P&D Spring Marathon 2019



  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    SQ I can't believe the European Commission are going to change DST based on the results of this consultation. A tiny proportion (see below) of people responded to it & it's always those who are unhappy with the status quo who shout loudest. I'm amazed by how many people find it worth complaining about. I'm looking forward to longer evenings from next week but wouldn't be happy about it staying dark til half 8 in December.

















    Czech Republic






































    United Kingdom


  • runspoonrunrunspoonrun ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019

    Another big intervals session TR, great work.

    Macca, 6:25/mi sounds sensible, but I wouldn’t rule out being able to get down to 6:17/mi given you seem to perform better as the distance increases. See how you feel on the day, and what the conditions are like. I can attest to Joe’s excellent support, his positivity helped me through a rough patch towards the end of Brighton a few years ago. Definitely worth some time ;) 

    Ambitious as ever with your goals Joe:D

    Glad the calf seems ok HPR.

    Thanks for the advice Millsy.

    Take it easy Jools.

    Sounds like a fun first run with your daughter NE.

    Nice intervals/MLR combo SQ. Hadn’t seen that summer time news, objectively I think it makes sense, but it would make for a more grim winter of running.

    Solid MLR Hamo.

    Great meeting/S&C combo NE

    I’ve never really tried overdressing, but certainly think it can help. I see on Strava Paul Martelletti is a big fan of it. I did try the sauna routine SQ mentions before Manchester last year. Because the forecast was ok, I didn’t commit to it as much as I could have, but definitely will next time. Hot baths can potentially trigger the same adaptations too: https://www.outsideonline.com/2379891/post-workout-hot-tub-soak-might-boost-performance

    Regarding special vests NE, I have the Tracksmith Strata top, which is like a high-tech Rab C Nesbitt vest. It definitely aids airflow and helps keep you a bit cooler. Doesn’t get weighed down with sweat as much either. I don’t really get wearing an extra top in hot weather, any sweat-wicking advantage must surely be cancelled out by the extra insulation?

    Another seven miles yesterday, my ITB was much happier, basically feeling fine. Just did a recovery five this morning, no point rushing back too aggressively. It’s frustrating as the mornings have been lovely this week, wish I could be out there longer! 

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Just quickly dropping in, squeezed for time.

    I'm not one for overdressing, even though I accept it could help. I really don't enjoy wearing more than I need to running, in fact I've just ordered another pair of 2" split shorts because I've found myself moving away from using my 5" shorts. I don't seem to struggle too much in the heat either.

    Spoon - hope you get on top of those niggles.

    Calves are a still a bit sore but I've got out for a few decent sessions. 7.5 mile tempo on Monday, then 10x 1km yesterday morning and a pretty gentle fartlek in the evening. Just an easy recovery today.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    There was a bloke running London last year - topless. Weirdly, he got offered more ice by the crowds than anyone else. 
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    HPR...i'm always tempted to roll the dice, but its a good idea to know that you aren't going to set out so fast as you cant reign it in a bit and still run strong. Interesting to note what TR says about easy conversions maths wise every 3 miles, certainly would keep you on track, and something to consider.

    NE...fair play to ya, definitely my kind of meeting.

    Spoons...glad to see that your ITB is starting to play ball, hopefully it continues.

    HA...Very decent sessions, esp with sore calves.

    SQ...cheers for that, esp the sauna info, very good to know. And cheers spoons, a hot bath is certainly a good back up too. Definitely will consider getting down to the local pool and using their sauna, and might try overdressing to see how i get on...id be a bit like HA77, i wouldn't normally be one for running in more than is needed. Though anything to stop a major fall apart in London like last year is certainly worth considering.

    There's talk here, of the Republic not changing their clocks (DST) in line with the EU, but Northern Ireland keeping the status quo and changing. So literally half an hour down the road from me could be an hour ahead/behind, madness. There is a half marathon that runs from Newry in the North, across the border (2 or 3 times) to finish in Dundalk in the South, so i think I'm gonna to target it for my half pb next year and go for a sub 20 min half (depending on time of year of course) :D :D all very confusing, and id be of the attitude of its not broke don't fix it, but i dunno.

    Easy 7 with some strides in glorious sunshine for me this morning, cannot complain about that at all.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    HA: I'm a fan of short shorts as well HA. Think mine might be 3" - was actually just on eBay buying some new ones today
    Spoons: glad the ITB is behaving
    SQ: being on the South Coast I'm the one to benefit the most from this. My family in Northern Ireland are not so keen though!
    George: hope the hammy improves. Good luck with the stretching/rolling
    NE: Jim Walmsley cuts holes in his vest to assist with cooling (he's a fan of the short shorts as well, even at 100 mile distances!)

    Did 5x1km reps at Parliament Hill track yesterday. Nice location for them although £4 is a bit steep for a 30min session! Reps were avg 3:45/km - really pleased with that as those are the first reps I've done in months
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Spoons...  researching the Tracksmith Strata vest... looks interesting - perhaps a little more practical than FBT's kind suggestion.   Not sure about cutting up other technical teeshirts AWC... I had wondered about that - but even then, I'd want the right 'cooling' teeshirt to start with... and think I might just as well go for a vest  

    Finding it on sale in the UK is not straight forward though.  Did you buy from USA or did you find it more locally?  $70 +P&P from USA is probably too steep for a few grams of vest  but I'd like to see what other options there are.

