P&D Spring Marathon 2019

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  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I have a RHR <50 & MaxHR of 175. I use 136 bpm as my ceiling for GA/recovery FBT so you are flogging yourself unnecessarily if those HR readings are correct. When I was using HR in a disciplined way most of my running was between 8 & 9 minute miling then I'd smash myself at the weekend with parkrun + XC, fell racing or whatever. After 14 years of running this highly polarised training had dramatic results in terms of PBs. Previously I'd spend a lot of time running around 150bpm, averaging 7:30 & had plateaued. Check this research into the progress made by 48 athletes using different balances of training.
    5 & 7 mile double all around 136 bpm today.
    Good luck parkrunners. I'll be having a crack myself as usual.
  • Sulking in the corner - lurgified. Haven't run since Monday :(

    Hope all racers and parkrunners go well.

    Going to pop back in when I'm less miserable.
  • Bad luck Chicksta. Get well soon.
    Unexpected 1st place at parkrun B) Went out hard & was in the lead straight away. By 1K in I couldn't hear any pursuit so relaxed a bit. Disappointed not to be able to pick the pace back up in the final K but hey. 2M wu & 2M cd makes my daily 7. The rest of the day will be spent relaxing :)
  • HPR - think I did get confused! Hope it went well this morning.

    FBT - that sounds far too much like training from you.. You're worrying me. We'll all be looking over our shoulders if you start putting together some structure. 

    Chick - really sorry to hear that mate. Hope it goes away soon.

    Jools - top running, can't turn down a first place finish. Awesome. 

    So if anyone needed proof that actually just doing a bit of training makes you run a bit faster, then I'm happy to offer it up. Been back with some structure for 3/4 weeks now, and hoping things starting to trend upwards.

    Decided to go to Fulham Palace parkrun this morning as although it always gets super congested on the 3rd lap with narrow paths and big numbers, it's just easiest for us logistically. 3 mile warm up including some proper limbering up and strides, which I don't normally do.

    Went out hard from the off and it's me and one other guy in 3rd and 4th the whole time. Feeling a bit of a breeze coming one way, not too bad but noticeable. Worked really hard to stay with the other guy, never caught him, but rinsed myself for a 17:54 - actually really pleased with that.

    There was a time that I would take running under 18 minutes for granted. It's nice to be given a dose of reality and have to work for something. Hoping it's going to trend upwards from here. 

    On a high afterwards so logged so more miles to make it 15 for the morning. Another decent week in the books, mini cut-back next week then press on. Off to watch the cross country at Parliament Hill now. 
  • FBT I think HR will vary between everyone, but it’s important to get to know yours. Paces for me are approximately:

    Marathon pace 6:25
    Half race pace 6:01
    LT whatever I can reach close to the above
    Recovery 8:40

    Ah Ramjet it does sound like the HR is better on the series 4. I’d really recommend the WorkOutDoors app. You can select from a vast number of options, many different pace functions and can control what he side buttons do. For me to lap I press both exterior side buttons. Easy even with gloves. 

    Get well soon chicksta. 

    Great result Jooligan! I have managed first male before, but never first finisher...

    Great result Joe and a sold morning. Enjoy the cross country. 


    parkbuggyrun followed by a morning of fun in the park. Netball, chasing and the cafe. Good times. Might join spoons at the Staverton 10 tomorrow for a strictly marathon pace affair. It might even tip me into a first 80M week in a good while. 
  • george_george_ ✭✭✭
    Joe, I’m slightly worried you’re a mind reader as I was doing Burgess! I didn’t think I’d mentioned it earlier on the thread.

