Sub 3h15



  • nicko1981nicko1981 ✭✭✭
    Great 10k time OO - sounds like more than just a solid plod!

    Stevie -  good to meet you yesterday, congrats on a great time - good to hear you gave it everything; hope the legs start feeling better soon.

    Badbark - great to hear you are making progress.

    Joolska - I saw Jenny at about mile 9 she was running super strong; what a great result for her. Hope that you can get back to full form soon.

    Great final MLR SBD; really look forward to seeing how you guys get on, hope it will be me on my way there next year.

    So, Greater Manchester Marathon race report:

    Perfect conditions, thought it might be a bit breezy when I left the house but luckily there was hardly any wind out on the course, and the temperature stayed down with even a bit of sunshine near the end.

    Got there a little later than planned but not having to use bag drop made things a lot easier; headed for the A pen I was in but saw the 3:00 pacer flag at the back of B so made the decision to just jump in there with them. Few warmups and chat with other sub3 chasers and before I knew it we were off; I did not feel ready in any way but just set off and kept the pacer just in front. After a few miles I had gradually caught up and overtook the pace group; so decided to stay just in front where it was a bit less congested. Pace felt good and controlled.

    Hip flexor started to ache before mile 10, and I was feeling a hot spot under the arch of my foot; but just tried to put that to the back of my mind, stay with the flow and chatted to a few people off an on to make the time go faster.

    Such a good flat course; pretty good support through Sale and Altrincham - obviously nothing compared to London etc but a good turnout and friendly crowds.

    Passed halfway at exactly 1:29:00 feeling fairly strong and got a confidence boost. Fuelling strategy of gel every 4 miles going well and before I knew it we were at 20 miles with just 10k to go. MIle 23 I knew I had it in the bag, took a last gel and donated my gel belt to a spectator for some reason (?!) legs were heavy, things were hurting but I knew the result was there so I kept pace and just tried to enjoy it.

    Unlike London and Paris, you can see the finish gantry from a long way, and that last stretch is a plod; but great crowd support - saw a couple of friends right near the finish and they said it looked like I wasn't even trying; but it definitely felt like I was!

    Went through the finish with the clock still under 3:00 so that'll be a photo to cherish. Absolutely ecstatic as I had some huge doubts in the run-up to this race.

    Final chip time of 2:57:43; so a 17 second negative split and a very consistent pace throughout; couldn't have asked for a better race apart from the hip and foot pain.

    Few Guinness at the pub, good chat with Speedy Stevie and a nice pub roast back in Bristol to round off a fantastic day.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Bloomin' brilliant, Nicko! Super race management and managed to properly cash in when the conditions favoured the runners. Well bl00dy done!!
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Yes, that's fantastic Nicko! Really pleased for you. Sounds like that was a perfectly executed race :)
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Very impressed negative split Stevie. And you too Nicko- great report, you make it sound easy!
    My club mate Charlotte did 3:03 at Manchester by the way- not bad for a track star!
    I did a slow 15.5 miler this morning which was tough but doable on my tired race legs.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Excellent report nicko.  To nail the negative split and the Sub 3 is huge.  Did you feel you had been running conservatively when you got to half way?  How many 20+ mile runs did you manage in this campaign?

    Good work on the 10K OO and a decent 15 today.

    10K recovery on the treadmill at lunch time - all nice and easy.  The heart rate monitor has been playing up over the last week so may have to get a replacement.

  • nicko1981nicko1981 ✭✭✭
    Yes SBD - I felt pretty much all the way that I was running at a good controlled pace. My HR average was 170 so pretty much spot on where I think it should be for that distance. If I'd pushed it at a later stage, maybe I could shave off a little bit of time; but on my first real attainable sub 3 attempt I think being slightly conservative was better.

    Managed only 4 20+ milers I think since January (20,20,22,22) but a few 18s and logged a lot more quality sessions than I have previously. Mileage nowhere near what you guys do but with my dodgy achilles I think quality over quantity might be my way forward.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    How old are you Nicko and roughly what is your max HR?
  • Hello guys, I've been very absent for a long while!

    Good to see you are all at it with gusto and enthusiasm, some cracking results from Sunday on here - bravo!

    I think I broke all the sub 3.15 threads rules we talk about on here in Manchester on Sunday. I've not run a sub 90 minute half for 2 years or a sub 40 10k or even a sub 20 parkrun either. But I somehow managed a sub 3.15 marathon (just) with a chip time of 3.14.43. So proof that you can do it without that background?

    TBH I went into the race not knowing what pace to go for although I thought around 7.30 was doable, but the self-doubt monster in my head was doing its best to say otherwise from the start. Don't go off too fast, remember that cramp you used to get from 16+ miles, you've not done enough mara paced miles in training and so on... But I felt the training went well and I managed about 6 x 20 milers and a bit more consistent running in general than normal.