    Has anyone got any other recommendations / comments on vests for hot marathons?
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    NE: the Salomon S/Lab technical t-shirts are amazing quality in terms of keeping you cool and dry. They are very expensive though and designed for trail but they work fine on the road!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Solid stats, Jools!

    spoons - agreed, I am being entirely selfish. Please no pain today. More cross-training later?

    HA I am a massive fan of the split shorts. So comfy and airy. Finding some with little gel/dextrose pouches is always a pain, although spoons did recommend a Tracksmith pair. Good workouts from you.

    Nice reps, AWC. The Jim Walmsley vest reminds me about seeing a few in London last year where people had used hole punchers to perforate their vests. Genuinely good idea!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Ron Hill was a big fan of short shorts & a string vest for cooling.
    He also favoured a knotted handkerchief on the head & sponges for cooling. He also ran barefoot a lot including cinder track 10M races & XC if it wasn't too slippery.

  • SQ - I can vouch for running London topless being fun. But it's only acceptable if part of a world record attempt. I'm seeing people at the moment running topless around Richmond Park and it's like 6 degrees. I barely agree with it when it's proper roasting, let along in these temps. Just get a decent vest lads.

    Tempted to do some overdressed training myself in the lead up to London, can't see why it would hurt. Obviously the heat doesn't affect HA because he's an aussie w*nker who loves a bit of warmer temperature. Life's unfair. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Hey, I resemble that!!!

    Next think you know you whinging poms will be unable to run due to too may leaves on the road.

    SQ - Depending on the forecast I was going to take to my vest with a hole punch. I have my own patented gel holder that I use in races anyway, so no need for pockets. I can understand as a diabetic you'd have a need to carry more than me though.
  • NE - where did you get that picture of me!!!

    HA - its not too many leaves - its the wrong sort of leaves...

  • George - Hope the hamstring eases up, maybe worth taking it easy until Manchester now

    NE - I WFH once or twice a week and have never considered S&C when on conference calls. Something to keep in mind in future.

    SQ - As an evening runner I’d welcome lighter evenings all year round!

    Spoons - Good to see you seem to be on the mend. Sensible to build into it steadily after the setbacks in quick succession.

    Hamo - I’m not sure on your half logic  :D But I work with people based in the US and for the first week when they moved their clocks and we didn’t it was confusing with recurring meetings which moved if they were sent by someone in the US

    AWC - Nice work on the reps. I do all my reps on the pavement as I resent paying money to use a track, I’m still a tight Yorkshireman at heart.

    HA - I thought sandpaper would be the implement of choice for an Aussie to customise their vest, not a hole punch 

    I hate running in hot weather, luckily the forecast for Manchester is currently about 8 degrees. I suppose there has to be an upside to having to go to Manchester...

    I’ve always got on with UA running T-shirts,  so found a vest on Amazon for VLM16 which I’ve worn for races since. I was actually looking for one incorporating the Yorkshire rose recently, which I could find in a cycling top but not a running vest for some reason. Maybe for the best, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to purposely try and incite the crowd during a race.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Touche HPR. No come back from that.

    FBT - the first time I had a train delayed because of leaves on the track I thought the conductor was having a laugh. Still can't quite believe it.
  • NE - where did you get that picture of me!!!

    HA - its not too many leaves - its the wrong sort of leaves...

    Nothing's private when you do public races  -  

  • Goes off to check the Guinness World Record for fastest Rab marathon......

    AWC -speedy intervals, better value if you ran them slower.

    Hope the calves and hammies behave themselves HA and George.

    NE - hopefully the night run will be one of those moments your daughter remembers in years to come, good use of the conference call.

    HPR - apologies for the Lancs/York’s stereotyping, I did a mental check before posting and recalled most are South based but I forgot you didn’t have a London accent.

    Thanks for the advice all (boldly running to feel) absorbed and will update the list shortly.

    Last proper speedwork today, 3x1 mile, it felt like a perfect summers day.  The irony being I’ve a 3 or 4 hr window and no long MLR to fill it, I had to reign it in at 12m (instead of 9), still, spending the balance in the pub makes up for it.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Macca - im with you on it being a shame the weather is good and the training is light.

    Maybe i should punch some holes in my Brighton T shirt and longish shorts.

    9m inc 5 av 6.45 today. Easier with no weds evening mlr. 17 or 18m saturday and then some more 3 min reps weds, its nearly all done now.
  • Macca - can't wait to have a front row seat! Very excited. 

    Pretty big session tonight in the end. 3 x 3 miles @ MP. Ran to effort/HR and miles came in at under 6mm (5:58, 5:56, 5:57) - pleased with that on heavy legs. 

    WU and CD made it 16 miles for the evening. Do I have to admit that I'm training for a marathon soon?
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    HPR: I’m a tight accountant but as I was up in London for the day I thought I’d treat myself as a one off :)
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Loving the string vest looks, Jooligan. I can remember seeing quite a few kids in New Zealand doing cross country barefoot. I think it was an affordability thing for them, but they seemed to do very well without them.

