P&D Spring Marathon 2019

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  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Nice work on the sick cleaning SQ - is there some rule that it's a dad job? Great race too. Big week, no sleep, casual approach, strong finish, big PB. Top stuff.

    Good one Spoon. Best thing is that the achilles is all good. 

    Good LRs from FBT, Steve, george and AWC.

    Jools - I think when you put so many hard runs and races close together you can't really read too much into feeling flat from time to time. I always assumed you sacrificed running the best times you could because you love racing and training hard, hence the regular 2-3 races per weekend. I think it's a great attitude but I always wonder if you could set some faster times if you raced less and really focused on peaking for a specific race. Obviously I don't follow your training that closely and I might get a skewed impression because it seems you're racing all the time. I guess it could also be a low level viral thing.
  • Well done on the 10k Millsy. Not great conditions for racing last weekend.

    I use heart rate for training and racing FBT. I <3 it :) Never looked back since I started using it. I use a chest strap though. A lot of training advice says to train based on your current fitness, not target fitness. Well one way of always doing that is to work from the effort you're expending on a run. The feedback mechanisms from using a monitor are very good too. You can see the very real effects of training -  how pace improves with effort over time - and the monitor can also advise on the stress your body is facing, and that can help you make sensible decisions about how to approach a week's training.

    Unlucky with the fog Chicksta, but still ... a minute off, and good placing. Sounds positive to me.

    Excellent 5 mile race there SQ ! Great positive swing from the shoes and the training so far. Marathon targets may require radical revision ! Good you could cope with the race too RSR and still a very good time in the circumstances.

    Good effort on the parkrun/cross country and everything else Jooligan. Joe too on the parkrun. Nice pic for the thread too :)

    Well done on the 20 miler George.

    Ramjet - Sorry the half was only so-so, could be some fatigue or just soreness that needed to be worked out - or a bug brewing. Take the recovery and see how things turn out ?

    Good miles HA. I managed 55 in a recovery-ish week post half. Annoyingly still, cool conditions this weekend. Perfect for racing ! I was a bit tired to go all out at parkrun on Saturday (17.19) and similarly on Sunday a little tired for my first real long run since end of August .. 17 miles . That did what long runs always do to me - left me feeling drained and ever so hungry. Steve, I share your pain !
  • Joe and Jools - Now it’s been mentioned, I can’t help but see the picture as a before and after the plane crash in Cast Away.

    Chicksta - It sounds like you toughed out the conditions and still ended up with a good time. In my limited running experience, I think such efforts are character building. How can we keep going in the last few miles of the marathon if we haven’t been to some dark places in training?

    SQ - That’s some quick running and a huge chunk off the PB, not even taking into account the lack of taper. Congrats.

    Jools - I suppose with the amount of races you get through, you can’t smash them all. A bit of illness can’t have helped, another one to tick off as character building.

    Ramjet - After 20 miles on Friday you definitely can’t have been tapered. Still good to finish the run feeling strong and not be grinding to a halt.

    RSR - Good racing and pacing, even better news on the injury (or lack of).

    A bit of a confusing weekend of running for me. Parkrun in 19:34, which I was disappointed with as I thought I’d be much closer to 19 flat with my current fitness. But then my long run on Sunday on legs that were feeling the effort from the previous day went really well. I completed 20 miles averaging 7:35, which made 90 miles in total for the week. Particularly pleasing was the heart rate was towards the lower end of the long run range and identical to a run at the same point of my previous marathon training where I averaged 8:33.

    Plan for this week is to swap the Friday LT session with a Saturday parkrun at a different venue. 900 people on a 3 lap course with narrow paths made overtaking really difficult in the last 1.5 laps, plus I have some other excuses I won’t bore you with 🙂. So I’m going to front load my running this week to be a little bit fresher and then hopefully I can hit the time I was hoping for.


  • HPR I'd be happy with 19:3x in a 90M week. The very positive 20 miler sounds a lot more relevant to the marathon goal. Where do you parkrun out of interest?
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Lunch run today with 4 miles at LT pace - was 6:40/mi for the LT section which I'm pretty happy with given I haven't done one in a few months. Will do the same session next week and see if I can improve that time.

