P&D Spring Marathon 2019

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  • Sounds like a well run race NE. I enjoyed the report, some of which sounds very familiar, fortunately not the slurry bit.

    I’ll get the parkruners/ venues mixed up so will just say well done to all, onwards and upwards.

    A good pair of 10m training runs spoons and SQ.  Sounds like a good effort on the 8m Jools in the conditions.

    LR kudos to Ram, George, HPR and especially FBT 😀

    Decent LT spotted on Strava AWC. I don’t worry too much about pace on the trails as the effort is usually higher.

    Hope you’re over the lurgy Chicksta and you haven’t caught it HA.

    Another decent MLR banked there TR.

    I was a bit disappointed to DNS the Southerns at Parliament Hill on Saturday but some real life stuff was more important.  Some more real life stuff ensued Sunday, watching my 11yo play drums in a workshop type gig thing.  I mention this because there was a bar there which made the fact I got out gone 9pm for my 22m even more impressive/ daft than usual.  I’ll have to rejig this week as it’s Superbowl
    Sunday this weekend I believe.


  • Were you half-cut for the 22M Macca or did you exercise self-discipline early?
    Chicksta Hopefully that was just the cobweb clearer after your week of lurgy & you'll be fresh & raring to go on the next run. I wasn't stalking SQ btw - a few clubmates ran the same race & one of them posted a link to his pic so I had a look through to see who else had run.
  • Jools - to be fair there were a few hours and a meal between a couple of beers and the run. I think a 3rd beer would have tipped me over edge though.
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019

    Nice PR win Jools – as for Lliswerry8... I did hear it was a touch breezy!  There are certainly some pretty exposed bits of that course.

    Joe – it must be terrible to be running such slow times!!  As you know, I’ve not followed and not sure if there’s a specific reason for your (relative) lack of fitness – hopefully you’ve just had a good off-season.

    Good to see the mileage is massive spoons!

    AWC...   interesting about the diet.  I’ve not read back...  presumably it’s an intolerance or something.  Must be a bit restrictive at first, but I’ve known other people make similar changes and it’s been well worthwhile.

    Chiksta... Getting a Fenix 3, which gives you a rudimentary track to follow, is a big help.  But not foolproof, as I demonstrated. (the inadvertent extra distance was enough to push me past 60m for the week... my 3rd highest ever!

    TR, george... hello.

    Hope you’re feeling better HA.

    ramjet... good pace... good mileage.

    Macca... I thought I was mad with some of my late evening stuff but 22m at that time takes the biscuit!

    FBT.... do I detect some uncharacteristic discipline creeping in J

    HPR  another one on big mileage¬!

    Nice for me to be back.  I maybe overplayed the toughness of the course...  it was largely flat, with a few exceptions. And underfoot there was plenty of easy stuff, but definitely plenty of horrendous mud in places and I was pleased that I could relentlessly move forward and mainly getting stronger – slow but happy.   I certainly was NOT exaggerating the slurry...  hopefully I can upload a screenshot of someone else’s video. 

    Oh, and SQ...  I’ve not been up Bredon Hill before.  I’ll take your word that the views are great (here's a photo to illustrate :).  And... nice 5m record...   Tokyo 2020? And pictures from Staverton please.



  •  Hmmm.... I seem to have got my self a bit of a reputation on here!

    NE - that looks horrid.

    a DNS from Macca :o  and 22 miles trumped me by 2miles...

    I'm going to continue with my discipline with a recovery / GA session today!

  • Glad to hear you're back on the roads Chick.

    AWC - sounds like I've got a similar diet to you. Don't eat any carbs, barring porridge, which I could never give up, as it's my favourite food in the world. A bowl is probably my only carbs for the day. All morning training done before eating, to utilise fat burning capability. Seems to work for me, but not everyone's cup of tea.

    Spoons - another absolutely humongous week. You, more than anyone, tempt me into dropping the bike and running 100 mile weeks to see where it takes me.. 

    Macca - I was looking out for you, as I saw a few striders over there. Made sure to give them a cheer. Glad to see there's a fellow NFL fan amongst us! I'll be staying up for the entire game, but it screws with my body clock for the following couple of days. Refuse to miss it though. 

    NE - It's all relative I guess, what's 'slow' for me isn't for other and vice versa. Just been enjoying food and not doing much hard training. Getting back into it now though.

    Got a session done this morning with the forecast big freeze on it's way. 8x800 on the track. First one 2:49 and the rest all 2:45. Didn't feel great though, not one of my better sessions, just couldn't seem to get going properly. Glad I got it done though. 
  • Chicksta - I think I'm back, no issues injury wise. Just trying to get back to where I was fitness wise.
    Macca - Nice late night 22m!
    AWC - Nice LT run.
    Early morning start for a cold but enjoyable 10 miles.
  • HA might be currently pulling his hair out - it appears there's a triathlete at the top of the weekly distance table on Strava. Still early doors though, Spoons hasn't got started yet  :D
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Some good running going on. Nice LRs with MP from Spoon and SQ and also from FBT!!!! Well done on the ultra NE - impressive off such a limited build up. 

