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P&D Autumn Marathon 2019
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Anyway enough shoe chat & back to the running. Did Sunday's missed LSR yesterday 20K of forest fire trail with a fair bit of climbing too then today an easy 10K along the canal backed up with a repeat of Thursday's 6K track session: 8x100m strides & 6x400m off 100m walk.
The toe is still pretty bad but definitely improving.
Glad to hear the toe is healing up, Jooligan. That image has been haunting me for the best part of a week.
The little guy is in good shape now, thanks all.
7 miles last night with a couple of efforts as P&D suggests. Another 7 after work tonight then Loftus Road for QPR Forest.
Joe...The 10k is in Belfast, it is always the biggest/fastest field of the year (all the big boys come out to play for this one) so hoping to hang onto the back of a group and see how much i can get pulled round. Glad you are feeling good again, class parkrun time, bound to instill confidence. Good luck with Valencia, just remember to double knot the laces
Jools...Nice parkrun, esp after a bad sleep, though the cider and curry sounds nice
Macca...Are you doing the 18 week plan for London? Mine doesn't start until 16th of December (I'm doubling up on the first week to allow for a more casual approach to the Christmas week). Or have i badly miscounted?
TR...Good idea with a 4 week buffer. Nice MLR and LT runs, definitely the effort that counts.
AWC...I'd agree with SQ, there is no need to break those shoes in, the magic comes straight out of the box.
SQ...Plant the seeds early, she'll love it. Sell her on the free wristbands (or bracelets
DCT...glad to hear. Nice efforts, enjoy the football.
7 mile easy yesterday morning, was followed up with a turn out at a club session for the first time in a while (if i'm honest i only went as my biggest little lady wanted to go
11M MLR this morning, I didn't push the pace at all as the legs where feeling a bit tired, so i'm sure they'll be glad of Thurdsay and Fridays planned recovery runs
I'm just waiting patiently now on the London Marathon Championship entries opening at 10 this morning, before e i get all giddy and feel 'big time'
Oh, and the magic shoes are now £102 on Nike, with the discount code 'ADDON30', incase AWC wants to buy a few more
Hamo - good luck for the weekend then, go hard or go home!
Got my champs entry in this morning. Always super grateful to be able to enter year after year, and I can't see it ever being an opportunity I'll pass up, knowing how many people I know would give a lot to get a place!
For all those worrying about shoe laces, stand down, no wider issue. The problem on saturday was, I'd unthreaded them post frankfurt, and realised as I went to put them on that the ends were too frayed to go back through the eye holes. Elastic laces are back on, so should be no issues. Famous last words.
Not going for much of a drastic taper, with 3km in the pool yesterday morning, a hard bike session last night and 12 x 1 min hard, 1 min steady this morning. Easing back now though, will see what the weekend brings.
AWC - just my thoughts on the Mara/ultra training - P&D is not optimum ultra training but is good enough to prepare for both distances. with the 15m midweek runs there’s plenty of running on tired legs, overall volume is good on the higher mileage plans and the important speedwork is also there. I like the notion that increasing your top end speed increases your forever pace with the caveat that 5k training on its own won’t cut it. If as you say, you can slip in some of those long steady runs you’ll be in great shape, all imho of course.
Back to shoes, what sort of mileage do people get out of the zoom flys used as a daily training shoe ? Adidas seem to have discontinued/rebranded my daily and these are cheaper.
DCT, Joe - Good luck for Valencia. Really wish I was there, but at the same time happy I didn't fork out for flights and accommodation before the injury. It's in a queue of marathons I have unfinished business with along with Manchester and Brighton, so may take a while to get round to it
AWC - If you fancy any 9 minute miling around Battersea park tomorrow let me know, it's all I can manage at the moment
Hamo - looks like you're back into it nicely after the ankle injury. Good luck for the 10K on Saturday.
Jooligan - Thanks for making me nearly throw up
SQ - Very impressive keeping up the mileage. Also, you were at some point 15st!? I'm actually shocked.