    Ah yes,  the patented HA gel-palm carrier. I think we need a refresher photo.

    HPE 8C at Manchester is my kind of racing weather. Perfect.

    Get the short shorts out for the race, TR!

    Great session, Joe. Time to mentally commit – you did so physically a long time ago.

    6M recovery with strides this morning. Feeling pretty wooden, but hoping that the two easier days will leave me a little fresher for tomorrow.

  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Macca: nice reps.Always feels weird when you've got time to fill as the runs are getting shorter.
    SQ: a few easier days leave me feeling a bit leggy but normally its just a feeling rather than the reality!
    Joe: great session on heavy legs
    10 mile extended run commute this morning throwing in a few extra hills.
    Got my final MP session on Sunday - strangely looking forward to it, 20mi [email protected]
    Will be interesting to see what pace I can comfortably run those 14mi at. Will set my target pace for Shakespeare off that run.
  • Joe - great session, re marathon training, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

    SQ - after the HM a few easier days will sort you out.

    1st anxiety dream last night and I never remember dreams.  I forgot to hand my coat in at bag drop off and had to consider running in it. I don’t know what happened after that but I blame it on this talk of overdressing😀

    Continuing the theme of marginal gains, does anyone take beet shots ? I think it’s been discussed before but I wonder if anyone is persuaded through experience in either direction?
  • Agreed on the short-shorts HA

    Typical runner Hamo, always thinking how something might impact race times :D

    Rupp did something similar at the Olympics AWC, surprised Nike haven’t commercialised it to be honest. That’s still cheaper than my local track, and Parliament Hill is in much better condition. Good luck for the MP session, not sure I’ve ever looked forward to one of those!?

    NE no unfortunately Tracksmith stuff isn’t easy to get hold of over here. Mr Porter stock a limited range. I purchased directly from them. 

    Nice reps Macca. I always feel a little lost when I’ve been in heavy training and then suddenly have lots of extra time.

    Great session Joe, think it’s time to give in and accept the inevitable! 

    Sure the legs will wake up tomorrow SQ.

    I use beet shots Macca. There’s plenty of pretty good evidence behind it (https://www.outsideonline.com/2387931/beet-juice-health-benefits-study), unlike many of these things. And there needs to be for me to drink it, as it tastes how I imagine the devil’s semen would. Truly disgusting. For most races I take two the night before, and two around 2 hours before, usually with breakfast. For Manchester I had one a day for the week leading up, then the usual two the night before, two on the day.

    You have to be careful not to brush your teeth or use mouthwash close to when you take them, as the bacteria in the mouth is important apparently. It’s also not something you should try out first on race day, as it can have, er, explosive effects on some people. Luckily I seem to stomach them ok, once I’ve got over the gagging when I drink them. :D 

    Back out on the canal today. Annoyingly after a week of lovely mornings, it was very foggy. I felt really good for most of it, although the ITB started to complain a little towards the end so stopped at nine miles to be safe. Definitely feel like it’s slowly improving though, just need to be patient, much as I wish I could be banging out the miles. The pace/HR was better than it has been, so that’s positive.

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Funny you mention it Macca. I was just thinking about beet shots. I took a couple before Abingdon a couple of years back. Didn't go well but I'm pretty sure it was unrelated to the beet shots. Supposedly there is evidence for them.

    20miler done this morning. Somewhat hilly and lots off-road. Legs still had the big Wednesday in them but pace was ok, edging down close to MP + 10% by the end.
  • Thanks for the link and extra info RSR.  I’ll test them this weekend.  I’ve not seen anything debunking their effect and even if it was only a placebo effect that’s still got to be worth something.

    Good to read the ITB is improving and decent LR HA.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Good luck with the MP, AWC. Reckon you could be in with a good placing at Shakespeare.

    Haha – the first anxiety dream of the thread. That’s a sign the training has gone well I reckon, Macca.

    Sensible spoons. Good progress. Looking at the sun now, you were certainly unlucky to be running in that fog. I tried the Beet It shots before Wokingham and the FoD halves. Had no adverse affect and if there’s scientific plausibility that’s good enough for me. Personally, I don’t mind the taste. There are very sweet as beetroot is such a sugary vegetable. A couple of warnings: avoid swilling like a fine wine – your teeth will stain in the short term; and having had two last week, I thought I was pissing blood after the race – urine an absolutely shocking colour! Interesting side note about the teeth cleaning, will take careful note of that.

    Well done on the big runs, HA.

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Having just said that I don't mind the taste, then re read spoons' description has left me somewhat concerned.
  • Good news on the ITB spoons, that's what we like to hear.

    Decent longer one HA. Don't think there's any danger of us running side by side this year in London, as even though I'll set off like a lunatic, I'm sure you'll do the same. My prediction: JS first mile - 5:48. HA first mile - 5:29. 

    Hope the MP run goes well AWC.

    You won't catch me having any beet shots, sounds too risky with my gut. 

    Felt surprisingly good on 8 mile recovery this morning. 
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