Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Over 60's training (Part 2)
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
I don't think the formula for recovering short term lost of speed changes as you get older. What does change is what you can do without breaking something.
My experience over the last few years would suggest a very gentle return starting with strides after your easy runs and then introducing fartlek sessions where you run at a hard pace for as long as it feels good. If that works I would then think of some strengthening stuff ie hills and the gym for the legs. If that leaves you with everything stiff working, time for some short fast stuff.
Graham,
Well done on the xc always a bit of a challenge.
Still not ready to try any form of exercise but definitely on the mend.
Mick
Thanks - you will soon be there at your rate of progress
Mick good to hear you are improving
Graham
well done on the xcountry result - vouchers as well! Sounded a tough course profile
alehouse
"comfortable" is never a word I would apply to a 5K so well done on finding it so
dave
parkruns are getting really crowded aren't they - which is good to see in many respects and I normally take up a position near the front and let everyone run round me.
If you can run 17 miles with a 5K hard effort thrown into the middle then there is nothing wrong with your aerobic conditioning - so we know where the improvement has to be - and that is in lactate tolerance /buffering
Below is an extract from my "library" on papers relating to the mature athlete. although it relates to sprinters it is apposite for others as well
B*gger it - so now I know what to do on a hill near me
talking of despondent - on Saturday afternoon I was in the loft moving some storage boxes - large but not heavy. One of them, containing Xmas baubles and weighing about 2kg, was stuck between some vertical spars and I needed to twist round to get it out - no problem in weight terms but unfortunately the twisting motion set by back off into spasm - probably the first time in over 3 years since the operation.
It was the annual Hash dinner and awards on Saturday night and by the time we got there I could hardly move - boogieing was definitely off the agenda- and I had to resort to some old time medicinal aids to alleviate pain. Fortunately the bar was open for a long time...................
I have walked a couple of miles for the last two days as movement helps relax the spasmed muscles but it is still painful and not much sleep either
However my new Asics arrived today and a quick test 'run' up and down my garden was positive. Perhaps my Achilles problem was caused by having worn out trainers (or a worn out body more like!). But I'll stop moaning in the light of TS's loft incident!
I'm off to Swansea for a couple of days (work) but will NOT pack my trainers.
Am going to take two pieces of advice from your great post, TS: first of all I won't be putting the decorations in the attic; secondly I will think about hills. Hope your back soon settles; nearly a year since I fractured mine and it is still not happy at times, particularly running down hill, so that is as good a reason as any not to run up in the first place.
Mick: largely with you on the strides, but I prefer to do fartlek first in the cycle at a hard but almost comfortable pace over a variety of distance from about 150 up to 7-800; with strides I find that anything over around 80 metres form is reduced.
And well done Graham!
Wonder if the legs are worse today, Birch!
Ran with my M73 friend this morning but because he had run 10k tough cross country on Saturday (plus put out the course, marshalled and took it down) he only did the first half of my run. I carried on to make it up to 10k, some of which was on very stony ground which displeased my Achilles. Needs a little more managing!
Mick, TS - thanks for your input - I'll definitely re-introduce some intensity - maybe could incorporate strides into a fartlek session - and lots of nearby hills, if I wish to do a few sprints . . . sympathy for your back pain, TS - I occasionally suffer - but I like your remedy
alehouse - DOMS still prevalent today
Dave
enjoy Swansea!
Alehouse
I hadn't realised that you had fractured your back - that sounds pretty traumatic. What happened?
I think about hills all the time - mainly how to get up them!!
However the bit about foot dwell time and stride length do resonate with me. I can just about remember how it felt to run fast and the time one's foot was on the ground was minimal and the curvilinear path of the foot is one that I recognise in my current gait so i will try some remedial actions.
Agree about the baubles!!
Dave
only 1025 miles = pah that's just breaking them in
I haven't used my new ones yet - in fact I had a surprise when a shoe box on my shelf, which I thought I was using to store documents, on opening revealed a box fresh pair of Adidas Adizero's in a particularly vivid yellow colour. They could be worth 2 seconds a mile..............
I have continued with my pain relief self medication and it has helped a lot - still stiff but the neural pain has subsided. I will walk the Hash tonight and delight in seeing everyone having to run back to me for a change and may even short cut to get back to the pub first
alehouse - talking strides, and mulling over your fartlek advice, has given me the idea of introducing Dr Ron's "number-stride" fartlek
Dave
Just about got back into running by October 2017 after 5 months out with a calf/Achilles issue…but then damaged my neck having a tooth out! Several brutal sessions with an osteopath took place, and there was a further 6 weeks or so with no running. I managed to do a little in December but by mid January I was having quite a bit of back pain. Went to the GP on January 31st 2018 as I seemed to have yet another chest infection and thought the back pain was connected with this. She ordered a taxi and sent me straight to hospital as she thought there were pulmonary issues. Had various scans and was told everything heart and chest related was fine. I asked what the scans showed about my back: "I didn't look at the scans on the back as I'm a chest specialist!"