    HPR: as Jools says a 90mi week isn't going to do you any favours at parkrun. Sounds like a good time to me in the circumstances and backed up with a great 20 miler

    FBT: I use heart rate training all the time. Like Muddy says it keeps you training at your current fitness rather than trying to train at your target paces. That comes with time as your speed increases at a given heart rate.
  • Im quite surprised so many people use heart rate to train by. not many people seem to mention it. Most seem to mention pace rather than HR - but I guess its individual to each person so would not mean much. Im really interested in how my heart rate will change over time for the same effort runs. good point about current fitness rather than planned fitness.
  • George/Jools - that sounds like either Tooting or Fulham to me? Don't beat yourself up about it, neither a super fast course due to all the dodging etc. Still a mega training week! Where you going this weekend? I might follow you around ;) 

    Amen to the HR training, I'm a big believer. HR doesn't lie. Use that to set the pace of most of my runs depending on what effort I want.

    Great report SQ. Keep training hard and you'll be the fastest runner on your road one day.

    Glad people are enjoying the snap of Jools and I. If I'm as good looking as that when I'm a bit older I'll be a happy man ;)

    Bike session this morning - a rare Monday morning session as I didn't do too much yesterday. Easy commute run tonight.
  • Joe was spot on, it’s Tooting Common parkrun. My display name is a bit out of date as I moved the start of last year. Fulham palace is actually where my PB was run, although I haven’t been for 3 years so there is a good chance it’s quite a bit busier now.

    I’m going to do Burgess park, I’ve done it a couple of times before and I think as long as you start near the front the only traffic you come up against is moving in the opposite direction, so easier to deal with. Joe, happy for you to follow me around if you’re happy to pace me 😉
  • Great 5m PB/sick clearing combo SQ, 1min is huge imho, enjoyed the report too and not a Santa suit in sight !
    Equally RSR, well done on the sub 30, more importantly the ankle behaving.

    Jools - can’t help with HR I’m afraid, still a decent sub 40 though.  Was it last weekend with only one race that you smashed it out of the park ?  Good to see a thread pic Jools/Joe.

    Decent LR HPR and respectable splits Chicksta.  Not a bad HM Ram especially if hilly.

    Muddy - I think SQ described 17m as a MLR a few pages back, good effort nonetheless😉

    Well done on the 20m George , the volume HA and the hilly 16.5 MLR FBT !

    Steve, sounds like the volume is building up nicely, I’m sure effort will come down quickly.

    Good LT AWC, first one is a good hurdle to get over.

    Inspired by TR’s progressive LR about 10 pages back (plus it was cold and very late) I thought I’d do similar last night.  After a couple of miles I lost interest in holding back on downhills and speeding up on ascents so resolved to run 10 out and 10 back quicker which got me home about 12:15am, a bit too early for the wolf moon but the full was still quite impressive.  A couple of easier days at the back of last week seemed to do the trick.  


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Spoons - nice one, sub 6mm and no injury issues. Only lost the odd day too.

    SQ - quick 5m there, big pb too. Keep following P and D and you'll be strong as well as fast, which is a good place to be. Agreed re the long runs, they provide a bit of mental and physical stimulation towards the end.  I agree with your plan of making the race your session for the week, protect what you have.

    Muddy - did i read that you did a long walk before the long run? No wonder you are hungry, get the calories in !

    Macca - glad to be of service, thats a late run, well done for getting it done. Does that count as a Sunday or monday run?

    16m run home tonight av 8.06.
  • Nice parkrun course geekery Joe & thanks for the compliment but you've got a lifetime of running before you reach my advanced years.
    Good to get that first LT session done AWC.
    That's a solid w/e of training Muddy.
    Figured you must be planning a late one Macca Solid late 20M to sneak up the leaderboard ;) & yes it was last w/e that I smashed parkrun but then I also got my HR up to 99% max after a bigger week.
    I'm going with minor viral infection &/or stress - car overheated en route to parkrun & I wasn't sure we'd even make it let alone get back OK! The weird thing is the heater isn't working - it's blowing but almost cold even when the temp gauge was redlining & I had the STOP warning. Made it to & from work today OK but still no heater?!
    Legs feel absolutely fine today but still kept it as a XT day with an hour in the gym: lots of core, glute & upper body stuff then 2.5K in the pool this evening.

  • Hi everyone, I see lots of familiar names.
    The second half of last year was a near write-off for me with family issues, and then as things were settling down, I was down with that cough that got so many...  with only four runs in November and one run in December.  Not ideal preparation for a 38m ultra on 26th Jan.  A very telling stat is that I averaged 9 miles per week after completing my June ultra through to the end of 2018  - that's a long long time on low mileage.

