Shades Marathon Training



    8 miles this morning.  I always check the forecast and hang out the window briefly so I can try and get kit right for the weather but it unexpectantly started to rain heavily just after I started running.  Then turned into torrential rain, windy too, and I was getting soaked, wet feet after 2 miles.  Ironic as I'd deliberately gone out early today as I think it's Storm Brendan that's due to come in this morning and I was trying to avoid the start of that. 

    I have sketched out a training plan to take me up to the end of April with no long runs and up to 3 doubles a week, top mileage 70mpw.   Not 100% decided if I'll follow the plan yet, we'll see.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Great race and mileage there Ian. Doing a race like that and then a long run afterwards...ouch!

    Interesting about the mileage, Shades. From an endurance perspective I’d always presumed a 20-miler would be ‘better’ than 2x10s. But as you and Ian said, if splitting the long runs means you can do more weekly mileage, then maybe that is better overall.

    Cal, well done on another parkrun and the mileage too.

    It’s not looking promising for getting out of this without a cold. One friend I’m sharing a room with has a really bad one :( He said he was thinking of not travelling.... If I pick up another cold and it knocks my running back again, I’ll be really pissed off!  Keeping everything crossed that whatever happens, it stays off my chest!!
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Ian - Congrats on the PB and good mileage too.
    Big G - Nice mileage there.
    Cal - Same, good mileage. What are you planning to peak at?
    15 miles on Saturday and 10 miles on Sunday for 56 miles for the week.
    Big G - Ian's question was a single 15 miler compared to 2 x 10 milers.   However, there are times when 2 x 10 milers would be better than a single 20 miler, it all depends on training goals/pace/etc.

    That's not good news about your room mate, get him to book another room, I take it he's not a runner being so thoughtless.  :#

    Steve - another good week's training done for you.  :)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-That weather is due here this afternoon so happy that I'm working later so could run this morning instead.
    9 easy miles,took it easy after yesterday and pace and effort reflected that,but happy to get some good miles.
  • Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Hi all, I came in, got a plan then disappeared! but my excuse is I'm not doing anything that interesting running wise ..... that changes next Monday when my marathon plan starts!
    Since I've last been here, I completed Marcothon for the 3rd time, ran my 50th parkrun and broke my parkrun PB which has been in place since 05.01.2019 ... my new PB, 21:57, which I'm still in some dis-belief about.
    Anyway, feel that marcothon has given me a great base for my training properly starting, so just keeping it ticking over.
    11ish km yesterday and planning doing Tue, Wed, Thur, Sat, Sun this week to mirror my plan ... although with a young baby I'm not sure where my MWLR will fit in, where there's a will there's a way I guess!
    Ian - we still have storm Brendan here, rain and wind.   I have postponed putting the recycling bins out until this evening when it should have calmed down.  Another bout of stormy weather tomorrow.

    Cozy - what is Marcothon?

    If you can't fit the MWLR in just do a short hilly run instead rather than struggle to do all the runs. And if still struggling for time do that every other week.
  • Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Can't believe Marcothon hasn't reached you guys yet. It is growing every year.

    It is run every day in December, either 3 miles or 25 minutes, whichever comes first. (or whatever you please above this) I tend to do a wee bit extra most days except parkrun days.

    I know it's probably not ideal, but I always feel much stronger for doing it. (and my parkrun PB would suggest I'm better for it)

    I do tackle a hills on the majority of my runs but I am keen to get my mileage up! On the back of Marcothon I was actually thinking would one long run and a few shorter 6kish runs through the week be enough (as I can fit this on my lunch hour), but as it's my first I'm going to do as I'm told and get the miles in!
    Cozy - No, never heard of Marcothon!

    I've heard of RED which is running every day in January, for charity I guess.

    But these challenges are good discipline for runners so as long as not injured are beneficial.    So a good start to your marathon training.

    Yes, you have to fit the runs into your work/home/family commitments so rewrite the plan to suit you.    For your first you do need to get the long runs done.

    Remind me which marathon you're doing.
    6 miles today.   Good running weather, all calm after the stormy weather.  

    Did a leg session in the gym yesterday and couldn't do the higher weights as just didn't have the energy in my legs and today's run was much the same.  But rest day tomorrow so that should restore my glycogen levels. :)
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - It was really windy here last night, but much calmer this morning!
    10 miles with 5 at LT today, came out at 6:32/6:34/6:33/6:26/6:38, still not running LT miles as fast as I was in HM training last year, but got more miles in the legs now I suppose!
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I've heard of the Marcothon on Facebook but I wasn't sure what it was.

    Yesterday was a rest/gym day - 15 minutes warm-up on the elliptical and then some back, shoulder, glute and ham stuff.

