Sub 3

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  • It's filthy here too sj with lots of flooding - think I'm going to make it a non running day!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Wall to wall sun here today I'm afraid SJ.  Sounds very soggy back home.
    8-9 hours sleep for the last few nights so I guess I needed it!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Benefits of a reveres taper mean ive taken the dog for a walk, run 6m and am back in time for the rugby.

    6m av 8.08, thats smashing it along pace during a recovery run.

    Wardi  - sounds great.
  • Make the most Wardi! I am so pleased we aren't racing today...........

    Interesting, my recovery HR has me running around 7.40s TR.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    LMH - 7.49s is a tough pace for me, im usually more 8.30ish. Once you are training with more black and white your recovery paces might slow a bit.
  • Not if I base it on HR TR as that pace is at an average of up 75% of MHR.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Yes I understand, HR sets the effort, so im saying the variable (on any given day) becomes the pace that HR results in., which might vary depending upon the harder runs that the recovery is built around.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Oof! Partly mud bath and partly water bath (think past halfway up your shins in places!).  Started too conservatively for a 3km race, but picked up at the end and thanks to my faster team mates am now FV35 national champion :)
  • Yay congrats Joolska. A win is a win! Enjoy the glory while you can :) 
  • Well in Joolska. Congrats. 

    I might trouble 30+miles of 5 running days this week :)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Yay, well done jools. Thats a special medal to win.

    Menn - good for you, nice to see.

    Time for a few beers, no racing maras this weekend !
  • Enjoy the beers TR

    Had a shoe night and opted for the UA Hovr Sonic 2 ahead of the HOKAs. Anyone got any experience of them? The reviews seem to think they are pretty good on cushioning without being sofas. 
  • Hi everyone

    Should re-introduce myself. Long time runner, couple of sub 3s either side of age 40 with previous of PB of 2.55 back in 2001. Lost count of number of marathons in the 3-4 hour range. By my early 50s had settled into getting GFAs on back of comfortable training and hung around a bit on the sub 3.15 thread under the user name LvSD - long very slow distance.

    In 2017 I met an ace sports psychologist who suggested I vacate my comfort zone. Kids now left home/uni, end of career on the horizon, I thought give it a go; get a coach, work with the psych, diet, S&C etc. Experiment to see if I could get back under 3 hours, although at my age (55 then) I doubted it would be physically possible for me.

    After a few months I ran 3.08 at Chester which surprisingly qualified me for the England Age Group Masters thing. All really jolly and motivating, was delighted the next year, 2018, to do 2.57 there. Not a PB but age-graded by a long way my best ever marathon.

    Last winter/spring struggled a bit with the programme mostly due to work pressure and house building work. At London this year headed off at <3 pace, started flaking out just after halfway and finished 3.14. All a real slog, no fun and confidence dented.

    Went to York last weekend with sub 3 genuinely a vague optimistic daydream. Had changed a few things, but untapered shorter races suggested about 3.05.

    Felt good in the first half which at 1.23.40ish was in itself a PB. Too fast, waited for the slump to come as it had at London. Tried to stave off the crash by keeping as many miles as possible as <3 pace hoping I might have enough buffer at the end.

    Some days it gives unaccountably badly, just sometimes the reverse happens. The crash didn’t come and was disorientated by unfamiliar splits in the last few miles. Over the years, I tend to start projecting finishing times from about mile 21 but my tired brain wasn’t really recognising the numbers.

    Finished in 2.50.31, a PB of nearly 5 mins after 18 years and first time over 85% age graded....and first time in 25 years running have finished a race with the main emotion just amazement.

    Missed out on requalifying for England Masters by 4 seconds but tbh climbing the age group in late 50s it gets harder: and the super shoes of course worth a few minutes. Even so, still very happy.

    So...gone from long very slow distance in the 3.15 thread a few years ago, saying hello to you guys as RAtDotL - Rage Against the Dying of the Light. Very pleased to be with you....
  • Congratulations Joolska.

    Hope you and Katie have a good time in Frankfurt Joe.

    Hi RAt. We don't believe older has to mean slower here  :)
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Good stuff RAt

    6m easy here, will start to ease it up a bit morr this week.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    RAt.. great time for a senior gent!  I have no idea how those qualifying times are calculated.  I was told you had to finish in the top 5, elsewhere I heard you just had to beat 'time X' for your age group!
    I hear Katie/Joe did very well in Frankfurt, judging by the results of others it was a good day for it.
    Jools.. great mudlarking and congrats on the trophy., good confidence boost too.
    My first run since Tuesday this morning, 4.6 miles up and down the seafront at Sliema.  About 30 mins later a big storm ensued with thunder, lightning and heavy rain causing part flooded roads.  3 hours later everything calmed down and the sun came out again!
    LMH.. I'm trying my best to fatten up as you recommended  :p
  • Little M.iss HappyLittle M.iss Happy ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Hope you're enjoying the break Wardi - I'm looking forward to mine.

