Shades Marathon Training

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I do have another double there in mind as I just think I can do much better!  I did 3:46/4:27 there, where my best effort elsewhere last year was 3:43/3:50.  Similarly, I'm probably going to do a track marathon again after the comparative disaster earlier this year (4:26).  There's definitely room for improvement!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Shades, I'm glad there's no damage to the calf. I guess neither of us did great today but we both did OK under the circumstances. Sometimes that's all you can ask for.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you're a glutton for punishment planning another double at Plym Trail.

    And another track marathon too.  You might find it mentally easier to do a 6 hour on a track rather than the marathon.

    Cal - you are absolutely right. At least we made it to the start line and gave it our best shot.

    Robert - did you do Halstead today?
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Oh and I didn't see Khani - it was quite busy at the race village so not much chance of finding people. I wonder how he got on.
  • Webby4216Webby4216 ✭✭✭
    Big G - 62 marathons is very impressive, do you mostly book local ones or all over the place? Shades has done over 300!? Strava tells me I haven't even done 300 runs yet!! 

    Cal - Sorry to hear your run wasn't as good as hoped. Still, managing under 2 hrs is a good achievement. I think spring events can be tough if the weather is even remotely mild. Training all through the winter acclimatises you to that kind of weather and even though 12 degrees might not be 'warm', it is compared to the last 4-5 months!

    I've often wondered how Vapor Fly's would feel to run in with a carbon plate in them. I'd be worried the plate would lead to a hard feel to the run and sore feet. I run in Odyssey Reacts which I've only just come upon (last 6 months) but I really like them, comfy, good cushioning.

    Shades - Yes, very pleased with the time from yesterday. Wasn't expecting that much of a PB but as you say the marathon training is paying dividends. Shame you didn't have a good run today but glad to hear the calf seems to have settled down, hopefully nothing more than a twinge.

    8 easy recovery miles for me today after the race yesterday. Felt quite warm in the sun, went along the Lee Valley canal towpath which was lovely in the sunshine. A lot of walkers/runners/cyclists out.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Cal - I expect Gatwick was quite a big race and even at smaller races it's not easy to find folk, although post race I think Khanivore might have been at one of the food stalls ;) 

    Webby - it's always tough doing the first race of the year in warmer weather, but the body adapts well after that, it's just the first one that is tough.  Of course it does get harder when it gets much warmer 26+, and 30+ are challenging.

    You've recovered well from that 10k PB.   Have you some more short races planned, shame to waste your fitness while you're obviously in PB shape?

    5 mile recovery run done this morning, lovely morning but quite chilly again.   Calf is fine, but I did only run on the flat, just general tiredness in the legs but less than last week, so hoping for a quick recovery ;)  I have Yogalates this morning that always is a good post race stretch.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Webby, I do as many local ones as I can to save on travelling/hotels, but compared to other parts of the country, Devon don’t have that many so I often have to travel for them.  I’ve got a long - and growing - list of events I want to do though. I prefer what I may call ‘proper’ road events - I.E., events like Loch Ness, Cornish etc, ran on roads.  But I also do quite a lot of lapped events on paths to keep the numbers ticking over.  Also, I treat myself to a European event when I can, and make a long weekend of it.  Although I do as many local ones as I can, there are often clashes.  For example, this year Barnstaple (only about 1hr15mins up the road and a very affordable race at around £30) is on the same day as Berlin, which as you know is expensive!

    62 may sound a lot but in the 100MC there are loads of people who’ve done way more - for example, there was a guy recently who celebrated his 1000th. And there’s another guy who has done something like 260 events in a year. It was only in the second half of 2017 that I started thinking that I could and want to get to the 100, but having done 62 there’s a long, long way to go and anything can happen with injuries etc. For me, it’s trying to find a balance between doing enough to keep the numbers ticking over and being fresh enough for key events to give them a good crack. IE out of that 31 last year I probably only ‘raced’ about 5, and I was tired quite a lot in the week so my training in the week wasn’t what I ideally wanted.  I was hoping to improve on that aspect this year. Ultimately, as well as the numbers, I still want to target certain events for decent times and when it all comes together I think I can get PBs still. 
  • Webby4216Webby4216 ✭✭✭
    Shades - No, haven't got anything else planned at the moment. There's a parkrun only a mile from where I live that I try and get to most weeks so I can have a crack at a 5k PB there easily enough. It's a nice course, half paved/half on grass. Plan in my head was to spend the next month or two before I start training plan for Berlin getting 35 miles a week in roughly and trying to incorporate some hill sprints and strides into my training as I haven't really done those before. I was going to try and look for a local half just before Berlin training starts as a gauge to where I'm at and what I should be aiming for there. Welcome to suggestions on what I should be doing though!