    Today I ran. I normally leave my MLR to Wednesday or Thursday but it looks like rubbish weather tomorrow so I did it today. Ended up doing 15 miles. Right knee gave me a little warning twinge during the first mile but then shut up. I suspect this is because it didn't like the downhills at Clair parkrun on Saturday - it has protested thusly before.
    Much later into the run my glute/ham got a bit achey, but I'm pretty good at ignoring that as it's grumbled off and on since 2017. I'll give it a good going over with my Theragun later (already had an Epsom salts bath).
    Those things aside it was an uneventful run. As I didn't go out until well after 6, it meant I was hitting the school run later into my run so I had to dodge a lot of kids on their wheeled implements of carnage, as well as dogs, wheely bins (I've lost count of the times I've whanged my funny bone on one of these bastards) and the Christmas trees that have yet to be picked up by the council. I managed not to trip over or bump into anything/one so that's a plus. Also saw a lady walking a corgi puppy, which was as cute as you can imagine.
    Pace was easy throughout - recovery pace initially but moving up to standard easy pace once I could see where I was going. I am definitely looking forward to lighter mornings.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Weather is a mixed bag here today,1 minute fine the next lashings of rain.
    Planned 12 but legs were not feeling it at all,hoped it would fade but still really sore so cut it back to 9,happy with the pace and effort but will probably cut back slightly this week now.
  • Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    It's Edinburgh I'm signed up for.

    Marcothon and RED January much the same I think, although Marcothon is for the real hardcore haha running Christmas day (and after numerous Christmas nights out). Marcothon was thought up by a Scottish lady (Debbie Consani, who is currently in 2nd place in the Montane Spine Race) so I guess it's still growing elsewhere, although the facebook group was very busy this year.

    I think the beauty of these challenges is mainly habit! I mentally expect to run most days after it, I fit runs in regardless of events which is a direct result of the challenge I guess.
  • Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    What distance would you start thinking about taking on some sort of food/gels etc

    I've really no idea on this, both in timings and what to eat, or how to carry? Any advice greatly received!

    When I done my half marathon I was completely empty for the last 2 miles, only grit got me through, I was also a very pale shade of white at the end!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cozy-This is something you absolutely must try in training,personally I have gels at 5,10,15 and 20 miles as I know I struggle to digest them much later than that.I wear shorts with 2 side zip pockets and carry everything in there.
    Steve - it's wild and windy here again now after a calm morning.

    Very consistent mile splits for your run today.

    Cal - that's a fair distance for a MWLR.  Bit of an obstacle course with all those hazards.  Like you I can't wait until the lighter mornings.
    Don't think I've ever seen a corgi pup, I bet it was cute.    I stopped and had a chat to a man walking his Chow Chow dogs last week, haven't seen a Chow for years.

    Ian - don't overdo it, you legs are probably asking for a bit of a rest.

    Cozy - oh, you have plenty time to train for Edinburgh then.   I haven't done Edinburgh, from this thread Steve did the half last year and I think Iain has done the marathon?

    Running on Christmas day is a joy not a penalty ;) 

    Re food/gels/sports drinks etc for your marathon training.   Get into the habit of eating well in preparation for your long runs, you shouldn't need to take on any extra fuel in training until you get to about 15 miles as long as you're not training too fast.   However, there's no harm in carrying 2 or 3 sweets just in case you have a bit of an energy crisis, can give you a mental as well as a physical boost.

    A half marathon race is probably roughly equivalent to a 16 mile long run and as you were racing it's often tough the last 3 miles or so .   For a half you would probably benefit by taking something on board at about 9 miles.

    What you use as fuel is entirely up to you, what you like and suits you, so trial and error.   Gels of course are very popular, I can't stand the consistency so I prefer to use sweet/dates/chocolate raisins/dried  apricots.   For my electrolytes I use salt tablets, they do take some getting used to though.   Some gels have electrolytes most don't.   If your marathon has sports drink provided then that's fuel and electrolytes, but you'd need to try that brand out in training so you get used to it as they can upset the stomach and it's a big risk to try something for the first time on race day.   
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-No I'm not,that's why I shortened it today,over the last few months I've got very good at running to the same effort,and whatever the pace is,is what it is.Glad I didn't run tonight as it's been very bad here this evening.
  • Howdy All
    Anyone come across a weird issue with probably Garmin as my watch GPS is on and recording properly as once i delete and upload direct to Strava the pace and elevation match what i do yet there is no map data at all. Also none on Garmin or Fetch. God knows what its doing but not seen a setting thing on either Garmin or Strava which is causing this. Damned annoying.
    Also apparently if you skip running for around 6 weeks even a 3 mile run makes legs ache a bit but that will pass soon enough.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Keith, I’ve seen a few people who have empty maps on Strava but I don’t know how they get over it. If your Garmin and Strava apps are up to date I’m not sure what else to check.

    Cozy, I’ve not heard of Marcothon, but great news that it’s kick started your training. Regarding Xmas Day, not sure if you do parkruns, but did you see that 2500 did Bushy Xmas day parkrun? Amazing numbers really.

