P&D Spring Marathon 2019

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  • Note to self : rescind sports masseuse application in light of relevation that all runners present with leopard print thongs/mankinis.

    NE - don’t underestimate 9 weeks of consistent consistency.

    George - I cant recall your background ie whether you’ve got decent miles in the legs over a decent period of time but if so, have to agree with the sandbagging charge😀 Well done on the 10k nonetheless.

    Another quality LR TR, boded very well being in control of the pace especially in the conditions.

    Likewise good LRs from AWC and Jools(on raced legs).  7:15 without pushing it SQ is a good place, hope the hip flexor settles down.  I had that recovery week a few weeks ago, I’m not sure I’ve recovered from it yet.  Same plan, next week gives me a morning 15m MLR then an afternoon 4m RR which seems a bit strange given there are a few low days that week.

    Impressive tough session HA, by the time I’ve warmed up I’m in hanging on for dear life mode, impressive pick up in pace.

    Muddy - I look forward to race photos of the Newport Nipple Destroyer ! Great time off no taper and hope you can squeeze in those LRs.  Happy to pace on a pro bono basis but it would only be to about 15 miles at that pace, you’d be on your own after that !  SQ - would love to work together again at London but my plan peaks 7th April in Manchester.  That said if M’chester goes wrong London is the back up.

    I had the 20 w 14@mp Sat just gone.  As I’d done it a few weeks ago so I thought I’d increase it to 16@mp.  Legs were feeling unfresh from Wokey and a Thurs vo2 but I had mentally committed.  Conditions were good Sat am and whilst hard work from the off, I held 6:30 bang on up to 13m, it slipped miles 13 and 14 into 6:40s as I couldn’t make up the pace lost on a few turns, undulations and pedestrian traffic.  Halfway through the 16th mp mile my digestive system decided to wake up at about the same time a bunch of golfers were looking for an errant ball in the local woods.  All targets were adjusted to getting home in one piece.  Overall pleased with the run but a timely reminder how quickly pace can (amongst other things) slip.


  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Very good LR TR, fast last 5 miles esp with the wind, i always find the progressive long runs hard work, but i suppose that's the point of them.

    Really well done on the PB George. Hope the heel is nothing serious and quickly heals.

    Solid LR Jools, esp after racing XC, it really takes it out of your legs. Belated congrats on the gfa. And good luck on the sub 3 attempt.

    NE, keep the head up, a bad run doesn't make or break you, as TR says keep the head and keep going and it will all come good.

    Hope the hip improves quickly SQ, and the physio can sort it out for you, after admiring your leopard print first of course. Very good 20 miler from you at the weekend, impressive average pace. I agree completely, i thought my plan was a misprint with this week being labelled recovery. If im honest, i cant see past this 7@LT for Friday, its worrying me already.

    HA77 that is a super session, very quick paces esp when your not busting a gut.

    AWC fair play to you getting 17 mile done in bad wind, its those runs you can fall back on when the marathon gets mentally tough.

    FBT sorry to hear that, hope your back up and running soon.

    A 1.18 half when your fatigued is a very very good run Muddy, well done. Whats the craic with people using last years bibs though? Was it sold out or...?

    I had a solid weekend, 8 with strides on saturday felt good, esp as it was cut back week, followed by 18 mile with 12 at MP yesterday. I averaged 6.21/22 m/m over the MP pace miles and felt good and in control for the most part which im delighted with, as i was aiming for and would have been more than happy with 6.3x's. I cheated slightly, as instead of my usual rolling route i headed for the relative flatness of the canal tow path near me for the 12 paced miles. Recovery 6 this morning, to be followed up with 4 this evening after work....which im not overly looking forward to as its snowed non stop here from 10.00 am, with a fair bit lying, just hope it doesnt freeze over night. And after last weeks weather I thought spring was here too :D

    Start of the 87 mile week for me this week, so a bit nervous about how ill hold up, but nothing else for it really, other than give it a good go.
  • HydeparkrunnerHydeparkrunner ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    A busy end of the week has meant I’ve missed quite a lot. I’ll get through runs from the weekend, apologies for missing stuff in the week.

