circulating cytokines, and increased cell oxidative stress. The age‐related loss of spinal MNs is paralleled by a reduction in muscle fiber number and size (sarcopenia), resulting in impaired mechanical muscle performance that in turn leads to a reduced functional capacity during everyday tasks. Concurrently, maximum muscle strength, power, and rate of force development are decreased with aging, even in highly trained master athletes. The impairment in muscle mechanical function is accompanied and partly caused by an age‐related loss in neuromuscular function that comprise changes in maximal MN firing frequency, agonist muscle activation, antagonist muscle coactivation, force steadiness, and spinal inhibitory circuitry. Strength training appears to elicit effective countermeasures in elderly individuals even at a very old age (>80 years) by evoking muscle hypertrophy along with substantial changes in neuromuscular function, respectively. Notably, the training‐induced changes in muscle mass and nervous system function leads to an improved functional capacity during activities of daily living.

    You can quote that to anyone who says - "why bother?" :)

    NZC
    well done on pushing up that AG - I won't be able to catch you now ;)  despite my alleged competitive nature

    Yes I was feeling a bit despondent after Sunday's effort plodded a 3 miler on Monday and then was in London on Tuesday just getting back in time for the Hash in the evening.
    Felt vaguely carp during the first 3 miles and then turning a corner onto a long straight ill-lit path I know very well I was overtaken by someone moving very swiftly indeed. There have been several newcomers of late so I wasn't sure who it was, and not being competitive at all, I reluctantly closed up on their shoulder and stayed with them.
    The pace went up even more and I sat in there for 300m or so and found I could keep matching it, thinking "who the hell can run this fast in the Hash?" so I pulled alongside and found out that it was a complete stranger who had just happened to pass us at the corner!!!
    Of course having  got into that situation I couldn't back off, could I, so I increased pace again knowing that the end of the path was about 150m away and he then had to hang on to me. At the end of the path I turned round and ran back to the rest pretending it was my plan all along to be greeted by gales of laughter!!
    The next 2 miles were very tough....................
    ...........and my legs next day told me all about it.
  • Alehouse - agree that there are more opportunities in that part of the year. It's a bit more than that for me as each spring I feel an overwhelming desire simply to get out there and run (as fast as I can, or more realistically as fast as I can't!). 

    TS - that's a nice little anecdote illustrating a medical condition called 'Runner's Pride'. I cannot stand being overtaken and almost always will 'give chase'. You then have the challenge of working out how far you'll keep going before (sometimes) fading and being re-overtaken by someone who is cruising along and not really aware there's a race in progress. Or someone who is aware and then accelerates. (It's the same on a bike, for some of us.) You can end up looking very silly but in my case no more silly than when I started.


    A second day in a row of enjoyable training. Today, went to a park and ran around it at various speeds for 30 minutes. Tomorrow a bit of a bike ride, trying not to chase anyone who overtakes me (at least I can blame my bike).
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    John - excellent couple of days training, and encouraging times on your reps session (was this 4 x 1K)?  
     
    alehouse - yes, the "slightly battered", tired feeling, is very satisfying  . . .   

    TS - 97% !!   can't really add anything to that !!   Actually, I remember ceal posting; was when I just lurked . . .   
    brilliant "racing whilst training" there - something I really try not to get involved in these days :/ 
     
    8 miles today - down to the park, 2 x the parkrun route , and back up  
     
    Dave
  • Mick6Mick6 ✭✭✭
    TS,
    In your quoted paper the authors identify an attribute they call RFD(Rapid Force Development). This is different from max muscle strength or power. It too declines with age and also responds to training.
    If I look at my own decline I feel that I have maintained strength and power but have lost RFD. One exercise that I need to do more of is accelerations as when you do strides. I do do them and feel noticeably lighter on my feet after doing them.
    Thanks for the post, not an easy read but interesting.
    I too have been guilty of chasing the wrong person.
    As a 35 year old I would often do my training along the canal downtown which is a very popular spot. Back then I would never meet anyone who could stay with me so would enjoy burning runners off. One day I was doing intervals and a runner came up along side me hardly breathing hard. As you can guess it quickly turned into a race. He teased me for a while and then just took off.
    The following weekend I was watching a major 10k race with runners from all over the world and who was in front the very person who had put me in my place. It turned out to be John Halverson a Norwegian Olympian.