    Anyway, the second batch of antibiotics finally kicked in enough for me to go for a short run on new year's day, and I've not really looked back.  Not really the prescribed way of rebuilding mileage, but I just managed to reach 100m for the month at lunchtime.  I think I'll need a two day taper ahead of Saturday's Wychavon Way Ultra!

    I think I've done just enough to get through it gently and I'm hoping this helps with the base-building I've been doing, rather than destroying my legs. Fingers crossed.  The main focus for the year is Newport marathon - the first Sunday of May.  Just after my birthday when I move into a new age category for GFA.  It will be a hell of a stretch for me but if I can keep getting the miles in, then I've got to give it a try.

    Now I'm beginning to feel like a runner again, hopefully I'll get back into this forum too.

    Sorry I've not read back... but that would be a bit much!


  • Spoons I had a look at the Daniels Calculator. Oh dear – I can feel some goal creep coming on. Not happy with the mile prediction though: 5:00!

    HA I’m happy enough clearing up sick. Rugby playing at university was probably pretty good training.

    Impressive less than full gas parkrun, muddy.

    Good luck for the parkrun, HPR. They are such a great option to have. As jools says, impressive 90M week.

    Good effort on the LT, AWC. That, combined with you ultra consistency, bodes extremely well.

    FBT I train by effort, but keep an eye on HR and pace. So it is intriguing to see resultant pace, HR doesn’t vary much for the given effort each day.

    Macca finishing at 00:15 – so which day does that run count as. Or is it two runs?!

    Hi NE. Sorry to have about a tough end to the year. Onward and upwards.

     

    Icy in places this morning and felt a bit fatigued. 6 x short hills and 7 x strides in lieu of the LT workout. Kept these off road for extra grip. 10M at 8m/m. Off to Cambridge later. Anyone recommend a scenic short run for tomorrow morning? Somewhere that will still be good in the dark!

  • TR - Nice 16 miler.
    HPR - Nice long run and parkrun!
    AWC - Nice LT run! The first one back is always tough!
    Macca - Superb late night running!
    NE - Good to see you back, sorry to hear of your issues, but sounds like you are building back nicely.
    8 miles easy today, felt comfortable and HR nice and low. Nike's feel good, might have to get another pair!
  • Macca. Does that count as a run for 2 days? Have you turned into a vampire.....
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - icy indeed today. Cant help re cambridge. You could ask charlie W on sub 3.

    SteveMac - good that the shoes were a success.

    Planned on doing 10m with the 3min reps but it rained overnight and the temperature dropped after the rain, so i had to sack it off after 5 or 6 reps as the lanes were getting too icy. So 10m mixed pace in the end, some very slow trying to stay upright.
  • NE - welcome back.

    Jools - water leak ? (The car , not you.)

    TR - lots of solid MLRs and LRs being banked there.

    Well done on the early starts Steve and SQ, sorry can’t help with Cambridge SQ, I’ve being a few times but not with running eyes on.

    Re finishing after midnight, Strava counts it in the week the run starts which suits me as one of my targets is to maintain 70+mpw, another target is to not get too anal about it, I’m doing better at the first than second atm.
  • HPR - As a club we're pretty much in agreement that Burgess is one of the fastest in London - definitely down south anyway. It's where we all go when we want a 'time trial' effort in marathon season. I probably won't go there on Saturday as I'm thinking of doing a new one, but you never know, I may pop up.

    SQ - I'm yet to run that elusive 4:59, but I've never attacked a mile when I've been in good shape. It would be nice to have. 

    Macca - saw the mad late run. Very impressive as always! Don't know how you do it.

    NE - great to see you back posting. Sorry it hasn't been smooth sailing as of late; good luck in the ultra. 

    Swim this morning. Club session tonight. 4 x 1 mile off 90s. Will probably try and run them around 10km pace. 
  • Macca - I would count it as 2 runs!!! ;-)

    Jools, Im going with either serious coolant loss, thermostat stuck or water pump knackered.

    SQ / JB I would have thought you 2 would nail a sub 5 min mile. Ive done 5:30 during a 10k a couple of times (or so my watch said). And Im a tortoise!


