Shades Marathon Training

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Comments

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, nice one about the your run.  Shame about the segments for you then.  It's £4 a month (when billed annually) which isn't too bad I suppose if you want to upgrade to see those features.  

    Rcouture, sounds like you're similar to me trying to find patterns in the lead up to decent runs!  On that run I did on Tuesday where I was flying down the hills and really thought there was an error, that was in the afternoon whereas usually I feel I run better in the mornings.  It was partly that run that prompted me to do a MAF test the morning afterwards, together with the fact that the conditions were perfect that morning.

    Cal, another good run there from you.  I suppose it doesn't that make much difference, but when we do a similar hilly-loop session at the running club, we're told to push along the top bit too, and then just use the downhill for recovery.

    Shades, one thing I am finding is that my Garmin isn't holding its charge as long since using the HR monitor.  I think it would be okay for up to around 5hrs but I don't think it would last me for the DD, for example.  When we get back to racing I very much would like to see my HR stats for 5k/Half and full marathon on a flatfish course, just as a reference point for afterwards really.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    X-post Shades, yes, I was hoping to get to about 80ish, but I've decided to take a rest day today.  I am feeling fine but legs just a bit tired, so I don't want to overcook it.  I've done 42 miles in 3 days so far which is a lot for me, so a day off won't hurt, and all being well I'll get to 70ish by the end of the week.  OH is off today so we'll go for a nice walk somewhere later on.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I have been running with an HR for over 10 years so can't compare battery usage with or without the HRM.   But that seems an extraordinarily low amount of time for a recent Garmin to hold charge, I take it you aren't wearing your HRM all day?  ;)    I think there are things you can stop to extend the battery life, like some of the notifications.

    You definitely do the best typos...flatfish course  :D

    Yes, stats like that are really useful, I keep a note of my mile splits and HR on my spreadsheet for all my races.

    I'm not surprised your legs are a little tired, 70ish will be a great week.

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Big G, you mentioned that before. The common loop I use is a bit like a thin pear, with the wide bit at the bottom and narrow at the top (and when I say narrow, it's 0.05 miles, whereas the uphill path is a third of a mile). The hill actually flattens out before I turn on to the short path across the top so today I pushed along that section before the turn.
    I am trying to maintain a reasonable pace on the downhill (I'm not bombing it, just not going too slowly) as I need to get better at descents, as I lack confidence going down hills.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I think I got this watch in Aug 2017 so as you say it's not that old really.  I think all the notifications are turned off, but I'll have a look.  Ha ha, no I don't wear the HR monitor strap all day :)   Usually it lasts a lot longer than though without the HR strap connected.  It's not really an issue for me I suppose as it will last a marathon if I want to wear it for that, but maybe not DD or a 6hr event.  I wonder if it's because I've got the HR constantly displayed and updating on the watch?  When I'm racing I wouldn't do that so I wonder if that may help with the battery?  Don't know.  Funnily enough I did see a very good deal on the model up from my watch a couple of weeks ago and I was tempted to get it and stick in the drawer at home until this one dies.  The model up has the wrist sensor which I wouldn't use for training but would be kind of useful for around the house, checking resting HR or walking etc, to glance at.  But I was sensible and didn't buy it as this one is fine for what I need and by the time it dies there will probably be other deals around anyway. 

    Cal, sorry, obviously repeating myself over the weeks :)  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I can't really see how having your HR displayed when running would make any difference, maybe a regular alarm/light/notification would make a difference.   After all there are various screens you can have with many options, I'm sure the more screens and data you have set up would make no difference to battery usage, would it?   

    I switched off the wrist HR on mine as that radiates a green light so thought that would use unnecessary battery life and I found it irritating.

    You have been running a lot more lately so maybe it seems that you're having to recharge a lot more often.   Or your Garmin could be on it's way out, often first sign is not holding charge so well.   

    I'm sure you could treat yourself with all those recent refunds ;)
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Cal - Nice hill work. 

    Shades - Nice 8 miles. You reminded me that we have a car, haven’t used it for almost 3 months!