    The first few miles went well around 7.15 pace. But halfway through my splits were slipping to the mid 20's. It was only when I got to 23 miles I thought I'd just about make it. The last 2 miles including the very long (I can see the finish but it's not getting any closer) last mile were painful.

    So really pleased to pull it out of the bag 2 weeks after turning 50. I remember starting off on this sub 3.15 journey 10 years ago and taking a few years to eventually get it. So more than happy to tick it off again at 50 years old. I think I can go back to marathon retirement again!

    Good luck for London for all of you running. I still see Purple Martin down the Club and his training for London is going very well. He's looking for low 2.40's!
  • nicko1981nicko1981 ✭✭✭
    OO54 said:
    How old are you Nicko and roughly what is your max HR?
    I'm 37; so it should be a max of 183 but I can get it up close to 200 sometimes and resting HR is 42. Someone said on here a few days back, HR zones are a thing that can be quite different for different people?
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Your HR range is similar to mine Nicko though I rarely get in the 190s. When I blew up in Paris last year it was noticeable that my HR skyrocketed just before I imploded, so I pay a lot more attention to it in races. Once again, a fab performance Sir.
    In other news I've just ordered a pair of Flyknits as a last desperate attempt to find a better pair of race shoes for London-  eagerly anticipating their arrival tomorrow.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    The Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit, OO? I have those and they feel great. Only done 10 miles in them. I'll use them on my final taper runs to bed them in with a new pair of socks. looking forward to seeing how they perform over the longer distance.

    Great going KR, well done. 51 years old here and those that hit 3.15 and below to me were on another planet, never thought I could go from doing a 5 hour marathon to this. Mind you, it feels like a sub-3 thread at the moment!

    Scanning the Manchester results to see how friends did, I see a guy did 2.59.59. I hope that was his first sub-3, he must be over the moon!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019

    I think my hr average in London last year was 169. I tend to aim at  low 160s for a marathon as an average and like OO I do pay a lot of attention to it during a marathon and try and keep it below 160 at least in the first half.

    KR- good work.

    G-dawg, I saw also someone who has never run sub 3 posted a 3.00.01. Such a miniscule period of time there between sheer joy and absolute despair!

    Session for me lunchtime, legs feel reasonably fresh.

    They must all be running 2.45 and below in the sub 3 thread!!

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    OO - sorry, in all the excitement of the 2 sub 3s this weekend, I missed your 10k. Nice work.
    SBD - do you use your HRM when racing?
    KR - great to hear from you and good news too!  I just need to be able to go sub 3:15 in spite of ticking all the boxes ;)
    Nicko - so you're a young whipper-snapper! Definitely think you can shave a few more mins off yet.
    4 easy miles this morning. Finally worked out that I can cut out a lot of fibre from my diet in the carb-load to increase the percentage of carb-intake. D'oh!
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Gul, though to be honest I'm hoping to improve on that, sub 37 is where I want to be for 10k.
    Thanks GDawg that's great feedback, I'm actually quite excited to run in them given all the hype, and for £100 I'm willing to try them. Probably about £30 more than I'd normally pay for shoes.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Solid session over lunch of 6,5,4,3,2,2,3,4,5,6 mins at hmp all off 90s at mp. Covered 8.3 miles in total with an overall average pace of 6.26 and hr 162.

    Looking back, mid November i did a similar session covering 5.8m at 6.34 average pace for 168 average hr so pretty big improvement from then. 

    Just easy miles now this week but lots of them. Should be a 65m week. Highest ever is 66 i think so may find an extra 2 miles at some point. 
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Manchester Marathon Race Report:

    As most of you know I managed to tear a calf at the start of January, 13 weeks out from the marathon which didn't leave much time to recover. Did lots of work on the turbo trainer and all the rehab exercises and I was cleared to return to full training with 7 weeks to go. So spoke to Lewis (my coach) and we decided to go with 6 weeks training a one week taper and see where I was fitness wise. Only managed to get 3 longish runs in of 15m, 18 with MP and 20 with MP but I felt in good shape and that there was a possibility of a PB.

    So race day started off badly with the prebooked taxi not turning up outside the hotel. It was chaos with runners waiting for taxis and getting stressed out. Eventually jumped on the shuttle bus, of which the driver didn't even realise the marathon was on! Ended up getting dropped off around 15mins from the start. Quick warm up and I got into the start pen at the front of Pen B. Felt really nervous this time so was just waiting impatiently for the gun to go off!

