P&D Spring Marathon 2019

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  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Hammo - another great race on tired legs, well done. Are you shooting for sub 2:40 now? Certainly on the cards. I think when you get to around that pace it's best to just aim for 6min/mile to make the maths easier.

    Jools - Nice pic. Looks like a tough one. Hydrating with apple juice gone off, served by the pint, good plan.

    SQ - Nice work on the PR and the medal in the post.

    Some great mileage going around. Just 250 miles for the month for me. Agree with TR about avoiding overreaching at the moment. Lots of people have built some great fitness and there are only marginal gains to be had by doing another couple of monster weeks, while the risk of overdoing it is significant.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Good luck with the 50, AWC. With Shakespeare in mind, how hard will you push it? Not that I imagine 50 miles is ever a stroll in the park.

    Great photo, Jooligan. What a beautiful place. Brighton will feel different, although I suspect you won't be short of 'apple juice' providers post race. 

    Really sorry to hear about your Dad, TR. Although I hope the operation helps him. Good to keep the running going for a bit of thinking space during tough times.

    I’m listening, HA. I definitely over did it before Abo with a monster session 14 days before then a below-par (unsurprisingly) final session 10 days out.

    12M with 6 x 1200m ish today. Don’t trust the watch under the trees, so an optimistic guess on paces would be about 5:55 – 6:05. Reasonable, and similar to HA’s reps at half marathon pace. Felt hard work and that’s all that really counts. Certainly, the legs didn’t have much left for the cool down. MLR tomorrow which I think on the back of this morning's intervals is solid marathon training.


  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    SQ - Solid reps there.
    Jools - My quads hurt just looking at that climb! Nice rehydrating though!
    Some great monthly totals on here, looking good for marathon season I think!
    10 miles with 22 mins (6:23 min/mile) and 18 mins (6:34 min/mile) today. First section felt controlled then last 10 minutes of second section I noticed a slow down and started to feel tougher, session done.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    That’s the toughest session in the plan, if I remember rightly, Steve. Good work. 
  • runspoonrunrunspoonrun ✭✭✭

    Lots of action since my last post. Great running all around, and I have to admit I’m pretty jealous of those racking up high mileage and putting in those final marathon sessions. 

    Sorry to hear about your dad TR, hope he’s ok. 

    Congrats on the 2nd place Joe

    Another amazing race after a long run Hamo, incredible. Have agree that it suggests something closer to 2:40 than 2:45.

    Great parkrun, and a very impressive set of stats from your training block Macca.

    Congrats on the medal SQ. Solid reps, good attitude regarding the pace.

    Great photo Jooligan.

    Nice session Steve.

    Things are slowly improving for me. After a rest day Saturday, I did 11 miles along the canal on Sunday. Still a bit of discomfort at the top of the ITB, but I’m getting further each time before it starts. Recovery with SQ yesterday, finally checking out the trail that follows the River Teme, at SQ’s suggestion. It’s silly I’ve not explored it before, but I’m a creature of habit! Then a classic canal 10 this morning. Really pleased that I only had a very slight nagging ache by the end. Seems like all the exercises are slowly working (thanks to those that suggested the ITB rehab routine), just need to stay patient…

  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited April 2
    SQ: MLR after those reps certainly is solid! I'd say I'll go 90% on Saturday. I know I can recover pretty quickly from the distance, and this race and Shakespeare are B races before the big on on the 8th June which is the South Downs Way 100 which is my A race for the year.
    Spoons: slow progress is frustrating but at least you know you are going in the right direction
    Steve: super session - such a tough one to execute properly and looks like you nailed it.
    288 miles in March which is my highest ever. Will definitely start cutting down now over the next 4 weeks. Having a rest day today and this week will just be short recoveries.
  • george_george_ ✭✭✭
    Hamo-fantastic run, again. 2:40 is certainly on 

    Macca and AWC-Huge mileage. I know it'll come off in a few weeks 

    Joe-Ditto. I think we all know you're going for a PB!

    Jools-Love the photo. That's one way to taper I guess...

    TR-Sounds like your Dad is on the mend now. Wish him all the best 

    HA-Just the 250 miles then! I am very much applying the less is more approach at this stage

    Steve-Huge 22 mile session. Puts you in a really good place 

    Spoons-Slowly but surely it sounds like you're getting there 

    Tonight's session will be 10x 400m just to remind myself I can run quick. This lunchtime will be foamrolling the hell out of my left glute which is grumbling as ever. I even bought one of those spiky massage balls which got a good workout in front of the TV last night  
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited April 2
    SQ - nice one on the reps. I agree on the running helping mentally, although mentally ive been more tired at times. It affected me at fleet as some of the news was very new and i was in two minds as to run or not.

