P&D Spring Marathon 2020

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  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    Cal - great long long LR. 

    Jools - nice 2nd place, always more satisfying when its so close and you come out on top. Don’t know how you manage to fit in the late night partying and still get out to run, I would be a mess! 7 years is a bog gap, what persuaded your daughter to give parkrun another go?

    Hamo - great pace for 24M, I’m guessing MP would be around 1 min/mile quicker and maybe a bit more for a flat course, nice indicator of sub 2:30 shape... your Sun race will be an interesting data point. 

    Macca, millsy - the logistics were fairly straightforward as I was running near the bib pick up and start, even managed to finish my 20k just as they were lining up. It’s the first time I’ve managed to be organised enough to combine a LR and race, no way I could have hit those paces otherwise. Also great 20M race macca, surprised your VFs fell apart though, going too fast!?

    SQ - very solid running, nice mix of sessions and plenty of miles. Good to hear the 1080s are going well, agree they are pricey though. 

    TR - impressed you keep banging out the 15 milers, only managed 1 so far. Good luck to you and millsy at Fleet. Is sub 80 on?

    After a couple of easy days, went out for 6x1k this morning. Got it done but pace was slower than a few weeks ago, around 10k pace. Must still be feeling the weekend LR, oh well another session completed. Any updates on Manchester or VLM? Read that the Giro and TDF are at risk as well, I imagine the Giro will definitely be cancelled. Melbourne GP still seems to be on though but Miley Cyrus concert is off - not sure what that says about the respective fans. 
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    AWC - I think I've caught the same thing as you. I just can't be bothered getting up early in this weather to go running. Still doing short lunch runs, but little else the last couple of weeks. Last year I was getting up at 5-5:30 3 days a week and loving it. 

    Some great running from everyone else. Hammo - smashing it every time, Macca - 33 min PB!!!, SQ - peaking at the right time. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    hamo, your weekly mileage is what I'd run in a fortnight (although, having said that, I'm a lot slower so I'm on my feet for longer during my runs). Well done.

    AWC, I think it's always good to dial back a bit every now and then, for mental and physical recovery. I haven't really taken off much time at all - after Yorkshire I was off for a week with a cold but then straight back into training for Tokyo, which of course didn't happen in the end. I could probably use a bit of a break but I'm not sure when I am going to manage it as I have a pretty packed schedule, coronovirus permitting.

    Macca - great job. I've never done a 20 mile race. I gather Hillingdon rather lives up to its name. How old are the VFs?

    Nice miles and parkrun, SQ. I always enjoy trying a different parkrun although I admit I am seeking out the tarmac ones at present. I am not one of those people who enjoys mud.

    TR, sounds pleasant! :D

    Good stuff, Jooligan.

    Gym yesterday....rather warm today - it was threatening to rain so I wore a T-shirt with a jacket and I felt rather hot for most of it.
    After the first couple of miles another runner pulled alongside me and asked if I was training for a marathon and I ended up running with him for another three or so miles before he had to peel off back home (which is on the other side of the common from me). It was rather nice having a natter as we ran, but my intended recovery pace turned into the fast end of easy pace. Oh well! Legs weren't feeling bad after Sunday so I guess that's OK.
    I've also done the most frivolously runnery thing ever, which is entering an evening 10K tomorrow because I like the medal. (That aside, going by Saturday's parkrun I might have a chance of a good time).

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SQ - around 12m in it was dark, i was wet through and getting cold, i thougt to myself im going to love it (in a keegan stylie) in the summer when im doing thosr 15s in the warmth and dry.

    John - who knows ? Difficult to predict a 1/2:in mara build up, i had a shocker there last yr with 1.25.4X. Hopefully 1.22 or better.

    Cal - go for it, youve been racing well.

    Quick turnaround for 10m inc 15x 3min today. Didn't get quite as far as last week by the end of the efforts, but i didnt have the bumcake doms i had today from the weekends ikea furniture wrangling.