    Anyway, got round in 18:52 which is 4 seconds off PB. Bit of a weird race really because although there were 500 plus finishers I was running by myself for most of it. Quite windy in all but some guy went round in 15.30 so he managed. Felt really leggy throughout to be honest which is to be expected

    Will back it up with 18 steady miles tomorrow to bring up 60 for the week

    Well done all those speeding round today and get well soon Chicksta
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done on the mlr ramjet

    A good mornings work there joe

    Time on feet 23m for me today (just under 3.01).
  • hydepark runner - that is perfect... spot on what i was looking for. very similar to my paces and HR

    ramjet - I though they were high as well which is what caused me to post the question. I really struggle to run any pace with HR below 143 bpm
    Spoons - I also struggle to hit HM pace in LT sessions but seem ok in previous races
    Madders - I think you must be referring to most of my other previous marathon campaigns......I like to have a plan , but i admit i do tend to deviate a bit..... hence some poor previous campaigns. had a few good ones though!
  • Jools - i think i am doing too much work on non specific sessions and the HR could help me calm those down and may be get more weekly miles without injury. been checking out some of the research.....congrats on 1st place
    Joe - you will have to look a bloody long way over your shoulder....Im worrying myself dont worry.
    hope you cheer up chicksta
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Easy 4 miles yesterday and had a bit of a headache and lightheaded. Nothing serious and feeling mostly better today. Hopefully back to it tomorrow but still a lighter week next week.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I agree with your analysis FBT. Good luck polarising your training & reaping the benefits.
    Hope that doesn't develop further HA.
    I raced my annual 8M today at Lliswerry & recorded my 2nd slowest time in 8 years :/ Although I knew I wasn't in PB shape I was disappointed with the time as it's over 3 minutes down. Last year I set my PR PB the day before & was 3 minutes quicker btw. 
    I started conservatively but still lost a minute over the second half largely due to the ferocious wind: 25mph with 40+ mph gusts. I was still reeling people in right til the end & only got overtaken by one guy, a youngster, after the first half mile & that was with less than a mile to go. Beat my clubmate who was 40s quicker than me at Speedway last Sunday too so overall I guess the race wasn't actually a disaster. 21M for the day as I did a 3M wu & extended the cd to 10M. Annoyingly my HRM just packed up without warning yesterday so no HR data to analyse.
  • george_george_ ✭✭✭
    Jools, well done on getting the race done. Tough to get a PB in that wind

    Today’s 18 miler was probably the mentally toughest I’ve ever done. The pace wasn’t anything special, only 8 m/m but it was one of those to make you question what you’re doing. Rain and hail throughout and seemingly into a constant headwind. Still, what doesn’t kill you...
  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that Chicksta :-( Get well soon.

    Well done on the sub 18 JB. Nice to see things heading in the right direction.

    Thanks for the tip SQ. I'll check that app out.

    Nice parkrun George - especially when feeling leggy! Good LR today as well. The run is banked and that is the main thing.

    Cracking long run TR.

    Sorry about your race Jooligan. It is early season though and you can't peak all year. Impressive extended cool down. I always find long cool downs after races a bit of a slog.

    Steady 18 for me today. As it was my longest run since last year's VLM I didn't push the pace but happily ticked along at 7:40 - 7:50 until the last two miles when I turned into the wind. Those were somewhat slower!
  • Solid work being so close to a PB George. And well done on the 18M. All good training as you say. Another solid long run from Ramjet too. 
    Impressive to get 23M down so far out, TR. also useful to do 3 hours on feet as well, I believe. 
    Hope all ok, HA. Rest week well timed. 
    You talked yourself round mid race report, Jooligan. Punishing conditions and you sound like you had a virus only a few days ago. 
    I was perusing Po10 yesterday and was shocked to see I had the 9th fastest 5M in the country for 2019! There may have been only one race so far... and I’m not even tempted to look again tonight. Still, screenshotted that bit of running geekery gold. 
    Teamed up with spoons for the Staverton 10M today. I ran it as 8M easy then straight into the 10M at MP, as per the plan. Hard to truly judge MP as, despite my upselling the watch to Ramjet, my HR wasn’t keen to play ball early on. Still, averaged 6:19s on a rolling, very windy course, mostly on my own. Pleased with this at the end of an 80M week, and even more so without the magic shoes. 
    Talking of clothing, I looked a prized plonker. It was very cold, and as I wasn’t racing all out, I couldn’t decide what to wear. Plumped for bright white Adios (immediately ruined by mud), long socks, short shorts (my daughter asked why I hadn’t put any short on when she saw me leave the house), a vest, arm warmers and a ludicrous yellow hat. Zero points for style... Although to give them their dues, arm warmers are unfairly berated by runners. They do a bloody good job of keeping you warm, whilst giving options to remove and stuff in shorts/roll down. 
  • Chicksta - hope you feel better soon.