    Joe - good to see you're getting back into it. I sense SQ is trying to steal some of your sandbags.

    Felt fine yesterday but didn't run, prioritising a bit more sleep and a jog to the barbers at lunch. Will get out today for something pretty short. Got a bit of CBA at the moment. I think I pretty regularly get a bit of SAD around this time of year, nothing serious, but enough to lose a bit of motivation.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    NE: ahhhh the slurry!!! Well done on the race.
    Macca: those late night runs are tough, but character building! Not my favourite but better than not training at all I guess.
    Chicksta: hope the lurgy passes quick, its no fun at all that kind of stuff
    NE: I never felt like I had an intolerance to carbs - the change just came from following a few runners (Zach Bitter & Jeff Browning), and also from reading a lot of Tim Noakes (particularly his trial on LCHF diet). Its only subsequently now I've disovered the effect it was having on my sleep, work, trainning etc.
    Joe: sounds very similar - definitely feel like its improving my fat burning and I've lost that feeling of having run out of fuel on a long run which is a good sign. Porridge was the last to go for me - bacon, eggs and avocado has softened the blow though :)
    Snow forecast today/tonight and I'm supposed to be commuting home and back in tomorrow morning. Will have to play it by ear as don't fancy my commute hills in the snow.
  • HA - definitely know what you mean re; a bit of SAD. I really, really dislike this time of year. Just keep getting in what you can, it'll soon change.

    AWC - my main issue is definitely breakfast/convenience. Bacon and eggs etc not really possible during the working week at my desk - has to be something I can quickly sort in the work kitchen. + I love porridge. 
  • Well done with the 12M, Steve. Speedy running when combined with the biking too. Definitely a secret multi-sport athlete.

    Good work with the diet, AWC. Great when you find what works for you. It sounds like mine is very similar, although I approached it as a Type 1 Diabetic. I think metabolic flexibility is crucial for me. Morning running, no carbs – so definitely fat adapted – but still able to utilise glucose as a fuel during marathons, when have a few gels. Most importantly, the food is delicious!

    Nice track session, Joe. 5:30m/m nothing to be sniffed at! Chia seed porridge can be a good work option, Joe. Boiled eggs as well. But if the porridge works for you then perfect.

    22M post beer has good to be a PB of some sort, Macca. Think I once tried to run 8M after 4 burgers and 2 pints. Very nearly sick mid run.

    Jooligan I genuinely appreciated you sharing the photo – thank you. I always enjoy seeing a few photos on the thread (although the work filter blocks them). But apologies to anyone whose eyes were left bleeding after seeing my fashion faux pas.

    No sandbagging here, HA, at least not yet. I have attempted sub 2:50 four times now!

    Very fatigued (as predicted) for this morning’s 10 with 10 x 100m strides. Could only manage recover pace of about 8:30s, but wasn’t willing to force it any more. Ended up sacking off the final mile as I figured I had run for the prescribed time at least. We’ll see what tomorrow brings. A well-timed recovery week at least.


  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    I'm always interested in these discussions about diets. 

    I've tried to cut back on processed food but I would say I still eat lots of carbs. I eats lots of porridge, lentils and fruit which are all high in carbs but have lots of other good nutrients too. I guess it often helps to have a reason to change and I can't really find one. With early mornings and family stuff I don't always get as much sleep as I'd like, but I generally sleep well. I don't struggle with energy through the day and I've always been able to do morning long runs without eating breakfast or taking gels (although I've felt like I could be hitting my limit on runs over 23 miles a couple of times).

    The other thing is I've cut back the amount of meat I eat mainly because my wife is vegetarian but also for other reasons - feeding the earth and all that. Not sure if the recent issue with low iron was related to this but I feel like I've managed to turn this around without much effort. 

    One thing I struggle to believe is that eating processed meat like bacon or sausages is better for you than some porridge and fruit. Completely unscientific opinion though and I do like bacon. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Fair enough SQ, just nail that 2:50 then take the stabilizers off.
  • HA - They are all good carbs... Its the crappy sweets, cake and white bread cards that are evil (The ones I eat :-) )

    Right I'm off for a run!

  • Enjoying not being chief sandbagger for a change. Still trying to get all the sand out of my trunks from London 2017. SQ - I think you'll fly this year in the right conditions. I'm just hoping to run under 3:30 if possible. That's my target. 