    Tough session there stevemac

    Spoons - good news on the continued recovery.

    My dad is doing ok, he hsd a set back with a lung infection, but hopefully he will learn to follow a regime which makes the surgery worthwhile going through.

    5m easy today, last session of 3min reps tomorrow. Ironic that its going to be very cold first thing as i lost a couple of these sessions to ice earlier in year.
  • Joe Blogs-BRJoe Blogs-BR ✭✭✭
    Glad to hear things are improving Spoons - like you say, just stay patient!

    Great sessions Steve and SQ.

    Eventful few days for me then. Did my normal 2 x recovery runs on Monday, but wasn't quite feeling myself. Got in Monday night, knew something was up as I wasn't eating (very unlike me), and suddenly started feeling really nauseous. 

    Got up to go to the bathroom, but never made it. Passed out in the hallway, landed in a heap on top of Katie's bike. Came to with her understandably very worried, whilst I didn't have a clue where I was. I then had some pretty full on fever symptoms, shivering so much that it actually hurt my bones. 

    Strangely, woke up the following morning feeling not too bad. Complete day off yesterday, and today I'm still not quite right today, which is frustrating. Able to move about/eat etc. but just feeling out of sorts.

    As you can imagine, struggling to deal with it, with VLM just around the corner. Someone tell me something rational like a couple of days off isn't going to hurt my chances! How would you guys structure it, assuming I have 2/3 days off and that leaves me with just over 3 weeks to go? 
  • george_george_ ✭✭✭
    Christ Joe, look after yourself!

    Weirdly, I've had something similar before where I struggled to stay conscious on the tube home, got to bed, passed out before waking up in the middle of the night and sweating profusely. 

    Woke up at 8am and felt right as rain. Got showered and went to work I think. 

    As long as it's not coupled with vomiting, I think you should be ok to run again in the next day or two, but this isn't official medical advice! A few days off shouldn't harm you for London. 

    My 800s went pretty well last night, averaging 81s. Anther rest day today to come up with phantom muscle injuries  
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Joe - The important thing is your health, so rest up and recover. You are getting to the point now, where any training will only have minimal fitness gains. Take it easy and recover well.
    TR - Glad your Dad is OK.
    George - 22 minutes not miles, but thanks!
    SQ - Just got a 40 minute session with no rest in a couple of weeks!
    AWC - Huge mileage....sets you up nicely for the 50 miler and the marathon.
    Spoons - Glad things are getting easier, slow and steady and you'll be back to where you were in no time.
    7 miles with strides today, nice and easy pace, pretty cold out this morning though!
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    edited April 3
    Joe - look after yourself. I would be sticking to easy running only this week. You've been pumping out 100 mile weeks, a few days enforced rest is probably a good thing after you scrapped your recovery week last week. With your fitness as it is at the moment the only way you'll get to the start line not in PB shape is by overtraining. The best thing for your fitness at the moment is to make sure you recover properly before trying to push yourself again. Another solid week next week if you feel good but don't even think about shortening your 2 week taper.

    Steady 12 miles for me this morning. No double session today.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭


    Eventful few days for me then. Did my normal 2 x recovery runs on Monday, but wasn't quite feeling myself. Got in Monday night, knew something was up as I wasn't eating (very unlike me), and suddenly started feeling really nauseous. 

    Got up to go to the bathroom, but never made it. Passed out in the hallway, landed in a heap on top of Katie's bike. Came to with her understandably very worried, whilst I didn't have a clue where I was. I
    Christ I'm not surprised she was worried Joe, is her bike ok?
  • MaccatheknaccaMaccatheknacca ✭✭✭
    edited April 3
    Sorry to read that Joe, as others say health first, you’ve got loads of decent VLMs ahead of you. Hope you feel better for a few days rest.  You’re probably in PB shape anyway so it’s a case of ticking over when you feel recovered.

    Jools - great pic, I had some bad “apple juice” once, haven’t been able to touch the stuff since😉

    Steve - tough LT session there, well done (even if it wasn’t 22 miles).

    George - braver than me doing the 10x400, rest up now.

    Good to read things are improving RSR, as you say, patience is the key.

    SQ - well done on the medal and the 6x1200s, I much prefer the 5x600s.

    Reg 😂

    AWC - good luck this weekend, If I wasn’t otherwise preoccupied I’d be very jealous.

    The classic dress rehearsal today for me.  I took delivery of some proper beer it shots and they taste ok.  With a bit of imagination they could almost be a Bloody Mary.  Shod in Nike’s finest everything went well (touch wood).

