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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Another 2 days of quality running so far this week. After mainly slow hilly stuff last week I fancied a bit of a tempo session so jumped on the treadmill after work yesterday. Started with a progressive 10K: 8:3x down to 6:48s which I held for 9K then a K in 4:00 before gradually winding it down over the final 1200m to finish with 13.2M in 96 minutes.
Another 5M@8s on it at lunch today to avoid the hail showers then made it to the club track session for the first time this year: 1M progressive wu then 10x440 yds off 2' recovery & a 1M cd. Averaged 87s a lap for the efforts on a cold & windy redgra track so reasonably happy with that after a big few days. Back to easy for the next 3 days then parkrun Saturday & the final XC of the season Sunday gunning for promotion
sPete - oddly, my legs are OK ish. Very heavy, but no specific soreness and I've been able to trot up and down stairs no probs. I made sure I walked a couple of miles yesterday in lieu of a recovery run and I think that helped. proof of the pudding will be in the next run!
Not sure how much conditions added; felt really tough to me in the last 5k and my 7'30 mile pace in the final throes demonstrated that, and so I would ordinarily agree with SG's assessment (and would like to agree given my performance!). However lots of people produced exceptional times still. In addition (or more likely because of that) Run Britain only rated the race a 0.8 on their SSS scale which is still very fast. With zero wind I reckon they would have had it about a 0.5 (Farnborough a few weeks before in perfect conditions was a 0.5) so RB think only about 0.3 of a minute per 10k (or about 40 secs for the full HM) for the weather. Overall I wouldn't argue with that; I just think some handle it much better than others (sadly I'm in the other category
SG (or PMJ who I think is our resident pacer expert!): Just wondered what the pacer is meant to do? If he is 1'25 is that gun or chip? Also what is the etiquette for how much ahead you are meant to come in and are they supposed to run an even pace or use their judgement to allow for the prevailing winds and elevations at different points?
The 1:25 pacer did a good job. After an opening 6:14 mile, he averaged 6:25 for the first 10 miles (Garmin splits between 6:20 and 6:36) finishing in 1:24:45. There were only four runners with him when I got dropped at 9.5 miles but I'm not sure how many of those managed to stay with him all the way (he must have run 6:30 for the last three miles).
When still it is a faassst course.
When it's like Sunday...less so!
Chuckling at Pete talking a mere 40secs over a whopping 13.1miles, as i'm sure some of us have done 5ks that have lost good whops of time due to wind! One of those Gosport 5ks for instance.
And even the mile I did down there came out 5.10, versus a 4.56 the year before in still conditions!
to me that range of splits 6:14 -> 6:36 seems massive for someone who is carrying a flag as a pacer. I'd be really disappointed if I'd delivered that kind of job.
I looked back to last year when I paced a couple round from the club with a target of 89. Splits ranged 6:41->6:48. It's really not that hard as long as you're not on the limit.
My splits for the last 4 miles were 6:31, 38, 32, 33. I overtook dozens of people. I never understand why folks get it so wrong (for distances < mara), I mean it was obvious that those few miles were going to be tough and everyone knows that 'time in the bank' is actually 'time down the drain'!
I'm on efforts tonight, hope that's OK captain (I wasn't all in at Wokey so hope I have dispensation?!).
Wool - Agree..for me you can only go out 'hard' on 3k and under. Well that's me anyway. Basically just get a target time and divide it up per mile/K, not rocket science.
Good to see you on the way back Moraghan, did see you a while back, god knows what event it was though. Was going to come over for a chat but got waylayed.
Congrats Joe! I do have the Garmin now in my possession, but not used it yet..
Luton last night, conditions a little muddy, but not too bad. Session was 8 x 800 off 80, 100m up the ridge from 600-700 after the whole rugby field. started 2.48 and managed to get the last one down to 2.40. The turnaround on the top of the ridge was a little long, so perhaps 3-4 secs off. Reasonably happy with that after the weekend.
I've done halves before and found efforts on the Friday have been tight!
Will weigh up a follow up half. Usually if I've stormed a half i'd feel the work was done and not really fancy another, but a bit 50-50 now.
The 12 stage relay will be a fun day out in 3 1/2 weeks though first up. No pressure, team day sort of thing.
I know many of you are a fair bit faster than me and can be more precise about the best time you can hope to achieve and then run pretty level splits based on that. Its also easier to do that the shorter the race distance of course. However the slower and older you are the more variable I think your performances become, so the less easy it is to know what to target.
My only reservation nowadays with the ambitious (or deluded!) strategy is it makes the latter part of so many races a thoroughly miserable experience; tank is empty, being passed left right and centre and seeing your pace slow dramatically. Think I'll set my expectations lower in longer distance races in future and aim for more level paces, but does mean the best case targets will have to increase.