    Big G - I can imagine the travel/accommodation costs can rack up quite quickly if you are travelling to quite a few events. Being so close to London, usually fairly easy to find a 5k/10k race to do. Halfs are a little less frequent. I also like the idea of turning overseas events into holidays. Did the same for Paris this year, I hadn't been before so we had the week following the marathon there to see the sights and took the little one to Euro Disney. We were there while Notre Dame was on fire which was eerie. Literally the evening before we had been on a boat cruise next to it.

    Must take careful planning to keep yourself in shape for all those events, hats off to you.

    Rest day for me today, I keep thinking I should try and sign up for a pilates or yoga class at the gym for some cross training as I know my core strength is not what it could be and I'm sure that would help the running. Maybe next week!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - turned out we had 15 finishers yesterday after all so no problems there.   There was a guy there doing his 99th, his 100th is next week at Imerys marathon.

    I see Davey is putting his Xmas race on again, 7th December, entries open 17th May, might be a useful one for you to help with the catch up.

    Webby - This is a good time, before you settle into your Berlin training, to maybe do a race or two.   Doesn't have to be races that you chase a PB but maybe hilly or off road, adds variety to your running and won't interfere with your planned marathon training.  A chance to enjoy your running while not following a plan.
    Yes, definitely plan a half marathon pre Berlin.   A half marathon is a very good test of how your marathon training is going and a good way to give you an idea of what marathon pace to aim for on race day. 


    Lovely Yogalates class today, I'm completely twinge free after it.   The instructor did the Moonwalk over the weekend so had us doing lots of hamstring stretches which was helpful for her and me.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Webby - Welcome and great marathon time improvement. Well done on the 10k PB too.
    Shades - Shame about your time, but it's a run in the bank and more training for DD.
    Ian - Yes, same course I've done before.
    Cal - Nice parkrun. Congrats on the half, not the time you wanted but a good run.

    Due to the early football kick off time (12:30) I had to change my usual Parkrun plan...so instead of a 2 mile warm up and then 5 mile cool down to make 10 mile for the day, I did 4 miles warm up and 3 cool down! Anyway plan was to see how close to 18 mins I could get, set off a bit too quick, but eased into a 5:48 mile and was in the top 10 at this point, running with a few others. However lost the few people in front of me, so had to run solo after about 1 mile. Paced slipped to 6:11/6:09 for the enxt 2 miles to finish in 18:40 in 7th place.....PB of 16 seconds but not the time I wanted.
    Sunday did 75 mins on the bike and a 3 mile recovery with strides. 44 miles for the week, which surprised me, as felt like I had run much less.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Shades, I will probably enter that Xmas one of Davey's :)  I did fairly well at his Xmas one last year.

    Steve, great time there.  Probably if you were in a proper race, with more people around you, you'd get closer to your goal.  I know last year I did 20:16 as a max effort at parkrun running mainly on my own, but a couple of weeks later I did 19:40 at a proper race with loads of people around me.

    Webby, yeah, I try not and think too much about the cash.  It's my main hobby, I don't smoke or drink, and it keeps me suitably entertained ;)  I've had a few near misses on holiday - friends say they try and come on holiday with me, as things seem to happen the days after I've been there (London, India, Tunisia...bad stuff happened soon after I passed through specific areas!).

    Arm is improving all the time, but I still can't run.  I hope it won't be too much longer though - maybe a couple of weeks or so.  With that in mind, I went for a nice walk around some trials today, for about 7 miles in total.  It was nice to be out.  Hopefully I'll do a few more longer walks now that the arm is more bearable, prior to getting back to running.  I know it's not the same as running, but it's better than sitting on my arse all day!
  • Webby4216Webby4216 ✭✭✭
    Shades - good idea about some races that are different to what I've done before. I'll definitely have a look for some local ones in the next month or two. I haven't really done any trail/off road running at all so maybe I'll look for something along those lines.

    Steve - well done on Park run, that's a great time regardless of how you felt about it. Any PB is not to be sniffed at.

