Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭
    StevieWh said:

    Dachs - Fantastic result at Wokingham, really enjoyed the report. Are you doing a spring marathon?

    No, won't be marathoning until autumn.  I've decided I don't like spring marathons.  Well, I don't really like autumn marathons either, but there you go.

    RicF said:
    With an application that SG would be proud of, I went through the results of last years race and cross checked the names with the entries for this years event. Only five from the 25 who broke 40 minutes last time out are there this year - if they turn up.

    See any more names you recognised whilst you were doing that Ric?

    SG, good work on your mile race.  Too many 5:0xs at Ealing though, time to sort that out.  Some white knuckle parking stuff as well, in fact next time I'll happily just read the parking report.

    Excellent miling too Pete, a fast mile time at your advanced age is good going indeed.  Reading parkrun course is filth in winter - as it's the Thames flood meadow, the water table is really high, so any moisture and it gets wet right away.  Avoid in winter.

    Will be great to see you race Ric.  Feels a very long time ago that last happened.

    Promising sounding XC Jooligan.  How on earth do you get spotless XC toilets though?  Any toilets even vaguely in the vicinity of a race I've been to look like they've been visited by one of those shit-spraying hippos.

    Welcome back Matt H and iower.

    Decent racing there Simon, shame about the rival old bastard. 

    Sounds like a great run that muddy, your description of the course makes it sound a bit fussy, and conditions far from ideal, you could well be on for a sub 2:40 marathon.

    Not much to report on my own running, so I won't bother.

  • He was a 42 year old spring chicken Dachs. What marathon you doing? overseas?

    'Nice' and 'Lovely' aren't too bad if you're married SG- but a dagger in the heart when you're young, free and single. I was generally a 'nice guy' but looking back gave out too emotion. Would have definitely played it cooler if I had my time over again. Indifference is key ;)

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Yes, nice doesn't get you far. Although i've found " fairly nice but a bit of an arse" isn't much better ;)

    Ok, on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being ridiculous, how's this look for a little northern trip...

    Wed 24 April - Man Utd v City
    Thur 25 April - some random po10 5k race i found round the river near Old Trafford
    Fri 26 April - Mid Cheshire 5k - fast
    Sat 27 April - find some random footy game in championship/league 1 - plenty on
    Sun 28 Man Utd v Chelsea

    Stevie G little tour taking in 2 races, and 2 big footy games?
    Or is 4 nights alone (bar roping in 2 pals for the United games I dare say) in the wilds of the north getting a bit madcap?
    Yes/ No - first to 1,000 votes wins it

    Lurkers get involved.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Good mini-break but you'd have to do a parkrun Saturday to make it worthwhile IMO SG :p 
    Take it the first 5K is the warm-up to remind the legs how to run fast after sitting in a car/standing at footy? 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good to see you posting again Dachs - need some laughs at the mo!

    Reg - missed you post earlier! put it done to jetlag - my son took a week to get back to normal after his trip back from Canada two weeks ago (but difficult to really tell as he is a teenager!)

    2 races in 2 days SG? Good heavens! Shame about all that footy nonsense getting in way :smile:

    An OCD busting 7.9 miles of mud and hills (for a change!) tonight. Despite a couple of moments of very brief but quite sharp pain, the knee was OK - weird (don't tell your workmate SG!). Oddly, all of my runs since Wokingham, with the notable exception of the VERY turgid ten on Sunday have come out faster paced than the general trend for those sort of routes before. Must be something positive to take from that :smile:
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Stevie G said:
     I remember a right oddball teacher ...

    He pronounced "unknown", not as "unn-nohne" like everyone else, but instead favoured "un-no-ern". you were.

    Oh yes, I only popped in to mention some guy who is always moaning about aching from gym work, chatting looudly earlier saying "oh it's running, running ruins your knees"
    On the first point, sounds like he was from Hull.

    On the second point I have dealt with this by citing a couple of studies that show cartilage and knee injuries in runners is lower than in the general population. I'm popular at parties as you might guess.

