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P&D Autumn Marathon 2019
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That's a solid 15M Hamo.
It's just like a nasty graze across the whole front of the big toe, it's bandaged up so you're safe from pics just yet SQ.
Steady 5M along the canal at lunch backed up with a hilly 11K after work.
Jools - yes and no. Some helpful bits, but felt a lot like jumping through hoops and ticking boxes rather than developing skills. Got to start somewhere though and gives more credibility if you're offering 1-2-1 coaching which I currently am...
Swim this morning, easy run after work.
Great analysis of the “cheat” shoes. Cheers AWC. No disrespect to the man but I already felt Kipchoge’s achievement was tainted, now I’m sure of it. Glad they brought up the Pistorius ruling too as the IAAF’s refusal to do anything about the 4% struck me as inconsistent straight away. Could it have anything to do with Coe’s long association with Nike? Very interesting about the leg length & running economy correlation hence the growing stack of these clown shoes.
Cycle commute & a lunchtime track session today. 6x100m strides to open the legs up then 6x400m off 100m walk. Toe still rubbing & painful. Swimming tonight so the bandage came off. Apologies to those perusing this over breakfast/lunch
SQ...Yea, i perversely enjoy that kind of weather. Nice lunch session, esp off a bad nights kip.
Jools...Wow, that a shocking looking toe. Fair play to you for not only running on it, but knocking out intervals too, looks wile sore.
AWC...I have a pair, and if i'm honest, they just feel like a fast shoe when you are wearing them if that makes sense, placebo or scientific, its a nice feeling. The next %s especially feel quite springy at times, but just feel class when you are running at speed. Morally, i haven't really though about it to be fair, but it is noticeable that at the start line of any (i was going to say major, but minor runs too) event the vast majority of people are wearing a version of them.
6 mile recovery yesterday, followed up by a 13M MLR this morning. Debating Parkrun tomorrow, but think i might skip it, as the legs feel a bit tired and don't wanna push my luck.
Joe - building nicely for Valencia, am sure you’ll have a great day out.
Hamo - that’s a rapid return and some nice running.
AWC - as Hamo said they are bouncier shoes but for me the benefit is not so much making you faster, rather you feel less tired towards the end of the race. Other brands are bringing out their version of foam+plate shoes now so I suppose the field is being levelled to some degree.
A week of all easy runs, may try something a bit faster this weekend but there has been too much smoke haze here in Sydney to run much outside. Also hard to get motivated without anything on the horizon
The shoe chat - I've got the 4%'s and was bought a pair of next %s for my birthday (although quite ludicrously I probably won't crack them out the box until next summer). I think the biggest benefit is the quicker recovery after wearing them, although undoubtedly they are making people run faster - no question. My view is, as long as they are accessible to everyone to buy in shops, I think it's ok.
Putting it on the line here so I have to be held accountable. Going for it at parkrun tomorrow. Legs fatigued so it won't be optimal, but will throw the kitchen sink at it. 17:40 is my best time in the last 24 months, would be thrilled with 17:45 or thereabouts.
TR - thanks. Unfortunately SL wasn’t there, his course record remains though, different class.
SQ - well done on getting out and doing it, bound to be a bit slower if you’re not chasing RSR up the hills😀.
Hamo - sounds like you are back in the groove. Agreed, we are in 2 gloves territory, although it seems to have warmed up a bit.
Jools - I’ve always wondered what it looks like under a nail......not. Yes, I did the WW50 in 2016 and each year since, still chasing the sub 9, just waiting for Nike to bring out a cheat trail shoe🤣
John - those fires are on the news a fair bit over here, terrible. Hope you can do something.
AWC - I’ve started listening to the podcast but not finished yet. I was in two minds about them last spring. I now reason that if they are available to all and within the rules then no problems, just evolution, compare bike technology. Interestingly I set my half Pb in a pair of Adidas racing flats and the Nike assisted marathon Pb lines up in terms of VDOT calculation. I’m sure they are worth something but I trained hard, lost weight, carb loaded, took beet shots so after all that it’s difficult to quantify the effect. I would say, when someone has done everything else, get them,but get them in a sale !