    HA - very admirable re; cutting down on the meat. I just couldn't do it, I enjoy it far too much. How many hours you reckon you get a night? I always go for 8 if possible, as I think it's really important in the grand scheme of things. 
  • Joe I'd definitely agree with the importance of sleep. I am not always great at shortening a planned morning run to get more sleep (probably negative net benefit in the long run), but am now far better at sacking off rubbish TV at night in order to get to bed a bit sooner. 

    HA I genuinely believe that everyone is different and you have to find what works for you. Interestingly, I also tested positive for low iron last week (whilst having my standard diabo bloods done). The nurse said this classed me as anemic. I went back for a follow up blood test this morning so we will see what that brings. I am in a similar position to you - my wife doesn't eat meat although does eat fish. I have just added some mussels to the online grocery order!

    Did anyone see that VLM were advertising for 2:50 pacers? This would be a new addition. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    I tend to get 8 hours on 4 nights a week, sometimes a bit more on weekends, then get up early 3 days a week to fit in a morning run, so usually only get 6-7 hours. I did try getting up early every week day, which would mean I could fit another 15 miles into the week but after a week or so I was too tired so decided I needed to prioritise the extra sleep.

    SQ - My wife's the same, she eats fish, it's just easier to say she's vegetarian than go into some explanation or use a stupid word like pescetarian. Hope the iron's ok. Certainly doesn't seem to be affecting your running at the mo. Pork liver had the highest concentration of heme iron I could find. My wife isn't too keen on the smell though so I only cook it up when she's out of the house.

    Pacer schmacer. You won't need it.
  • Fat Boy TrimFat Boy Trim ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019

    Joe, I think you did a typo there - you put 3:30!!!!!

    Im just back from  a 7 miler GA (all in aerobic zone).

  • Great the diet work is showing results AWC.

    Good you’re back out there chicksta.

    Going out for your long run despite several beers is good going Macca

    That looks… unpleasant… NE!

    It would be interesting to see Joe, especially as you (touch wood) seem pretty injury resistant. However, I suspect the amount of extra time you spend cycling and swimming provides similar, if not greater, benefits. Most of the mileage that pushes me up from ~80 to above 100 is just very slow recovery pace. Nice session, given the recent parkrun time 2:45 sounds about right for 800s?

    Will hopefully correct that leaderboard anomaly when I get out for my second run later ;)

    Sensible to prioritise sleep HA, it is so important especially during heavy training. I try to get 8 hours if I can.

    Panic over SQ, no need to worry about being labelled chief-sandbagger with Joe’s 3:30 prediction :D (Did you mean 3:00 Joe?) Wise to cut that run short, no point flogging yourself for an easy run.

    Great to see you sticking to the training FBT, keep it up and I'm sure you'll reap the rewards.

    Interesting discussion around diet. Personally I think for most people a balanced diet with lots of variety is probably best, restricting whole food groups without good reason just doesn’t make sense to me. Clearly in cases like SQ where there is a specific medical reason a more restrictive diet makes sense. But the current demonisation of all carbs is as silly as the previous demonisation of all fats, imho. I listened to a podcast recently with Renee McGregor, a sports dietician, who was talking about athletes she’s seen who have done real damage by attempting extreme LCHF diets combined with heavy training. But I appreciate this is easy for me to say as someone who eats lots of carbs apparently without issue, and if you find something that works for you then great.

    I’m down in London tomorrow (weather permitting) so my plan has needed rejigging this week - very rude of my clients to disrupt my training! I didn’t fancy doing a session so soon after Sunday’s hard long run, so did my MLR instead, and dropped the pace a little to avoid overdoing things. 14 peaceful miles along the canal in cold but reasonable conditions, was happy with 7:35/mi for my usual “easy” HR/effort. The legs felt surprisingly good after the weekend, all this yoga and strengthening exercises seem to be doing the trick. 

    I’m hoping to get out early for some kind of run tomorrow morning, but it will depend on the weather. Given the amount of grit they were dumping on the river bridge earlier the council seem to be expecting a new ice-age. Helpfully, it’s rained non-stop since so that’s all washed away!

  • Definite typo from Joe unless he's bringing the beach along too :D
    Sleep is definitely not something I get enough of. I eat a lot of good food & a lot of crap carbs too. I have a dreadful sweet tooth though not so many teeth any more  :p
    Banked my day's mileage before the rain hit B) 8M inc 10x0.1M strides first thing then 5.1 at lunch.
  • To dispel all rumours, I did in fact mean 3:30. I'm not the runner I used to be you see, so all bets are off. If training goes well and we get some good conditions I might bump that up to 3:27:30.

