Paris Marathon 2020

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  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    I saw that on the news last night.
    Two things struck me. 
    They didn't mention it in this report but in the news they said that Mara had a contract with another shoe company, not Nike 😏
    There was also a quote that said "The shoes do not return more energy than the athlete expends". If it did it would break the laws of physics, never mind the laws of the IAAF,  and would definitely be seen as an advantage. 😂
    I think the IAAF slipped up when these shoes were brought in and are doing their best to recover without having to re-write all kinds of records.
    They'd also have to deal with legal challenges in which they'd have to prove that the shoes gave an unfair advantage.
    I think they'd rather avoid having to do that as that would have a knock on in the Paralympic field, with the blades, which are basically springs
  • Orbutt said:
    KeyserSuze. Ouch. Hope you are recovering well. 
    Are you back in full training? How’s it going?
    Thanks O. Tentatively back this week with a run:walk 10M race last Sunday and a 4M in the ice this week. Back to parkrun tomorrow and a 6-8M on Sunday. We'll see!
  • Orbutt said:
    I saw that on the news last night.
    Two things struck me. 
    They didn't mention it in this report but in the news they said that Mara had a contract with another shoe company, not Nike 😏
    There was also a quote that said "The shoes do not return more energy than the athlete expends". If it did it would break the laws of physics, never mind the laws of the IAAF,  and would definitely be seen as an advantage. 😂
    I think the IAAF slipped up when these shoes were brought in and are doing their best to recover without having to re-write all kinds of records.
    They'd also have to deal with legal challenges in which they'd have to prove that the shoes gave an unfair advantage.
    I think they'd rather avoid having to do that as that would have a knock on in the Paralympic field, with the blades, which are basically springs
    Excellent points Orbutt. I don’t feel too guilty about buying a pair now. 
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Suze - brilliant.
    phronesis, how do you find them. Do you feel faster in them?
    Some of our friends have them and call them their cheat shoes because they feel that the shoes really are helping.
    I wonder if these are of more benefit to a faster runner, who has more natural spring in their step, rather than someone like me who is heavy footed?
  • They are great to run in. You do sort of spring off the ground. I haven’t run any PBs in them but I haven’t tried to. ‘Cheat shoes’ is putting it far too strongly, they must be feeling a bit guilty about using them. I am pretty heavy footed,  not a front striker, but they have helped me. They are expensive but so is entry to the PM, so is three nights in a Parisian hotel and so is a Middlesbrough-Paris return trip. Why not spend a bit on the most important aspect of the whole event? 
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    phronesis I have to be careful with my choice of shoes. I am incredibly flat footed and changing shoes has to be done really slowly or I get calf problems, so changing before Paris wouldn’t work for me.
    Do you train in them? Do you think they’ll have a good lifespan? I bought some Hokas that I wore down after about 150 miles so I’m pretty rough on shoes - and I’m also loath to splash out on kit. MrsO has to talk me into it, most of the time. 
    I’d certainly like to try them, some day - if they’re not banned 😂
  • That’d be just great to have them banned just before the big day! I do all my training in them. Doing 26k tomorrow!! 
  • chamolkchamolk ✭✭✭
    150 miles for a pair of shoes isn't much. Do hokas wear out easily, or what in on do you do with them Orbutt? 
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Chamolk I’m a bit of a foot dragger so it’s possibly down to me but the soles didn’t seem as resilient as my ASICS. I’d previously run in Brooks but they started failing on me too.
     I find that the heel of my left foot wears out before anywhere else. 
    However, my current ASICS are up to 430k and counting so I’m sticking with them for a while.
    How many miles (km) do other people get from from their shoes?
  • It can be hard to tell with Hokas when they’ve worn out because the soles are so thick you don’t really notice. I find it’s only when I start getting a few unusual niggles that I realise they’ve worn out - or, as is the case with my current pair, the uppers start to disintegrate.  I generally get a lot more than 150 miles out of them, and I’ve had a few pairs. But they don’t suit everyone.
  • > @Orbutt said:
    > How many miles (km) do other people get from from their shoes?
    Mileage varies, I do around 50% of my running on farm tracks which I think have less wear than tarmac/pavements but:

    - Saucony Rides fell apart as the sides split and the soles wore down about 390 miles
    - Asics Gel Nimbus 20's the soles wore down at around 520 miles on one pair, 550 miles on another (high mileage but still comfy)
    - Brooks Adrenaline GTS 19... my current shoe at 320 miles and virtually no wear.

    I did have a very old pair of Brooks that I wasn't tracking in Garmin and they went on forever so my personal, very unscientific feeling is Brooks last really well. The downside... these Brooks are the only shoe to ever give me blisters and black toenail in a race.

    I have a very slight overpronation but I now think most of that gait analysis is a waste of time and just props up sales. So I am looking for a new shoe. Coming back from repeat calf tears I think heel drop might be more important than "correction"... and I am also not keen to replace shoes every 200 miles but might go back to Asics... undecided.

    I've been to a few sports shops for advice and gait analysis and every one said something different so put me in the very sceptical pen when it comes to running shoe shop advice! That said, £250 a pair for everday use is out of my price range but I am considering buying alternating pairs of shoes... just not sure which.

