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P&D Spring Marathon 2019
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Well done on getting that one in FBT. As Joe says if you can hold a consistent pace over the LT session then it's probably about right. I'd certainly expect to be feeling like stopping by about 3M in. Obviously you should really use HR zones to gauge the effort & let the pace take care of itself. When I first followed P&D I did the LT sessions on the TM (with 2% incline) to force the pace.
Got the MLR in despite feeling rough all day & I feel better for it. 16.3M on the TM(2%) certainly makes for a sweaty session. Figured I'd stay indoors as I didn't want to be running along an icy towpath in the dark & also if it felt bad I could stop at any point. All was good however & I did 5M at 8, 5M at 7:50, 5M at 7:40 then finished off with a mile at 6:45 & 400m at 6:25.
Awesome MLR Jooligan. Just try to get some recovery tomorrow!
14 mile MLR for me in rather nice if cold conditions. I didn't push the pace too much as my legs were tired from Sunday but it went OK.
Good MLRs from Macca, Jools, TR and Ramjet
Macca - No mention of the 10k PB in that LT?
Jools - that's almost a proper LR.
Spoon - sounds like a good session, might have to try that one.
Madbee - Well done on the nailing the rest day.
Reg - Can't believe you're missing the London marathon. Sheez. Things are going well for you and I think a top performance was on the cards. If you run under 1:15 at Wokingham you won't have to worry about doing another marathon to get into London next year.
Got out last night for a second session, 6x 3min on / 1min off. Pace was about 5:40/mile for the on, 6:10-6:20ish for the off, depending on the hills. Didn't feel great, with food sloshing around in my stomach and a few icy sections, but good to get another big day done.
HA, tough session, I know you're generally speedy, but even the 'off' sections sound like working reasonably hard.
Macca, I adore Father Ted. I am pretty sure getting a 10K PB mid LT run is going a bit too fast
Ramjet, those MLRs are the ones that make the difference after mile 20 on marathon day I reckon. Well done!
Right. Off to find some flat road.
Interesting and thanks for the advice people, thought I read somewhere in P&D book about too fast - might have to dust the book off......
HA - what does LT feel like? (like you cant do another 400m at that pace let alone another 4miles)
Jools MLR is a long run in my book! 10 -14 miles are MLR, but I guess im just a slacker!
Madders - are you doing VLM this year?
Good MLR from others and HA ticking along nicely.
Go get it done Madbee!
Had a bike session this morning then ran straight to work. Always surprised how much easier it seems running after a ride. Ran in at nearly 7mm which I'd never do if I was just setting off on a normal run.
Going to run home as well, before an easier day tomorrow and then another bash at parkrun on Sat. The weight is starting to come off so something must be happening.
HA - as you ask...yes a pavement 10k pb in this weeks 6.21m @LT subject to Garmin accuracy etc. 38.12 against official 38:29. To be fair I’ve only ever raced 6 10ks (and a few inter club 10ks) but it’s another distance on the list of “ought to do in the near future”.
Afternoon all
Pleased everyone has so far stayed upright in these slippery conditions. I see a few treadmill sessions occurring. I can’t quite bring myself to do a continuous paced run on one yet, but if needs must I am lucky enough to have the option.
FBT I really don’t think I’d nail a sub 5 minute mile. Maybe I’d get close after some concerted training, but top end speed has always been my downfall. Sprinting was not an attribute I possessed whilst playing rugby.
Big day from HA.
Good to see Reg continuing P&L nicely. As HA says, run your sub 75 there and Champs start is sorted. Easy…
Hell of an LT from Macca.
Enjoyable, if slightly hungover, morning trot exploring Cambridge yesterday. Then a tired 13M MLR after school, averaging just under 7:30 pace, albeit with a bit of slipping on ice and mud. Backing this up with a planned 15M MLR after school today. Have plotted a very random route around Worcester, trying to take in some lesser-known areas.