  • I was thinking stuck thermostat. Last winter it stuck open & the car never got up to operating temperature but that's definitely not the case this time so maybe not opening. Lost plenty of coolant Saturday but filled it up & hasn't lost any since.
    Joe I'm sure you could break 5 if you did less endurance work for a month or 2. My mate that was at parkrun Saturday only trains for the shorter distahas a 5K PB of 16:18 & his mile PB is 4:47. Incidentally he won his only ever marathon: Cheltenham Circular Challenge in 2014 :D
    Welcome back NE. Sounds like 2019 has got off to far better start than the back end of 2018. Long may it continue. Saw you running over Wye Bridge, Monmouth as I was driving to Aberbeeg parkrun 10 days ago so was expecting you to pop up soon.
    8M early doors but abandoned any attempt at strides to focus on staying upright then 5M at lunch with 8x300m off 100m jog. Still no sign of DOMS from Sunday though don't think the 300s were much above 5K pace! Mind you I probably only managed an hour's sleep last night :s

  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭
    TR - I just did an easy 10 on Friday so I was fairly tapered.

    Joe - quite possibly. He probably overtook me a couple of miles from the end when I was struggling up the last hill!

    Nice mileage HA.

    Impressive brick run there Steve!

    Nice race Spoons.

    Hope you foot improves FBT.

    Great long run George.

    Thanks Muddy and nice parkrun.

    Great mileage and long run HPR.

    Well done on the midnight run Macca. I find that late night long runs just go on forever but you must be used to running at night with the ultras.

    Hello again NE and good luck with the ultra.

    Cross training day yesterday and then an easy 9 in the snow today. Legs feeling relatively OK for two days after a HM so maybe I left something in the tank on Sunday.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Good you pulled up ok Ramjet. It could be that you were a bit fatigued and unable to push to the limit in your race so your legs didn't get as beat up as they might have. 

    NE - Good to have you back. Hope everything settles down and you can build your fitness. Not messing about with the ultra on the weekend. Good stuff.

    Macca - Great midnight LR! I have difficulty staying up after 10pm.

    Some good runs avoiding the ice. 

    Planned a track session this morning but decided to put on the XC shoes and stick to the grass to avoid any ice. Lots of snow at home but nothing down near work so it probably would've been ok. Anyway, did a Mona Fartlek around the park and managed 5.7 km, about 100m less than last time but the loop was certainly slower this time so can't really compare. 
  • Might have to give the sub 5 a crack then when I get into better shape again. 

    Glad to hear you're recovering quickly after the weekend Ramjet. Like HA says, going in not fully tapered always leaves it hard to squeeze out every last drop.

    HA - Like you said, snow wasn't as bad as everyone feared. Hardly anything in central London, just wet. Good going with the Mona. As long as the effort is there, that's all that matters.

    Bailed on the session last night. Started cycling from work and immediately frozen with hands/feet in pain. Completely threw me out of the game mentally and I bailed on it - not too impressed with myself but I was just going to hate every second of it.

    Made myself do the session this morning instead - 4x1 mile off 90s recovery. Went to Wandsworth Park, which was nearly pitch black so couldn't really see my feet which made things more difficult. Resolved to run to effort rather than pace.

    6:05, 6:01, 6:03, 6:02 - fairly consistent with effort feeling like 10km pace at the very least. Legs didn't want to know either, so it was actually a real slog. I'm just telling myself, at least I'm actually doing sessions, I've got to stop thinking about doing it and just get on with it.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Joe - My faith in you was restored when I saw that session on Strava this morning. Great work.
  • Welcome back NE, glad you're getting back into it. Joe back into it the next day, good work on those mile reps and the Mona on the grass HA. With regards to breaking 5, i'm sure you can do that on the right day, it's probably that apparent lack of real top end speed that allows you to be so good over the endurance stuff.
    SQ, superb 5 mile PB back a page or so, I really am tempted by those magic shoes, just in case they really help, I echo the others though, you can't give them credit.
    Lots of training elsewhere too and a few other quality races.

    As for me, I am busy continuing with P&L for the HM, I have slowly crept up from the 31-47 plan towards the 46-63 plan. I am in week 8/12 and it's a recovery week so I am following the higher mileage plan from here on in. I'll drop some mileage if it's too  much. Raced XC on Sunday finishing 8th which was probably as good as I could expect. Also I unknowingly booked a cycling trip with the club on London Marathon weekend so I am not running it now. I think my GFA also runs out after this one so I will have to run another marathon if I want to do London next year.
  • It sounds like you were tired, untapered, and possibly with an underlying bug Jools. If it were me I’d take that as a sign to ease up a bit, but doing the opposite seems to be working ok for you so far this week, so who knows!? Hope the car is ok.