    Columba,
    I have had shingles before in my 20s. It was a bad experience then and is a bad experience now. The meds contained the spread and stopped an infection and that has been a plus.
    I chatted to my doc yesterday and she was surprised that I could handle the pain with only Advil and put it down to my fitness level. Most patients require prescription pain killers. She has me scheduled for the vaccine next year.

    I am feeling a lot stronger now but still have a lot of pain. As the scabs and rash is on the right side of my head and face I cannot shave so am looking a little wild.

    Mick
  • Dave - yes more or less 4 x 1km 

    So a bike ride today. This was a bit of a shocker. I've not really done much on a bike for a few months but I thought my running fitness would be useful. But I found it a real struggle. I was overtaken by all shapes and sizes and was badly running out of steam even at a modest pace over a modest distance. A few years ago I was training seriously for duathlons and it fooled me into thinking that I was half decent on a bike. Illusion shattered!
  • John- pretty tough on the bike - don't think I could even get on one. Mick - I remember in my first marathon when women runners were  few trying to keep with one woman and getting to about 8 miles and feeling completely stuffed and the guy beside me said you know she's not going the whole way. I couldn't believe it. Torque  Steer - you must be feeling better if you're taking people on! Birch -  Ceal was amazing- she had British records. 
  • Another Parkrun - this one East End Park run   New Plymouth. Very hot  undulating  28.38 AG 75.26% pretty happy with that. 

  • John
    it could a name for a new IPA - Runner's Pride :p
    There are an awful lot of folk out on bikes nowadays.
    Harrogate is the base for the Tour de Yorkshire and the World Champs this year and the route goes past my house. There are already groups of riders trying it out - and finding the hill up from a hump back bridge with a sharp 90 degree turn after it, which slows them to a crawl, pretty tough

    Mick
    nice one. Having run with Olympic class athletes in the past I know only too well the  difference between them and ordinary mortals!
    It is a dense paper but RFD manifests itself in various ways. As one runs faster the body has to absorb more shock and the ability of the muscles to do that, or not,  greatly aids recovery afterwards with less muscle soreness
    I have another paper somewhere in my library on that element - I will dig it out 

    NZC
    well done on your improved AG - up an away despite the heat
    I thought I was a bit better after my excursion on Tuesday so I slunk off to  the Parkrun this morning hoping to break that 70% whilst Graham was occupied with other races ;)
    Unfortunately it had rained quite hard overnight and so the course had been altered so as not to wear away too much grass so it was a little bit more twisty and slightly more undulating than normal and a blustery wind was getting up - plus there was 550 folk on the starting line!

    Having got my excuses in I only ran 26:25 which was 35 seconds slower than the last effort so only a 68.45% AG.
    I probably felt too comfortable running it to seriously threaten getting over 70% although my avHR was 148 (79%WHR) with a max of 158 (88% WHR) so there was a bit of effort plus the new course measured a bit long or I ran round a  lot of folk!
    Not too despondent................................... yet
  • Torque Steer - I would be over the moon with 26.25 - well done!. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I think Runner's Pride would be an appropriate addition to the alehouse, TS! And good that you pinned a number on, so to speak.


    Well done, NZC: definitely heading in the right direction. 

    "Comfortable" parkrun for me: did this course two weeks ago in just under 23; today was 25:16. Am happy with that as I ran it well within myself and it is quicker than 4 or 5 months ago where I was over 26 with a lot more effort. Still not run a parkrun hard, although two weeks ago was close, as was last week on a different course. Today was effectively a progressive tempo after upping the training this week. Would be silly to do anything harder. Expect to be around 35/36k for the week following on from last week's 32, with all of it at around 5:50 to 6 mins per k pace, and nearly all off road. And lots of layers, today included: not the time of year for running hard...in the Northern Hemisphere anyway, cross country racing apart.