I have avoided the shoes up until now as after some injuries i wanted to get back to a decent (for me) level without them. They do mess with my moral compass a bit, as i see it as mechanical doping. There are strict rules on bike wheels, and they stopped the swim skin suits, so maybe some rules will kick in. But they cant take the shoes back from the masses now, and other manufacturers are developing their own. So i will get some for 2020. There were loads on the road at Abo and Gosport, some ahead of me and some behind. I used to think i had to be good enough to justify them. I see plenty of sub elites in them and wonder how their existing sponsorship deals go along with the Nikes.
Jools - I've beaten up my feet a fair bit in the past (blisters, punctures through the shoe, lost toenails) but nothing like that. That's horror movie level.
Joe - Well done on the coaching. Just the first step I imagine. Like Macca says, it seems a good fit for you. I liked your session on tired legs - if done right I've found they help me enormously.
With respect to the shoes, I'm not convinced it's made that much difference to Kipchoge. He ran 2:03:05 London 2016 without and 2:02:37 London 2019. I know it's only 2 races but I think both had good conditions and in both he was pushed most of the way by competitors. Hard to know really but I would guess that by 2019 Kipchoge was a better runner than in 2016. I think yes they make a difference, but automatically taking off 2 minutes as they suggested in the podcast might be a stretch. Hard to compare in Berlin as his best pre-vaporfly time was 2:04:00 but he ran most of the way with his insoles half way out of his shoes, flapping around his ankles.
I've got the 4%s. I don't feel any faster in them but I've run big half and marathon PBs since getting them. Having said that, the half was the first time I've been properly fit on a reasonably fast course and my marathon prep was far better than I've done previously, so it's hard to separate the effect of the shoes.
If I could chose, I'd probably wish they were never invented. I think the thing lots of people love about running is the simplicity and that you don't have to worry about technology, like you do in cycling, and these shoes seem a threat to that. While I do love the simplicity of running, I don't feel like the shoes change that for me at all. I can see it might be different for professionals.
I do also worry that Nike has too much influence over athletics - dodgy ol' Seb Coe with a building named after him on the Nike campus in Oregon. Despite not liking Nike, the whole shoe technology issue doesn't actually bother me. If you feel good running in the shoes go for it I say.
I wore the Zoom Fly on Sunday at Gosport and found the carbon plate acted differently on the tarmac compared to extra bounce on concrete. i`d love to try a pair of the next % but think I need to be a bit closer to 2:45 to deserve them. A couple of clubmates were trying to encourage me on Sunday by shouting out that i needed to overtake the bloke ahead in the green shoes.
I`m going to have my annual autumn visit to Southampton parkrun tomorrow to to judge my 5k fitness, haven`t had a proper blast for a couple of months.
TR, Stubbington should be good for a tear-up I`ll actually have a proper taper for this one and if in good form will be aiming for something beginning with 36. PB is 37:14
Millsy - nice. My quicker 10k days are probably gone (35.5X), but I'll attach my elastic to you and try to keep up. If i can run quicker at 10k, then i can run quicker at hm, if i can run quicker at hm........
Will give them a runout at Valencia next weekend. Target for which is now upper 2:50s after a torrid autumn training block - putting up a couple of blank weeks recently. This was all influenced by a pretty rough time on the home front. Our 2yo found himself in intensive care for a week at one point. He’s ok now thankfully but running has been a distant last in priorities in 2019.
My mate who lives in Valencia got us tickets for Valencia Villarreal on Saturday night, so I’m looking forward to that.
Joe - from what I’m seeing you’re looking at a possible 2:45ish (?) so I’ll leave you to it. I won’t be much help. And I’m not sure the 4%s will either... I’m a stone heavier than last year’s 2:45 in Berlin, too. I’m in the 2:30-2:49 wave so maybe see you in there. Would be keen for a beer afterwards.
Hope all parkrunners smashed it this morning.
4% are £146 on nike wesite. I made the purchase.
Joe...Hope the parkrun went well for you, fair play on the accountability.
Millsy...Same sentiments as for Joe, hope the parkrun went well.
Jools...Nice progressive treadmill run, and again, hope the parkrun treated you well.