"Can you have a quick look please?"
Two minutes later he was telling me that I had a large fracture of my T7 vertebrae. We still don’t know the cause.
Over the next few months I saw two back specialists and had various repeat scans plus bone density tests. Calcium and vitamin D low but unlikely to be the cause of the fracture, although concerns were raised as I had been taking a supplement for around 10 years as previous fractures in a foot and a shoulder had indicated a tendency towards osteopenia: however this was ruled out as being the cause. Lots of physio/hydrotherapy for the back followed whilst at the same time I was still having tests to determine why I had fractured my back; one of the blood tests came back with questionable results and I was referred to the Christie for possible myeloma (blood cancer) and links with the prostate cancer that I previously had. After a couple of very long weeks' wait I found out on August 1st 2018 that all was ok! Really have never felt so relieved in my life, having been the most anxious ever, and I wasn’t able to run during most of this as I damaged a knee as well! But we still don’t know the cause of the fracture, although I would not be surprised if the brutal treatment from the osteopath was a factor. We’ll never know. And hope your back is settling. Mine is still much weaker than it should be, and will probably remain that way.
re shoes, I always have half a dozen pairs on the go, never wear the same pair two days in a row (except on holiday when I only take one pair). No idea on miles on each but I find the uppers go before the sole anyway.
Birch: if number fartlek is good enough for Dr. Hill.... My trouble would be learning to count.
Achilles was not good on today's run, or rather not good after a short steep uphill. Must stretch later. And avoid short steep hills.
that were a b*gger series of events and no mistake!!
Pleased to hear you came out on the right side eventually but that was an awful long wait for a positive result
There are specialists and specialists but not looking at all angles of a scan sounds remarkably lax - you did well to make him take a look.
I am not a big fan of either osteopaths or chiropractors - there seems to be a bit too much voodoo magic about it all!
I tend just to put on a pair of shoes and run in them until they fall to bits or the soles wear smooth but I do like my Adizeros for races and tempo work - not that I have done much of either recently.
The Hash last night was mainly on soft ground and trails so I gently jogged quite a bit and felt a lot better for it today as a lot of the residual stiffness from the muscle spasm has gone which is good.
London tomorrow so I will exercise by walking up all the various escalators on my travels across town - see what madhouse effect Brexit has produced on the money men!
Came back feeling rotten - bloated (hotel food) and lethargic ( long train journey plus sitting around in a meeting). I'm not a great traveller, although like TS I'll always try to use the London Tube escalators as free work-out!
Alehouse - having just read your full account of various serious physical challenges I feel like a right wimp. I used to see a chiropractor but decided the treatment was more painful than the condition I was being treated for. As for the Achilles, as a fellow sufferer I too am suspicious of hill work.
Will do something short and sharp this evening in my new trainers. If I come through unscathed then I'll try a parkrun on Saturday. It's a twisty, turner of a course (at 'Bugger Bognor') that I quite like because the slowness of the course is the perfect excuse for a slow time.
On Monday evening I did something I hadn't done for well over a year - run with my club on one of their regular weekly training sessions. I've been wary of doing the usual 7 or 8 miles for fear of making my foot worse again but then I found a few folk do a shorter run of around 5 miles.
It was great to meet people again and to run with others rather than by myself. Really enjoyed it. Who knows, I may be able to do one of the longer runs eventually. I've got the fitness now, it's just the foot thing.
This morning we had a heavy snow shower so I abandoned the plan of running a fartlek on pavements and decided to run on my Town Moor grass route. The dusting of snow made it a completely different experience and my trail shoes at the end looked the cleanest they've ever been, all the mud was completely gone. What a nice run it was with the snow and blue skies.
wow that is the runner's injury story of all time. It makes your performance truly outstanding, keep at it for you are a great example to the rest of us.
Graham,
How is your foot thing, have you a better idea as to what it actually is?
If you can still run on grass without snowshoes that would not be considered snow here.
John,
I have been absent from the UK for a long time but still get upset to see and hear how city centres seem to be continually deteriorating. I watch a lot of uk tv and read uk papers daily and hope that it is not a true reflection of British society.
I am due a visit to see all of my relatives but for the first time I find myself postponing even though I would like to see my sisters and their families. When working I did return 3 or 4 times a year so I never lost my Britness and this is the longest I have gone without returning.
On my last trip I was shocked by the pollution around London and even more shock when my sisters said what pollution.
Much improved but still scabby and painful but not long now and I should be trying a run.
I can at least concentrate so working on my software project and may get back to doing some drawing.
Mick
John - did the new shoes complement the sharp session ?
Mick - good news that running is imminent .