    Abo is open.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Millsy - Excellent parkrun, I like the Zoom Fly for my speed work. Big week too.
    SQ - Nice pace on the MP sections and big week including a speedy parkrun.
    TR - Nice MLR and 3 min efforts.
    John - nice reps, not surprised the legs are heavy after the long run!!
    Macca - Massive PB!!
    14 miles today, legs felt heavy, but they knew to just keep moving!
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    HA: sounds very familiar. The only thing I found to help was to just forget about running and races and do something else I enjoy for a bit. This weather doesn't help when you are already finding things tough
    Macca: great racing and massive PB
    Yesterday's lunchtime run was the first one I've enjoyed in a few weeks and the first time that I was disappointed it came to an end. Recently I've been desperate to get back in the door again
    I've had 2-3 colds the last 8 weeks as well and I think I haven't properly recovered from those which has impacted energy levels
    Run commuting tonight and tomorrow and looking forward to it :)
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    AWC...Glad the run went well and you enjoyed it, hope that's the start of the motivation coming back.

    Macca...Great racing, a 33 min pb is massive, congrats on the county medal, not to be sniffed at at all, class. Hope Nike are helpful with the shoes.

    SQ...Big week. Good work at the impromptu parkrun. Nice that it worked out so well for you, that wristband came in handy. Good MP'd long run too, speedy.

    TR...Nice MLR, shame about the weather, but you're right, think how good you'll feel in the summer :lol: Good intervals this morning too, hope the DOMS clear quickly, can't be too careful round IKEA :lol:

    Jools...Good double day, always good to see your progression with similar runs.

    John...Not sure i'd be agreeing with your 2.30 prediction, but the target time is something i'll look at after this run of tune up races over the next few weeks and see where i am (like last year). I'm firmly in the circa 2.35 camp at the minute though. Good reps from yourself, doing them with that long run in your legs will drop the pace a bit, but good effort and good training.

    HA...Hope you can find the mojo again soon. I agree, you need to love it to get up regularly at stupid o'clock.

    Cal...Best of luck with tomorrow night. You are just right striking when the iron is hot form wise, i expect you'll go very well. Nice that you had company on today's run too, can make a difference.

    Steve...Good MLR, you know the training is working when your legs keep turning 'on their own' no matter how tired you are, good sign.


    I headed down to the tow path this morning for a Vo2 10 miler with 5x800 (off 90 secs) reps. I feared the worst as i started the run as it was quite breezy, but thankfully when i got to the tow path it was more of a cross wind than anything else. Very pleased with the pace of the reps which came in at 2.32, 2.30, 2.30, 2.31 and 2.29, so all in all a good morning. 5 mile recovery this evening is the plan.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Hamo - I have to agree with John. You're running faster than I was at this time last year and you're doing 100 mile weeks, while I was only doing 60ish. In fact I think the only thing that will stop you at this point is overcooking it.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Impressive to get reps done at 10k speed so soon after that long effort run, John. You’re obviously adapting well to the marathon training. Have you entered Canberra?

    Sorry to hear it’s proving difficult, HA. Ebbs and flows, I suppose. Hope you’re enjoying it and motivated again soon.

    Cal – you make a good point about mileage and time. Really, time is all that matters in terms of stress on the body, although it’s always tempting to look at mileage. Certainly in my log on fetcheveryone.com, I have miles on show. Might consider switching it to hours. Lovely to spontaneously chat with another runner.

    Sounds a good tempo like session, TR. Not that P&D specific? I know that I’m hanging after super hard 800s.

    Packing in the miles, Steve.

    Very pleased you’re back on it, AWC. What were your thoughts on Shakespeare marathon last year?

    Very consistent reps, hamo. And five minute miling!

     

    Hour easy recovery for me this morning. Legs not too bad after yesterday’s big one, although nothing more than the standard 8:50 recovery pace on offer. Seemed to get back just before the wind started going mental. Bloody hate the wind. Pleasingly the river in Worcester has gone down a fair bit and the paths around the river and racecourse are almost back to normal. Nice to have more traffic free routes on offer. Hopefully this will tempt Spoons back out!