    As an addendum to the second point, runners are a tad whiny about their spells with injuries so your average non-runner would be forgiven for making such an association.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Re: Dachs,

    See any more names you recognised whilst you were doing that Ric?

      B) I predict a course record from you Dachs at worse.

    Promising sounding XC Jooligan.  How on earth do you get spotless XC toilets though?  Any toilets even vaguely in the vicinity of a race I've been to look like they've been visited by one of those shit-spraying hippos*

    *Battersea Park Track. I mean, it was halfway up the wall  :o

  • ioweriower ✭✭✭
    It’s a yes vote from me SG, sounds a right mad little caper! Agree with Jooligan though surely you can find a parkrun nearby to squeeze in there too? 

    Easy 5 yesterday in the wind and rain and similar conditions for tonight’s track sesh. Pyramid set of 400/800/1200/1600/1200/800/400 off 90 secs rest. Averaged about 1:25/lap throughout but slightly quicker on the way back down, 2:45 / 1:13 for the last 800 / 400 (last one fast one!). Pleased with that in those conditions!

    Bus - couldn’t have managed 7.9 - would have kept me awake all night! Good the pace is picking up though?
  • Iower - Forgot to say, I'm down for London and then Hull in the Autumn. If it's a roasting day at London I'm jogging round.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Me too Iower - . It was actually worse - 7.87, but so dark when I got back and peeing down with rain, so I didn't notice!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Ah, mileage details. Remember the days before Garmins? *

    I've got maps perforated with pin holes made with dividers as I worked out routes to as accurate as I could. But I didn't get too hung up about the fractions. 

    Subsequent excursions with the Garmin show how close I got, and why I don't get lost.

    Shorter distances could be awkward to get right. What I thought was a half mile long sector I used for speedwork was in fact 0.45 miles. That would make sense...considering.

    *Did SC say he didn't use one? If so, I'll give him the Forerunner 10 I have. I traded up to a FR30 when the FR10 ran out of life 18 miles into a 20. 

    Oh and I've joined another club. Blenheim AS. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    It is a game of 2 halfs with plotting future stuff I find.
    Come post run/afternoon/evenings, it's all about planning loads of stuff.
    Come the morn, it's less than being super up for the current day's run :)

    10miles this morno though, 7.00 dead on average, which is unusual. Started easy, 7.24 or so, and just let it happen. Different sort of route, out to Slough town centre, but then down a different bit of the jubilee river, into Datchet, pissed about a bit, then came back via the Upton Court and back familiar bit.

    Ric, that is certainly a familiar story. I used to think I was doing a 4miler, and it was actually a 3.5. And the "8" i'd generously estimated a couple of times was nearer 6!

    Thank goodness all the proper work of this thread was done to a watch.
    Although i'm a little dubious the "50mile" weeks i quoted as doing before it were actually 50 as per above examples.

    Blenheim Ric? As in near Oxford?

    Iower, that's a keen last 400, but by then I guess you're smoking, and delighted that the peak of the pyramid has been done.

    Run Britain handicap is still dropping. Apparently the March Ealing mile was "easier" than the Jan version (no idea why), so my 5.03 that took me to a 2.1, has now taken me to a 2.2
    Stupid system!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a nice little trip up north, SG. Bolton play Brentford on the Saturday...if there is a Bolton. parkrun is compulsory and I will take you to one of the quicker courses should you so wish. And on the Sunday there are two Great Run Local 5ks, one at 9 and one at 11. The 9 o'clock is on the Sale Sizzler course so worth a look. Don't know anything about the Thursday race. Will be flat though, I imagine.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    SG I share your lack of understanding of the intricacies of RB! They rated my Ealing Mile at vSSS -1.3 which is one of my best ever scores, yet the run does not even appear in my top 20 (all the top 15 of which are parkruns). How can that be? They also rated Saturday's Reading parkrun as really tough at an SSS of 3.4 so ranked my 19'01 there (which I was disappointed with) 2nd best in my list of runs. It was a bit muddy and slippy but is still a totally flat course so hard to see how it can be a 3.4. Can anyone (looking at you PMJ :) ) shed any light on the mysteries of how RB's algorithms work?      