The long (and genuinely treacherous) drive to Cambridge seems to have resulted in me hurting something in my neck/shoulder – although the pain only came on when doing some shoulder presses in the gym yesterday. Slightly difficult to turn my head left. Hopefully it’ll clear soon and no dogs approach me from that direction.
Well done Madbee thought you were probably faster than you gave yourself credit for, decent session.
I've tried the single malt approach Macca but it's not had quite the same effect on me
Just 4M at lunch for me mostly really easy though I did pace an 800m in the middle but only MP for me.
HA - i like the 3min reps too, mine got ruined by ice Tuesday, but ill get back to them soon.
JB - yes Brighton. Im around 80mpw at mo, coping ok so wont push it up, possibly a couple more miles on the odd long run. Im not doing doubles so am doing well mileage wise off singles.
SQ - hope you get the 15 in, back to back mlrs is nice work.
Very icy here again so just the minimal 6m commute run back this morning.
Good mileage, TR.
Ooh Jooligan, you’ve inspired me to have a single malt tonight.
15M MLR done at 7:24 average pace. Seems to have loosened the neck a bit. Enjoyed exploring a few new areas.
Just the 5 mile recovery for me - and a swim. The run was slow but not as slow as the watch claimed. Apple Watch / iPhone combo had a nightmare today. Feeling tempted to go back to Garmin. Apple Watch on probation now!
6M recovery on grass this morning at 8:45 pace. I do enjoy a plod.
TR - 80 mpw with only singles is great going
Nice MLRs SQ. Hope that neck issue sorts itself out.
Joe - Sounds like you're coming along nicely. Funny you mention weight coming off. I've been struggling to drop any weight recently. Usually I drop it easily when the mileage goes up but not this time it seems.
Long run planned for this morning but really wasn't feeling it. The Wednesday double probably still in my legs. I cut it short to a pretty tame 20km. Cut back week next week so hopefully that will help to freshen things up. Might still try to sneak 100km for the week but will cut back intensity and skip the Wednesday double.
Well done on the LT runs FBT and Madbee.
Nice MLRs TR, Jools, Ramjet and Macca.
Zwift adds a bit of interest Joe, and as a geek I like having a new toy to play with. But it’s nowhere near as good as on the bike, as you don’t get the interaction between Zwift and the treadmill like you do with a smart trainer. Not sure they’ll ever make it able to control the treadmill owing to safety concerns.
Pretty speedy on a full stomach and with icy conditions HA. Probably wise to cut the long run short, long way to go yet.
I always like splitting a double day between two cities SQ, don’t know why. Your route around Worcester was indeed pretty random!
Glad the neck is easing up.
Hopefully just a bad day Ramjet, like SQ I’ve found the latest Apple Watch to be pretty decent both for GPS and HR, certainly far better than previous generations. The first generation was shockingly bad.
For LT runs, I agree with others that as long as you’re working hard and maintaining pace it’s probably about right. And it’s not like there’s a magical pace which is perfect, and if you’re slower than that you get no training effect. I try not to worry too much about the pace, as I know from experience that I rarely even get to HM pace, but the training still works. Better to be slow in training and quicker in races than the other way around I guess!?
I was in two minds about whether to risk the ice yesterday, but several people on Strava including SQ reported the canal to be a bit icy the afternoon before, so I decided not to risk it. An easy effort 10 miles at 7:33/mi went a lot slower than the longer session yesterday as it was just a constant pace. Hamstrings felt a bit achey afterwards, which I seem to remember happening after treadmill running last year. Probably good to give the legs some slightly different stimulus, and certainly good mental training - I genuinely think all those miles on the treadmill last year helped with the mental battle in the final miles at Manchester.
Back outside this morning though for a 15 mile MLR. Legs felt tired when I got up, but felt ok once I got going. Averaged 7:08/mi so not bad. Really pleased that I’ve been able to launch back in to a big mileage week without any recurrence of the Achilles issue. I’ve signed up for the Staverton 10 on Sunday, which I will run as an MP session with a decent warm-up beforehand. Hopefully I can find some tall people to run behind, as the forecast is looking rather breezy!