    Plan set with Lewis was to run 6.40-6.45 for the first 3 miles and then try and settle into around 6.35 pace. As the gun goes off and we are walking towards the start someone lifted the tape up so I ended up going off at the back of Pen A in the first wave. First couple of miles I was still feeling nervous and tried to settle into a rhythm, first task was to get past the 3 hour pacer who seemed to be way ahead of pace! Came through 3 miles in about 20.30 which was behind pace but I was happy with.

    Settled in from there and managed to keep ticking off 6.35s ish which I was happy with and I was feeling good. At around mile 7 I spotted a K&D club vest in the distance and decided to reel that in, quickly noticed that Jason was also in the same group. Caught my club mate at around mile 9 and asked him how he was doing, he said he was banking time for a sub 3 and was hoping to hold on! (He didn't) I then caught SJ and had a little chat and we ran together for a few miles. Went through halfway in 1.26.51 with SJ and another clubmate who was struggling big time.

    Next few miles we all bang on pace and fairly uneventful. Around mile 17 I could feel my quads were starting to ache which wasn't a good sign! Mile 20 & 21 were 6.30 and 6.29 so I may have got a bit excited early! I knew a PB was on at this point and that sub 2.53 was going to be close. Mile 23 I was really aching and starting to struggle to hold pace, really had to start digging in. Concentrated on passing vests and moving through the field. 23,24,25 came in at 6.34, 6.36, 6.42 so I was just about holding on. After the 25m marker as I was just hoping for the finish! Came round the final corner to the long finish straight and just gave it everything I had, saw my family shortly before the finish and managed to find a sprint finish!

    Final time of 2.53.17 so a 1.26.51/1.26.16 split, absolutely ecstatic with that off a severely shortened build up. Also the first race I really feel I have executed almost perfectly and left everything out there. Waited at the finish for Jason and the caught up with Nicko in the pub. A great day for all!
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Amazing result considering the injury, no wonder you are pleased with that Stevie. A time many of us can only dream of.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Great report Stevie - given the build up, to finish so strongly from 20 miles and get the negative split is amazing.  A lot more to come, I'm sure.

    An excellent HMP session DT.

    Good easy miles Gul.  Definitely wise to keep an eye on the fibre.  White rice is taper gold!  I've always used the HR monitor in races - for the marathon it's really helpful at making sure you're not pushing too hard, particularly in the first half.

    Well done on the Sub 3:15 KR!

    Unless you're on a 2-week taper, welcome to taper land VLMers!  Week 3 is when it gets tough!

    7 miles general aerobic at lunch-time - heart rate nice and low.  Everything behaving nicely but that doesn't stop the paranoia.

    Strange things happening on the Boston weather front.  At the moment, anything is possible! 

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Totally incredible achievement Stevie. Awesome time and when you consider an injury hampered campaign, Wow!!

    Felt really low today, CNBA to go out tonight but the spreadsheet and Strava won't update themselves so I hit the streets with mojo the height of a snake belly. No real.problems, just campaign fatigue.

    First mile felt comfy at 6.56, so I tried to hit all of them at 6.5x.

    Found myself running steady and I hit all the splits and finished with a 6.39.

    Total of 12 miles averaging 6.49.
    I'm rather happy with that, what with Saturday's 20 miler still lingering.

    First week of taper always feels like Business as usual, so with a lower total last week, I'll do 40-odd at usual intensity this week and 30 next week at MP and slower.
    Worked well for the last 2 campaign's. 
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Welcome back knight rider very pleased for you on the sub 3:15. 50+ is certainly no barrier to good times!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019

    Thanks for the reports Nicko and Stevie. Great results for both of you and both negative splits. They seem to be the way forward, particularly as you reference your clubmate, Stevie, who was banking time.

    Just keeping ticking over, SBD.

    Certainly no taper on the schedule this week. There are 65m scheduled, but other than yesterdays session it is all easy. However, my highest ever week is 66m, so tonights 4 is being upgraded to a 5 and then a mile will no doubt be added on to either Thursday or Fridays run.

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Thanks everyone, I'm still in a bit of shock to be honest! I'm still in no state to go for a run, going to try and swim later today and may just take the whole week off to help recovery. 

    Interesting chat about HR, even though I train using it I don't wear my chest strap during a marathon and just run to feel.

    Hope there isn't too much taper madness for SBD & Gul! Looking forward to seeing how you do.

    DT - That is a massive week! Should set you up well for the taper. My club mate who was banking time finished in 3.14 so he must have crashed hard! 

    Knightrider - Excellent performance and time!

    Booked train tickets to London for VLM so looking forward to cheering you all on down the embankment and meeting for a beer afterwards.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good stuff, Stevie re London.  Cant you be somewhere where we are fresh and cruising?!