    Like the sound of your Northern trip. If I could get tickets for either of the games I may join you at a game and/or a race/parkrun as could do with seeing some family up that way too. 

    Did my 1st of what will only be 2 HM distance prep runs for Fleet yesterday. 13.1 miles to Windsor Castle and back. Let the pace be whatever it came out without forcing it and was 4'36 per k on a pretty undulating route so 1'37 in total. Does that sound about the right pace to run the next one at? Will be looking to run about 4 mins per k at Fleet. 
  • Pete, I think if a lot of fast runners do Parkrun and don't do it all out. Then just working off a time comparison with their recent times at the same distance, RunBritain concludes the course must have been difficult, and gives it a higher rating. If you should happen to go all out in that scenario and beat runners with a better handicap, they try to adjust your handicap in a direction that takes it towards the better runners. That could account for why your parkruns are so highly rated.

    I've seen that work in reverse, where many people have obviously been training hard through the winter then hit their first race in the Spring and got a great pb. The race then gets rated downwards in difficulty compared to other courses that I would objectively consider slower.

    Also I could've imagined it, but thought I read somewhere that run directors can submit a difficulty rating with the results. Maybe Joe can comment on that for the race he managed at the weekend ?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Racing frequently is certainly heavily biased in keeping your handicap better.
    And like Mudster says, racing parkruns certainly helps.

    I just find it an oddity that runners who I've never lost to, have beaten say 20 times in a row can rock better handicaps. 

    Wow chaps, sat parkrun after a Friday eve race might be interesting, plus a Sunday turnout too.  4 turnouts in 4 days would utterly smash the thread for about 10 pages reporting back on that little lot :D:dizzy:

    Pete, hold that thought on the tickets... have offered the Sunday one to ALD (from early thread days) first dibs, but he's already talking a holiday that week, so it sounds 50-50, it could well be up for grabs to come in with me.
    I dare say that'd be the more fitting game for you, as the wed one would mean more days hanging about up there.

    Will think a bit further about the whole piece as a tour this week, but the Sunday game will be a certainty - even if it's just a single day job.
    Aley - will deffo be in touch if it's all a goer.

    I think the best bit of the scheme is the being fresh for the Friday evening race, rather than the previous sticking point of driving on the day... Although not quite as polished as the morning start of the Podium 5k.

  • I've seen that work in reverse, where many people have obviously been training hard through the winter then hit their first race in the Spring and got a great pb. The race then gets rated downwards in difficulty compared to other courses that I would objectively consider slower.

    Also I could've imagined it, but thought I read somewhere that run directors can submit a difficulty rating with the results. Maybe Joe can comment on that for the race he managed at the weekend ?
    I can confirm that all I submitted was the weather conditions on the day. But then, our race doesn't go on to Run Britain so I don't know if that would be a different process.

    Agree with the top comment as well. I thought my handicap might go up after Wokingham but that's made me realise why that might not have been the case!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    They clearly hadn't factored some clown obliviously wandering behind the blind bend bush turn 10metres into the race, just as the whole field was storming round,  into their race ranking.

    That didn't help!
    Pete was alright, as he had us to take that hit :D

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Blenheim Ric? As in near Oxford?

    Actually Harefield SG.  :/

    12 miles for me this morning. Around 8:15 average pace. Not bad considering 2/3's was off road involving much mud.

  • Ah Good old Harefield - I used to work for the Royal Brompton & Harefield so know the route from there to Chelsea like the back of my hand.

    Yes, don't use Garmins or anything, last time I needed something measured I got a girl I know on twitter to go to Regents Pk and measure the rep out for me ;)

    Nice possible beano SG - My mate is from Burnley so he's always threatening to go up to do the Podium at some point.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    How the heck hasn't he already done it, living right in the town it's raced in!?  :s

    That makes more sense Ric!