    TR - Nice long run. I’ve never really considered doing them as progression runs. I think mainly because my fitness varies so much from start to end of plan, so 20% feels hard at the start but 10% feels easy at the end.

    George - Nice 10k, I agree with the sandbagging comments. Hope your heel is feeling better.

    Jooligan - Sounds like a big weekend from you, glad it went well.

    NE - Sorry to hear about the disappointing race. 9 weeks is still a long time to improve, especially with some weight to lose as well

    SQ - Good long run and I hope the hip flexor isn’t anything too serious. I’ve only had massages where they give you the paper pants, of which I think a leopard print thong would be preferable. 

    HA77 - Nice reps, even the ‘slow’ one  ;)

    AWC - I think those kind of runs are good for mental strength, I had a very similar one on Sunday.

    FBT - Hopefully the injury clears up soon

    Muddy - Congrats on the half time. Serious commitment to use annual leave to get your training in.

    Macca - Really impressive getting that week in after Wokingham, I certainly wasn’t capable of it. Maybe also why the pace dropped slightly in the last 2 miles, certainly nothing to worry about you’re in great shape.

    Hamo - Welcome, I’d seen you pop up on the Strava group before but hadn’t figured out who you are on here. Sounds like a really good weekend, 10 seconds per mile quicker for the marathon miles is very promising. A couple of times in the plan already I’ve hit a PB for weekly mileage. I’ve been fine, but when the legs were feeling it a bit I made sure to stick to the slower end of the paces.

    As I mentioned previously, I swapped weeks in plan after feeling the fatigue from Wokingham. Even then, I didn’t feel up to doing the intervals until the weekend, but decided to replace them with an MLR so I wasn’t too fried for the Sunday LR. I think all in all it wasn’t too bad of a week, a lot more climbing as I was back home in Yorkshire, so hopefully that provided some gains which I lost from skipping intervals. Sunday was a difficult one, partially because of the weather and partially because I’d spent the previous 3 nights socialising with friends and family to the early hours.

    With 5 weeks to go, it really feels like I’m into the home straight of the plan. The next 2 weeks are big including 14 @ MP this Sunday and then I’m into the taper. From today I’m also going to cut down on some of the bad foods and cut out alcohol completely, which should yield some quick fitness gains. 

  • Muddy - I look forward to race photos of the Newport Nipple Destroyer ! 
    Funnily enough ...



    I don't normally run like that, but was making some chest related adjustments.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    You look like you're doing the chicken dance :D
    Looks like 9th place though - got to be a record!
  • As always struggling to keep up!

    Good racing in Newport Muddy, I'd say a decent result all things considered, especially with injuries in the build up - impressive stuff. 

    NE - as others have said, don't get too caught up on an individual results. Stay positive, plenty of time to log the miles from now.

    Nice work with the 10km PB George.

    Good luck to those cracking on with the 87 mile week!

    Mentally busy weekend. The only proper time I had to myself was Saturday morning. Went for a quick 'blast' around Wimbledon Common parkrun - off road/XC course, pretty muddy, 18:30 was quite a hard effort. 4th, which is my standard finishing position their, having been 4th four times but never higher. Did get beat by a guy being pulled by a dog though, so maybe I should take 3rd.

    Rest of the weekend consumed with race directing duties. Really glad I did it, as offered a great insight into what it takes to just put a small-ish event on. Thankfully everything ran pretty smoothly on Sunday. Biggest problem we had was some scamps had come along and tipped the portaloos over during the night so we had to pick them up without trying to get covered in blue fluid..

    Managed a 2 hour turbo between packing up and heading to the post-race social. Few too many beers and feeling it today.