    Nice running Spoons. We will have to try and hook up for a run when you're in town one time.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Joe: when I'm run commuting I take a couple of boiled eggs to work and grate some cheese and drizzle olive oil over them. I also keep plenty of avocados at work.
    SQ: taste definitley isn't a problem - it was a concern for me the thought of removing bread, pasta, rice, cakes etc from my diet but I don't miss it at all. I certainly find I need to increase my carb intake when I have races/big sessions planned and am still learning what works best. However I had fried eggs and bacon before my ultra and that seemed to go well although I felt a bit nervous doing it!
    HA: in terms of meat I stick to grass fed, outdoor bred stuff from my local butcher which has a totally different nutrient profile to the unsustainable and commercially farmed stuff in the supermarkets (and on which all the negative science about meat is based).
    Sleep - I find I really struggle to run well if I'm underslept so try and stay on top of it, although its not easy with a 4 month old. Means we end up going to bed about 8.30/9pm at the moment
    I'm constantly checking the forecast here as its changing by the minute - have about an hour to decide if I'm gonna run home or not as the forecast has turned to sleet now from 5pm.
  • Joe....I hate to protest too much but unless you have piled on 3 stone you are taking the pi##....(or going for another record dressed as a hippo)

    You could probably run 3:30 without even training. you just did sub 3 a few months ago!

    In that case Im revising my time to 4:30.... maybe 4:27 at a push!

  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Joe: I totally missed that. Someone has clearly hacked your account :# 3:30 you cannot be serious!
    Spoons: don't know how anyone could do any sort of proper training on zero carbs. Not surprised they ended up fried. Tim Noakes is an interesting read - think he's rewriting Lore Of Running and in particular the nutrition section.
  • Fat Boy TrimFat Boy Trim ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    :D How could you miss that AWC - it has just flashed up on the BBC website "record marathon holder crashes out with predicted 3:30 marathon time...."
  • Silly busy at work today but time for a 15m MLR and time for a giggle at the beach/sand references😂
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Macca - impressive booze 22m combo.

    NE - hello yourself.

    Joe - you had best run a suitably slow run at wokingham to justify your 3.30 prediction.

    I think low carb is good for general health fitness, but not endurance sports. Lots of these things come and go, its all a bit faddy at times. Old school carb depletion and loading is popular again now.

    5m recovery today, all i had time for, hopefully another mlr tomorrow if the weather allows.
  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭
    Fantastic MP there SQ. You seem to be flying at the moment.

    Nice LR HPR

    Well done on the ultra NE. Looks like you had a strong finish.

    Great brick run Steve.

    110 miles for the week Spoons!!! I didn't think the hardest P&D plan went that high!

    Glad you are back running Chicksta.

    Another incredible night run Macca! 

    HA - you are right about the smell from cooking liver. I think I can still smell the giblets from Christmas dinner in the kitchen!

    Cross training day yesterday and then 10 miles with 5 @ LT today. I split the 5 into 3 miles and then 2 miles as that seems to be the modern way and who am I to argue with progress? ;-)

    The weather was abysmal, the legs seemed a bit tired and the pace was off. But the effort was good! I am not sure if I can recover enough from an 18 miler in two days to do a good LT run. But it is another session ticked off.
  • HydeparkrunnerHydeparkrunner ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Jooligan - HM PB is 1:37:30ish and was done at Wokingham the exact same time in plan as Watford this weekend. The hope is to run around 1:30 and then repeat what I did last time by running the marathon at a pace quicker than the half.

    NE - Congrats on the ultra. Anything with navigation would feel too much like school and the duke of edinburgh award. If I'm putting in all the training, someone should at least point me in the right direction  :)

    FBT - Nice long run, pretty sure my legs were in bits in the last 3 or 4 miles of my first 20 miler, so impressive 2 @ MP.

    Joe - 3:30  :D:D:D

    RSR - Good marathon pace effort with the wind on Sunday, great mileage for the week

    Chicksta - Hopefully the 4 miles was just blowing away the cobwebs and you'll be soon back firing on all cylinders

    Macca - 22 miles at 9pm post a couple of beers? That's up there with one of the most impressive feats I've read on this thread!

    HA77 - I've definitely had more of an internal struggle in January to get out for my runs. I always feel much better after doing it, but much easier said than done.

    Ramjet - Good effort getting out to do your LT run in this weather, I think general consensus is as long as the effort is there the pace doesn't matter too much to get the training effect.

    Diet - I make a conscious effort to increase my carb intake during marathon training after reading P&D fully. Mostly by incorporating brown rice or pasta with my evening meal. I also add in porridge the same as Joe to eat at my desk, when not marathon training I generally skip breakfast all together. A turn off for me in low carb diets is the reliance on meat or meat derivative products. I love them, but I'm trying to cut down to lower my carbon footprint.

    Sleep - When not training I get by on 6 hours sleep, during training I need 8 generally. I realise I'm posting this after midnight, but today has been pretty stressful and my mind isn't quite ready to shut off.

    15 MLR for me tonight after previously mentioned crappy day. The first time in the plan I've had a real desire to sack it off. Got through it in about 7:54mm, legs didn't feel too bad afterwards. Very happy to have got out and done it.


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