Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    TR- must be harder than a race day, as the pure adrenaline and so many people being round you just unlocks a bit more of everything doesn't it, from pace to purpose

    Turned a lunchtime 4 miler out, glad to be nearer 7.30 pace, and started drifting off into a bizarre fantasy about running John O Groats to Land's End over xxx weeks :D

    Popping into work on the way to whoop it up.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    TR - I definitely run mine at a harder effort then MP. In HR terms its around 167 for MP and I run the tempos at 172, so in between HMP and MP. Im sure you will be able to run 6.40s at least by the time Abo comes round. 

    Muddy - Sorry to hear youre struggling again, hopefully you can still have a decent run on Sunday. I'd still take the opportunity and enjoy wearing the vest, you earned it! 
  • Went to High Wycombe track today (well, Little Marlow actually) and di my regular 6x800m session and it came out very well with the average rep about 3:03 and my best previous effort was 3:08 so happy.

    If Sunday works out as planned I'll run out to the Maidenhead Half and do a lap backwards so may well wave at you as you pass.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    What's the closest mileage you can get there Phil? 12miles? Then you'll run a 6or so miles of a lap?

    Getting a lift home presumably!!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good grief! Busy on here today! Just popping in, so no chance to do ther than skim read.  Mud - at least you know what the blood is. Pete - bad luck for the outing in the England vest, but I'd wear it anyway - with pride   :) 
    SG - go on, do Le Jog! Topless, the whole way :-) Bet that's never been done before!
    Philip - you are running a lap of Maidenhead backwards??????! Nice trak sesh btw
    5k tempo in the mix of a canal run at lunch. Not blisteringly fast but within target pace of 6:30 (just)


  • Stevie G said:
    What's the closest mileage you can get there Phil? 12miles? Then you'll run a 6or so miles of a lap?

    Getting a lift home presumably!!
    SG, the Maidenhead Half route (https://www.strava.com/activities/699951693) very sensibly gets out of Maidenhead as quickly as possible and stays away for as long as possible. It is actually Maidenhead to Cookham, back to North Town, back out to Cookham and then back to Maidenhead. From my house, I can run to Cookham in about 6 miles so that would be 18 but I'll drive to Marlow and do 4 along the Thames to Cookham, lap of 6 and 4 back for 14. You are welcome to join if you want to but probably too late for you. It is really too late for me: 9:30 start so if I aim to meet the head of the race at Boulters Lock (2 miles into their run, 6 miles into mine) at 9:45 I will start my run at about 9:00. 

    The Bus said:

    Philip - you are running a lap of Maidenhead backwards??????!


    Reverse direction  ;)
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭


    sorry to hear of the illness woes Muddy. I can imagine what's going through your mind and Pete's trying to make a decision on whether to run in the vest or not. You earned it and in my mind you should feel comfortable in wearing it. Totally understand the desire to be in top form when you don it though.

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭


    Have plans to do Long Eaton parkrun Sep 7th which is flat and fast so will be a sub-20 attempt.


    Long Eaton is indeed flat and fast, there is a narrow bridge which can becomes a bit congested on the second lap with the slower runners coming the other way. Usually plenty of runners in the sub 20 region.   

    Your other option is the relatively new Alvaston parkrun which is nearby. I haven't done it, but all reports say it is fast despite the two 180 degree turns.

  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    Tommy2D said:

    Long Eaton is indeed flat and fast, there is a narrow bridge which can becomes a bit congested on the second lap with the slower runners coming the other way. Usually plenty of runners in the sub 20 region.   

    Your other option is the relatively new Alvaston parkrun which is nearby. I haven't done it, but all reports say it is fast despite the two 180 degree turns.

    Thanks for the confirmation of that but I forgot about the bridge: 4 times over it in total! My eldest daughter lives close by Long Eaton parkrun (the distance from her front door to West Park is probably less than it is from the park entrance on the canal to parkrun start). I paced her round it once to 25 minutes and we were way too far back at the start (didn't realise how narrow it was when compared with my regular 100m plus wide start at Wycombe Rye) so it was paced progressively with a 5:34 first km and 4:37 last km and so we were running along and chatting and passing people all the way. 

    Alvaston looks a bit far away (the tourist tool says it is the 6th furthest). Are all the other closer ones hard? Beeston says "The course runs alongside the canal and the River Trent and is flat, quick and ideal for runners of all abilities."