    And Newcastle have equalised (probably because I have invested in two Chelsea defenders for my fantasy team!).
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Mick - I only shave every 3 days or so, and have shaggy hair, so "wild" is familiar !   

    John - I never could get on with cycling - back in my "heyday" running-wise, I went cycling with a pal - a weekend cyclist who carried fair timber around his middle- for a 20 mile spin, and, in the nicest possible way, he destroyed me on the hills (a running strength of mine).   
     
    TS, NZC -  excellent parkrunning, in differing ways - Christine , 75% superb, and TS - those look like reasons, not excuses, and still a 68% bagged . . .   
     
    no such expertise here, but a satisfying run in other ways this morning - 5 miles nice, easy loop to the park, where I had very convivial chat with a "parkrun tourist" from another forum I post on. Did the run (868 participants) , so pretty crowded, but official time of 25:00 (66% AG)  was a really sobering experience, I can't pretend I took it easy, and my previous "proper" one (i.e. not jogging for 5 mins before "trying"),  was 23:25, a couple of months back . . .   so, pretty despondent with this.   Carried on afterwards, and bumped into a chum , so ran with him, and ended up with 17 - furthest I've run for a while. Finished feeling ok (had been slow, of course), but pleased with a good long run.  So, as I said, mixed feelings.  I've maybe put a couple of pounds on over the holiday period, and since the XC series finished in December, I've done mainly easy plodding, so perhaps time for some of alehouse's 2 minute efforts . . .      any thoughts, sages ?  
     
    Dave
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    BirchIf you can run 17 miles there's not too much wrong! The speed will come back. Personally I would gradually introduce some fartlek...which may initially include a stretch or two of around two minutes. Just a little, then the next week a little more, then the next week...etc. Progressive consistent consistency is the key phrase! 

    re running with Olympic athletes, I have run with quite a few. Fortunately they have been invariably female so a similar standard to a good standard male club runner. Running with male Olympic athletes was far too hard!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    thanks, alehouse - good (and valued) advice and reassurance  . .  as an aside, the combination of  a long run, with 3 miles hard effort included, has certainly left my legs knowing about it today !!  

    Dave
  • Mick, i had to smile at your tale of unwittingly running with an Olympian. You must have been pretty speedy though to keep pace with him for a while, even if he did pull away. You were asking if I thought I could get back to where I was before my foot problem. Looking at my diary, I ran a 23:35 5K parkrun a few weeks before the foot became a real problem. I'd like to think i could get back to that sort of time given a few months of consistent training. It won't be sooner than that though based on current progress.

    TS, sorry to hear you so despondent a few days ago but you seem to be a bit more upbeat now and ran a decent parkrun, especially considering the new twists and turns. They make a real difference.

    John, interesting to read your experience on your bike ride. I still get out on mine now and again but never, and I mean never, overtake another cyclist. It's very different to running (to state the obvious I suppose!).

    alehouse, I take encouragement from you running a 26 minute 5K a few months ago but a 23 minute one recently. I agree with you about the value of fartlek runs.

    Columba, very good news that you'll soon have a parkrun quite near you. It'll be great for you to be able to run with others.

    Christine, another very good 75% parkrun, especially on an undulating course.

    Dave, maybe a disappointing parkrun on this occasion but well done on doing the 17 miler.





  • Graham LGraham L ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    It was the XC relay race this morning. It was so windy that most clubs abandoned putting up their tents and settled for just using a groundsheet. Dry and mild though. The race was three legs of a two-lap 1.8 miles course. The area available was quite small so involved quite a few sections where you ran back on yourself but the host club Birtley had stepped in at short notice to keep the annual fixture going and did a very good job. No real mud but there were two  short but very steep banks on each lap. So proper cross-country.

    I ran second leg and was reasonably pleased with a time of 15:56 at an average pace of 8:49, taking the strong wind and steep hills into account. My team was first in the M65 category but to be honest i'm not sure there was more than one other team competing with us. Funnily enough that was my other club, which also has a number of old men!

    We've got a voucher each, which I haven't seen yet but seem to remember is quite generous.


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