    Big G - I often wonder how much it costs the average smoker over the course of a year. I bet expenses on running related activities are probably not much different or more than likely cheaper, depending on where you go I suppose. I used to work in an off licence during my university days and remember when a packet of 20 cigs was £3-4. Nowadays you are lucky to get much change out of a tenner. Good to hear the arm is continuing to improve.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Committee meeting tonight and I’ve heard Young Trotter has landed himself a sponsorship deal.  Pro Direct, which is quite a big company but happens to be local to us, will be providing him with kit, including running shoes (he races in the expensive Nikes).  Running around 4-5000 miles a year he probably goes through a lot of shoes! He wrote to committee as Pro Direct will want him to race in their kit at big events, so he won’t be in Trotters gear at those.  Of course we didn’t object!  They’ll also be paying for race entires and hotels for the big events and they came to him out of the blue by all accounts. Good on him. His first race for them is this weekend I think. He was apparently a bit worried as he says he won’t race them all but will use some of the races as training, but Pro Direct were apparently fine with that.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - well done on the PB, even if it wasn't what you'd hoped for.  Trouble is in a 5k, there's not enough time to make up any time or recover if you went off too fast.  But you know it's there for next time, maybe you can find a 5km race as Big G suggests.

    Webby - the ground is so hard at the moment that you could easily do any off road races in road shoes so no need to splash out on extra gear.

    We all choose what we want to spend our money on, I budget carefully so I can spend as much as I can on running, going to races, kit etc :)

    Big G - well you're getting some fair mileage in with the walking, it won't be long before you're back running.

    Wow, that is fabulous news re YT's sponsorship.   I can't think of better sponsors for him, being local and of course running kit suppliers.  That's a good deal, will save YT's parents a fortune!!   At least he'll still be in Trotter's kit for London marathon.  

    Every time I was looking to change my job I so wanted to go and work at Pro Direct but there was never a vacancy, probably a good thing as I'd have spent all my salary on running stuff.

    5 miles this morning, lovely sunny morning but bitterly cold wind, I saw some very cold cyclists this morning that I don't think had been expecting it to be so cold.   My legs are fine, quads a little tired, calf is pain free but I will be careful in Pilates, she's in the habit at the moment of giving us tough balance exercises and holding them for quite a long time, which is really tough on the calf muscles.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, good luck to him. In his letter to committee he’d thought about a couple of things, in order to be fair to previous runners.  IE, if he breaks a club record in Pro Direct’s kit, it won’t count as a record (there’s a long standing rule for that, and we didn’t think we should bend that for him). I suppose the other thing with a deal like that is Pro Direct may open up other doors/opportunities for him in the future. He’s got to do some press as well, which he’s not too happy about(!!), but it’s a great opportunity.

    It was funny as he apparently stressed ‘you know I run in those expensive Nikes, right?’, and they said that they already knew that as he was a customer of theirs :)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Big G - that's a tough rule re club records, I think the club should be proud if he breaks any club records irrespective of what kit he's wearing.   Yes, he could easily pick up more sponsors, say for gels/sports drinks etc.
    No doubt he'll be doing the social media bit too.
     
    I can imagine him saying that about his shoes :) 

    Incidentally I've been keeping an eye out for any Guide 10's, they're like hens' teeth now.   I spent ages trawling all the websites I could find and only tracked down 3 that had any in my size, all more money than I was prepared to pay for.  Now down to two, Amazon at £175 + 18 shipping :o  and Pro Direct at £70.  £70 is still more than I want to pay but I'm checking every day hoping for a price drop.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah it does feel a bit tough, I agree actually.  But that’s what was decided overall. It was in the context of trying to be fair to previous record holders, but I agree it’s quite tough. It’s a balancing act as some people already say we give the faster runners too much attention and don’t celebrate other people’s achievements enough and that we’re supposed to be all inclusive etc. :/
  • Been missing for about a week and will have a read back later.  Foot had a bit of a niggle last week after the club run on Tues and there has been a niggle since.  Did parkrun on Saturday and a bit of pain returned.  So taking it easy rolling and stretching but probably put my chances of DD to about 10%.  So pissed off at the moment but not alot I can do about it.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    It's nice to be sponsored by a shop rather than one particular brand so he doesn't have to change the shoes he wears. But yes, that's a tough rule. I think all clubs love to shout about their top runners and it's easy to overlook runners who are more average but are still hacking chunks off their PBs.