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    AwC - you probably needed a mental break from it too. It can get a bit consuming.

    Good man Hamo, reliably on it again. I use you as one of my reminders to get my arse out the door.

    SQ - yes a few too many reps, but im a diesel i guess, so would barely get moving in 5 or 6 reps. The wind has been a bit relentless, didnt really matter for 3 min reps. The beauty of the BAC sessions was the running for time not pace.
  • AWCAWC ✭✭✭
    SQ: I really enjoyed Shakespeare although the 2nd 13 mile loop is tough without the half marathoners when you see them pealing off. Its pretty flat apart from one short incline in the middle of the loop somewhere and its really all country lanes and a big gravel path (can't remember its name). Definitely a PB course if you can motivate yourself to run alone for large periods.
    TR: I think you are right - physically I felt able to run but I literally just kept thinking I really can't be arsed with this :D which actually felt quite liberating.
    Hamo: great VO2 session - looking back a couple of pages I can see you have really hit some bit times and paces and are looking at a super fast marathon. Fingers crossed it all works out as you could get an awesome result. I was supposed to be visiting the home land at Easter but Flybe decided to collapse so I lost my flights and with CV19 I'm reluctant to book more flights in case they go the same way
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    John my daughter returned to parkrun because I suggested it as a day out. We then carried on to look at a possible field I'd found for her horses should she go to uni this Autumn before visiting the beach. I don't imagine she'll be doing lots more now but I doubt it'll be 7 years before her next one :)
    As I said on Strava, the way you've been running Hamo, 2:30 has got to be a realistic target. As HA said (& others have alluded to) the only danger is overcooking the training. I know you take your recovery days nice & easy but you often seem to run MLRs & LRs slightly faster than planned for one reason or another & race far more often than P&D suggest too.
    Glad to hear the rest has restored your enthusiasm AWC.
    Good to hear from you HA. Funnily enough I'd literally been wondering how you were doing whilst running the day before you popped back in. Good to hear you're not injured just finding better things to do with your time. Certainly not been a winter for marathon training if the heart's not in it & with the imminent threat of cancellations looming it's even harder to get out the door for those tough sessions/time consuming LRs.
    That said I'm going well this week. Another 10M run/10M bike commute today with a decent treadmill session at lunch: 9K with 3x2K pyramids after a 1K wu. Each of the pyramids was 400m@6:48/400m@6:26/400m@6:00/400m@6:26/400m@6:48 off 800m@8:00. So 6:55 average pace for the full session & HMP for the 2K efforts.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jools - you're in good shape, you are tuning up nicely.
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    AWC - good to see you get back into it, time off is a good thing if it means you come back fired up for your next target race. Good attitude about doing what you enjoy, so important that running doesn't become a chore that you dread. Aren't you running UTMB? If so plenty of time to build up.

    HA77 - I can relate to your feelings about the 5am starts, since I've been off work I rarely do that any more. However I do still enjoy the satisfaction of getting a session or MLR done before most people have even had breakfast, just not enough to do it unless I have a busy day.

    Cal - good runchat, for what is mostly a solo activity it can be nice to have company every now and again. Love the last minute 10k entry, no pressure and will make a great session or maybe even more by the sounds of it.

    TR - nice session, 45 mins of intensity is pretty solid. Best to keep your powder dry for Sunday.  

    Hamo - I know it was only 5 reps but when you're banging them out in 2:30s that's another possible indicator! If VLM happens I would imagine there's more likely to be a pack running at 2:30 pace so tucking in with them for the ride could give you that extra bump of confidence that it's doable.

    SQ - seems like you've recovered well. Haven't entered Canberra yet although it never sells out, in fact you can still enter on race day! Not huge in terms of numbers but the second half can get crowded with the 50k, marathon and HM runners all coming together.

    Jools - I see, bribery to get her out, nice move! I heard from my neighbour that horses can be a real drain on finances, fortunately my daughter isn't interested but she keeps asking for a dog, which I've still said no to as I can see I'd be expected to take it out for a walk all the time.