    Daughter #3 is now in Ashby-de-la-Zouch so may do Conkers as well one day soon.
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭

    Beeston is flat but quite a lot of it is on unmade/rutted tracks and being by the canal and the Trent it's usually wind blasted in one direction or the other. None of the others are particularly fast as they're either hilly or grassy/muddy. Rushcliffe is probably the most popular one locally, I'd recommend being in the front couple of rows if you go there.

    Conkers is pretty good, I think it's a fairly fast course despite the small hill in the middle. It does come up a little bit short on GPS though.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019

    Phil - that sounds less madcap than it did before hand!

    But yeah ta, bit late for me.


    10 today to follow yesterday's tempo then. No heroics needed, and was pretty warm at 10ish when I set off (flexi hours!)

    Tomorrow will be another 10 or so - this time steady - so a 7-8 mile block of 6.35-6.40 sort of mixer, but anywhere from the 6.20-6.50 mixer is fine. Easier than Tue, harder than today.

    Beds in the longer prolonged efforts.


    I see my lot have been getting hyped at the Cliveden XC opening on Tue, and being sold out 2 days later!

    Madness.

    Zero attraction to me - a 2 lap tough XC course.

    Always makes me laugh the ones who sign up to benefit from pots/points on the club champ, but then won't show the same keenness for club series XC stuff.

    At least be consistent ;)

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cliveden is a very nice race. It used to be one of my favourites, but I can't be doing with having to enter so far in advance!
    Couple of big days there SG!
    Double day today. Slow this morning as a recovery, but slow again this evening as my knee is giving me gyp again. It was OK, after about a mile of warm up, but sore to walk on today, especially going up stairs. Bit of a weird one, as I had a slight niggle with it before I went to Scotland, but not a whisper when running up and down big hills!
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    SG, the thing is that The Cliveden XC and the TVXC events aren’t at all similar. For one, Cliveden isn’t really an XC course - it’s more trail with the fun of the steps. It’s local, at a reasonable time of the day, is in a wonderful location, is a bit of novelty, and it’s a one off race where good performances get rewarded with prizes etc. 

    With TVXC you waste most of the day trogging off down the M3 somewhere to a muddy field. Get to run through some fields and about 3 weeks later get the motivation that your performance meant absolutely jack to anyone. Really hate TVXC!!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019

    I will not be cut and pasting that last couple of lines into the team chat as a motivational booster :D:D

    In fairness to the TVXC races, they are quite varied, and arguably only the Reading course is proper XC anyway!

    The rest are all a right old mix of surfaces, real MT stuff.


    I think you are correct, in that the crux is that you have to be properly fit, mentally up for it, and you have to know you're scoring for the team.

    I can only remember a couple of years where I felt bang on at the races, but at least "always" got in the 6 for each of my 3 clubs each race as an absolute minimum. Some years in the actual top 6!

    Until Handy Cross last year, when I think I dribbled in 10th in the club alone!

    Somehow I've turned out at 5/8 two seasons ago, and 5/7 last year!

    I must admit when I look at the road races some of the TVXC clash with this year, that the idea of an offroad slog does not feel appealing.

    Let's see how things are in November onwards though! (I refuse to acknowledge Oct XC).

    If I've had some pony road turnouts, the allure of the "pace doesn't matter" offroad may rear its head!

  • Wool said:
    SG, the thing is that The Cliveden XC and the TVXC events aren’t at all similar. For one, Cliveden isn’t really an XC course - it’s more trail with the fun of the steps. It’s local, at a reasonable time of the day, is in a wonderful location, is a bit of novelty, and it’s a one off race where good performances get rewarded with prizes etc. 

    With TVXC you waste most of the day trogging off down the M3 somewhere to a muddy field. Get to run through some fields and about 3 weeks later get the motivation that your performance meant absolutely jack to anyone. Really hate TVXC!!

    "Fun of the steps?" That is the sort of fun that is normally purchased with a nod and a wink with Mistress Suzie Whiplash. 

    I have never raced Cliveden and have never really been tempted for two reasons:

    1) I just don't see the attraction of the course. I run around Cliveden from time to time and it is a great location but the course is not ideal as a XC as it is surfaced paths and steps.
    2) I guess I am too old school: for me XC has a number of elements (monthly league, county, area and national champs) and you turn out for those races. As SG says, you get a full turnout at Cliveden and then a handful at TVXC and it doesn't sit well with me.

