The Middle Ground

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  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    parkrun went to plan, DT, in that I set off conservatively (uphill start so it has to be) and then ran progressively i.e. each k was quicker than the previous one. Had to push the last k to get away from a friend so that I have bragging rights in the pub! Undulating course so was about a minute slower than on last week's flat course, so that was about what it should be. 
    Village bakery half is supposed to be good!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Alehouse - glad the parkrun went well. In answer to your question, I don’t do any strengthening or stretching really, which I know is not ideal!

    8 miles today which went by nicely. First week of proper training starts this week with a tempo run on Wednesday planned.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Stretch, AD! You know it will be good for your cricket!

    Longest run today since May 2017: 70 minutes off road with M73 friend. Will see what damage has been done in the morning!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • espenhbespenhb ✭✭✭
    Running three plus days a week at the moment, building a base for training for my first half marathon in september. Playing around with adding some speed in addition to the long steady miles.

    Plan is to have one high intensity workout every week, and to do each of them one time over a period of four weeks(three weeks on, one «off») to mix things up a bit.

    Will do the local 5k parkrun this saturday as this weeks high intensity workout, and again in about a month. Total length will be around 10k(running to and from). 1k intervals next week. Four of them, adding one for every four week period. Again aiming at 10+k total. Should have at least one more high intensity workout to go to. Any ideas? Hills? 200ms? Longer tempo work? Or some fartlek-ish combination with a couple of hills and a few 200m all outs?
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    What's your total planned weekly mileage (not the cut back week)?

    Do you have any benchmark data?  fastest 5k/10k  Any other running background information is helpful.
  • espenhbespenhb ✭✭✭
    Working my way up from 25k, or 15 miles, to wherever I top out (probably around 65k/40 miles by late april). Ten percent at a time, and most of it will be done running to and from work.

    Fastest 5k and 10k on record were both set when I joined a team marathon(10,55k/6,55 miles) last september at 20 hours notice. 21:42 for 5k, 44:29 for 10k.

    Been running on and off since I stopped trying to make a career as a road cyclist seven years ago, but this is the first time I'm actually planning for something. Before it has been more of a «I feel like going for a run today»-approach with long periods without any exercise. Seven years ago training was more or less a full time job, and I coached myself, doing 25-35 hours on the bike every week.

    Last four months of 2018 was the first longer period of time where I frequently laced up my running shoes. Did anywhere from one 15k/9 mile run a week to 30k/18 miles spread throughout the week. Even did my first interval workout in seven years in december, doing 3x1k at around 4:10.

    My daughter is being born around the end of april, so I've planned two weeks more or less off from the moment my wife goes into laber before starting the more specific training for an autumn half marathon. The plan for that 12 week period is under construction as I figure out what works for me, what doesn't, and how much time I actually have to spend. Goal is to finish somewhere in the 80 to 90 minute range, but as I'll have a whole bunch of new commitments come april that goal is tentative at best.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Hi Espenhb, and welcome.

    I follow the simple method of one long run a week, one tempo/threshold run and one interval session each week (if possible) and fill up the rest of your weekly miles with one or two further shorter easy paced runs.

    Congratulations on the new arrival - if this is your first (?) then just be aware that whilst you might hope that your ability to train (both due to fatigue and simply having the time to get out of the house!) will only be disrupted for a couple of weeks, from my experience it impacts things for much longer than that! I don't think I managed a run at all for a month and even after that it made training feel like hard work for quite some months (and I also felt even more guilty going out for a run when it meant leaving my wife at home alone dealing with a newborn whilst I was out doing my own thing!).

    Alehouse - sounds like a good run. My long runs are coming in around 70-75 minutes currently too.

    Rest days here yesterday and today (as usual for a Monday and Tuesday). Tempo session planned tomorrow night.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    well done on the long run. Alehouse. Any morning reaction?

    Espen, you must have a very good idea of the principles of training to be cycling at that level, which I don't think are that different between cycling and running. Though I think in cycling more is gained from sessions as opposed easy cycling, whilst in running you can go a fair way jut by consistent easy running.

    Why stop at 4 different forms of intervals. You could try mile reps, hill reps, longer steadier tempo. The key right now however is building a manageable load and doing it consistently and making a habit of it.