  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    HA77...I'm following the p&d plan to the letter 99% of the time, only swapping a day or two to allow a 'mini taper' or for family things, so hoping that will stop me overcooking and allow plenty of recovery, doesn't stop me over thinking it though :flushed: . I'm listening to my legs too in fairness, or at least trying to, and not blindly following it, i'm not naive enough to think one plan works for everyone, but so far so good *touch wood*. I'm very grateful for the optimism you and others are showing at the minute, not sure i'm 100% comfortable, or agreeable with it if i'm honest, but i'll see after these races.

    SQ...Nice easy hour. I agree, hope the better weather and conditions can lure Spoons back out to rekindle the love.

    TR...Cheers, and vice versa, i know you are out there consistently banging the miles out, and use it as motivation too.

    AWC...Yea, Flybe was a big kick to the City airport, could you not use easyjet to the international? You'd imagine they'd be less likely to go bust/cancel flights. There is a nice half/10k at Glenarm Castle on Easter Saturday (cant be far from you), that i'm contemplating, if that entices you any? :lol:

    Jools....Noted re the MLR and LR paces, and it's something I've thought or over thought about to be fair. I run them in the MP+10 (actually MP+15 is as fast as i normally go) to MP+20 range, but I usually keep it nearer to MP+20. I think it said to do them in that range in the book, but maybe not all the time? And if i'm honest, i haven't re-read the book since last year, so could very well be wrong. I'm only racing 1 extra race, than is in the plan, this year, which i'm swapping a 7@LT for, so trying to behave myself :flushed::lol: 
    Another good double day from you, that is a consistent quick pyramid session, good work. You are building well.


    15 windy mile MLR this morning, and after all I've said above about not overcooking it, the legs where knackered from the start, not helped by a strong head wind through the first half of the run. It was a battle, so glad to get it done and put it down to mental training. Though I've just realised that i'll have done 111 miles for this 'rolling week' after this evenings 5 recovery miles, which is by far the most I've ever ran, so no wonder my legs where feeling it. Easier end to the week now thankfully as i'll be 'tapering' for Sundays 10k. 

    Apologies for the long self indulgent post.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Hamo - Good run on tired legs. Not surprised though given the rolling 111 miles!! fingers crossed the mini taper works for the 10k.
    Jools - Nice speed session.
    SQ - nice easy hour.

    6 mile recovery run to work after kettlebells this morning. 5 miles later.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Hamo - not suggesting you are overcooking it but I think you probably have the fitness now to run sub 2:30 and I think that being tired on race day probably presents the biggest risk of not running well. If you feel good and are listening to your body, you're probably doing the right thing.

    I actually think following a plan to the letter presents a bigger risk as you are more likely to get out for a scheduled run when you might be better off recovering. The scheduled recovery is just what what the author feels an average person doing the plan would require.

    Not that I think this is the case for you. You seem to have built up gradually to this point and seem to be handling the big mileage well without anything but normal tiredness you'd expect with marathon training. You probably know your body pretty well by now so can judge what's too much. I guess my point is that we should try to know when we need recovery, rather than relying on a generic plan written by someone who doesn't know us at all. 
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Steve...good recovery running.

    Ha...I didn't think you were suggesting i was overcooked at all, my response was more of a brain fart than anything else. I'm very conscious of the higher mileage and not overdoing it, so that all came out in my reply, more of a 'prove it to myself' type post :flushed: I agree completely that following a generic plan blindly is not good, but i use it as a comfort blanket if you like, that i am getting enough recovery in between sessions, while using my discretion to add more recovery/ease off the pace of runs if i'm feeling it, if that makes sense. You are 100% on the 'we should all know when we need recovery' though, and as I've said before to you, it is something that you have down to a fine art it seems.
  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭
    Good stuff Hamo, sorry about that. Always easy to slightly misinterpret stuff when you're not talking face to face. The only thing I have down to a fine art at the moment is sitting on my arse and picking up niggles.
  • Hamo - I’m going to disagree with others, your biggest risk is stepping off a kerb and turning your ankle - seriously, touching wood here.  FWIW I reckon I’m about 90-95% plan compliant and probably spend most time in the +20-25% range.