    Jools - well done on the parkrun 1st place. Unlucky today, but it sounds like you placed well compared to others so maybe it was just a very tough day?

    Joe - well done on the sub 18 and 15m for the day.

    George - I must have seen you at some point on Saturday at Burgess. 4 seconds off a PB sounds like a good result if you weren’t feeling fresh. Seems like a great place to be 10 weeks before Manchester.

    HA77 - Hopefully your illness is only minor and you’ll be back at it tomorrow.

    Parkrun on Saturday in 19:34, exactly the same as last week. So there was quite a bit of sulking the rest of the day as I was sure I’d be quicker. 22 miles today in a mix of hail, sleet and pretty windy conditions. Completed it averaging 7:42mm, dead in the middle of my HR range for long runs, which I was really happy with. All in all a very similar weekend to last in terms of running. Watford half for me next Sunday, hopefully the long distance form translates to a good time. My standalone half PB is very soft, so I’d be surprised if that doesn’t go.
  • Great parkrun/22M long run combo, HPR. Good luck for next weekend. Cheeky taper, favourable weather and you’ll be all over your PB. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done to all those toughing out long runs today, george, ramjet, hyde. it was grim in the wind.

    SQ - well done on today, thats a good days work. 6.19s is decent as an mp, 2.45ish ? Is yr plan for Chichester still the same ?

    6m easy today, legs were fine after ydays 23m so the progressive couple of long runs must have done me some good.
  • In the scheme of things the quality LR is more significant than a few seconds at PR HPR. What's the HM PB you've got to beat?
    Decent 18s from RamjetGeorge & an excellent one from SQTR & I are agreed that 6:19s as MP means shooting for 2:44:59 especially given that run was untapered & on a windy undulating course. Great photo of your special look here :D  https://www.flickr.com/photos/surgio/31956195117/in/photostream/
  • Still not found time to read back... except early in the thread noticing chicksta's heroics. OMG.. well done!  But I'll post anyway because if I wait until I've been polite enough to catch up with everyone, I'll never post anything.

    Did the Wychavon Way ultra yesterday on the back of a whole 3 weeks' training. Was supposed to be about 37.5 miles but some dodgy navigating had me climbing under an electric fence,  going through fields, over streams and through hedges to get myself back on track... so it was nearly 2 extra miles which cost me a sub-8hr finish.

    Very muddy in places - claggy - making each trainer weigh a kilogram and really hard to dislodge! One 15-20 foot patch of path where wading through 8" of slurry was completely unavoidable. Nice. Took it nice and very steady as far as the top of Bredon Hill at about the 27m mark. From there it was all down hill and flat (if rather muddy) and I wondered if 8hrs might be on and I felt good enough to go for it. But several occasions where the gpx file didn't work (for me and others) cost me at least 5, maybe10 minutes, standing, discussing, wondering and finding alternative routes. Shame really but I still found motivation to keep going because having run most of the race in near isolation, I was suddenly reeling people in. I reckon that in the last 20 miles no one overtook me and I must have overtaken at least two dozen... but was still 79th out of about 140 in  8hr 16... .  The real damage was done in some one or two bigger excursions in the first half of the race. Nevertheless, this run could hardly have been better from a training viewpoint - should really help in base building.  Have a good week everyone.
  • Good running over the weekend from people especially as the wind was no friend...

    Jools 3 mins in those winds sounds about right I would have thought or even more...

    my first 20 miler of the campaign yesterday with last 2 miles at MP

  • Well done on the long one, FBT. 