John - Hope everything is ok with the fires. I enjoyed your NYC marathon write up and photos.
Millsy, TR - belated congrats on the half marathons, good places to be in if you're concentrating on Spring marathons
HA - I think my thoughts line up very close to yours regarding the shoes. I like running for its simplicity and inclusivity and £240 shoes seem to go against that. Also, Nike's power and their reaction to the Salazar findings leaves a bad taste. That said, I don't think it's particularly a moral question and if I get into shape to trouble a GFA time then I'll be purchasing a pair to get me over the line. Although at a size 12 I'm gutted I can't take advantage when they're seriously discounted
I've had a couple of weeks of 'solid' training, although my fitness is in tatters. Currently at 4 days a week and around 25 miles, hoping to build to 45 and 6 days a week by the start of the plan for London. After my issues in the last 2 build ups I've decided to go with the 55-70 plan in a hope to get to the start line injury free. You all have permission to remind me of this if I start getting stupid and add lots of miles mid plan.
Macca - you can get saucony ride iso for around 50 at the mo. I can get 700ish out of a pair, they are neutral and not too heavy. I did Abo and Gosport in them. I can get more miles out of a pair of nimbus but they cost more like 90ish. No idea on zoom. I have a pair of Peg 35 that cost 60ish and have around 700m on them, but they wont last too much longer.
Hamo - good for you on your champs place.
P and D said 6+5 double for today, i dont want to do doubles, so will do anywhere between the daily min and max depending upon available time and energy, i did the full 11 today.
Bushfires still going on but Sydney seems to have escaped for now. Lots of smoke haze and warnings last week, with one of the days having worse air pollution than Delhi! The school just 2 streets away was closed as well because it's too close to a national park. Got my wife worried to the extent that she started packing an emergency bag and digging out the kids birth certificates, wills, etc.
Good luck to Joe, Hamo and others racing this weekend. Hard to believe that some of you are already into P&D, bring on the MLRs and LT runs!
Managed to sort out my races for next year as well. Will be running a trail ultra in March (Six Foot Track), apparently it's the most competitive trail race in Oz as it's very runnable despite 2000m elevation so attracts a lot of road runners. May also use P&D for that but include plenty of hill reps. Also got into Berlin but have to wait on whether the wife gives the OK for a family holiday, I suspect she won't let me go solo again for that. Tossing up whether to run Gold Coast in early July, maybe too close to Berlin for a full but a fast half could be on the cards.
dct - glad to hear your boy is ok. Scary. Good luck in Valencia.
Joe - good luck to you too. You seem to be back into some sort of form so could be better than expected. How's Katie's foot coming along?
Hammo - expecting another cracking time in the 10k. Good luck.
SQ - agree with Joe that you're probably in better shape than you think. Some consistent training, well done.
John - 6ft track should be awesome. That's one I've always thought I should run.
HPR - good to see you getting back into it. Good plan to aim for consistency over big mileage.
Jools - glad the toe is somewhat better, although I'd struggle to think how it could be worse. Maybe some maggots crawling around in there. A few decent runs there, good stuff.
Good work to people starting the Spring plan. I've just put in my champs entry for London but not sure the motivation is there to train properly. I'm enjoying running at the moment and doing alright getting in 40-50 miles per week but really can't be bothered getting up in the dark like I did this time last year. We'll see how it comes along. I think I'll be fit enough to run a decent race but nowhere near PB shape.
GA inc 10 x strides today, so i included 10min of 30s/30s which should do the job.
AWC...Nice run commutes. That's some collection of the 4%s you have now
Joe...You are definitely not doing a standard taper
Macca...Ah, makes sense now, glad my maths skills aren't as bad as i thought
HPR...Building it back up slowly is the best way to go about it. Your fitness will come back quicker than you think.
TR...It'll be interesting to see how you go following the P&D plan, i expect very very well. Nice 11 and strides.
John...I'm sure your wife is worried, and understandably so, not good. Congrats on getting into Berlin.