    I've just read your blog Joolska - if I'd have known you were at Long Eaton I'd have come and supported - it's only about four miles away!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    It was not weather to be out in, LMH, although it would have been nice to meet you in real life!

    15 very steady ones today on grizzly legs. It's also my sub 3 anniversary :)
  • Fantastic jools. The course doesn't sound like a lot of fun but hey, you won!  And happy anniversary.  Prompted me to look up when mine is - October 12th 2003, at the now defunct Kingston marathon.  Finished 6th, Paul Sinton-Hewitt was 3rd, and DanA is in the results as well.

    After comments from others I had to look up the Frankfurt results.  Joe & Katie didn't do too badly, did they?

    Welcome RAt.  Great run at York - sometimes, as you say, the work pays off and it just happens.  85% WAVA is a great score, not many (LMH aside) achieve that.  What's next for you?

    I think I'm ready for NY, but I'm not sure what to expect on the day.  Some training has been great, some indifferent, and with the first mile basically being a climb up the bridge I can't rely on even pace early on to set the tone as usual.  I'd like to be inside 2:45 with a nice M50 placing, worst case inside the 2:49 I ran in Chicago last year, best case something closer to the 2:40 from VLM in April.  But conditions there were perfect, I know the course like the back of my hand and I thought 2:45 would be a stretch that day.  So I really don't know.  Enjoy it and have fun should be the main aim - I'm sure I told myself at the start of the year that VLM would be the last one I took seriously!


  • PadamsPadams ✭✭✭
    LMH - when I used to use HR (occasionally), I aimed for 70% for recovery. 75% sounds a bit high to me for recovery?

    TR - I went sub-2:30 using that P&D schedule too. Some of it was pretty tough but seemed to work.

    Jools - congratulations, that's awesome. Don't forget that the slowest runner in the team is the most important!

    RAt - fantastic! Enjoy that feeling of surprise, it doesn't happen very often (only once for me in 15 years of running).

    CD - you know by now how a marathon should feel, I'm sure it will be fine. Anything near 2:40 in NY would be very impressive as I thought the course is probably a few minutes slower than ideal?

    Looks like Frankfurt went well for Katie (and Joe managed to keep up!).

    Parkrun on Saturday - went down to the faster St Albans course. On Friday I'd taken a couple of work mates (non-runners) for a lunchtime interval session in the park - only did about 4M but pushed too hard trying to catch them (doing a longer loop than them so that we finished each loop roughly together), so my legs were surprising sore on Saturday. Result for parkrun was 16:49 so not great, also not helped by not doing a warm-up and these days my left achilles is really sore for at least a mile or so on every run. It's also got a visible bulge so not sure what's going on with it, but it seems OK once I'm warmed up and doesn't seem to get better with rest anyway.

    Sunday was much better - 2M with the dog, then 10 and a bit on my own, averaging around 6:50s once I'd dropped the dog home and felt comfortable.
  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Wardi - Enjoy running in the sunshine.  Not envious at all.
    Joolska
    - Woof, national champion, that sounds pretty good. Very decent. 
    RaT - Welcome back. Interesting with the psychologists advice. Thats a great performance at York, must have been something with the miles ticking past knowing a big PB on the cards.  Only happened with me once and that was a 3 not 5 minute PB. 
    CD -   Good luck in NY, hope you run a good one closer to your London performance (Wava 90+?) As you say it will be a great experience. On my bucket list.  
    Padams - That's a good and varied few days of pacy running.   I would investigate that achilles and see whats happening there. 
    Back running post-lurgy but a rugby-affected weekend, so just 8m y'day but as on leave this afternoon a LSR on the SWCP beckons.  
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Hope you go well CD, i also thought NY would be a slower course?

    Padams - another P and D endorsement, i have just treated myself to an edition 3.

    OO - long run sounds nice.

    I spent some time tracking joe and katie, was quite exciting. I was also tracking Paul Navesy who trains in a south coast elite group,  only fair seeing as he was watching us all at Abo.

    Clocks have gone back, turned the heating on indoors yday and it will be dark for my commute run home later. So its winter time i guess. Lets hope a sub 255 can motivate me as much through the winter as a 3.01 did, i dont think it will but as long as it gets me out there.
  • Afternoon all - thanks for the notes and well wishes!

    Just awaiting our flight back from Frankfurt, so had a little read back and thought I’d give you the low down on the day.