    Claim submitted to Nike. Apparently there’s a 2yr guarantee, excluding normal wear and tear of course. Mine are 11months old with about 150 miles in them so will see what they say.  Worst case scenario is an evening getting high with Mr Araldite.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Ha...Nothing to apologise for at all, i appreciate the input, honestly.

    Macca...Cheers Macca :lol: I'm touching wood while reading that. Hope Nike live up to their 'good customer service' rep and do right by you.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I know Muddy uses Shoe-goo (whatever that is) to patch up his Vaporfly soles Macca. You have a point regarding Hamo's greatest risk - sure there have been several tales of almost serious turned ankles. Hopefully less likely as the light has improved.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    John - i have to walk the dog before i can rum in the morning.

    Hamo/HA - always used to impress me last yr when Hamo would do his 20 on the friday and then smash a race on the sunday.

    Macca - hope Nike replace them, if they have any left. I use shoe goo to kerp.my shoes in balance as i wear the outside of the right heel more, but Araldite should do the trick.

    12m easy tonight, around 85m in a rolling 7 days, so time to ease off a bit for fleet.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Not much of a taper there then TR! Just single digit runs til Fleet then?
    I did the bike/run commute combo again today & also got out for 5M along the canal at lunch so another 15M day. Nothing too hard 7:40s at lunch & 8:14 for the commute. The back half of the commute was into a ferocious wind so pleased with that pace for the effort. Definitely better than last week's go in spite of it being my 4th consecutive 10M run :)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    Jools - you are tuning up well, you are often running quicker than i am.......6m per day until sunday. Ive tried to do a similar week to the week before solent 1/2 when i did 1.22 4 wks before Abo. Fleet is a comparable course (not quick but decent enough).

    I have entered 4 10ks through May to July, to try to hunt down my pb before i get too old. The quicker running will hopefully do me good before i get the Abo work done.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    hamo, if you've logged 111 miles, you can be as self-indulgent as you want!
    Well done on your runs, guys.

    This morning I did 8 miles at recovery pace, and was quite strict about that. It was relaxed and quite enjoyable. Evening was the 10K (pretty much the only time I do doubles is when I do an evening race, so not often!)

    It didn't go as smoothly as all that. This morning's run was fine, then carried a big bag back from the launderette with no problems, ate, watched TV, played around on the computer for a bit, then made a coffee about an hour before leaving and all fine. Get up from my chair to change into my running kit and my SI joint (right this time) screams at me. It took me a good 20 seconds to manage to attain an upright posture. By this point I had only enough time to change into my stuff and leave, but I stuck my Theragun on it and tried to stretch as best I could.
    It was uncomfortable as I walked down to the tube, OK when I was sat down but uncomfortable again as I stood up. This was going to be fun.
    I spotted Scott, another runner from my club (he's very tall so hard to miss) as I was leaving the station so we had a good chat and it took my mind off my back a bit. What I did notice was that the wind had really picked up and was pretty gusty. Oh boy.
    After I'd got my number and dropped my bag I ran around in a circle for a bit (there wasn't much time by that point) and figured I could run with it because, well, I was going to have to. If it hurt too much there was always the option to drop down to 5K as the 10 was four laps and the 5, 2.
    Time to line up at the start (fortunately, Garmin has been working fine since the update) and then it was off.
    I was familiar with the park from running the half marathon there last year and it covers some of the same paths. However, it was dark, which was a novel experience for me - I've done a few evening races before but all in summer when it's been light. The park looked very cool with the Orbit and various structures all lit up but not all the paths were fantastically well lit, so that was a challenge for me and my less than optimal eyesight.
    The first bit went around the outside of the stadium and there was a nasty headwind for a bit of this. Then we peeled off and went on a long dogleg, which culminated in a hairpin turn. On the way back there was one path that had funky lanterns above it that cast spots across the path and as it was windy, this were swirling around and messed with my head. It was like trying to run through a fun house. I was careful to keep my eyes on the runner in front on subsequent laps but suffice to say I didn't much like this stretch.
    I was still feeling OK after two laps so decided to stay on for the full 10. I figured it wasn't going to be a PB due to the wind but I would do as well as I could. My SI joint pain seemed to ease the longer I ran so I just got on with it. A couple of my mile splits were slower than I wanted - the ones where the wind was bad - but I found something for the last mile and was able to keep pushing. However, I still seemed to be a good way from the finish when I got to mile 6 (I work in miles, even in metric races. I'm old, OK?) In the end, my Garmin measured it as 6.4 miles and while Garmin is not always to be trusted, it definitely seemed longer than the Battersea 10K where I set my PB. Scott also concurred that it was long.
    I finished in 52:07, which is a couple of minutes shy of that PB but, given the wind, my blasted pelvis and the long course, I'm happy enough with that. I felt strong and I'm content I gave it my best shot. And the medal is very nice, which was the whole reason I entered.