    6,5,4 then 26.2
  • NorthEnderNorthEnder ✭✭✭

    I took delivery of some proper beer it shots and they taste ok.  



    Beer it shots...   that sounds more like it Macca!
  • For no other reason than to focus minds,

    Manchester 7/4
    HPR 18wk 70-85mpw A: Sub 3 B:3:05
    George 18wk 55-70mpw A*-sub 3 A-sub 3:05 B-sub 3:10 C-sub 3:24 (PB) 
    Macca 18wk P&D 70-85 2:44

    Brighton 14/4
    Jooligan 15weeks P&D based 55-70mpw 2:59
    FBT sub 3:10
    TR 2:5x

    Shakespeare (Stratford) 28/4
    AWC – P&D 12 week up to 85mi/wk - sub 3:10

    London 28/4
    HA77 - DIY plan ~ 100km/week - 2:30
    RunSpoonRun - P&D/NAZ/BAC hybrid - sub-2:45
    Reg P&L 31-47mpw to Wokey followed with custom marathon plan sub 2:45
    Muddy - P&D 12 week inspired but without the hard stuff - up to 60 mpw - sub 2.50
    Sorequads - P&D 18 weeks 70-85M, sub 2:50 (fifth attempt!)
    Ramjet 18wk 55-70mpw 2:5x
    Just Coop Going - DIY plan - survive
    Macca backup/RR
    Joe Blogs - DIY tri-plan - sub 4.
    Hamo - P&D 18 weeks 70-85M - sub 2.45 

    Millsy - 9wk 55-70 2:53

    Southampton 5/5
    FBT ???

    Newport 5/5
    Northender 15wk P&D up to 55 3:20 (GFA)

    Edinburgh 26/5
    Madbee 18wk P&D 55mpw 3:30
    SteveMac 12wk P&L HM up to 55mpw tbc
  • .....and to add race no


    Manchester 7/4
    HPR 18wk 70-85mpw A: Sub 3 B:3:05
    George 18wk 55-70mpw A*-sub 3 A-sub 3:05 B-sub 3:10 C-sub 3:24 (PB) 
    Macca 18wk P&D 70-85 2:44 - 1285

    Brighton 14/4
    Jooligan 15weeks P&D based 55-70mpw 2:59
    FBT sub 3:10
    TR 2:5x

    Shakespeare (Stratford) 28/4
    AWC – P&D 12 week up to 85mi/wk - sub 3:10

    London 28/4
    HA77 - DIY plan ~ 100km/week - 2:30
    RunSpoonRun - P&D/NAZ/BAC hybrid - sub-2:45
    Reg P&L 31-47mpw to Wokey followed with custom marathon plan sub 2:45
    Muddy - P&D 12 week inspired but without the hard stuff - up to 60 mpw - sub 2.50
    Sorequads - P&D 18 weeks 70-85M, sub 2:50 (fifth attempt!)
    Ramjet 18wk 55-70mpw 2:5x
    Just Coop Going - DIY plan - survive
    Macca backup/RR
    Joe Blogs - DIY tri-plan - sub 4.
    Hamo - P&D 18 weeks 70-85M - sub 2.45 

    Millsy - 9wk 55-70 2:53

    Southampton 5/5
    FBT ???

    Newport 5/5
    Northender 15wk P&D up to 55 3:20 (GFA)

    Edinburgh 26/5
    Madbee 18wk P&D 55mpw 3:30
    SteveMac 12wk P&L HM up to 55mpw tbc
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited April 3
    Joe - hopefully jusr a bug, rest up and relax. Could stop you doing a silly big week and hurting yourself.

    7m inc 8x3min for me, bit of a shock in minus temps!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Joe: sounds nasty & definitely worth a couple of days off. You've been hammering the training since well before Wokey & you're already in fantastic shape so a few days off now will do you no harm at all. Hopefully just a virus that clears off quick as it came.
    Good honest target there Macca & no messing around with any fall back positions either so guess you're going all in :) 
    Solid stuff as ever TR.
    Had another day off yesterday as the poor weather, changed clocks & Saturday's quad decimating excursion combined to make it seem like the best option so that was 3 days without a run & 2 without doing owt!
    Cycled in to work then ran 10.5M back. Managed to miss the wet weather too. Very ploddy & HR was very high for the effort but it's done now. That'll be my last double digit run before Brighton I reckon.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    Love the target Macca! Certainly focuses the mind

    Ive not Run the last couple of days - been nursing a cold and the family are all down with it. Don’t think it’s too serious so hopefully cleared up by the weekend. 
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Some very good training going on over the last few days, too much to mention separately, so ill just settle for a well done all, and hope that is ok.