Oh, and did you see the Dubai marathon results? Getaneh Molla ran the fastest ever debut, 2:03:34, and two women ran 2:17, the third and fourth fastest women ever! Bonkers.
Amusingly, according to Letsrun the male runner-up, Herpassa Negasa, ran in Nike Vaporflys (setting a 5 minute PB) despite being an Adidas athlete. They appear to have been painted/dyed to disguise them. I bet Adidas are happy about that...
SQ-I love a good plod too. At 9 m/m you can really take in the world around you
Ramjet-I'm a garmin man, never been tempted by the apple watch
Interesting week so far. Had a good mile repeat session in the freezing rain on Tuesday, averaging 6 m/m. Was working really hard by the end but that's the point I guess. Followed up with a 15 mile run on Wednesday evening and a day off tomorrow (simply no time for a run)
6 mile easy today followed by a hard parkrun effort tomorrow. Going to head out at PB pace and hopefully hold on. Whether my fatigued legs hold out we shall see but I've never been in better aerobic shape
Spoons - ridiculous scenes in Dubai. How do they run that fast? Looks like you're building things up nicely.
HA - sounds sensible mate. Always better to back off when you're starting to feel it, rather that than bat on and get injured or lose motivation. I'm going to do something similar next week.
Trying to run every day. Will probably have a pop at parkrun tomorrow, unless my legs feel like lead from the off. Getting under 18 again would be a big confidence boost.
Oof - well done on the 10M single pace treadmill run spoons. Although as you say, your mental strength, perhaps in part derived from these sessions last year, had a massive positive impact in Manchester. Hope the Staverton 10 goes well. Good to get windy conditions for a non-race race, I reckon. Excellent practice for the real thing without it being too annoying. I may still join you (P&D has 18w10 at MP) but still deciding how many cards I have to play. LF5 last week, Chichester 10k next and XC and Wokingham on the horizon.
Rapid evening running in Dubai. Money talks! Although I gather not as much as in previous years.
Good luck at the parkruns George and Joe.
Neck 90% better. Whilst some say running is a linear sport and the lack of directional change can lead to injury, it has helped in this case!
Would be interested to tap into peoples knowledge here and get your thoughts on what my pace and heart rate should be. I think I'm not running fast enough in my LT and not slow enough in my aerobic and recovery runs.
I tried a aerobic / recovery run today and my watch said I was in LT zone with HR at 150ish at 8:15min miles
so if my half times are 1:29 and marathon times are 3:15 and RHR is 50ish and max HR is about 185 what should my pace and HR be ? currently they are
LT - 6:55 HR 175
Aerobic - 7:45 HR 160
Recovery - 8:15 HR 150
I think my LT should be quicker and recovery slower.....
HA - good call on being kind to yourself.
Spoons - well done on the 15. Im trying to get 2 mlrs in a week and push the total up towards 30m, mlr is a focus for me this time. Hope the mp 10 goes well.
FBT- no idea re pace and HR.
Easy 7m here, had an easy week with 3min reps bailed due to ice and ydays progressive 10 also swapped to 6m easy due to ice. Not a bad thing though.
11 mile MLR for me in practically tropical weather! Pace back to normal, GPS worked OK so all good!
Parkrun will be an all out effort for me tomorrow, I feel slightly fresher than last week so hopefully that and the course will help.
FBT - I’ve copied my HR and pace ranges below for each run type, these are what are recommended in P&D. FYI based on a max HR of 197 and target marathon time of 3 hours.
Recover < 76% max heart < 150 bpm
General aerobic 10-25% slower than MP - 70-81% max HR - 7:33 to 8:35 - 138 to 160 bpm
Long run pace 10-20% slower than MP -74-84% max heart - 7:33 to 8:14 - 146 to 165 bpm
MP - 79-88% max heart rate - 156 to 173 bpm
Tempo - 82-91% max heart - 162 to 179 bpm