    I'm curious what mileage others get too?
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Wheatism. It is the heal drop that causes issues with me too (totally unscientific, personal opinion). I tried to transition from Brooks Adrenaline (12mm) to Saucony Guide (7mm) and got hit by a series of calf tears.
    I started running in Brooks but I had 2 pairs of GTS16s that failed really quickly. With me, the left heal wears down but in the case of these two pairs the sole at the heel actually peeled off. One pair I could have accepted as a dodgy shoe but the 2nd pair made me move to ASICS.
    I have never got more than about 350 miles out of a shoe but that would be my fault rather than the shoes.
    Running Rodent. My Hokas (Arahi) had the same issue and the tread at the heel broke down and peeled off.
  • I find the new asics nimbus seem to be less sturdy that the old ones. I've still got a pair of the 13s and some of the prototype metaruns that I use for the gym, but they're fine too run a few miles in. The cynical bit of me feels this is just to make people buy shoes more often.

    I'm not that convinced about the analyses of running gait either wheatism. I over probate, but do all my running in asics nimbus and ds trainers without any problems. Did my first marathon in Nike free 5.0s. Few recent studies showing that wearing the "recommended" shoes is less helpful than wearing a shoe that feels comfortable

    I'm just going to stick to what seems to work for me for now
  • Eggyh73Eggyh73 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    I think I’m lucky that I’ve never had any issues at all from the shoes I wear. I’ve been wearing Saucony Kinvara for years. They’re a 4mm heel drop with minimal cushioning. I think the fact I wear Converse as my normal every day shoe means I’m used to no cushioning, or at least very minimal cushioning.

    I get between 600 to 750 miles out of each pair. I’m far too Scottish to pay lots of money for shoes that would be knackered after 125 miles!
  • I don’t actually log which shoes I wear, but looking back and making a rough estimate I reckon the Hokas I’m about to retire (Bondi 6) probably did about 600-700 miles, so I reckon they don’t really owe me anything. 
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    I slayed the dragon, today, and got my 22k done. It was a real battle with my head towards the end but I kept going, albeit slowly.
    Oh, and someone needs to call the Men in Black. When I had my shower I discovered that I had been attacked by a BallChafian. 😳
  • Shoes - I generally try and get 500 miles out of a pair of £100+ shoes. Ran in Hoka for a couple of years and switch back to Asics Cumulus following a bunch of injuries. I alternate between a treadmill pair, a muddy pair and a clean pair (to take away for work, etc).

    Long runs - Orbutt, I sympathise. I think anything longer than 14 miles is Body Glide territory. Up to 16 (lubricated) miles for me today :)
  • Eggyh73Eggyh73 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    That must be the worst type of chafing! 
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Oh yes. I was using Gurney Goo too ☹️
  • PT71PT71 ✭✭✭
    I was supporting club members at a local half marathon yesterday and 9 out of the 1st 10 were all in Nike next% and 17 out of the top 20
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Well one of the requirements is that a shoe must be freely available.
    The question is, are these runners fast because of the shoes or despite them?
    If everyone buys them to give themselves an edge then no one gets an edge 🙂
    Nike must be absolutely chuffed.
  • If they help get me under 4 hours they’ll have done their job. 
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Phronesis they may get you I  before your watch loses charge 😁
  • PT71PT71 ✭✭✭
    one thing is for sure, NIke are making an absolute killing at £250 a pair as they are unbelievably popular in the events I have taken part in or supported recently, I would say 30-40% of my club wears them
  • NellsNells ✭✭✭
    I think there's no doubt that if you're pretty speedy, already close to as good as you're going to get after training as hard as life will allow for, and keen to smash another PB to smithereens, these shoes will be a factor in getting you there. So if you're going to be towards the top of the table in the results listing, it makes sense to be wearing these along with most of the others crossing the finish line around you.

    Having volunteered just beyond the finish line at London, I remember at least with the first version of these that quite a few of the finishers wearing them would clearly be unlikely to be wearing them again as the soles in particular looked wrecked, so I can well believe that they are purely a racing shoe, not one for general mileage as they just won't last that long so it's going to get expensive to keep replacing them and the whole point of them (and the justification for the price) is the race day advantage. If I were to splash out, I'd be saving them for races with another pair of Nike shoes for training, maybe trying them out in a parkrun and/or a half in preparation. As it is, I think I have plenty to room for improvement just from training, diet etc using the shoes I've found to suit me best over the years (incidentally for me and my narrow feet, mostly Adidas and Nike, with Adidas Adizero being the most popular choice generally, and Nike Pegasus used mostly for long runs). When (if?) I get into better shape and possibly a sniff of a sub something, or even a GFA/BQ, I think that's when I'll be ready to consider a splurge!
  • NellsNells ✭✭✭
    Oh, and Orbutt - similar distance for me yesterday too, and also suffered some chafing! Clean forgot the bodygliding despite some epic 'getting ready for a long run' procrastination, so all my own fault...
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Nells - ouch.
    I blame mine on running tights 😁
  • Anyone else's Paris marathon app going mad this afternoon? Mine is repeatedly buzzing to give me notifications of the same things over and over
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Not yet but it did award me multiple badges the other day.
    Maybe I’ve got this to look forward to 😳
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