    Excellent stalking, Jooligan! There was also a lovely candid shot of my daughter getting very excited by the helicopters and aeroplanes. Sub 2:45 is probably a bit of a stretch, but I’ll not worry about it yet. I’ll see how training goes and what kind of a marker Wokingham can give me. 

    TR plan remains no taper, but it is a lighter week. 2ish warm up, race hard, 8ish warm down. More than happy to team up for a warm down should you fancy. 

    What an adventure, NE. I wouldn’t fancy all that mud, but could certainly appreciate some of the lovely views you’d have had from Bredon Hill. Well toughed out. 

    Enjoyable recovery debrief with spoons this morning. 7M at 8:30 pace. Legs felt fine. Although recently that’s been the case on a Monday, but Tuesday has then been a shocker. 
  • NE - Superb run off so little training!
    SQ - Nice marathon pace!
    Some great long runs too!
    12 miles for me on Saturday, then Sunday was 90 mins (21 miles) on the bike followed by a 4 mile run, legs felt good, so chucked in one at 10k pace (6:04 too fast!) and one at LT (6:20).
  • George - very freaky indeed! I think it was just chance that both of you were going to Burgess on the same day. Wind definitely played a factor on the weekend, and I think you'd have had it in better conditions. Nicely backed up with the long run.

    HA - hope it's nout too serious, enjoy the cut back week, you'll be fresh as a daisy for the next block. 

    Jools - don't get too disheartened by the result, winds that strong and there's no way you're going to run as fast. You've seen from recent results you're in good form, but if you race and train as much as you do, you're always going to have a few results you're not 100 % happy with.

    SQ - zero style points for that outfit, although I'm hardly one to talk. Looking forward to that sub 2:45 in London then!

    HPR - as mentioned to others, don't be too disheartened, all bets are off when the wind is up a bit - you're also is the middle of logging some major miles, so not exactly fresh. 

    Sounds like a good day out NE! Would've been under 8 without the unplanned detours. Hope to see you back in here a bit more. 

    TR - seems like things are going rather well for you at the moment, great to see. 
  • Fat Boy TrimFat Boy Trim ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019

    NE - that sounds like hell... 38 miles and wading through slurry - but congrats on sticking with it.

    nice running and biking Steve - just need to throw some swimming in as well....

  • Sounds like a tough run well managed NE, good work.
    It's all sounding more & more serious FBT. The less casual approach should pay off in April.
    It's No Run Monday but couldn't resist cycling in the beautiful weather. Perfect racing conditions :/
  • Finished off another decent week of training with 3 hours on the turbo followed by a 10km run off the bike. Pace for this was rather pleasing for the perceived effort. 

    The thing I really enjoy about training to heart rate is seeing the pace come down during your recovery runs for the same effort - very satisfying and proves that training does work!

    The sobering thought from the weekend was that my parkrun effort was done at half-marathon PB pace, despite the fact that I was running flat out (saw my highest heart rate for months at the end - 187bpm). Still a fairly hefty hill to climb. 
  • Great mile repeats in horrible weather George.

    FBT not sure how useful comparing HR and paces with other people is as it’s so individual. But that recovery pace looks a little fast to me - that’s about as fast as I ever got on a recovery run back when I was in 2:45 shape. Well done on the first 20 miler.

    Bad luck having to bail due to ice TR, but at least you got out there.

    Nice MLR and long run Ramjet

    Get well soon chicksta.

    Well done on the first finish Jooligan. Yesterday’s race doesn’t sound too bad to me, that wind was brutal. Kudos on the massive warm-down, I struggled to motivate myself for mine after the race, and I only did a third of the distance! Bad luck on the HRM, especially after we were discussing on Strava how well it had lasted! Hopefully just the battery?