    Big G - So far the only patterns I can say for sure is that heat is bad, music is bad and coffee is bad, the rest seems completely random! All I know is that I’m increasingly convinced this is the right approach for me for the foreseeable future. 

    Got an email from Brighton. They say nothing of value except that they’ll get back to us in June with an update and that there would be enough capacity for the 2021 race if 2020 gets cancelled even for those who choose not to purchase entries now. Sounds like a fiasco in the making. 
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G - Good to see a nice improvement in your MAF test.
    Ian - Nice run.
    Cal - Nice running.
    Easy week this week, so cutting back mileage and pace. So ran 8/5/10 miles the last 3 days. Keeping HR to what HADD would say is my easy pace (<125), runs have been;
    8 miles @ 9:56 min/miles @ 118 bpm
    5 miles @ 9:46 min/miles @ 116 bpm
    10 miles @ 9:35 min/miles @ 121 bpm

    Might continue to run this way for a few weeks and add in a ILTHR run at 135-140 bpm and see what happens.

    Shades - on the ILTHR runs are you just doing the whole 10 miles at that HR or do you do a warm up/cool down?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Rcouture - I'm only using my car once a week for the food shop but don't want the battery to go flat so drive a circular route of about 4 miles to go to the shop half a mile away.

    I'm OK with caffeine pre run re HR but I expect I have a high tolerance to caffeine as I drink a lot of coffee.  You're right heat is bad, high humidity is worse!   And anything that makes me cross, if I see a cyclist on the pavement coming towards me my HR rockets :# :smile: 

    I think Brighton will be OK re numbers, I think they have quite a high permit allowance of entrants.   But will be interesting to see how they cope if 2020 is cancelled.

    Steve - I treat the ILTHR like a tempo run, 1m easy warm up and 1m easy cool down, but I might as well skip the cool down as sometimes I can't get my HR back down to BT before I get home, so I end up running slower in the last mile but still at ILTHR HR. :/   But I only do up to about say 5 miles at ILTHR pace at the moment.  I increase the miles at ILTHR gradually over the weeks depending on cardiac drift and sometimes it feels hard at that HR so I know I'm not up to doing 10 miles yet. 
     
    I haven't been doing too many ILTHR runs lately as I've been doing a lot of hilly routes and treating it like an interval session at ILTHR pace, allowing my HR to get up to a max of 80% MHR on the uphills.   I enjoy that more than an ILTHR on the flat.    I'm trying not to lose all my leg strength that I gained in the gym.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Interesting stats there Steve.  It jumped out to me that your 10 miler was the quickest pace at not that much higher HR.

    Rcouture, like Shades I drink a lot of coffee.  I know I keep going on about it but when I did that route where I was flying down the hills the other day, I'd just had a couple off decent (i.e, strong!) coffees before I went out.  I do try and avoid coffee after about 3pm or 4pm if I can.  That fast Yorkshire chap I posted the interview for doesn't drink coffee and sounded like he used to find restricting that tough, but I pretended not to hear that bit ;) 

    Shades, yeah, I don't know how it works regarding the HR and displaying on the watch.  Maybe things like displaying pace and time are more efficient some how, as the pace is only updated every few seconds?  I'd be totally guessing though as I've no idea how it works technically.  Or as you say it could be that my watch is on its way out and it's just coincided with me using the HR strap.  I have the Garmin 230 and a couple of weeks ago I saw the Garmin 235 for £129, which was very good value.  Just checked now and the cheapest I can see it is £149, which is still good value.  Edited to add that places seem to be out of stock at that price now.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - maybe check a couple of forums re battery life of your Garmin.

    I suppose the 235 is now superseded by another model?

    When I bought my 45 I initially chose the 235 and they were out of stock then and that was from the Garmin stand at the expo.  I was there right after opening so very limited stock then.

    £149 is a good price.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - Thanks for that, makes sense to not jump in at 10 miles from the off!!
    Big G - Thanks. My HR did increase over the run, but I was trying to keep it below 122 ish for most of the run.