    Puzzled about how to approach Reading half next week. It will have only been 3 weeks between Wokingham and race day, not sure how much gains can really be had in that time period. Not too keen on wiping out another 3/4 days training with taper/recovery. Thoughts very much welcomed. 
  • I was expecting a bit more of a blood soaked shirt if I’m honest, as if someone had actually pinned their race no to their nipples ! Good photo though, it looks like there’s no one behind you.
  • I think that was around 3 miles in Macca, when I was starting to feel uncomfortable and easing my vest off the affected areas. There was a good group ahead, but the field was pretty thinned out by that point. The only blood drawn was in the shower later.

    Good going with the race directing Joe. With my powers of recovery, I would do Reading at marathon effort with a pick up to maybe 3m at half effort towards the end if I felt like it.  However you've gained a lot just through January and while you've got a great result at Wokingham, I think you will have made gains and could go a little better at Reading with a taper and with a fast group pulling you along, if conditions are good. I don't think it will materially affect London either, given it's around 6 weeks out. When was your last down week ? Can you integrate the taper and race into one ? We are conditioned to start our down weeks on a Monday but there's no  reason not to have it around a race and race recovery.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    The massage attire gags made me laugh, i was going to say teeny tiny, tantalising tassle set, or is that more for the masseuse?

    SQ - good commiment and miles, hope the massage works. Im on the tennis ball and roller as my body is creaking a bit.

    HA - 10x1k, top work.

    AWC - well done for toughing out that long run.

    Macca - great work on that run. Id use your wokingham time as an mp guide anyway, although if you run to feel you might get a nice surprise.

    Hamo - thats a pacy mp section, getting down near 2.45 pace.

    Hyde - bit drastic cutting the beer, that'll be the last few days for me. Im more committed to beer than running.

    Joe - well fone on giving back.

    Work/life/cricket means a minimal 5m tomorrow so no mlr hometoday/10m back again tomorrow combo, so i upped the mlr and did 18m home tonight. Wind, rain x2 and hail x2.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Hamo re Newport Half: a lot of people were pretty frustrated last year as the race got cancelled due to snow, hastily rearranged only for the snow to strike again. Guess folks just felt they were owed a race.
    No running for me today just the usual bike commute/2K swim combo. Horrible headwind home meant the bike felt much harder than I wanted it to but then the planned easy swim ended up being fast yet effortless :)
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Muddy  a mankini would be very practical in this sense. And perhaps less dubious than HPR’s paper pants. Good time at Newport from you. Looks like you didn’t have much company and some very challenging conditions. Hope the nipples are on the mend. I find Peppa Pig plasters just the right size.

    HPR I also found recovery post Wokingham tough (still am!). It’s amazing what a few weeks of tightening the diet can do – although I find I only have the motivation before a marathon.

    Macca, ah of course it’s Manchester (and then London). You seem to be timing things very nicely and that is a great MP block.

    Hamo yes the 12w7 could be punishing – especially as I read that faster paces are what can aggravate hip flexors. Also, I have done all except the first LT session in races – makes a massive difference for me. Very strong MP from you. You could be well under 2:50 which will scupper my drafting chances! Hope the weather is ok.

    Well done on the RDing, Joe. Bastards tipping the portaloos over.

    Big midweek 18M, TR. +1 for the self massage – a hockey ball is my favourite.

     

    8M easy this morning at 7:38 pace. Had a return of jacket-gate which led to some pausing and GPS issues. Very rarely for me, I didn’t really enjoy it. Body felt creaky on the left side. Hip flexor probably a bit less noticeable than yesterday, but hamstring felt tight. Looking forward (in a sadistic way) to the massage later today.


  • Fat Boy TrimFat Boy Trim ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
     Jooligan said:
    You look like you're doing the chicken dance :D

    :D

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    9M fartlek averaging 7:28 for me this morning. P&D said 9M with 6x600m off 90s which I considered doing on the track but then decided I'd rather do something a bit less structured along the canal as it was such a beautiful morning - if a bit blowy. Ended up doing 7 efforts which varied in length from 480m to 950m & added up to 5.1K. Pace was shockingly poor, especially in to the wind, but the effort was there.
  • Great long runs HA, TR, Jools and AWC. Totally agree with your comment about being adaptive with any plan, HA.