    From my viewpoint, there are a lot of things wrong with TVXC as well as right but I don't know how to correct them. The scoring system does not match the advertised attraction of "everyone counts". Technically everyone does count, so at Handy Cross last year there were 401 runners and 239 of those were men. Tadley runners had 5 finishers and need a team of 6 so they got a penalty score of 240 and Handy Cross (the hosts) got 4 penalty scores. Datchet were the best team and their 6th runner was 15th male with a team score of 40 so any pretence that someone turning out will change that is nonsense.  Datchet had 31 men, so top 6 counts and then allow one or two spares, (next two were 17th and 18th) and everyone else after that is irrelevant. Yes, maybe they impact other teams and inflate their scores but they won't change the relative outcome. Our own SG was 9th placed for DD!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Ah, in the mere post above Phil, I'd quoted myself as 10th from the club that day, so I'll take 9th!!

    I think like Wool and even yourself, when I find that slipping out of the 6 becomes more a "regular" thing than an "aberration", I could quite easily disappear out of dodge.

    I still think the TVXC scoring isn't quite right, but then it's a tough ask.
    If numbers show that 6 men to 4 women is the right ratio - and Phil's HX 401-239 is one example where it's almost dead on, it can't then be right to weight men's and women's teams the same, instead of the 60-40% ratio.

    Maybe you could simply do finishing position all in, and then add up the 6 scoring men and 4 scoring women? That way you'd get a higher weighting from your men, which sorts the 60% bias, but the women still play a big role in it?



    10miles today, with 7miles steady. That block came out 6.37 which is comfortably in the middle of the acceptable zone.
    It's a fairly unusual zone, as it's not the pushing of threshold and above, but obvs it isn't easy in any shape of form.

    The advantage is that you can do it across town, as you're not going too fast to worry about roads, people, ups and downs killing the pace.

    Third double digit run in 3 days, with just a 4 at lunch.

    Have a slightly tickly throat still, so will enjoy a 2 sleep gap then, and SAT OFF!
  • Well I managed a fairly vigorous but short treadmill thrash yesterday, so will be out for the usual easy 10k at lunchtime and possibly have a moderate bash at a south coast parkrun tomorrow before heading for Maidenhead, so I will look forward to seeing thread luminaries at the start, and Philip coming in the opposite direction.
  • Muddy - glad to hear you're feeling slightly better. Will look out for you Sunday.

    Muddy/Wool/Pete/Phil - I'll be cruising the course on my bike, shouting at various people. Will make myself easily identifiable by throwing the flat cap on. Better half shooting for around 1:25 - she'll be in a Clapham Chasers vest. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Not much of the Cliveden course is surfaced paths Philip  - only the gravel bit in front of the house and short bit of tarmac road. The majority is through the woods and on the path along the river. Personally, I like(d) it because of the hills - from the river up to the plateau 3 times in the two loops, with some fairly technical descending too.  It also used to be just after Christmas, so had a bit of a holiday vibe about it.  Warming up  on the Parterre in front of the house is also good. The V40 trophy I got one year is still the second biggest one I've got too :-)

    Nice miles SG - 3 double digit days in a row is going some!

    F-off for me today - even drove in rather than bike, as the knee is still sore and lots of other bits are aching too!  Plan is for parkrun tomorrow, but will review that in the morning in the light of the niggles.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah Bus - i'm not sure I've done that before, and in a perfect week, it'd be the Tue-Wed, and then Friday, but a tempo in Tuesday's heat would have been a world of pain!

    2 weeks of around 70miles, with a 6mile @6.15 threshold tempo, and a 7miles at 6.35ish steady tempo, all adds up.

    I'll check the old training plans this weekend and see which of the two options below works better

    *Continue the Tue threshold, gradually ramping to finishing harder, mixing with HM, supported by a steady/progression type run
    *Change the emphasis, perhaps with some hills, or reps such as 16x400 at 10k pace.

    Moz liked to change the emphasis at times each 2 weeks, but also at times piled the threshold tempos in back to back, week after week after week.