    I've been trying to keep HR below 122, as that is 50 from my max. But not too different to the 125 given by HADD. However I'm not sure how useful this will be as I know when I'm training well I can run 8:30 pace for 130 bpm over 14/15 miles.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - you know your MHR don't you, you had a test?

    Might be an idea to do a Hadd test if you fancy it, use a flat road circuit if you don't have access to a track.   Will give you an idea of where your LTH is right now, you probably have a good idea anyway.   Apart from the stats make a record of how you feel at each HR and in later tests you should be able to feel as your LTH edges higher.  If you can't run at the highest HR in the test, don't worry, initially you're looking for improvement at the lower HRs.   I've never run at the highest and not even managed the next one down except for a couple of times, and not always for the full 1.5 miles either.  You might have more chance than me as you do a fair amount of speedwork, I seem to only be able to run my fastest pace in a race.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Very much enjoyed my rest day, although I did have two breakfasts still :) Also, one of our favourite cafes over in Brixham is trialling a takeaway service so we thought we’d go over and see what is like - the people who run it are very considerate and they’d put lots of measures in place to make everyone as safe as they could. It was very nice seeing somewhere a bit different for the first time in weeks, and we had a takeaway lunch as well, whilst sat looking out over the headland. These aren’t my pics but it’s stunning over there and the few people around everyone were very aware of the distancing rules.   We went for a short walk afterwards as well.

    I went to see my Dad for the first time in weeks too - he’s in desperate need of a hair cut!!  I took some cake over so he was pleased about that.  I also took his car for a drive as it’s not moved for weeks. 

    Planning an early night tonight and hoping to get out earlyish for a 7-10-miler in the morning so I’m hoping the rest day as done me good. I have to say, I feel fine. 


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    RCouture-My best runs are always after work,possibly because my body is used to it now,I'm not getting up at crazy times like Steve just to run.
    Shades-I can see why it can be damaging,I like to use it to see my improvement and it's good why the wife is training to show her her improvements,esp as she doesnt always see it herself.
    Big G-You're right,its only £48 a year,its nothing in the grand scheme of things,about 15p/day,I'll probably upgrade at some point,think it's the principle.
    Cal-Good hill session,I'm sure you will but take the 6th day easy as you get used to it.I did it for 4 weeks and just had a couple of 5 day weeks before going back to 6 again.
    Usual enjoyable 9 mile run after work, weather was great again,but looks like we have heavy wind in the next couple of days.
    Shades-Is it usual to see a big drop,quite suddenly,in March my regular pace was around 8.10-20 for my runs,in the last few weeks it has dropped to around 7.50!!! It feels like I'm at about the same effort level,would you say its just the extra mileage along with a bit of weight dropping? It seems a big drop to me.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Nice photos, Big G. I'm sure your dad appreciated the cake.
    Ian, that does seem a lot! Could be a number of things, all contributing. But I'd be happy with that.

    27 degrees in my flat before I went to bed so another disturbed night with lots of waking, so I didn't feel particularly rested when I got up around half four. Took a little longer with my warm-up today so out a bit later than the last two days, but still before 6. Did 6 miles at recovery pace, which was 11:30ish today. It felt really, really slow, but I guess that's the point. It was still really warm (18 degrees) when I went out but there was a bit of a breeze which I was grateful for. Weekend should be more tolerable but looks to be warm again next week. I really wish I hadn't bought a big bag of baking potatoes as it's too warm to put my oven on.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you'll be running your way through quite a few calories with all these miles so nothing wrong with 2 breakfasts.

    Glad you got to see your Dad and he's OK, apart from needing a haircut.

    Ian5 said:

    Shades-Is it usual to see a big drop,quite suddenly,in March my regular pace was around 8.10-20 for my runs,in the last few weeks it has dropped to around 7.50!!! It feels like I'm at about the same effort level,would you say its just the extra mileage along with a bit of weight dropping? It seems a big drop to me.
    Ian - IMHO yes, it's quite usual to see what seems a sudden improvement.  I think we all assume that any changes will be gradual but often there can be little difference for quite a while and then suddenly a significant improvement.   You might also notice the same with your resting heart rate.  The improvement is everything coming together at the right time, good consistent training, decent mileage, health good - no colds/viruses, loss of any excess fat and no races that you need to recover from.  