    Bet the mud wasn't like the time I ridiculously ran the Marlow thames path in road shoes on a massively wet and muddy day.

    Emerged back into Marlow later on, having taken a few full on spills, utterly caked in all sorts of filth.
    Must have looked an absolute nutjob (more than normal)
  • ioweriower ✭✭✭

    ...last time I needed something measured I got a girl I know...

    Wondered where that was going then!  :D 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I've been RO/RD for our club's annual 10K since 2015.
    It is a fully licensed, measured course on RB/Po10 & when I submit the results there is nothing more than weather to report.
    Tim Grose who wrote the RB handicap algorithm says that it is meant to take in to account people not giving races full beans however it still clearly favours parkruns. Wokingham is such a strong field that whilst last year's PB there was quicker than a recent parkrun that the latter took it down a notch but it was unaffected by Wokey. My track races have rarely done anything for me either as the standard is always so much higher. XC is a mixed affair - I've done well sometimes when I've raced well & where the course has been declared as significantly longer than it turns out to be other times it's looked a shocker even though I ran well.
    That's a good HC SG. Best I've managed was 2.9 Jan 17 & again in Jan 18 - currently at 4.4 & rising :/
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    When po10 are so fussy that races have to be licensed and uka how do parkruns, the most casual of the racing stable even get on there, let alone affect handicaps?

    I've had that handicap down to 0?8 and 0.9 i think.
    Not too long ago, as well as the 2012-13 power mode.

    Can't really moan when all ive done that counts in about 5months is two ealing miles and an underwhelming cp 10miler (xc needs a distance to count)

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    I knew about the general bias of the RB Handicap system towards parkruns and against races on flat courses that are often targeted by many fast guys. I don't really see how an algorithm can allow for who is running flat out and who is taking it easy, so suspect there is not much even a great mathematician/programmer can do about that.

    What I really don't follow is their vSSS rating and how that relates to how your run is assessed. Surely if you get a very low vSSS in comparison to all your other ones it is a good run and should be near the top of your list. Didn't work like that with me for Ealing Mile. I also don't see how their systems can give a particular parkrun such a varied rating week in week out as most of the runners are regulars, unless course conditions changed massively in that week or you get a local effect like loads of top runners taking it easy at Reading as Wokey half is the next day.

    I won't complain overall as I definitely benefit from the parkrun effect and my 2.7 h/c is a lot better than most runners my actual standard ( :) ),which is probably pretty similar to your standard Jooligan based on a quick perusal of Po10. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    I guess at the end of the day we all know what our best performances are.

    And the rest is banter and discussion.

    I mean, how can you really compare what is better from say my 9.28 680ft murder mile, 5.00 short trained form ealing mile,5.03 recent Ealing mile, 4.56 still day gosport 2017mile, 5.11 gosport into a heavy wind mile 2018 or 4.57 battersea mile relay leg in quality field.

    All that imm fairly sure to say, is that ive a chance of beating these times as i never did miles before about 34-35!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    It's been a while since we've had this exact conversation about RB rankings :D . At the risk of repeating myself, my run today was shite. Hoping for something original soon.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Apart from increasingly intricate race/footy mini tours, there is no fresh running chat reg.
    It's just the names on the thread change 😘😄😁😃🌷💧
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    They're still sorting the Newport results Muddy. I'm afraid you've been demoted to 9th.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Just to follow up on the Silverstone 10k - and the year in year out desire to get back there only to be put off by it falling into a too stacked week..blah blah

    Reading their fb page, it seems they can't get the May date due to some mainto work, so it's most likely shunted to September.

    A fast 10k that time of year without as much competition race wise sounds good. Midweek makes it fairly unique too.

    I always aimed to do the Silverstone half again, and it looks like that won't ever happen again with the Big Half gubb, so have to get one of the 10ks in while they exist!
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