TS, Graham -good runs on softer ground - I sought out a mainly dirt/grass route today for another 10 - another 4 x 150m hill on tarmac towards the end.
Dave
nothing like a bit of snow to clean one's shoes
Good running with your club colleagues
John
Swansea in the rain doesn't sound too romantic
Mick
the good news yesterday was that London was bathed in bright sunshine from a blue frosty sky but I know what you mean about normal air quality - one can taste it!!
Better news as well that you are almost over your shingles.
Dave
10 miles plus a hill workout is a very good session indeed - although for a maximum benefit one should be doing the hill sessions on fresh legs - but maybe yours were!!
I did indeed do my workout on the escalators yesterday - the Northern Line gave me some steep hills to negotiate and there aren't many t hat attempt to walk up them all
Lovely dry, crisp and sunny this morning and I set off feeling better about my back -the escalator workout must have helped.
ran 4.15 miles in 39:16 ((9:34m/m) with avHR 132 (67% WHR) and a max of 152 (82%WHR) looking like this
09:53 122 134
09:14 127 136
09:06 132 137
10:03 144 152 Hipps Hill of course
00:59 144 152
I show the boring detail only because I had enough of working on the train home last evening and delved back into my Garmin archives. That HR profile is almost exactly what I would have seen over 5.1 miles a couple of years back so my aerobic capacity is fine - only trouble is I would have been running almost exactly 1 min 15 sec/mile faster for each mile
On a happier note is was good, and quite uplifting, to see Jo Pavey being interviewed on BBC Breakfast news this morning as she confirmed she was going to try and get selected for the next Olympics making it 6 in a row.
I have a lot of time and admiration for her, she just loves running, and the fact that she was cheated out of so many potential medal places by dopers and cheats over the years just doesn't appear to have diminished her enthusiasm for running at all - truly an inspiration.
Dave: as it happened , no! Sometimes (and yesterday was a classic example) I just fizzle out, give up and walk. This is in stark contrast to my younger (30-40) self when I never ever gave up and didn't complete a run. Funny - even if I cut down the pace to a crawl I just lose interest.
TS - Jo Pavey - total role model for all runners; the sort that gives the sport a good name.
parkrun this morning. Not as cold as I thought so my intention of jogging around was revised...a little. Still only 4 degrees so hat, gloves, two tops, shorts, tights were the order of the day. Set off conservatively with the first k in 5:30, with the rest gradually speeding up to 4:32 for the last k. 24:32 on the clock. Fairly comfortable although did have to give myself a bit of a talking to just after 3k. Not a day for fast running but still quicker than planned.
That will be tough doing the park-run then marshalling!
John - did your sister finish?
alehouse - I'd love a Parkrun in those conditions - ain't going to happen here!
I used to run myself out too when I was younger and dnfed a few marathons until my "friends" told me that I would have to pay each of them the equivalent of my entry fee if I pulled out of another marathon. "Touch wood" I've been able to struggle to the end of the marathons I've entered in my older years.
Torque Steer - that would be amazing if Jo Pavey could make it to 6 Olympics - will she try for the marathon? I love watching her run too - she gives it everything!
Birch - it must feel good to be able to do some decent training.
I did another Cornwall Parkrun - only just sneaking under 30 mins - 29.59 AG 71.87% but was only 2nd W65 the other lady ran 29.38 - I saw her and told myself that she was younger than me!
I have been to the specialist about my knee and have had an x-ray and MRI so will find out the results on Wednesday.
TS, agree about Jo Pavey. What a runner. Pleased your back was recovered enough to let you run over 4 miles, even if it was at a slower pace than two years ago.
alehouse, that was a good time considering you weren't running at your hardest.
John, well done to your sister and a decent time yourself.
Columba, yes, I was one of those you met at the LFOTM. A very enjoyable run and cafe afterwards.
Christine, I think Ceal's world record was at 3000m. I know she held at least one British record too. Here's hoping you get good news about your knee on Wednesday.
My planned parkrun yesterday was abandoned because of ice. I managed 23.7 miles this week, the most for well over a year.
your sister did extremely well for a debutante at that age!!
you weren't too shabby yourself
Alehouse
you are letting the tough northern image down with descriptions of such apparel
despite the handicap you still recorded a very good time so when you eventually strip off you will be a lot faster......
Columba
you are quite right about Ceal - she held the W70 world records for 1500m at 6:04 and 5K at 22:06 and also had world leading times for 5K on the road from back in 2011 as well as winning the World Masters 5K championship
They have only recently been broken by Angela Copson ( last year) so they stuck for a long time
Ceal also won the Serpies Hyde Park 5K series with an average AG of 98.8% 0 extraordinarily consistent over several months.