    Well done for dipping under 18 minutes again Joe. I sympathise with your feelings, at Telford 10K last month I was barely faster than marathon PB pace, and the Linda Franks 5 last week was just under HM PB pace. While it’s good to see progress, it is hard to take sometimes when you compare to past fitness. As you say though, you’re making progress and I’m sure you’ll be back to where you were, and beyond, given a bit more time. 

    Great parkrun too George, to be so close to a PB during a big training week is great. And well done toughing out that long run, definitely one to train mental as well as physical strength!

    Hope the headache is better HA, enjoy the lighter week.

    In fairness SQ, your club vest is already a challenging purple/fluorescent yellow combo, so coordinating with that can’t be easy at the best of times! ;)

    Solid weekend HPR, even if the parkrun wasn’t quite where you wanted it to be.

    Well done with the ultra NE, great performance given the limited training.

    Nice MLR and brick Steve.

    10 miles along the river on Saturday, it was a bit muddier than it has been, but pace wasn’t too bad especially given the wind. Felt exhausted afterwards though, so a nice early night ahead of the Staverton 10. The plan was to do a big 10 mile warm-up, then run the race at marathon effort on tired legs. I was running slightly late, but managed to squeeze in a mile before meeting up with SQ for the rest of the warm-up. It was great to run with him as otherwise the warm-up on such a windy day might have been a bit boring and/or soul destroying.

    I was fairly pleased with the MP effort, 6:32/mi with most of it on my own and against pretty nasty wind. It’s a great little local race. though, and unlike certain other local events they managed to get the course right :D Legs were feeling pretty knackered towards the end, but managed to keep the effort up. Afterwards I contemplated not bothering with a warm-down, but forced myself back out the car for another 3 or so miles, bringing me to 110 for the week. Hopefully I can manage a few more of those, and then see where I am at Wokingham.

  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Blimey a fews days off and I've missed 2 pages! Had a quick flick through but not had time to read in any detail, but looks like lots of great base training going on.
    Got an LT run at lunch today which should be fun and a few hill sessions commuting to work later in the week. Did 16mi at the weeked and planning to get up to 20 this weekend, although its all a bit slow as its mainly off road stuff.
    Changed my diet a lot over the past year which seems to be bearing some fruit now - feeling a lot less tired and hungry with bags more energy. I've essentially just cut out all but a minimal amount of carbs and focused on eating some good fats. Recovery is also much faster as I've lost a lot of inflammation.
  • Intriguing stuff on the nutrition change, AWC and Kudos for sticking with it. I wish I had the willpower but my greed for bread, pasta and chocolate is insurmountable :)

    110 miles spoons, wow. That's one stellar comeback :+1:

    Northender: congrats, that's a good result on so little training. You have great base fitness. I'd be completely useless at events requiring navigation. They'd have to come and rescue me as I would probably get lost halfway up a mountain :D

    FBT: a HR monitor will certainly help to run slow runs slow and the sessions in the correct zones.

    Steve: how's the recovery going? Pacy miles there :)

    Jools: impressed by your stalking skills digging out SQ's race pic ;) And nice PR win.

    SQ: I think you co-ordinated that hat with the yellow of your shirt rather well. Those arm warmers somewhat clash a bit. Who knows. Trend scouts may already report their findings to London Fashion Week :) great MP sesh

    Top long runs Hydeparkrunner, George and Ramjet.

    Joe: solid training. Sounds like that was a particularly hard PR course. Don't beat yourself up. It's still only January. That pace will look very different in March :)

    I'm sure there's loads more great running to report on so please forgive me for not commenting on all achievements.

    Back on the roads with an incredibly slow 4 miles today. Hope the post-viral shitness is short lived.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    FBT - good going to hit MP at the end of your first 20.

    SQ - yes, nice one, would be good to have some company. You should be easy to spot!

    Joe - running is a rollercoaster, so im sure there will some dips along the way.  But last yr was tough as hammy issues ruined my vlm and yeovil GFA attempts, hopefully fate has sent me to smash Brighton instead.

    Spoons - thats a good 10m at the end of a big week, well played.

    15m run home tonight.
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