    Impressive mileage for a short month Macca! I managed to creep over 300, which given I missed an entire week, isn’t bad I suppose :D 16 @ MP is a tough one to do solo, so great result particularly so soon after Wokingham. 

    Bad luck on missing the sub-38 George. Unfortunately neither GPS nor mile markers can ever be fully trusted. Massive PB though, so congrats. Hope the heel is ok.

    Sorry you didn’t have the race you wanted NE. Try not to be disheartened though, as you say it will come together eventually.

    No idea on the arm warmers SQ, possibly a bit of a fad, or an excuse to get more sponsor logos visible!? Great stuff from Muir, exciting to see what she can do at the worlds. That P&D recovery week must be a typo, the previous week is more of a recovery with the short long run, albeit not a huge cutback overall. Good luck with Nicola hope she can sort the hip out.

    Speedy reps HA.

    Hope the rest does you some good FBT, will be worth it in the long run hopefully.

    Great work at Newport Muddy, hope the nipples heal quickly!

    Great MP run Hamo. Nothing wrong with opting for flat ground when you want a true test of pace!

    Sounds like you’re going well HPR.

    Glad the race went well Joe. Impressive amount of training squeezed in around it too. My original plan for Bath (same day as Reading) was to run it at MP, having raced Wokingham. I guess you have to weigh how much you want a chance at a HM PB, versus other goals down the road.

    Quads felt like lead all weekend, so kept the long run to just 17. Managed 70 miles for the week, which I was pretty pleased with given that on the Saturday previous I was still unable to walk without discomfort. I have lost the fitness I seemed to find in the week before the injury, which is a little frustrating. But I’m sure if I keep plugging away it’ll return again.

    Took my nephew swimming on Sunday afternoon, and that definitely seemed to help ease the legs up a bit. They felt a bit better yesterday, but stuck to just the morning recovery with SQ in the hopes they’d be back to normal today. Thankfully they were, and I had an enjoyable canal ten this morning.

    My plan originally had the monster 20x1000m @ HMP NAZ session tomorrow. I’m keen to still give it a go, even if I’ve no real idea what my HMP is right now. I can always cut down the reps if I struggle. However, the forecast is looking wet and windy so I might move it to Friday which is forecast to be sunny and calmer.

    For those that might be interested, entries for Telford 10K are now open - get in quick if you want to be in the first wave! They have an insurance scheme this year, so if the race is postponed due to snow you can get a refund if you can’t make the second date. You can even pay a little extra for insurance to cover withdrawal for any reason. Not seen a race offer that before. 

  • Muddy/spoons - thanks for the input. I had a mini down week around Wokingham. I do feel like having another crack but might make a call early next week. Especially with London not being the A goal, I'm not so worried about missing a bit of training (still don't have a strategy for London yet..) Marathon pace at Reading seems vaguely tempting but I can see myself getting carried away.

    Careful with that monster session Spoons!

    TR - getting it done as always, I'm always impressed you just do it with minimal fuss. Great work.

    Jools - as long as the effort was there, the training benefit will come. 

    Was feeling a bit iffy yesterday, but just a bit of a cold so full steam ahead as far as I'm concerned. Decent bike session last night (2x20 mins overgearing) before 15 @ 7:23mm this morning. Felt really good, deliberately kept effort pretty easy, just had a few bathrooms breaks to contend with. 
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    For those that might be interested, entries for Telford 10K are now open - get in quick if you want to be in the first wave! They have an insurance scheme this year, so if the race is postponed due to snow you can get a refund if you can’t make the second date. You can even pay a little extra for insurance to cover withdrawal for any reason. Not seen a race offer that before. 