    Snooker is finished for us, so we’re training home today. Really enjoyed it as we’ve seen some good games with lots of upsets. The arena is slightly different this year - the seating is temporary so after the tournament it’s all removed, but this year the seating is more comfortable with more space. So I’m hoping I don’t get any knee issues etc.

    I didn’t manage to get out for a run whilst here, unfortunately. Late nights have meant getting up late and by that time it’s too busy and a run wouldn’t have been that enjoyable. It’s a shame but I’ve had a good couple of weeks so I’m not too bothered on this occasion. 
  • Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Big-G, I am a parkrun man and did do my local (Linwood) parkrun on Christmas day which had a great turnout for our wee parkrun but nothing like Bushy! I hadn't heard that, and I've know idea how they coped logistically with that!
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cozy, I read they got their ‘legendary’ 3-finish funnel system out. It was their largest number of finishers ever, and they had 50 volunteers. I’ve not done it but planning on going soon. 
    Keith - sorry can't help re your missing map data.   I don't use Strava or Fetch for uploading training, however, my maps are all on Garmin Connect, not that I ever bother with the maps anyway.  In fact I'd like to remove the maps but haven't looked to see how I do that.

    Also apparently if you skip running for around 6 weeks even a 3 mile run makes legs ache a bit but that will pass soon enough.

    Is this from personal experience? ;) 

    Big G - good to hear the seating was more comfortable for you this year, hopefully no 'snooker injury' this year.    I expect it's quite tiring watching the snooker, I suppose you'll come home and watch the remainder on telly.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G - Glad you haven't picked up an injury this year!
    7 miles with strides on this mornings commute, 5 miles later.
    Had a gym review this morning.  My weight loss has stalled lately and there have been days when I've been hungry so have increased my food so wasn't sure how my results would be today, but all good.

    Weight loss, only 0.5kg since last review, total loss now 3.7kg
    Fat loss 1.5kg, total fat loss now 4.6kg
    Fat % down by 2.4% to 24.4%, total loss now 6.1%

    So good results as I'm losing fat and gaining muscle, target fat % is 20%.
    BMR is up by 21, was hoping it might be more but instructor said that's a fairly good increase, some only have an increase in single figures.

    So just to continue with what I'm doing and eat more when I need to, losing weight is no longer a target, reducing the fat % is my goal now.

    Instructor has given me some great new exercises, mostly on glutes and hamstrings.   I didn't do a full session just a couple of each to master any technique required and my butt is already complaining. :'(  
    Steve - shorter route home then ;) 

  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - Yeah my usual 5 mile route home, had to divert this morning to add the extra couple of miles!!
    That's great news on the fat loss, it's a significant amount you have lost now. Have you noticed a change in your running after the loss?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, if the games are quite quick with decent breaks or some action then it’s fine. But for me, if it all gets too tactical it can be hard work. Looking around the venue, it’s not uncommon to see people nodding off if it gets too slow. Mind you, they’re tend to be the ones who’ve been out drinking beer in the intervals :) Yes, hopefully I’ll watch some of the rest of the snooker. OH’s parents are over tomorrow for a few days so I may not get much chance, but hopefully I’ll watch the final at least. 
  • Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Done a wee 5.3km on my lunch hour, very windy in Glasgow so 5:08kms where I'm usually around 4:58ish!

    That probably leads me onto my next question, I really want to be about 3:50ish for my marathon in an ideal training world, which would make my easy runs at quickest around 5:50/6:00km.

    Hope this doesn't sound daft, but how do you slow down that much without compromising form etc, anytime I slow down I feel I sit back a bit in my stride if that makes any sense whatsoever!
    Steve - my training seems to be going quite well but without long runs and any road races of shorter than marathon distance it's hard to evaluate exactly how well I'm doing.  It could be that without long runs my short training runs are faster, although I don't think so as I often run on gym weary legs and I train with my HRM.   But I'm going to stick to my long term plan and not be tempted to do any shorter races until March.  I'm just about to start working very hard on glutes/hamstrings/quads over the next few weeks and I expect that to make my running feel quite tough.

    Big G - even without a beer I think it must be quite hard to watch the snooker, keep quiet and not fidget without feeling quite tired and perhaps nodding off.

    Cozy - don't calculate the speed of your easy runs, or any of your training paces from your desired finish time for the marathon.   Instead use a training calculator and plug in your current race PBs as you should always train at the pace prescribed by your current level of fitness.    Preferably use a half marathon or even a 10 mile recent PB, you could use your recent parkrun time but that could give you unrealistic paces.

    Then you have to be disciplined to run to those paces, if you run too fast you won't develop your aerobic system and you will most likely have a very painful and disappointing marathon.

    You won't be running a marathon with the same form as you run a 5km, it just takes a bit of concentration at the start of your training to get used to running slower.
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