Overdone it?

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    kevin70 said:
    Tempo, marathon pace, threshold, CT...... confuses me :s  Can you do a tempo at any paces i.e. mp/hmp. Got a hm next weekend bit hilly but hopefully can run it at some pace:)
    Just call anything quicker than "easy" tempo, for ease of use  o:)

    The other widespread use of "Tempo" is directly after you finish a race and lose to someone you wish you hadn't. At which point you need to casually stroll over and say "it was just a tempo".
     o:) 
  • I missed the puppy in the photo the first time round also :smiley:
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Haha, yes ive had a really shit race i was slightly non committal towards go tits up and got beaten by people i really shouldn't of and immediately put forward the threshold shout!

    Skinny, i think then what you are saying is that if i can run 6.27mm for 10 in training and not be somehow replicating 10m race effort, then im capable in an actual target race of 15 seconds a mile faster? I'm not sure of that and equally not confident enough to try that after my last 2 shit halfs but think sub 6.20 pace is finally on the cards in a true effort. 
  • macemace ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:

    Skinny, yes you are right, however I suppose we have to factor in that perhaps you had  amore generous dose of running genetics than I have.



    He has longer legs - as a thread we already agreed that longer legs = big advantage  :)
  • mace said:
    DT19 said:

    Skinny, yes you are right, however I suppose we have to factor in that perhaps you had  amore generous dose of running genetics than I have.



    He has longer legs - as a thread we already agreed that longer legs = big advantage  :)
     :D:smile:

    Longer legs but a shit foot at the end of one of the legs = big disadvantage :-(
  • just shy of 19m so far this week for me.   Some kinda of quality session tomorrow planned followed by the usual long run and a recovery on Sunday.  

    6, 0, 6.5, 6
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    working from home today so 13 easy over lunch. Had a few beers last night and feel disproportionately rough so the second half was a right trudge. 
  • I have found that even after a couple of beers I've been sluggish the next day.  Either that or it plays havoc with my bowels at around 5 miles in, usually when I'm furthest away from a toilet.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    if you have toilet roll in your pocket you'll never be more than a few minutes from a toilet!!

  • Anyhow I might have but I'm basing my statement on what you are achieving in your training and how you should be able to convert on race day. Don't be shit.
    Yeah, I agree in the specific with DT but have seen plenty of people pulverising themselves in training and it not translating to races like SG's example.

    If DT really wanted to be confident he was working within his half capacity he should see steady state heart rate for the 10 miles :):smile: - that is, no drift upwards with time. 

    DT19 said:
    if you have toilet roll in your pocket you'll never be more than a few minutes from a toilet!!
    Oh no. Please don't re-ignite that discussion.
  • Yes, let's not go there again.
  • That's an interesting thing you've said there muddy.  Something that will give me confidence on race day will be knowing that the training I've done leading up to the event means I can pretty much nail whatever goal I've set myself (gale force winds and injury aside).  

    If say three weeks before I were to do 10 miles @ 7:15 and see a nice steady HR, could I take this to mean things are looking rosy?  I know it's not an exact science and we're all different.  I'm just looking for perhaps another indication that I'll be ready come race day.

    Cheers
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited February 7
    i dont see that on an easy run. There has to be some rising of hr just with the effort over time. 

    Looking at Yorkshire mara, my hr gradually rose through out peaking in the last mile. 
  • Perhaps it's something that comes with years and years of conditioning.
  • I don’t have years and years of conditioning; I can show quite a few examples of runs within my capabilities with steady state behaviour. People will beg me not to though 😀!

    I accept in a race of half to marathon distance that running around your limits can provoke this gradual rise but a targeted training run for either of these efforts should be well under threshold and be at a steady state in decent weather conditions. The slower the rise of hr over time, the better the indication that you will have the capacity come race time.

    We  tend not to warm up for easy runs or we do them when fatigued from a prior session and that’s why they have some volatility over time.
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Believe it or not, I actually would be mildly interested to see what counts s as steady state in a heart rate trace, because they all just look spiky to me.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭


    Muddy, so are you saying that if you did a 10 mile tempo you would expect to be no more tired at mile 10 than you were at mile 3?