    Thanks for the heads up, spoons. I've entered. Pleased the quads are back to normal. I know a thing or two about that...

    Nice random fartlek, Jooligan. 

    Make a relatively early call, I reckon, Joe. If going for a PB, taper down and smash it. You're not short on miles. Just don't forget to tie your shoelaces. 
  • RSR - I think this is a feature of Strava Premium too ? The insurance for race withdrawal. Though I don't think it stretches to *any* reason. 20 x 1k @ hmp trumps 7 LT for the fear factor, that's for sure.

    SQ - May need to raid the first aid box at work for a lunchtime run.
  • TR - Impressive midweek long run.
    For 10 months of the year I’m definitely more committed to beer than running. But the last month before my only other marathon and January this year, I felt I made huge gains when I cut alcohol out altogether. Cutting out works better for my lifestyle as well because you get questioned a lot less at parties when you’re t total because of training, than if you’re only having a couple.

    SQ - Hopefully the massage sorts you out. Cutting out crisps and sweets will be more difficult than the beer. I’m just trying to leave no stone unturned, I don’t want to have any regrets post Manchester.

    Jooligan - Sounds like a tough session, I’m sure there will be a lot of training benefit even if you didn’t hit paces you might expect to.

    Spoons - Monster session to attempt so soon after coming back from injury. Don’t be afraid to bailout if it feels like you’re doing further damage.

    Joe - Well done on the RD’ing. If VLM was a major target or you felt you could PB then I’d say do Reading at MP. If not then I think mini taper and all out, as you’re in PB shape minus shoelace mishaps.

    7 mile recovery run yesterday. This evening is 6 x 1k, the first time I’ll have pushed the pace since Wokingham.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    HPR i admire your dedication, bad food and beer are the only things that keep me going through the hard runs :D

    Glad the race directing and the race itself went well Joe. I would say that if VLM is not the A race for you, i would go for a PB in the half. Your as good as there already, bar a shoelace or two, and it would be a nice confidence boost to post a pb time.

    Ah ok, fair enough then. Was just curious, but i suppose thats understandable. Thanks for clearing that up for me Jools. And well done on the fartlek, effort trumps pace, especially in the wind.

    Not sure about that SQ, i was planning on drifting behind you. Fingers crossed the physio can iron out those creaks for you tonight.

    Wow Spoons, that is one beast of a session, even reading it scares me, and im not the one who has to run it. Id be hard pushed to do that as a group, never mind on my own, fair play to ya. Just be careful and really listen to your body, you dont want to overdo it so soon after getting back. As HPR says dont be afraid of bailing if needs be. But, sessions like that and the fitness wont be long in returning.

    Just an easy-ish 8 mile for me this morning, more of a struggle than i would have liked if im honest. Legs felt very tired and heavy, so hoping the shake out this morning will liven them up a bit for tomorrows MLR 15 miles.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Blimey lots to catch up on!
    Joe: good job on the RD. Takes balls to do that, although I'm sure you're a natural!
    Macca: beast of a week to follow up Wokingham Half. Your powers of recovery are fantastic - PS I see you are in for the WW100. Tempted to do that myself
    Spoons: 20x1000m - less said about that the better. Although Zatopek wouldn't be impressed!
    Final LT run went well today - about 6:35/mi so feeling in good shape for Weymouth Half in 12 days time now.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    SQ - dont have a hockey ball but we have plenty of cricket balls to try.

    Spoons - good to see you building back up. Hope the session goes well.

    Joe - do similar to wokingham,? if you dont taper much then i find i cant dig too deep and therefore need much recovery. Its the taper, letting you race harder that leads to recovery being needed.

    AWC - good one on the LT pace.

    5m minimal commute run for me.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    TR: hockey balls and cricket balls sounds painful. I stick to the tennis ball or spikey massage ball
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Muddy 20 x 1k a definitely a far harder session than 12w7, and I would most certainly fear it. But for me, anything with some breaks in gives the opportunity to reset and resume. I guess I fear the gradual decline and disappointment of running slow mile after slow mile. God, I’m talking myself out of it already. Need to snap out of it!