    Will have a look at how it all developed!
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    yeah, I see Cliveden as bit of fun really. It might sit better with you boys if they dropped the XC bit from the title. Not sure why I'm defending it really, I hardly ever run it as the novelty value usually just fades to CnBA with it by the time we get to Jan!

    Keep in mind I don't really like the TV5k series either, I'm just a grumpy old bugger who would prob benefit from a change of scene after 10+ years in the same club / doing the same events.

    Good to hear Muddy. Joe - I'd expect that I won't be that far away from MrsS one way or another.

    SG - I'd call that your MP session. I like a MP session, good stuff, perhaps work it up to 10 -12 miles for the most benefit IMHO.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    :D Wool, there's always a few runners at each club who seem to dislike all the main parts of it, and you wonder why they stay! Our lot certainly have a certain element like it!

    I saw a few getting lippy about the whole Cliveden situation - and some who were on the "don't miss out, it'll sell out" chat early, moaning about missing it!!

    I suppose with zones, it only really matters what you label it yourself, and what the aim is.

    I tend to say "continuous threshold" now on here or strava, as like I said the other day, it gets people itchy saying "MP", and it underplays the effort level involved. 
    But due to Moz's training, I'll always think of it as the latter.

    And it's just a zone that's proven to be very effective, tasty enough at 15secs or so slower than HMP, but then ramps up over a few weeks.

    If I was training for a marathon, I dare say a 10-12miler in my "steady" range as today, would be a very solid run.
    But as a non marathoner, 7-8 is probably plenty.

    In the same way that a 14-16 would be my max long run for a half, but you'd obvs need a lore more for a marathon.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I have found a mid-week ten miler in the MP effort zone a very effective in the run up to a half, especially when combined with a decent length tempo of 5-6M at HM pace elsewhere in the week.

  • Bloody hell SG, you must be a good typist to have the will to write so much. I get too fed up with all my typos.

    Can't imagine doing a Sunday xc league, stuck in my ways with a Saturday race, few pints and a long run the next day ;) We have a stand alone XC race near here - The Ampthill Trophy. Pretty good standard although I was lucky enough to win it once. Good luck with the half, those doing it - i'll be on the HS1 to Ashford to the southern vets final - 3,000 and 1500m. Looks like i'll be doing the Eastern vets final on 22/9 rather than the southern relays too.

    Luton last night on the track, 8 x 600 off 75 or so - got let off 2 reps because of weekend racing. First one 1.50 and steadily got them down to 1.43, generally by easing off a bit and going through 200 in 35 rather than 33.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    5-6m at HMP is one hell of a boot in a single. I've definitely only ever done that in 2 or 3m sections.

    The time I realised there was some magic to the Moz approach and zones, was when I did probably the peak session pre Half once, of 14miles, with 8 easy to steady, and then 3m MP and 3m HMP.
    The HMP averaged at 5.57, andthe next weekend I averaged 5.57 in the HM race.

    Although I'm certainly not dreaming of replicating that sesh anytime too soon :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Bloody hell SG, you must be a good typist to have the will to write so much. I get too fed up with all my typos.

    When it's thumbing it out on a phone, I have a lot less patience, trust me :D

    Although patience and desire are funny measurables - your desire to turn out so often, all year round is truly astounding! I certainly have times the last thing I want to do is race!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    PS, on finishing my 10 this morn, I picked my phone up and saw
    THREE
    of those "uh-oh...some douche has nicked your seg" type strava messages.

    This shimmering twat had forgotten to turn his watch to cycle, so was claiming a 5miler, with a middle 3 miles at 4.36-4.36-4.33
    ;D

    To show how solid one of my efforts is, he'd only taken 3seconds off, on a bike, for a half mile seg!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    Hope you flagged him 

    Must admit, it is a very long time since I've done a 5-6 miler at HMP session. Probably not since my HM PB  :p  

    It is easier if you have a slower HM pace mind  :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Well, I could do it at someone else's pace ;)

    For my pace I would deffo need a track.
    Or a race ;)

    4miles this afternoon, for a 56m Mon to Fri.

    See ya sunday!!
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Looks like i'll be doing the Eastern vets final on 22/9 rather than the southern relays too.


    Ah! Hopefully this is the kind of thing that will finally convince Ben to shift his allegiance to the mighty RRR!  I will be sure to use it to my advantage.
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