    Sorry to hear that Joe, as everyone has said, rest up, your health is the most important thing. Fingers crossed its just a virus and clears off as quickly as it came.

    I'm loving the new target Macca, fair play to you...i reckon you'll smash it.


    I ran 12 with 6x1200 intervals on Tuesday morning, happy enough with an average pace of 5.30 over the 6 efforts, ranging from 5.24 - 5.36, considering how fatigued the legs felt after Sundays 10k. Followed this up with re hydrating Jools style, with more than a few bad apple juices, and white grape juice that seemed to have went off as well, as me and the Missus were away for the night to a concert. ;) :D Yesterdays planned 8 miler had to wait until the afternoon, before i felt sober and human enough to attempt it, but surprised to see a run where i felt less than 100% come out with a 6.57 average pace. 15m MLR this morning was grand, to be followed up with a easy 4 miler after work, then its onto the last big weekend of the training, before taper time...its came around quickly.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Hamo - Nice intervals, and apple/grape juice combo!
    Macca - Nice target and dress rehersal! All the best for Sunday!
    Reg - :D
    AWC - Get well soon.
    Out the door at 4:20 in -2c this morning for a 13 miler, felt good.
  • Fat Boy TrimFat Boy Trim ✭✭✭

    Its all been going on here - taken time to catch up...

    Hope you are feeling better Joe, sounds like you are bouncing back quick. - Also good to hear it's not only me that looks like a rabbit to the dogs. Re the owners - its never the dogs fault!

    Jools - surprised you were not roped together going up that mountain. Id have needed oxygen!

    Anyone know what the optimal time is for haircuts before a marathon?

  • runspoonrunrunspoonrun ✭✭✭
    edited April 4

    Good luck for Saturday AWC.

    Hope the left glute behaves George. Great 800s.

    Glad your dad is doing ok TR.

    Take it easy Joe. You’re in great form so take confidence from your amazing results lately. As HA says, easy this week, push a bit next week if you’re feeling ok, and then don’t be tempted to shortchange the taper due to this week. 

    Great target Macca, good to see. Best of luck for Sunday, hope it all goes to plan. Can’t believe it’s nearly a year since I ran it. If I can offer one bit of advice, make sure you have at least 7 seconds cushion in the final mile… :D

    Good luck HPR and George too.

    Good to see everyone taking their health seriously with all this fruit juice consumption Hamo ;) Impressive pace given the night before!

    I can kind of see why people think runners are mad when -2º weather at 4:20am is described as feeling good Steve!

    My glute and ITB felt a little niggly yesterday despite only doing a five mile recovery run, which was a little annoying. I was a bit unsure what to do today, but the glute settled quickly when I started running and ITB felt fine. I stuck to the river loops in case I needed to bail, as I didn’t fancy walking miles along the canal in freezing rain. Thankfully though managed the full ten with the ITB feeling the best it has yet at the end of a run. 

  • First check in for a week, sorry for missing most of the good training and racing which has been going on. But I’m too busy sticking my face into all the carbs.

    Joe - Rest up, as has been said by others you’re already in great shape. Just need to carry that to the start line now.

    TR - Sorry to hear about your dad. I hope everything is going as well for him as it can.

    Macca - I’m on the beet it shots as well, unfortunately I find them truly revolting. I’ve had to resort to downing them while pinching my nose and chasing them down with cordial. I’m not sure if the science is conclusive enough to justify going through that!

    After my run on Monday, my calf was really sore. It’s the same pain I had a couple of weeks ago but the other leg. Tuesday and Wednesday I stuck to the turbo, going to try a run this evening once I’m back in Yorkshire. The injury in the other leg went away in a couple of days, so hopefully it’s no big deal.

    Question to the group on carb loading. Reading P&D and it says 70-80% of your calories should be carbs, other sources state a target grams per pound of body weight. Pretty much all sources seem to agree I shouldn’t be eating an excess of calories, just change the macro split. My problem is I have a sedentary job, so I’m only really burning calories when I’m running, which has decreased massively in taper and with the leg issue. The only way I can get anywhere near 4g at 168lbs is with a big calorie surplus unless I can get my hands on some 100% carbohydrates. What would people recommend, go for 70%+ and keep net calories about 0? Or go for a surplus of calories and try to get as close to the 4g number as possible?
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    HPR - I think carb-loading is a pretty inexact science. I eat a normal diet up to Thurday night, eating a bit less than when in full training, then eat low fibre, mostly carbs on Friday, but not in excess, then only carbs with a big calorie excess on Saturday (usually cook up 1kg of white rice). Race day breakfast is usually somewhat smaller than usual but I load it with sugar and/or honey. I don't bother calculating g carbs per kg body wt.