HA77...Congrats on the champs place. Shame about the motivation, I hope and I'm sure it'll come back sooner rather than later. You need it, as you say, for the early morning, and the painful runs.
I went against the crowd a bit, and got myself a new pair of the zoom fly flyknits, and the kids a pair of pegasus 36's each in the nike sale yesterday. I just couldn't justify a pair of the 4%s (no matter how cheap) when i have a pair already, and the next %s brand new in the box all tucked up nicely waiting for London.
7 recovery miles this morning.
Good to see you getting the school sessions in again, Jools.
Nice one, hamo. Wasn’t aware of the wristbands for different achievements. Ease right back tomorrow and I reckon you’ve got a hell of a 10k in you. The recent rest during ankle woes will help. Best of luck. So what kind of running will you use the zoom flys for - general mileage, workouts?
Joe - I totally get wanting to save the shoes for when you feel truly on it. The mental game plan is important. Best of luck in Valencia. Go hard and enjoy!
P&D set you up brilliantly early this year, Macca. Although I do remember a few sneaky training marathons in there! I’d be interested to know about zoom flys to.
HPR - yes! Beast mode during rugby days. Great to see you building up again.
You’re up and running already, TR?! No rest for the wicked. Great to see you so motivated. 30/30 should be fine, but I actually think they’re a bit different to strides with much more recovery. You could stress the system a bit more that way, rather than the speed but no stress that strides provide. Just my tuppence.
JohnOz I heard the Rebels discussed a fair bit on the Inside Running Podcast from your homeland. Sound great. Wouldn’t mind trying some out. Six ft sounds amazing.
HA it’ll come. Got to enjoy it.
5M recovery yesterday, 5M with 6 x 20/40 accelerations today. Looking forward to tomorrow conference with a cheeky diversion for the lunchtime race. I’ve plotted the route on my watch. 2.5M from conference to race start. Hoping I don’t get lost and waste loads of energy on the way there.
HA - when I first read your comment I thought you meant my wife was worried about me going to Berlin on my own... then I realised you meant the bushfires. **note to self: must remember there are more important things than running**
Anyway enough of the junior parkrun bumming up, I'll use the flyknits for all training runs really, general mileage, workouts, long runs etc. I've a pair of pegasus' that i use for recovery runs usually, as they are quite well cushioned, but usually just use the same shoe for all my training, until i need to upgrade, don't normally swap shoes around. I've used the zoom flys (non flyknit version) before for training as well, and they were very good, they were on offer in the outlet near me so got 2 pair for the price of 1, and they lasted well (at least 550 miles each), and were well cushioned and responsive... if any of that rambling helps you and Macca
All the very best for the 5k today, just don't get lost on the way there
John...She might be worried about you going to Berlin on your own too
6 mile very easy this morning with a few half hearted strides thrown in. Unfortunately, I have woke up with a sore throat and bunged head, so seem to be catching the cold that the kids have been struck with this week...just hope i can stave off the worst of it until after tomorrows race, and thankful its not the norovirus that is ravaging through the schools over here at the minute (schools have had to close and its headline news at the minute
Hamo - i bought a pair of flyknits recently for £60ish. Only used them for a couple of tempo runs before gosport. They seemed incredibly stiff to me, but then ive not used 4% yet. I think the idea is they prepare your legs in training for the race day 4% or next %. Not sure they'd feel ok during easy runs. See what you think.
6m easy peasy today.
30 weeks at an average of 12mpw is a long long time for deep unfitness to set in (a figure that would be under 9 if it wasn't for having "run" the SW50 and the Dublin Marathon.) >10% bodyweight increase. As slow as a slow thing. I am in almost exactly the same shape as I was 18 weeks before Newport 2019. This Sunday marks 18 weeks before Manchester 2020. Let's hope I can become a runner again!
hello, by the way. I thought I was going to be looking for a P&D Spring 2020 thread.
John - sounds like a really exciting schedule for next year. Saw your pic of those shoes - they look really nice.