  • espenhbespenhb ✭✭✭
    AndrewD: Good luck with the rest! That's always the hardest part. Especially day two of two if the legs are feeling good. The plan you're following is more or less what I'm gunning for as I start the more race-specific training in May. Just looking for some short simple high intensity workouts to throw into the base building right now.

    It's my first, and I know I'll be strapped for time. The first two weeks after she's born I have leave with pay from work. Those weeks I probably won't run at all, unless I for some reason feel a strong need to get out of the house for half an hour to clear my head. After that the majority of my training will be done running to and from the office instead of driving or taking public transport. Saves a ton of time, but I know it will be hard. I think it should be manageable though. And with running to and from work, spending the same time as I would if I drove or took public transport, I should be able to rack up somewhere between 30k/18 miles and 65k/40 miles a week).

    DT19: The biggest difference seems to be that there aren't many quick bursts of speed when you do a half or full marathon, or any other longer races. No five minutes all out followed by an hour easy. So I agree that you can get a lot farther with just slow and steady in running than in cycling. Another big difference is that I'm used to training for a season, with races starting in March and ending in October. That doesn't leave much room for taking twelve weeks to just log miles.

    The reason I'm stopping at three or four different forms is just to keep it easy and simple in the base building period. Having one hard workout for each week of the period makes it less tedious, especially for someone like me who doesn't really like to do hard workouts. Doing the same three or four every period gives some ground for comparison. I agree completely on building a manageable load, doing it consistently and making a habit out of it. I just feel like adding some speed to the mix both to mix it up and to build some speed, strength and oxygen uptake so I don't «start at scratch» come may. Also: Racing is fun. Even if it's just a park run.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    If you can run to or from work easily then that makes sense. I wish I had that option sometimes.

    Are you aiming to jump straight into a HM or maybe look to spend this year getting yourself back into the rhythms of training and perhaps just do 5k/10k races?

    I would have thought up to 40 miles a week would be perfect for 10k training, with long runs up to maybe 12 miles and your other sessions getting you up between 35-40 miles per week by the peak of your training block.


  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    I am fully prepared for my running to take a nose dive this week.  Baby will be coming out on Thursday.  Getting long runs in has been close to impossible given that my wife can't cope with my two children whilst also being 30+++ weeks pregnant.  
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Good luck for Thursday JGav (and Mrs JGav of course!)
  • espenhbespenhb ✭✭✭
    AndrewD: The goal for the season is a HM in early september. That is the dare between, some friends and a few family members. Will be doing a few 5k and 10ks in the leadup to that, but that’s mostly for training and gauging progress. I’ve always done better in long races, and that’s what I enjoy most as well. 

    Running to and from work is a blessing. Really happy about that option.

    JGav: Best of luck come thursday!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Tempo sesh for me last night. Aim was to do 2.5 miles at around 7.05-7.10 pace within an overall 5 mile run.

    The tempo miles came out at 7.05; 7.06 and 7.00 pace. Had the stitch reappear again in the last 0.3 miles, but I took DT's advice and pushed on through it. Probably a result of pushing too hard in the last half mile, but I'll keep an eye on this and if the problem keeps reoccurring then I'll have a read up to see what might be causing it.


  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    A boy for the Jgav family. 4 years of training before I can sign up to junior parkrun. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Congrats, J-gav! Do you already have a son as well? I completely forgot your wife was pregnant until you posted it a couple of days ago.

    Well done on keeping going, Andrew.

    Ticking along this week. Sports massage this evening. Weather is about to show up to the party for the weekend after weeks of settled weather.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    2 girls and now a boy.  Not sure what to do with boys, so used to my girls! 

    Did an easy 4 miles yesterday, got my bike setup in the office at home so I should be able to keep up some consistency without leaving the house. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Congratulations JGav! I liked your comment about junior parkrun too!

    5 easy miles planned for this evening.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    5 miles ground out last night, felt rubbish to be honest. Weird how sometimes the shorter, easier paced runs often feel the hardest. Must be psychological.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Did 4 more really sluggish fartlek miles on a Friday, but today’s long run felt great! 8 miles again,on a much hillier and off-road route than last week to bring the week’s mileage to 22 (compared to 20 last week).
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Sleepless nights is great for weight loss.  2kg down in a week!  