HA77...I'd agree with all you said there about the morals of the magic shoes for our level,, hence why i haven't gave it much though at all, they aren't harming anyone really.
DCT...Sorry to hear of your tough time, although it's great to hear that your 2 year old is OK. All the best for Valencia, just enjoy it.
TR...Good weekend of running, and congrats on the new purchase. I hope, and am sure you'll love them.
I skipped parkrun on Saturday, opting instead for a 10 miler with 2x(8x 100 strides) and finishing the last 2 miles at roughly Tempo pace. This was backed up by a 22 miler down the towpath on Sunday morning in bang on 2 and a half hours. I left the house at 6am on Sunday, and ran down a brilliantly dark and peaceful tow path, with not even a dog on it, was bliss. Obligatory junior parkrun with my 4 year old followed, and brought my weekly total to 90, so happy to be back at my usual mileage and the ankle seems to be completely healed.
Quieter week this week, in anticipation of the planned 10k race on Saturday, so a 6 mile recovery run was the order of today, this morning.
good luck to those racing in Valencia, it’s definitely going on my to-do list.
My parkrun time wasn’t quite where I’d hoped to be. Same course last year I did 18:04 but on Saturday could only muster 18:13 hopefully it’s just due to tired legs from all the racing and higher mileage weeks than compared to last year.
Did a muddy social 19 miles with a few club members yesterday where shoe chat was involved. The chap who’s house we went back to for tea and flapjacks has just purchased the next % so I got to try them on, they did feel fast.
Need to work out my Autumn 2020 plan ASAP, undecided on whether to do the Autumn 100 or go back to the Chiltern Wonderland 50.
Big weekend Hamo, where's the 10km?
TR - What we building towards now, London?
dct - sorry to hear training hasn't been going brilliantly, but more importantly hope the little one is ok. Still unsure what kind of shape I'm in, 2:45-2:50 seems achievable but you never know. Loads of us heading for drinks after, you should definitely join.
I finally feel like things are pointing upwards. No taper but a hard effort at Dulwich parkrun on Saturday. Really wasn't sure what to expect but was hoping for something south of 18 minutes. After a shoelace dilemma caused me to nearly miss the start (surprise surprise), I set off a bit too eagerly logging a 5:19 opening mile.
There was no way I was going to run 16:xx but I managed to fight off any massive fade, with 5:35 and 5:37 leaving me with an OT of 17:31. My fastest time for over 2 years and I'm convinced there should be plenty more to come. Annoyingly my watch measured it at 5.15km, so I thought I was on for quicker, but you can never trust your watch with these things. That time was good enough for 22nd (!) with the winner logging a casual 14:00 - should've dipped at the line.
Backed that up with a pretty tough 90 min bike session on the Sunday followed by a progressive run off the bike for an hour, which actually felt great.
Not expecting miracles in Valencia, but this has encouraged me to give it a good effort there.
DCT - good to hear the young un is ok. Hope you and Joe enjoy the weekend.
Some decent parkrun’s their Joe, Millsy and Jools. Joe - 21 runners sub 17:30 sounds like very fast field.
Hamo - impressive weekend double, sounds like the injury is behind you.
A slightly underwhelming (for the effort) park run for me Saturday so I was quite pleased to come down with a cold Sunday. A tick over week this, then the 18 week plan starts Monday, can’t wait.
Millsy - pretty sharp, I'll have to get my legs spinning to keep up at stubby.
Joe - good to see you sharpening up ready for Valencia, your mojo is just in time. Vlm next big race for me, but hopjng to ho sub 80 at worthing or fleet. Havnt been under 80 for a few years, but its doable given recent performances.
Jools - tough weekend there !
Macca - ill be keeping them for racing in too. Im going to do the 18week plan for vlm, which gives me 4 weeks to fill, so im doing weeks 1 to 4 and will then start again. Hopefully it gives me a buffer for any illness, injury or taperng for build up races.
mlr monday was back, with a wet 12m tonight.
10 inc LT 4 today. 4m pretty much as hard as possible on a windy day only came in at av 6.33, not much quicker than Abo. But i guess its the effort that counts.