    Hope the calf is ok. In 2016 I famously injured my calf the Tuesday before running Manchester. I took out my frustration by punching a for-sale sign and ripping it out of the ground. Was fine by Sunday and it didn't affect my race. Hopefully yours is something similar.
  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Hi guys,

    Long time no speak. I can't keep up with the pace on here (running and posting) :)

    Skim read a bit and totally in awe of the many great race performances of late. Too many to mention.

    A bit shocked to read about your dad, TR. I didn't even know you could live without a stomach. Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery. My dad is 84 and had a major heart scare last year (open heart surgery for over 5 hours) so I can relate a bit to how things must have been for you. And a few weeks later my husband keeled over with cardiac arrest leading to my first attempt at CPR … Both are doing great again.

    Joe: OMG, another drama. Blimey, what is it with you? If you're now mowed down by a tractor or a car you pass out cold over Katie's bike. Sounds like a blood pressure thing to me. I'm no doctor and may be barking up the wrong tree but I suffer from super low blood pressure and used to pass out quite often. It always starts with me feeling like I'm about to throw up complete with cold sweat and all that shit but never quite making it to the porcellain department but rather waking up crumpled on the floor without remembering how I got there. I can read the signs well enough these days so I just sit down before it gets bad. Maybe you just overcooked things a bit training-wise and perhaps you had a low-level virus in you? Fingers crossed you feel better soon. Like the others said, you have so much solid training in the bank, a few days off will not make a difference.

    Just wishing everyone racing this weekend best of luck.

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Slowly, slowly spoons. More positive progress. I wonder what the police action was about this morning?

    Best of luck for the weekend’s little jaunt, AWC.

    Punchy session before the big day, George. Best of luck.

    Joe – really hope everything is ok. I might sound a bit dramatic, but worth getting yourself checked out with Cardiac Risk in the Young (CRY) – I have known other aerobic beasts like yourself who have benefitted from their input and, sadly, one who didn’t get the chance. Also, as you say, a few easy days will do you no harm. Given that I think you get great gains from pure mileage, not worrying about mega sessions next week shouldn’t disrupt things.

    Macca – good to see the real target out there. If anyone is capable, it’s you. Hope the VFs work out for you. Can’t wait to see your result. And to see what a recovery run in London looks like.

    More rapid reps, hamo.

    Bloody early Steve.

    FBT – superb question. Day before, I reckon, although anywhere in the last week would do me. When to shave the chest, especially nipples, is my conundrum.

    HPR – don’t overthink it. By just eating whatever you normally do, and running less, you will be increasing glycogen storage. Just don’t overeat – I think so many make this mistake. Hope you can find a for sale sign. Best of luck at the weekend.

    In the midst of the last really big week of running, busy work and for some reason feeling the clock change – so pretty tired. MLR of 15M at 7:37 pace yesterday. A few strides and some slow running for 8M this morning. Easy Friday and Saturday then last mega-long on Sunday. I am really enjoying it, just tired at the moment. Almost time to plan post race beers.


  • Joe Blogs-BRJoe Blogs-BR ✭✭✭
    edited April 4
    Thanks for the notes/advice everyone. Some really good input and I've taken a lot of it on board. I went to the doctors yesterday and had an ECG, effectively gave me the all clear, citing some sort of underlying virus. 

    SQ - I've already been checked by CRY in the past, so I'm happy nothing concerning is going on there. 

    Chick - Sounds very similar and I do have low blood pressure. 

    Reg - was wondering who would be the first to say it, and predicted it would be you. Strong.

    Into my 3rd day in a row of no training! As you can imagine, I'm not taking it that well but probably being more sensible than I ever have been in the past. I could probably run today, but going for that wait until your ready +1 rule, so will hopefully head out tomorrow morning. 

    Manchester crew - let me know what/who to look out for! I'll be there with Katie (both on bikes). 

    Blog from the race on Sunday is up for anyone wanting a read;

    https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/04/diss-duathlon-30-03-2019/
  • george_george_ ✭✭✭
    A quick check in to say that I've got a cold. Classic. Does nurofen have carbs in it?

    5 mile easy treadmill run this lunchtime to avoid potholes/weather/people

    Race number for Sunday is 2795. Gurning face, Clapham chasers vest. May or may not be near the 3 hour pacer but do say hi. 

    Good luck to HPR/Macca if I don't check in beforehand   
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