    I would suggest that you record absolutely everything in your training diary, as at some time in the future you might be less fit than you are now and want to recreate this training period to get back to this peak form.   So not just run details, but weigh yourself daily - not for weight watching purposes - just as a way of making sure your rehydrating fully so any tiredness is not due to dehydration.   Resting heart rate, same time every day, preferably before getting out of bed in the morning.   How each run feels and when you take a rest day is it due to tiredness or just a normal rest day.

    We're all individuals, if only it was as easy as pulling off a training plan and sticking to it to reach our peak fitness.   But we're all different and what works for one person doesn't work for another, that's the info in your training diary that you'll never find in a book.

    My best year of running was 2010 and I still have that training diary and I often look back at it to see how often I trained, mileage and every other detail as that year I really found out what worked for me.   Although I have the data on a spreadsheet too, nothing replaces those notes saying it felt easy or that when I did a marathon PB I knew I could go faster.   That's the the kind of stuff you do forget in time.

    Cal - 27 degrees, that is really not comfortable for sleeping, not surprised you had a restless night.    Hasn't been that warm down here, thankfully.


    8 miles this morning, first hilly run of the week, 681 feet, I've had a bit of a twinge in my calf so have avoided anything more than usual Devon undulations, but calf was fine.   We had rain last night so although it was warmer this morning the dry dustiness has gone.  Breezy in places but that was quite pleasant.



  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    That's great news Ian.  It's all coming together for you.

    Cal, that is warm!

    7-miles for me this morning, out early again for me (6:10am).  It was a bit blustery in places but I had a nice run out along the seafront, which will be a no-go zone in a few hours time if it gets hot again.  I'm hoping for a second run in the afternoon to get the mileage up to 11 or 12ish for the day.

    OH has been getting into a bit more exercising at home, using Davina McCall's website since lockdown.   She's not overweight anyway, but she's lost 18cm and 5kg overall so she's very pleased with that.  After a lot of research finding the cheapest places, she bought some dumbbells and later a kettlebell from Argos, and she's really enjoying it and says the Davina programme is really good - it suits her as there are all sorts of classes and although some of it is live, she can do whatever class she wants whenever she wants.  It's not the same as a proper class I suppose, but she said the instructors on there are really good and explain about posture etc etc.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - your OH must have been working hard to achieve those results in a relatively short time, most impressive.  Especially as she's still been going to work too.
    Going to a real class wouldn't necessarily be any better, instructors aren't able to correct everyone's posture etc as they just can't get round to everyone.

    My leisure centre are running classes every day on line but I haven't bothered, even if I had my internet connected to my TV I still wouldn't do it.  I have designed a home workout but I struggle to get that interested doing stuff at home.   When I had an exercise bike I only used it to hang the ironing on.  :/ 
    I am still doing my core tabata but that's only 12 minutes a day.   It's the gym I'm missing most.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-OH does classes like that a few times a week,she had done them for years and loves it.
    Shades-That's a good idea about keeping track,think it's a combination of everything coming together at the same time.
    Might not end up running today,winds are over 40mph at minute and it sounds really bad,will see if it fades later.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Ian - That's a great pace improvement.
    Shades - Yes had a test a few years ago (I think!), so got my max from there.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I just put my oven on for 40 mins and it's really upped the temperature in my flat so I can understand your dilemma with the potatoes.

    Maybe chop them into wedges, they'd be done in 30 minutes that way.


    Steve - that's good you don't have to put yourself through an MHR test.

    Ian - hope you haven't got blown away.  Just a light breeze down here.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Wind was horrific all day,no chance I was chancing running in that.Will mean my first 4 day running week in about 10 weeks but the right decision.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Ian - Didn’t realise the wind was that strong in parts of the country today, where do you live?