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

     

    Cheers AWC. As is said to Jools that would be my back up, although I suspect it would also be big enough to be cancelled if London was hit.

    Jools you’re going very well this week.

    John – I reckon you will be joined by a few other latecomers in Canberra. Lots of chat about it on IRP yesterday. Not bad with the second half offering company – as long as people don’t get in the way, I suppose.

    Excited to see what the 10k brings for you, hamo. No need for you or HA to apologise to each other – this kind of discussion is really good.

    Good effort in the night time 10k, Cal. 8M recover in the morning a little self-sabotaging if truly keen for a PB? Although you will certainly know what has worked well for you in the past. I reckon that is a very good time on a long course, in the dark, with an injury.

     

     

    Standard Wednesday of light lunch then some kind of tempo an hour later. 80 minutes including 45 minutes of 3 mins MP – 10-15s/M, 3 mins MP + 10-15s/M. Quite a nice way of breaking up a MP /tempo slog. Difficult to know, but probably averaged around 6:40s for an effort above MP on average. Overall was 11.4M at 7:11 pace.

    There is obviously lots of chat of CV19 and cancelled races. It brings home to me the importance of enjoying the training process – at least most of the time.


  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    SQ - Nice tempo run there. Agreed, if Manchester is cancelled, I don't know if I'll do another, but I have enjoyed this training block so far.
    Jools - you seem to be doing well with the mileage.
    TR - Nice miles before the half!
    Macca - Hope Nike sort your issue.
    Cal - nice 10k considering the AM run.
    Hamo/AWC - Always good to hear peoples opinions on training.

    12 miles with 5*1,200m today. Reps were 4:38/4:28/4:25/4:36/4:33, not below my 6 min mile target, but got it done.
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    just a quick check in to say that most of my shoes are patched up with Shoe-goo. I tend to wear out the outside of the forefoot on all of mine and a quick patch up gets another 100+ miles on each pair.

    Rubber used for the outsole on the earlier Nike Zoom Fly / vapor fly 4% was awful. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well done Steve.

    SQ, I usually run the morning before an evening race though usually it's been a 4 mile leg loosener. I was conscious of the fact this should be peak week (though I expect Manchester will be cancelled now) and I should try to get more miles in midweek as I won't be able to run on Sunday. Anyway, wasn't a target race - just one I did for fun.

    Agree about the training process. I will continue to run, races or no. Having said that, if they cancel parkrun, I'm going to be pretty upset - that's something I look forward to every week.

    Easy 6 miles today. SI joint is giving my grief still but I knew it'd feel better once I got warmed up and into the run (which it did). An unpleasant icy wind dissuaded me from running any further, though.
    Oh and if anyone thinks I'm being a bit blase about my back, it's because it's happened before and I know the best way to deal with it is just suck it up and get on with it. It'll ease up in a week or so.
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