    Not back running yet, I hope I'll be able to get out for a 5k within a few days.  Need the running to clear my head.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    J-gav, yes I guess you are up functioning and burning calories for longer!

    Good going, Andrew.

    Brass monkey went far from plan yesterday. I wasn't up for this since the silly weather forecast kicked in on Thursday. I had already scaled my pacing plan back from pb pace to 6.30 in view of the conditions and I went out accordingly. Mile 5 was a wind battering over and open and entirely exposed path between fields. Then mile 6 was straight into the wind and this just finished me. Due to the nature of the course, the first 5 was to be a cross wind from the right, then 2 ish miles straight into wind then back the same way with a  cross wind from the left. I could see no point fighting on just to post a random time that was respectable but miles from a pb. I plodded out the second half coming in at 83.43 so what I essentially ended up with was 16 miles with 13 a bit faster than mp.

    So consequently, whilst I am a bit tired today as it was still a big session and I had to do a lot of travelling, muscle soreness is very low so I won't spend all week recovering which might have been the case had I tried to cling on to be 2 minutes faster.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Unlucky with the way the weather panned out for you DT. How long until your next half?

    Enjoying my usual Monday rest day today. I've had to shunt my Wednesday tempo session forwards by 24 hours so will end up doing that tomorrow night. 3 miles at tempo, all being well. Hoping to avoid a stitch for the third tempo run in a row!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    5 weeks until Wrexham. A less tiring excursion as it doesn't involve an overnight stay etc, which I think never helps. I've never raced a good half when I have stayed away from home the night before.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Bad luck DT - weather is always a big issue with Brass Monkey - either wind or snow. My PB is 90:06 and that was a dead cert sub-90 until I hit a headwind in the last mile. If you want a "wind safe" flat HM, try this one... http://lakevyrnwyhalfmarathon.com/race.html

    No running here for 5-6 weeks, apart from a single parkrun on 22nd December. Not sure when my knee will allow me to run again.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited January 14

    Dr Dan, sorry to hear of your knee issue.

    Yes, a lot of midlanders tend to do Lake Vyrnwy as it's quite a late start time and only about 90 minute drive. Every year however it seems to measure quite short on strava traces. I accept that there are usually all sorts of reasons quoted by runners for that, but add in the fact that there are a huge number of unexpected times run by people suggests to me it is short.

    3.5m at recovery over lunch.

  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited January 14
    Dan.. sorry to see you're currently crocked.  If it helps the last time I had knee problems (couldn't bend it properly due to falling on it twice within a few weeks) I got a cortisone injection into the knee.  Cost about £70 but it cured me in 4 days and had no further problems.
    DT19.. I was there yesterday and the wind ruined my run too.  I had run my best 5m time for 3 years the week before so confidence was high, all to no avail.  I went for a short recovery run this morning and of course there is barely a breath of wind, sod's law & all that.  My last 4 'A' races.. VOY half was windy and the BM half even windier; VLM was boiling hot and the York Marathon was wetter than on Otter's pocket.  Perhaps one day the weather gods will smile down on us  :(  By contrast I've run the Barca marathon 3 times and the weather has been perfect at all of them - 11-16 degrees, light winds and a blue sky.
    J Gav.. many congratulations, more happiness and chaos ahead ;)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    wardi, yes I did think as I trotted down the canal over lunchtime that the weather was close to perfect for racing!!

    I have suffered the same as also did London and York mara. I can't seem to catch a (weather) break at present. However, prior to 2018 I had a long period where every key race I entered I had close to perfect race conditions so I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

    My frustration with yesterday was the fact that from about 20th December everyday has presented nearly perfect conditions, plus the fact that for me it was a full weekend away with associated costings.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Likewise Dan, hope the knee clears up swiftly.

    Weather looks pretty bleak tomorrow afternoon, so I'm definitely bringing forward tomorrow's tempo run to tonight. Must stick to something around 7.10-7.12 pace rather than drifting close to 7.00 pace and getting a stitch again!

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Tempo section came out at 7.07, 7.09 and 7.07. And no stitch!
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