Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - that's never happened to any of my shoes either, thankfully you weren't too far from home.   You've had some decent mileage out of those shoes anyway.   There is some stuff called Shoe Gloo I think that hardcore runners use to eek out a few more miles from knackered shoes.

    A lot of Fetchies used to be RW Forumites, at one time Fetch was owned by RW.   I've had an email from Mr Fetch asking if my club would like a Zoom meeting with him while he demonstrates the training logs etc of Fetch, the email is titled 'No Paywall, Ever'.  He does say that there's a good blog on DC Rainmaker's website about the Strava changes.

    I thought we'd already decided months/years ago that we would migrate to Fetch when RW pull the forum from their website, we needed to make the decision as I don't expect we'll get any notice when it does go.


    Cal - sorry to hear you're going to have that awful hot weather again, we should be OK 20/21 next week down here which is fine, 11 at night which is OK too.


    Ian -  on Fetch you can put a Watch on your favoured threads and if there any posts since your last visit it will show when you visit the home page.

    Back when RW forum was busier it was ten times busier that Fetch is now.   I had a job where I could pop onto the forum and it was a real struggle to keep up with all the posts and new threads.  You could easily spend 4 hours a day on there.  :o   There would be a thread for every marathon, loads of info and quite a few forumite meet ups at races etc.


  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ha ha my favourite thread was the guy who got his race bib and asked why there was no number and just three lines. You can probably guess the rest.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I remember that one, I don't have it bookmarked to share :D , it was so funny 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I had a similar job where I could go on to RW when I was quiet at work.....  I think Facebook is where many people go these days for running groups, but it's nowhere near as good as a proper forum like Fetch or RW because you can't have long standing threads easily.  Regarding Fetch, the original owner/creater bought it back off of RW I think, didn't he?

    Cal, I remember that thread as well :D   On one of the threads there was a guy who was really good at creating cartoons and he created one of a Scotch Egg running, that was supposed to resemble a regular forum poster.  It was so funny.

    I have just seen Gobi pop up over there.  Do you know him in real life, Shades?  It was him that had that very simplistic training plan that went something like:
    - run 40 miles a week, all easy, except race 5k/parkrun once a week.
    - continue doing this until you stop getting PBs at the 5k
    - repeat the process at 50 miles per week, and keep upping the miles until you've got no more time to train more often.
    - Then, introduce some speed work.

    The simplistic nature of that appealed to me!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - yes when RW pulled out of running this forum etc they sold Fetch back to Ian.   Newer posters would find it hard to believe but we had RW staff on call here to sort any issues, normal office hours.  You're right FB is no good for forums, it's toxic.

    Yes, I've met Gobi at a few races, you'd never forget if you'd met him as he's got one of the loudest voices, nice friendly guy.   He used to run a lot more than that, think he was doing 100mpw stuff, good ultra runner, think he cycles a lot now.

    We had a simpler training plan on here 0-100mpw in I think 10 weeks, don't think I've got a copy of it now.   A few of the guys tried it out.   I'll try and find it.
  • Morning all
    BG - Er I can't do any marathon currently without either charging during if i want HR data or i have to turn it off with my 235. Been like that for some time but doing longer stuff i've always had the equipment to charge on the run with a USB powerstick. Less said about the highly variable sleep tracking which def works with HR on but is somewhat random in terms of no HR being on and whether it works or not. Both ways was a tad dubious as if i get up then settle down for brekkie tv etc before work it frequently claimed i was in bed still.
    Gobi ah yes i think only met him at Abingdon and i knew where he was marshalling a good distance away from the actual location ;)
    5 miles or so this morning in the wind prob using the park run route tomorrow or monday as we seem to have a strava club for work and they doing virtual 5k's so why not. Less windy tomorrow so more likely to do it then as i can get my daily fetch point bug by bilke if needs be.
    On strava i have the premium version which is £40 a year and obviously also use fetch which you can voluntarily donate to which i also do @ £10 a month.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Interesting about the Garmin there, Keith.  If you don't have the HR strap connected, does the battery tend to last quite a lot longer?
  • BG - The 235 is wrist measured although it can connect to other things such as chest strap or foot pods. Just highlighting a similar battery life issue when operating HR measurement. In practic yours shou;d suffer far less as its merely data reading where as mine is powering the sensor. I caveat with mine was bought more or less when it launched so is 4.5 years or so old now.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    So when did the RW forums start tailing off? I found this thread via asking a pretty generic running question in google and it was one of the first entries. 