    7 miles for me today on usual route. Lots of parties and barbecues in the park/common. This last week feels like a proper relaxation of lockdown in London at least. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Bad luck Ian. It’s wasn't too bad down here with the wind.

    Rcouture - the beach and promenade was busy here over the last few days too.

    6.5 miles this afternoon, after a day doing stuff in the garden.  I've made a large storage box out of old decking for OH's gardening paraphernalia, to stop it all blowing around in the wind!  The run wasn't the best as I nearly tripped over a yappy Jack Russell and although I was running slowly I stumbled a bit to avoid it, hurting my ankle slightly, but I'm hoping it'll be fine in the morning.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - an extra day's rest will do you no harm.   It's unusual at this time of year to have weather that stops us running.

    Rcouture - there's so many people around now I keep forgetting about lockdown.

    Big G - in a few years you and OH will be looking at the garden and saying the year that all that work was done was the year there were no marathons.  :/

    Those ouch moments going over on the ankle really hurt.   If you're not sure if it's OK just tape it up for your run as a precaution.


    5 easy miles this morning, breezy in places but sunny and fresh.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, fortunately ankle felt okay, so I went out for 7.5 miles today.  I've never had this before but about 2 miles from home, part of the sole of my shoe started to come away and it was flapping.  It's usually the tops that go on my shoes.  I can't complain though as they've done 726 miles.  I can cut the broken part away and turn them into gardening shoes :)  

    Ian, it's not the same as segments but on Fetch they have a utility where you can create a mile "segment" from any route you've done.

    Speaking of Fetch, the forum seems active over there too with lots of comments.    A few user names I recognise from RW, who don't post much here any more.  If ever RW do pull the plug here, I think we should jump ship over to there.  Since 6:30am, 27 threads have been commented on whereas over here, it's only this thread that has been commented on in that time frame, by Shades and now myself. 
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ian, glad it's not like that down here. There's a bit of a breeze and that's it.
    Rcouture - I've been avoiding the commons after 7am but I can see a huge increase in litter. People are pigs.
    Big G - little dogs are the bane of my running life! I call them trip dogs. Hope your ankle is OK.
    Shades - same weather here. Hopefully I will get a better night's sleep tonight. It's going to get hotter again next week.

    Today is virtual 5K day and, between a week of rubbish sleep, the hills on Thursday and the extra running day yesterday, I knew I wasn't going to be on top form so I took the opportunity to try a new route. It's not actually a new running route, just a new 5K route, which is a lap and a bit of Wandsworth Common.
    Did my 2 mile warm-up including some strides, then set off. Felt quite fast to start with but I hit the first mile in 8:19 which isn't great. Decided not to look at my watch again until I finished. I thought I was maintaining an OK pace and I would run 25:xx so I was quite horrified to come in at 26:41. I've done better than that on some hilly parkruns, and the common is flat. It definitely didn't feel as slow as that but I guess there's some cumulative fatigue there.
    Oh well, we can't be awesome every week!
    I'm doing the virtual Masters Relays next month so think I'll have to taper a bit.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    RCouture-I'm on the Wirral,generally we dont get extremes in weather here,but it can get windy if it comes off the Irish sea as we are very near the front.
    Few trees down today,luckily none affected my route to work.
    Big G-The bad thing about fetch having that many is the thread can easily get lost.
    Saturday is now my rest day as I work 8-6 so undecided what to do tomorrow,will be fully refreshed so either another long one or a MP session.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, that is true.  The majority of them seem long standing threads though with a few thousand posts, although most don't seem to be especially about running.  Mind you, it was like that on RW a few years ago.  There were some cracking threads - some really funny characters.  There was a chap called Samir who immediately springs to mind, he was a great runner but stated he wanted to be an Olympian and started talking about his "pavement PBs".  It was hilarious, but in fairness he took all the stick he got in (generally) good humour.  I remember one time he went out leading Reading Half marathon for about 1min, and then blew up spectacularly.
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