HA - foot is healing slowly. Still in a boot, but no pain now, so hopefully well on the way to be mended. Follow up x-ray next Friday. Look forward to seeing you at the posh toilets as per - I think you'll surprise yourself re; speed if you get back into some regular stuff from now.
SQ - sorry not going to make it across for today (now!), tied up at work. let us know how it goes.
Hamo - hope you fight off that cold and give it some proper beans tomorrow.
NE - Welcome back! You'll be back into the swing of things before you know it. Rather embarrassingly, I think they're waiting for me to run on Sunday before the new thread starts, but I don't think I'm going to have much to shout about.
Flying out tomorrow morning - weather looks lovely, up to 20 degrees on race day, but should only be 15 or so in the morning, so slightly warm but very manageable. Felt a bit weak and dazed on an easy run yesterday evening, but hoping it's just a one off thing and will pass.
I`ve managed to avoid purchasing any expensive shoes in the sales. I did however spend £240 on race entries for next autumn (CW50 and A100) so my 2019 calendar is complete.
Didn`t run on Tuesday or Wednesday due to work commitments but then felt awful after last night`s 6 miler and still feeling rough today. Will give XC a miss and hopefully start back next week. Maybe this points to the lacklustre parkrun.
John -I used to listen to Inside Running religiously every week, from the original Road to Berlin, but I've gone off podcasts in general in the past 6 months or so. It is a good one though. It's funny, Moose is the star (always find myself nodding in agreement to his advice) but I've heard a couple of special episodes with him hosting without the other 2 and it isn't that great. Still follow the guys on Strava.
Millsy - nice work on the ultra entries. Vaporflys don't work offroad anyway.
NE - I'd put on about 12% body weight over the summer. All coming off now. You'll be fine.
Hamo - fingers crossed the lurgy doesn't affect your race
SQ - I liked the Zantes but prefered Brooks Pureflow, light and cushioned but felt faster. Only problem is they get stones stuck in the sole but it didn't really bother me. Haven't found them on special again though.
Solid day for me. Easy 10 miles this morning then a hill session with the work group at lunch for a 17 mile day, which is big for me at the moment.
Best of luck in Valencia Joe.
I'm pretty sure 17M with a hill session would be a big day for anyone even on this thread HA. Keep it up & you'll be podiuming at the XC before the season's over
Puts the shoe cost into perspective Millsy. My entire 2019 racing budget was £387 for 32 races. Considerably less than 2018's £678 for 50
Hope the lurgy clears off allowing you a good crack at the 10K Hamo.
After my first 50M week in ages I've done it again - in just 5 days rather than 6 this time
Wednesday was a canal 6 & 5 double Thursday another double with the Canal 10K followed by a repeat of Tuesday's session. Significantly faster without the howling wind
Haha Joe - I was looking out for you, but had seen on Strava that you hadn’t felt great so thought you would be wise to rest up. Funny that you posted whilst the race was on. Massive good luck. I assume (hope) Katie won’t be completing the course on crutches/with a boot?
HA - I’d agree that Moose gives some sage advice. Good approach to training as well, knowing when to back it off. Thoroughly enjoyed listening to his build up to Doha as well. Some of his Aussie swearing cracks me up as well. This week’s delightful terminology to get over his disgust for running in the wind had me in stitches 😆.
St, Regents St isn’t the best lunchtime route. That said, Hyde Park was stunning 👌🏼
HA - big day there, good that you have folks to run with at work too.
SQ - pretty quick 5k there, bodes well for your 10k. Nice one on the Pegs, they are hard to find discounted, i got a pair for 70ish recently. 4% for 116 is a nargain too. I need to chase mine up, as they hsvnt arrived and the payments havnt been taken by Nike yet, even though they are shown as pending.
The point of doing P and D is thst i tjink the quslity work will do me good, esp tje LT and mp runs. Seeing as it hasnt properly started yet, i did the 16 inc 8mp today. The 8m averaged 6.26, but it was windy so hard to quanify and even out effort levels. Still, if i can keep doing the mp runs at that pace then operation sub255 should be on like donkey kong.