    Executive summary, we oh so nearly had another member of the club, but came up just short in the last 7km. Final time 3:01:10 which is a 9 minute PB, and definitely better than expected.

    Conditions we’re pretty good; cool, slightly damp but with a fairly strong breeze - luckily I’m a good windbreak.

    The plan/goal this year was never sub-3, it was just go as fast as possible. Despite it looking like we were running to pace in the early stages, we were letting her heart rate and effort level dictate the speed.

    Rather worryingly she turned to me at mile 4 and told me she thought her foot was broken (!!!). What am I meant to say to that?!

    We carried on, now having formed an unintended sub-3 bus, with lots around realising I was acting as a pacer. Things were going rather well, and we hit halfway in 1:30:01 and I felt her starting to believe it could be on.

    Fastest 5km of the race between 20-25km but feeling good and already charging through the field and passing those that had gone out too eagerly.

    30km passed and I’m using all the motivational tricks, and we’re still on pace. We got to 35km with just 20 seconds in hand, but things had started to really hurt and I could tell she was suffering massively.

    Super proud of the way she ground out those last 30 mins, as we barely slowed (slowest mile - 7:15 - mile 25), but it was enough to see the dream slip away, but it’ll happen another day.

    Tears at the end - she was made up, had trained so hard and really deserved what she got. In my opinion she couldn’t have run a second faster and was completely spent at the end.

    We’re off to A&E when we land to confirm re; the foot, but she can’t walk at all. Absolute hero.

    On a personal level, really happy with the way my fitness is coming back. 3 hr pace felt comfortable and HR was low and legs felt great. May have to run with her next year in London...
  • Great stuff Joe, shame you guys couldn't get the sub 3 but having missed out by a couple of mins myself in April I took the positives that it was still a big PB and that I now had extra motivation to get out training again to get the job done.

    RAt - really impressive times and age gradings. The talk of psychologists really caught my eye. I suspect for amateurs the power of having a psychologist onside is quite a big thing in both training and racing. Will be good to watch your progress.

    My weekend feels like a real win even if the mileage was down. I had planned to do my 20 miler on Saturday morning while the rugby was on, not because i don't appreciate the rugby but just because there didn't seem a better time to do it. But I woke up slightly late and the weather was AWFUL so had to settle for 9k with 6k at 4 min/kms. Halloween party Saturday night so getting the long run in on Sunday was always going to be a push. I reckon I only managed about 3 hours sleep so, even though the weather was pretty much perfect I settled for just getting out and running 4.5 miles. Not ideal training but again it was a small win for head over heart. So I had no choice today but to do 20 miles and managed it in 2:32. Average heart rate pretty comfortable and legs seemingly handling it too. I know that bad things can happen after 20 miles but I did feel like i'd have got through the next few miles just fine. It's my 3rd quickest time through 30km since I've been using Strava (2 years?) so I'm really pleased with that!
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    JoeB: great run, but I hope Katie's foot is ok, i.e. best case scenario of soft tissue damage which will resolve soon rather than a break.  She must be one gutsy runner with a pain threshold beyond mine to have run through that!  
  • A fantastic PB for Katie Joe. Hope her foot is ok. A negative split was always going to be a bit of an ask though wasn't it? I don't tend to fade much would but like a couple of minutes in hand at half way.

    You are sounding very positive rj.

    You'll have to let me know if the old codger new bit is worth the investment TR.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Joe - well done to Katie, it was an exciting track, the tracker was predicting sub3 for a long time.

    LMH - i bet that chapter simply says add more rest and recovery as needed. I wanted the latest schedules, and theres info on tweaks eg longer long runs, build up races etc......probably nothing on magic shoes this edition though.

    10m commute done.
  • Nice work Joe and Katie of course. Cracking run

    I guess there will be a mention of Hill work in there too TR/LMH.  I think he's commented previously about it being missing from the previous 2 editions.

    Welcome RAt - Impressive sir.  Theres quite a few of us vets in here now
  • That's one very broken middle toe. No idea how she did it - felt it go at 4km in, thought it might just be cramp or something! Crutches and a boot now, no running for a while..

    Taking it well, hard to say if it could've been the different between sub 3..  ;)


  • Stone me Joe, that's impressive - both the break, and managing to run 22 miles on it.  Good time to have some time off running though, she'll be back stronger for VLM.  I seem to remember padams and marigold finishing London with various bits broken, so she's in good company.

    TR/padams - yes, NY is slower than VLM, so I won't be getting over-ambitious.  It would be nice to keep inside the Chicago time though, and maybe complete the set in Tokyo all below 2:50.
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