    Yes, I don't have my hr data showing in a race other than a mara and then I see it as very important data as I know my lines well. That is a crash for someone going for sub 3.

    I think I can get away with the miles this week because I am very disciplined with my non session miles and very rarely run a mile that doesn't begin with an 8.

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Haha I might try to get to a couple of places but we will see!
    Completely agree on the non session runs, most of mine are around 8.15 and I always try to make sure my HR is less than 140. Means I feel a lot fresher when it comes to a session day!
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Stevie - great report and great racing.
    SBD - went carb-load shopping before work this morning, so all stocked up and ready to go now! Usual taper madness here too with sore throat, checking weather every 5 mins etc...
    5 steady miles this morning with 6 x 100m strides, averaging 7:25/m. Taper seems to be doing its magic and raring to go here!
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Interesting stuff from you faster boys regarding pacing. I do much lower volumes than most on here so quality seems to be a theme. I'm averaging about 43 miles per week at the moment but on this campaign I have made a conscious effort to identify key sessions and slow down on others. 

    This will be my highest volume campaign, if I'd not had a mini-taper for the Surrey HM I'd have hit 700 miles since the 2nd week of Jan.
    I tweak each campaign to try and improve, this one has seen more recovery runs, slower LSRs and more attention to 7.00m/m pace and just below on quality runs as i want that to be my MP.

    I've also cut down on some crap food and this morning was 12st 8lbs (dipping into 79kg) for the first time since I was in my early twenties, probably. That was despite a huge pasta meal after my 12 miler last night and a few pints of water.
    Just one pound to go to hit the race week target.

    Playing with some figures, if each pound of weight lost equates to a 1% pace increase (top end), then with fancy lighter shoes which also have more cushioning and if the weather is favourable, things could get very interesting indeed...
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    G-dawg, I think since the turn of the year I've averaged about 52 miles per week and strava has my current last 4 weeks average at 56, so I am doing roughly 20% more miles than you. Likewise, each cycle I try and make a little tweak to push things along, not necessarily running wise. This cycle after long runs and big sessions I have been taking sis rego recovery and also been taking a night time recovery product. No idea if they will have helped but it makes me feel like I am upping my game.

    I think I am going to have to accept this will be a fat marathon! I've been hitting paces for hr's that are very favourable of late so I am also hoping introducing my race shoe will give me that something more again.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    GD - getting close to race weight; could make all the difference!
    DT  - never tried recovery products. As you say, not easy to know if it has made any gains for you.
    4 easy miles for me this morning. Wrist HRM read avg bpm of 110; so I won't be bothering to look at that on Sunday! Carb-load has now begun; yum-yum.
    So looking back at the campaign, it's been about a similar amount of mileage as my last one (now at 1124 in 18 weeks, including a 20 mile week over Christmas/New Year). However there has been quite a marked difference in how the miles were done. Only 3 weekend runs this year for a start! And masses of MLRs (and LRs):-
    9 x 11 miles
    17 x 12 miles
    11 x 13 miles
    2 x 14 miles
    7 x 15 miles
    3 x 16 miles
    1 x 17 miles
    2 x 18 miles
    7 x 20 miles
    1 x 21 miles
    2 x 22 miles
    After Rother Valley marathon, I made the decision to ditch the caffeine depletion, so I've been drinking my usual amount of coffee this week and will continue up to the race (drinking black coffee that is, I don't take gels or tablets or other caffeine drinks).
    Feeling fairly confident that I am ready to give sub 3:15 my best shot on Sunday. And being in Boston, hopefully it might be more than a feeling. Smokin' maybe ;) 
    The only negative at the moment is the weather (of course). 5C with a moderate easterly breeze off the sea, feeling like 2C. Will probably wear 2 layers (or maybe 3!)
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    That's an amazing number of miles, Gul, a superb achievement in itself. Will you have any fuel during the race other than the water on offer? On my 20 milers I've only been taking two gels but on race day I'll down 3 or 4 as I will have never covered that distance at that pace before (hopefully).

    5 trail recoveries yesterday and track tonight for more 800s. Final speed session of the campaign, next week will be slow with a few MP bits in there as I go through a much needed recovery phase.

    The U.S. of A. boys may get a bit wet on Monday. Looks like poor conditions again. Hope the forecast changes for them.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    just delurking (I'm still here) to say brilliant work to nicko & Stevie, and to wish Gul all the best on Sunday. I really hope you get what you deserve; I'll be thinking of you :)   (and of course the USA chaps on Monday)
    not doing much here (tho' did bag a 14 last weekend).  not helped by a sudden bereavement the other week, the resultant funeral took place on Monday this week. 

    we never know what is around the corner.   
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