251 for Nov, another lowish month due to Abo and Gosport. 3156 for the year. Not sure I'll get 344 done in December to bring up 3500.
I phoned Nike, my orders were cancelled at their end for some reason. Nice of them to let me know ! I need to screenshot my confirmation emails and send it in to customer services, to see if i can get them to honour the cheapest order, if they have any left.
Through half in 1:22:00 and gritted out the second half with lots of mental to and fro’ as to why slowing down would/would not be a good idea. Happy with that as a way to close the year and a good platform to build from.
Saw dct in the pen before and had a quick chat - nice to meet you mate.
Full report to follow I’m sure - beers now though.
According to Strava, prior to the race I’d averaged about 23 mpw for the past month so just wanted to go under 3 yesterday. My longest run was a 20-miler 11 weeks ago. Three 18s thrown in and a 19 three weeks ago. Went out in my usual reckless way and went through half in 1:24. Second half was disgusting, but got to 16 and did some simple maths and figured 7 min miles would see me home. Backed off, got swallowed up and spat out the back of the 2:50 pacers and the 10-deep wall of runners in that group. Put in a 6:43 26th mile and 6:10 pace for the final 0.2 to pull up 2:54:53.
Probably could have just run steady 6:40s all the way and had a nice time but with hindsight I think what appeals to me most with marathon running is finding out where my limit is. Definitely discovered it yesterday. Awful year of running. Yesterday put me at 708 miles total. Over the next few weeks I’ll decide whether I give London a proper crack.
Had a pretty good night last night with mates and about 10 others from their club. Made me wonder whether joining a club might help with the general inconsistency of my running motivation.
dct, I held off joining a club for years but have really enjoyed the social side. Club runs have also helped with the monotony of some MLRs and long runs when you really didn`t fancy it. It also helps to have some friendly competition at races or to get a little pacing group together.
Millsy...Good luck with your plans for the new year, nice to have them all booked in, and as TR says, those races will get you out the door over Winter.
HA77...17 mile is a big day in anyone's book, esp with the hill work, fair play to ya.
Jools...Nice work on the back to back 50's. Hope the parkrun went well.
SQ...Excellent 5k, super time. I agree, and not just with London, i couldn't do city running every day, give me my quiet country lanes any day of the week.
TR...Not good, hope Nike honour their commitment and sort you out with the shoes. Excellent MP work, no wonder you needed the recovery run.
Joe...Absolutely class time in Valencia. Awesome, if you can knock that out when not 100%, you'll absolutely smash the next year when you get fully back on it.
DCT...Brilliant time for you too in Valencia, esp with the year/build up you've had. I'm with you, more fun in running 'balls out' (so to speak) from the start, than conservative pacing
The 10k i raced on Saturday was 3 laps of the Ormeau Park in Belfast, which worked well, as i can sometimes 'switch off' a bit mentally between 4-5 mile in a 10k and my pace can suffer. But, with it being 3 laps, it was handy broke down mentally, and i was able to stay on it, and push myself while counting down the laps down. I fell into a group of 4 after about a mile, and stayed with them until the end. 1 of the group i knew from previous races, and he would be quicker runner than me, but i felt good and thought i may as well hang on to this group, even if its a bit mad that i'm running at his pace, and see where i get to. In the end, he out kicked me over the last 400 metres and beat me by 3 seconds, but delighted with my time of 32.49. A new pb of 55 seconds, and i beat Tommy Hughes again, which is a nice scalp (He ran a new world record 10k time for a 55-59 year old on Saturday too, he is an amazing runner, defiantely listen to the marathon talk podcast with him). It's a big big race as i've said before, and 32.49 was good enough for 36th place.
It was also a qualifier for the 10k series which i am in, and as it was the last race of the series, guaranteed me prize money in January at an awards do, so all in all, not a bad day out at all.
Legs felt fine on Sunday morning, thank you magic green shoes
This week has started off with a recovery 7, which was much need this morning, as the legs felt tired.