Good info on W'ham '19 and '18 Jools; so if we say 0.6 of a min more on RB this year and that is per 10k then maybe we can agree about 75 seconds for the wind. That better SG?
Fine session Simon so soon after running through all that slop at the weekend; don't know how you recover so quickly!
I like your plan Pete but I don't share your pessimism in the outcome that best case targets will have to increase. Only putting it in to practice will tell though, good luck!
Re; pacers - agree with Wool, it's definitely not difficult to run at the required pace if it's relatively within your comfort zone. I've paced 1:30 quite a few times (am doing so again at next weeks Surrey Half), and I'm always within 3-5 seconds on the mile splits. It's usually done off my chip time, so I always reminder runners during the race to take into account whether they started slightly before or after me. Most who want to line up with the pacers in the pens beforehand anyway.
Pete - do agree with you on the ambition front. Sometimes if you don't try, you'll never know! Depends how much of a gambler you are.
I've got the Big Half this Sunday. Not sure I'm looking forward to it, as I ran 1:16 and 1:15 this time last year, and I think at the moment I'd be lucky with sub 1:20. We shall see what happens. Plan is to not go out too hard. Looking forward to telling you next week how I went through the first mile in 1:12 pace.
Wokingham is near impossible to do the last 5k the same as the first 5k. Most people have a natural drop off anyway, but you have the climbs in the end part.
Personally I set off steadily, due to previously stated reasons, super tight grid, lack of racing, especially long distance, and knowing the wind effect would kick in. That's probably why although I was certainly pleased it was finished, and knew i'd raced, I didn't necessarily feel as tuckered as I have at the end before.
Similar to the Maidenhead 10 really - steady pace, and thus able to keep very consistent.
Whether this is my approach these days, or whether i'll get back to the sharper out / banking time approach of the pb days, time will tell!
One thing for certain is that it's a great feeling having logged a half, and seeing it on PO10.
Especially being the first race in 2020 for me.
So if they have a race vSSS of 0.8 compared to 0.5 that is 0.3 of a minute (18 secs) harder per 10k, or roughly 38 secs per HM (21K). So its not quite as you said it; each 0.1 is 0.1 of a minute or 6 seconds per 10k, roughly 12.5 seconds per HM. As a practical example if this years W'ham is 0.8 and last year's was 0.2 that is 0.6 of minute slower per 10k (36 secs) or 76 seconds for the full HM (2.1*10 so 2.1*36 secs). All a bit complicated and I might not be quite right with the numbers but its along thee lines.
That's not logging a race on there for 6 months for you!
A 1.18.30 half would bring it back to 2.7 though...
The VSSS stuff is way over my head tbh!
Pete -agree about the ambition. And I am a bit of a coward runner unless it's a shorter race where it allows you to go off like an idiot. The MK 5,000 and the October LFOTM have reminded me what it feels like to be in bits at the end of the race (well before it!) and it's not nice.
Even some MT one I did a couple of years ago that saw me dredge in at low 19s and have to sit down for 20mins after was fine not too long after.
The longer the race, and the more you add in hills, offroad, heat, humidity etc, the more chance of a world of monumental pain!
Not sure we can be too harsh on the 1:25 pacer either. Bear in mind, it's not as simple as just pretending the wind isn't there and every mile is the same, using your superior speed to provide a metronomic pace. The pacer's job is to actually get people to the end of the race in about the target time. The pacer would recognise that those people using them for this end are human, and they will have been affected by the wind etc. A good pacer would actually try and take that into account, increasing the pace when the going is easy and decreasing it when necessary so that those following aren't putting themselves into the red by trying to maintain an idealised pace. I reckon if I'd have stuck with the 1:25 pacer I might actually have cracked 1:25, but as with most things in life, it's easy to say with hindsight!
Double day today, and surprisingly the legs were OKish - not sure what that says about Sunday's effort!
Long single tomorrow as wfh.
Friday ill entertain something with some sort of nip.
Wfh day which is good timing for a single 10.
Didn't "seem" that cold but thought i best go two layers and gloves in case.
Great decision as come midway the snow started and went freezing!
SCoombes - I was laughing at your XC photos. I vowed never to do another one after doing Parliament Hill a decade ago. I also see you have the Beds Vets record for 1500m, good job.
With regards to pacing, you used to see some hilarious misjudgements in some of the BMC races. How often do you really need to off at National record pace.
I'll catch up as I go along (online and running) because I'm not going to try and catch up on all the posts since I was a regular. I've rowed and biked this week - and I thought easy running was dull!
Some fun and frequent stuff alongside some a races. But this year need to push the pace a bit.
Are you aiming to target the short stuff again?
Whenever I've done the faster zone reps for 300-400m i can always feel a distinct lack of power ☺