    My average hr was 167 which was in the middle of the 165-170 zone I work them to. My hr for each split went=

    155,161,165, 165, 167, 169, 170, 171, 171 and 173

  • I would say fatigue/tiredness and HR were two different things.  I can feel tired towards the end of a a long run but my HR is still in the comfortable zone.
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited February 8
    No, DT,  I'm saying that my heart rate would be pretty much the same at mile 3 and mile 10, on a flat route working under capacity. My perception of effort would be another matter.

    Based on that split info - it's too high towards the end. Not saying it's not a tremendous  session with great training stimulus, but busting through the hm zone in the last couple of miles puts me more in mind of a racing profile than a training profile.

    Lit - Optical HR is great at giving nonsense. Also hilly routes make spikes.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    so you would have kept HR below the 170 line in the last 3 miles then?
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    I mean tiny little spikes rather than massive ones - or does yours just look like a flat line?
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited February 8
    DT - I wouldn't have run it to pace and limited effort yes, but if I felt like a bit of leg stretch at the end, I would be quite happy to throw that in. It's not so much about the session itself, but looking at the metrics to understand what you might be capable of in a race situation. 

    Ah, there are moderate ups and downs Lit, reflecting my own pacing changes (for whatever reason, puddle or pedestrian dodging, clearing a junction etc.) but they are largely flat - in that paces and hr averaged over a mile agree at the front and back ends of the run. Here's one below (McFlooze might recognise), which was running to marathon effort for 7m then having a bit of a surge towards the end.


  • Hmmmm - looking at that your pace has stayed the same but your HR has gone up?

    Lovely flat route though!
  • Surge towards the end Skinny - got to have some fun !
  • If you surged though (as shown by your HR) should your pace not have surged too? Looks like you've just kept 'plodding' (ha fkn ha) along.

    Anyhow HR is a pile of shit (that seems to have helped you become one of best V45 runners in country :wink:).
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    I guess that the surge meant that he maintained approximately the same pace whilst getting more tired. If he had kept his HR the same his pace would have dropped, in line with the thoughts above that your heart rate probably creeps up over the course of a tempo type session or race (and maybe a n easier run if you're easy runs aren't easy enough).

    I don't know much about HR stuff though  
  • No, it was just a bit exposed and into the wind - so pace wasn't really responding. I was increasing my effort to catch up with a lady ahead of me that I thought was around my age category (nothing prideful, just curiosity ;) )

    I was mainly posting the above for Lit to see the sort of modulations that happen even when keeping perceived effort about right. I'll dig out something more relevant to the discussion with DT if I get time.
  • macemace ✭✭✭
    16M yesterday for a 35M week.

    Working at my parents' place all day Saturday so didn't really fancy going out in the wind and rain yesterday morning, but forced myself out the door and it felt ok in the end. 

    Right knee feels alright but i definitely have a touch of PF in my left foot. Problem is i need to get some half decent miles in or even a sub-4 jog won't be pretty. I've averaged 28M/wk since the beginning of November and 35M/wk last 4 weeks.
  • Morning all,

    I stupidly left my only running pair of trainers at work over the weekend meaning I couldn't get out for the long run.  Frustrating but there we go.  New week this week and the sun is out :smile:
  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    The shocking part about that statement was "my only pair of running trainers".  Does not compute.  You should have just bought another pair  B)

    I had XC on Saturday which was the first genuine mud-fest of the season (and the last). And as they'd needed to reroute the course due to flooding the whole course was a whole mile long! Meant yesterday's long run was a slog fest.  Stupidly tried for a MP tempo but legs were not playing so dropped down to normal pace and cut that short at 15 miles.  

    Go steady on that foot, Mace.  I'm having similar doubts as took a week off for a slight calf strain, then a few days off last week for a nasty blister.  Also feeling like I've missed too many miles. Since November I've averaged 31 miles.  Only 28 miles last week.  Will see how next few weeks go or might need to reevaluate.  
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