    Super LT, AWC. Fingers crossed for some decent weather at Weymouth and you can smash it.

    TR cricket balls work well. I also find it is the surface on which you are rolling that can have a big impact.

     

    Yesterday afternoon I had an hour with Worcester’s strongest woman/sports massage therapist. Having witnessed childbirth I can’t believe this was actually more painful, but my god… Gave my quads, hamstrings and glutes a good going over and got right into the hip flexor. Unsurprisingly, the pain in the hamstring was linked to the hip. I am probably doing all I can on the prehab front, but some maintenance work was much needed. Felt a bit more sprightly on this morning’s 15M MLR, averaging 7:23s. This was way off the 7:04 of a month ago on the same route, but it was very muddy and slippery in places and I wore the NB Zantes rather than Adios. My glutes are now very sore, but this is no doubt due to an elbow battering them for an hour yesterday.

    Weights this afternoon, then I’ll need to think of some further excuses in advance of the 12w7 planned for Friday.


  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    SQ: I struggle with a tight right hammy as well which is linked to my glute. The ball rolling things works really well and also the yoga pigeon stretch is also helpful.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Cheers AWC. Just checkout that stretch. Looks bloody hard(!) but will give it a go. Looks a good one for glute and hip flexor stretching

  • I find interval style sessions the worst SQ; it's so hard to get going again when procrastination is an option ! I'm never a worrier about paces though --if it feels tough, it's a stimulus.

    Well done on the threshold session AWC.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Great running all!
    Macca - WW100!!!!! Crazy.

    Last week I went to Surrey Human Performance Institute for a Vo2 Max and LT test. Both went well, got my results e-mailed back to me before I had drove home!! LT was interesting as pace was slower than expected but HR was higher. But they have given me HR zones to train in, which I've now set in my Garmin.
    Started HM training for Edinburgh this week, so 8 miles yesterday and 6 miles with strides today.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    SQ - hope the legs recover quickly.

    AWC - yes, i think i get hammy/groin/sacro illiac issues which are all related.

    15m home tonight.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Bet that was interesting Steve. How much was the assessment? Are you going back for a follow up to track improvement?
    16.3 progressive miles for me after work. Opted for the treadmill (2% incline) as it was hammering down & I didn't fancy the flooded towpath in the dark again. Started at 8:00 & upped the pace every 12 minutes. I was doing 7:26 by the final 12 mins. Added a 5 minute cool down gradually slowing the pace back to 8s. Hope the weather holds out for tomorrow's cycle in/run back commute.
  • Steve it will be interesting to see if you feel it makes much difference. I suspect I run LT a bit quicker than optimum.

    SQ - game face on, nail that sucker. Agree with Muddy, as long as the pace feels honest.

    Spoons - good luck with the 20x1000m - not one to do in the wind and rain.

    AWC - well done on the LT, the splits looked spot on iirc. Good luck with Weymouth.  Looking at my race calendar WW100 wasn’t the brightest idea but as it’s a one off event I couldn’t help myself.  It’s only about 30mins from here( if that helps your decision making process?) and I’ve really enjoyed the 50 there.

    Hamo - hope the legs aren’t as heavy now , probably a bit of the MP run still in them ?

    HPR - I’m convinced some of my gains are down to less alcohol and rubbish food, a struggle though if I’m honest.  

    Joe - well done on getting any training in alongside the RD’ing. It would be good to read about you really going for it at Reading.

    TR - you’re making me feel a lightweight, only 14m here today.

    A couple of easier and very welcome days coming up ahead of the 10k tune up which will either be a solo TT or a park run, not decided yet. I’ve got a HM the following week, flatter than Woky but doesn’t feel as quick, so will call that one of the 2 remaining tune ups then it’s only a 22miler remaining that stands out.


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