    Lovely morning so a 7 mile easy/recovery run today. I'm feeling the effects of Gatwick in my hips and legs although I did get a massage yesterday. However, I am not nearly as sluggish as last week - I averaged 10:41 for this run whereas I was doing 11+ last week.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Really sorry to hear that Robert :( Being injured is crap!  Are you reconsidering the cortisone injections?
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Rob - Fingers crossed it eases up and you can run again soon.
    Cal - Nice recovery.
    Big G - Yeah, I might consider a 5k race at some point. A few of the faster runners were not at parkrun, hence the 7th place, so maybe I also need to pick my week better next time!
    Shades - I also think I don't do much running at 5k pace, so that won't help. I've probably done 5 or 6 sessions in the last 12 months.
    7 miles with strides today, legs feel good, but hamstrings a bit tight after doing some gardening on Sunday :D
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ugh Rob, that's not good. If you can afford it I'd definitely recommend you go see Helen Hall - she'll sort you out.
  • Cal at Wj we have a muster run, aimed for slower runners but you have someone running circling round all the runners from 10 min miles - 15 min miles so no one gets lost.  Well done at Gatwick, another sub 2 when not feeling brill is a confidence builder.   

    Webby welcome to the forum, glad i'm not the only one when I started running used to trash my legs.  Webby well done on the 10k, with a decent bank of training that could equate to a decent improvement on your marathon time.

    Shades hope plymm doesn't have a negative effect for DD!  I think if I ever did Plymm I'd turn gps off and run to feel and pace by loop, rather than having the head messed about with the tunnel. No halstead for me, after saturdays parkrun decided to carry on celebrating my birthday.

    Big G it's great that the sch has been able to keep the race going for so long and people still support it.  Good to see you're recovery is going well.  Still wouldn't consider the injection as wouldn't see any long term benefits.

    Steve well done on the parkrun pb, not a bad consolation for not getting the time you're after.

    Ian hope your busy life will allow you to get a last couple of runs in before DD.

    I'm back to NDW this weekend to volunteer, as Aid station manager, then to help at the finish.  It does mean I'll have a free place for next year, rather lose a free place than to lose £££s if I'm still not running.
  • cal unfortunately any spare monies going to be tied up into purchasing a car 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Another absentee since last week.
    Shades/Cal-Sorry the races didn't go as you hoped.
    Steve-Still a decent PB at that pace with more to come.
    Big G-Great news for YT,don't understand why club records have to be broken in a club top,surely if he's a member then he's broke it?
    Webby-That's a great chunk off your PB,well done.
    Rob-Sad to hear you've had a bad week,sounded like you were really improving,time to look at the next stage of treatment?
    No running since Wednesday for me due to work/football and a 3.5hr drive into Gloucestershire for the match last night means I need a good run today.1 thing I've noticed is the Achilles is a lot better in the mornings now,still feel it but I can probably start running in mornings again,which will help with my mileage.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Robert - so sorry to hear the foot is playing up again. :(    Maybe consider booking that injection in a week or two, it does seem to have done the trick with mamafox, although I know you're not keen.  

    If you're not going to get to DD do try and transfer your place, the reserve list has been very quiet but I still think there's one on there looking for place.  Some have posted on the FB page that they have a place to transfer and that has encouraged some to put their details up on the reserve page, at least it's some damage limitation.

    Belated Happy Birthday and I hope you had a good time.

    I think I would find Plym trail hard without my Garmin, as there are no mile markers although I do know roughly, I do rely on my Garmin especially in the last few miles .  My Garmin behaved the same this time as last and cut out halfway through the tunnel each time so came out with 25.something miles

    Big G - well if that's the club rule.  But I would be proud to have a very fast runner in my club with all the club records, even if they were world class.

    Cal - I agree, a running retailer is a much better sponsor than one brand.   Pro Direct stock a wide variety of brands, I'd be like a kid in a sweet shop. :) 

    You're recovering better this week.

    Steve - maybe have a go at the 5km after Edinburgh.

    Be careful with that cross training....gardening, remember Big G got injured watching snooker ;)  

    Ian - that's great news about the achilles, I don't like to keep asking about it, you do seem to manage it very well.

    Pilates was really good, challenging again. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I've just been to buy a new fridge freezer this morning and as I was leaving the guy asked if I want the door hinges swapping round which was good customer service, I thought of you when he asked :)
  • OnTheBeachOnTheBeach ✭✭✭
    Hi Everyone

    Hope everyone is well and enjoying their training and racing.
    Just popping in to see what everyone's been up to and say hello.
    I see a fair bit on Strava from a few of you and always appreciate the Kudos in return.
    Those MWLR are always a tough one for me, but fortunately where I work is a healthy 7 miles from home and the route is pretty much all paved cycleways along the coast. So that has helped me a lot this year.