The hill intervals are all about raising one out of the comfort zone. One's body gets used to certain stress levels over time and baulks at going outside them. Ideally one runs the hill intervals over the same stretch of hill going up hard and then jogging back down to repeat consistently until knackered! this elevates the HR and improves lactate tolerance as well as building up strength in the leg muscles and helping to improve stride length. Normally takes about 4-6 weeks for the improvement s to manifest themselves.
NOT to be done more than once a week!
I hope you make the inaugural parkrun - you may be able to set an AG record
NZC
of course she was - and probably had two good legs as well!
I hope the investigations show no major damage - just don't tell the consultant that you are running >70% AG times or you may get chucked out the door!!
Lovely morning here again, cold and crisp and sunny as I did my long run of 5.25 miles in 50:42 (9:38m/m) with avHR of 136 (70% WHR) and a max of 154 (83% WHR) on the usual hill - although it felt higher when I was doing it
09:47 126 135
09:33 131 140
09:26 134 141
09:19 137 142
10:23 146 154
02:13 143 144
It would have been quite steady apart from the hill!!
John - nice work by you too, although you commendably understate - after my sobering performance last week, I have work to do to return to alehouse & JB6 levels . . . and kudos to your sister - that really is a heartening snippet
TS -with reference to above (work to do) - yes I'm going to schedule a weekly hill session (and, if my legs up to it, some fartlek, too) - I've 3 parallel hills nearby, one of 250 metres approx, the others @ 350m, so will utilise these.
NZC - yes, my mileage may be "decent", but (see above), lacking quality. 9.5 yesterday, 5.5 today to complete a 40 mile week.
Splendid AgeGrading by you, NZC - fingers x'd for your scan results.
Graham - good progress, indicated by a yearly high in the week's mileage.
Columba - enjoy your grandmothering - and enjoy Greenwich running . . .
Dave
My sons treatment is going okay so far.He had a scan done after the fourth treatment and the results were good in that the cancer had receded almost entirely.He has now had seven treatments of the twelve planned so it goes on to the end of March.We will be coming home around the 10th of February so we miss a few treatments.
John,great to have you back I really missed your post.
Been managing to run a bit very early in the morning as it is so hot.Done a Parkrun on Saturday in 28degrees and managed a time of 23:27 which I was pleased with.
Apologies for not commenting on all the great training.
pleased to hear the good news about your son's treatment progress - it must be a great relief to know that it has gone so well so early in the treatment plan
you will find the UK a bit different temperature wise from Oz - I have seen some of he temperatures that have been recorded there!!
well done on getting a parkrun in and with a very respectable time as well - it couldn't have been easy for you! I remember how you finished the LFOTM last summer when it was pretty hot here
Graham
xposted yesterday!
we seem to have missed the snow and ice that you had you had. That's the thing about the UK - weather can change such a lot in a comparatively short distance
Saw the wolf moon early this morning, just finishing off some work and then time for a slow run
TS, the ice round here was mainly the result of a short but heavy snow shower, which was probably quite local. Thanks for the summary of ceal's records. I had 3000m in mind but may have been thinking of the race in Budapest where she got a gold medal?
I've got a reoccurence of a slight back strain so am reluctantly taking a couple of days off.
Ray - good to hear from you. So sorry to hear about your son. My lad was terribly ill in his early 20s and it was heart-breaking. But he came through it. You were hitting some pretty awesome marathon times s last time we 'spoke' - and just off to Australia. I believe?
NZC and Alehouse - well done on the parkruns. Times (and AGs) can be misleading given different courses and conditions. I'm SO spoilt given my 'home' course.
Graham and TS - ice!! Sounds grim. Here on the Costa Geriatrica it was a little bit frosty but with lovely sunshine. I managed a 4k hill repeat run and knocked another 30 seconds off last week's effort. Really feel that I'm making some progress via this training and recommend similar to Dave: it's so damned painful it just must be doing me good!
I don't like the sound of a back strain!! take it easy
Ceal set her WR over 1500 and 5K in the UK but also won both events in the European (not World - my mistake) Championships as you rightly say in Budapest where it was ferociously hot so it wasn't a matter of times but beating the opposition.
John
following a training plan - well I never
"Whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"................maybe
My legs were shredded by yesterday's effort - I know, pathetic isn't it?. My muscles just can't recover from even modest efforts due to the lack of thyroid stimulation
I therefore ran solely by HR to keep with in aerobic recovery levels which I nearly did until the hill barred my progress! 3.2 miles in 32:47 with avHR of 125 (62%WHR) and a max of 144 (76% WHR) just took me over the threshold
Apparently this Monday is regarded as the bluest day of the year as most folk have given up on New Year resolutions and are feeling depressed about it. Well after my run I too was feeling depressed and then I read this
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/20/jasmin-paris-feat-endurance-remembered-long-run
not sure whether to feel inspired or truly depressed but I thought it could be just the race for John