    Nice long run George. I used to love doing my long runs down from Hampstead via Regent’s Park and then looping Hyde, St James’s, and Green Park before heading back up. It’s amazing how green a run in London can be.

    Sorry to hear your daughter was still sick SQ, wondered if that might be why you canceled our recovery run. Don’t talk to me about 5 minute miles - chasing that is what got me injured in the first place!

    Speedy parkrun Muddy, especially if it wasn’t all-out.

    I agree with the others Hydeparkrunner, can’t read too much in to a parkrun result at the end of a big week, and ultimately the strong long run is probably more important for the end goal.

    Solid LT run AWC.

    20 miles that late is impressive Macca. Do you struggle to sleep after running so late?

    Nice to hear from you NE. Good luck at the Wychavon Way.

    Glad you stayed upright TR.

    Always hard to know about a race effort when recovery feels good in the following days Ramjet. But at least it means you can crack on with training!

    Sounds like a decent session on the grass HA.

    Well done getting out there after bailing yesterday Joe. Running fast in the dark always feels harder, I guess because you’re having to concentrate more. 

    Congrats on the XC Reg, and good to hear you’re upping the mileage successfully.

    A damp day yesterday, plus a light dusting of snow overnight, meant the river paths were looking a bit treacherous this morning. I’m not taking any risks and getting another injury so I reluctantly headed back to the gym for a treadmill session. 

    The plan was 20 x 1 min @ 10K, 1 min easy, a relatively light session that kicks off the NAZ marathon plan. Perfect for me given the 5 mile race a few days ago - I don’t want to overdo things early on. Unfortunately the workout I added to Zwift didn’t quite run as planned, and about halfway through I realised the efforts were more like 45 seconds (I thought they were going by quickly!?) It was doing 200m on, 200m off, so I added an extra 5 reps to ensure the amount of time at effort remained similar to the original plan.

    I averaged around 6 min/mi for the efforts, so probably about right for my current fitness based on Sunday’s race. 13 miles overall, so a decent workout. I was surprised how quickly it went actually, doing short reps on the treadmill helps break the monotony, as did using Zwift and enjoying the virtual views of Central Park. 

  • MadbeeMadbee ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Oh heck, I'm never going to keep up with this thread.  Stuff that stood out:

    Joe, good work getting the session done, I find them very depressing these days, seeing numbers that don't tally with what I used to do when I was fit!  So I understand the effort v pace issue...  Still impressive, mind.

    Macca you loon!  I ran at 11pm once, on a club coast to coast relay and it was the weirdest experience...  

    SQ, I spent much of Monday evening clearing up sick too. I dislike it about as much as the 11 with 7 @LT session that crops up in about 10 weeks time.

    I nailed day 1 of the plan, and have already wimped out of the LT that I was meant to do yesterday.  Depending what time I get home, I'm either doing it tonight, or tomorrow, with the 10m GA on the other day.  If I come and make any excuses please kick my arse.
  • 11 miles LT run for me with 5 miles at LT pace... Very hard session and felt very hard.

    Should the LT miles feel very hard (like I want to stop hard). pace was still off what Im happy with but better than last time.

    Can you run LT miles too hard? or should you really run them as hard as you can?

  • NE - Others might disagree, but I don't think you can run it too hard. It's just a hard effort over the prescribed distance - unlikely you'd be able to get anywhere above 10km pace in training anyway for a prolonged period. As long as the pace is consistent and doesn't drop away in the 2nd half.

    Nice work Reg, awesome to see you going well. Poor scheduling re; London though.

    Spoons - Sounds like a decent session, running zwift any good?

    Madbee - we'll be holding you accountable! Look forward to hearing how it went.. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Ramjet - still not much of a taper though. But thats fine with bigger fixtures on the horizon.

    Reg - plenty of options for low key GFA marathons by June/july.

    Spoons - well done on the tready session

    FBT - probably difficult to run 5m too fast in training, id never get anywhere near as fast as hmp over that distance. But its about the effort really i guess.

    Very icy here early today due to rain which froze, luckily it was a run home day, so a very cold 15m done this evening.
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