    I've also been adding some cycling to and from work to just add that little extra into my weeks.
    Training wise for me has been going well so far, i've adapted Shade's plan a little to cater for double long runs at a weekend. Although I am struggling to balance life and training this time of year. Always seem to have something planned at a weekend.

    So 6 months of training for one weekend race is becoming a strain, feel like I need to enter a marathon to help make all the training feel more worthwhile. Toying with the River Meon Marathon in just over two weeks.
    It seems to fit with my schedule quite well, just not sure if my recovery will allow me to keep training enough ready for the Race to the King 3 weeks afterwards. Dilemma. 

    Back at Easter I was lucky to treat myself to a 20 mile romp along the Jurassic coast, the elevation was a killer and so was the heat. Although I couldn't track my performance via my pace, I was just glad to see it through and to not feel too ill and sore aftertwards. So I'm feeling relatively prepared for my Ultra :) 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    OTB - Lovely to hear from you.  I saw from our race list that it's not too long to your ultra.

    MWLR are the hardest to schedule into normal life, so well done on managing to slot them into your commute.

    Yes, go ahead and enter that marathon.   Run it at a slower pace than you would normally, I don't know how hilly it is but if it's flat then aim for marathon pace plus at least an extra minute a mile.   Good opportunity to practise your fuelling.  You recover well from events so I think you'll be fine, make sure you keep well hydrated and fuelled during the race and take walk breaks if necessary, all of this will be great ultra training.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    OTB, good to hear from you.  I'm with Shades - I'd say enter the marathon, but maybe don't race it.

    Shades, with the Plym Trail, that flat section along the bottom by the railway track to the turn around point is always longer than I think it should be.  Even with a Garmin, I still occasionally mutter "where's the blasted turn around point?!", but a quick look at the device confirms it's (nearly always) "just around the corner".  Plus, I have to say, the exact location of the cone and associated car seems to vary very slightly from race to race....

    I did a nice approx 6 mile walk this morning.  Chilly but sunny and it was a decent walk.  I'm still on the 4x15g of co-codamil.  I tried just 3x15g yesterday but it was a bit sore on that, so upped it back to 4 for today.  I still take a paracetamol alongside it each time as well, plus still on the twice-a-day strong anti-inflamatories, as there is still swelling there.

    On the walks today and yesterday I was listening to a couple of podcasts with Gary Cantrell (Barkley RD).  Fascinating guy.  He was talking about when he was what he described as a "mediocre runner" back in the 70s/80s - with a 1:19 half time!  He was also talking about some of the other races he organises.  There's one he runs in his "back yard", and the rules are you have to do the (just over) 4-mile loop every hour, and if you're outside that you're out.  People go for hours, but he says it can mess with the heads of the quicker guys as at the start of each lap, they're stood there with the "slower runners" again.  Sometimes it's a "slower" person that wins the thing, as they can just keep going at a certain pace.  4-miles an hour doesn't seem a lot does it, but the winner keeps going for 59hrs or something!
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2018/jan/30/a-loop-eternal-welcome-to-the-big-dog-backyard-ultra

    Here's a description of his other races.  He seems he tries to level the playing field at some of his events - I quite like the sound of his "Race for the ages" event, where it's a handicap race based on age.  From the interview, I think he considers his "Vol State" race the toughest he organises though.
    https://runningmagazine.ca/trail-running/barkley-marathons-beyond-your-reach-consider-one-of-lakes-other-ultras/

    It was also interesting when he was talking about the Rob Young incident.  He says he has come across cheats in his time, but Rob somehow seemed a bit different.  He said he seemed a genuinely nice guy and actually wasn't sure if the cheating came from him, but possibly was more driven by whoever was in the support vehicle.  But Cantrell did say he wasn't sure what was going through Young's head when he ultimately decided to cheat as it didn't seem in his character.  There came a point where two groups of people were monitoring Young in 12hr shifts (which coincided with his massive drop off in pace), but at some point Cantrell decided to step down as he'd seen enough to know Young wasn't going to make the record.  He implied he was worrying about Young's health at that point and so didn't want to be part of it any more.
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