    7 miles on usual route. Fastest time by a couple of secs despite it being pretty blowy so progress continues. Will go out again tomorrow for 40ish miles for the wk. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Rcouture, I think it was about 4 or 5 years ago when RW changed to this forum layout but they botched the "upgrade".  For example, after the upgrade it wasn't easy for a user to see their most popular threads, and for newbies they also couldn't start (they still can't) a new thread.  This was probably to help stop spam, but it means that new users can't easily ask a new question (spam wasn't much of an issue on the old forum because RW had given a few regular users admin privileges to delete spam, which kept the site clean).  It was just quite difficult to navigate initially and there was no real support from any admins.  It took some time for the forum to become more usable and to iron the usability issues out, but by that time lots had left.  I can't remember exactly when this was off hand but it was probably around 4 or 5 year ago I think.  Well done on the mileage!

    I did my regular route 7-mile yesterday and had a fantastic run out, including a comparatively blistering mile in the middle.  My fastest time by quite a margin on that route.

    This morning the plan is to walk to work with OH and then run from there if I can.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, thanks, I'll have a look at that link.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - that makes sense re the optical using a lot of battery life.   With my 45 when I put it on the windowsill to pick up a signal I could see this green light flashing from the back and immediately thought that it would use a lot of power so turned off the optical HR.  Never use it anyway, always take my RHR manually and I don't need a watch to tell me if I sleep well, or not. 🥱
    It is possible to have the batteries replaced in a Garmin isn't it?   Not sure if it's worth it.

    I don't think I've ever met anyone as loud as Gobi :) 

    For anyone that doesn't use Fetch Keith is modelling his nice Fetch top in his avatar pic.  Fetch has it's own  UKA affiliated running club for those that want to be in a club but not go to club training ;) 

    Ian - thanks for the link.   I don't know why but I just can't take to Bekele, fine runner but I don't like him.  I didn't make it through the whole video.

    Rcouture - well you're managing 40 mpw very well and you're making significant progress on the HR training too.

    Re forum, exactly as Big G has said.   But even before they changed the software the forum was much quieter, I think with smartphones and FB folk weren't that interested anymore.  The new software has made it worse, it's not good when using a smartphone, for instance, I can't get  Recent Discussions on the menu when using my phone, in fact the menu on the phone doesn't even have Forum you have to go to the home page and select from there so doesn't invite users to visit other threads.

    Big G - sounds like that was a brilliant run you had yesterday.


    12 miles for me this morning, flat/undulating route and just one hilly bit, lovely fresh morning.   
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I never do the crap anniversary stuff on FB but couldn't resist this as when I was out running this morning I remembered where I was this time last year.   Such a beautiful marathon....





  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Big G, that's about right - I was still teaching when the forums changed and I left there in 2015. Glad you had a good run!

    Rcouture - nice work - it was rather windy yesterday. It wasn't bad when I did my 5K in the morning but it picked up a lot later.

    Shades, nice 12. Which marathon was that? It looks very scenic.

    I had another virtual Phoenix event to do and settled on a half marathon as I didn't want to do much more this week due to the extra day of running (the half would take me to 55 miles for the week).
    Rather glad I joined Strava recently as I've found looking at other people's runs is a fantastic way to find new routes. One of my clubmates did a lovely looking run so I decided to try and follow some of it, combining it with a section of the Wandle Trail. I decided not to go down to the earlier part of the trail from Earlsfield as that would make it a longer run than I wanted, especially if I got a bit lost later on. Instead I started at my usual spot in Collier's Wood (a two mile run by the most direct route from my house), up the trail to Morden Hall Park, through there and on to Hackbridge. I went a bit further than I went last time but not quite as far as I planned as the trail as I got to a biggish road and went left instead of crossing it to get to another section of the trail. I did find a footpath that took me onto my clubmate's route, though I missed out Beddington Park entirely, which I had intended to explore (it'll be the site of the next London parkrun, whenever that starts back up again).
    I ran on a trail for a while - you'd hate it, Shades, as it's quite pebbly - before ending up on a section of Mitcham Common I hadn't run on before. There were some ponies there - not sure if they were traveller ponies but as my clubmate had photographed them I knew I'd gone the right way.
    From there I headed back through Mitcham. There's a pond there and I saw a swan family - mum, dad and a lot of fuzzy cygnets. Didn't manage to count them but it was definitely more than 6!
    Ran back up the big hill to Tooting Common - not Church Road this time but the one next to it, Rectory Lane - and home from there. A nice urban trail half.
    Easy pace for most of it but did a couple of sub-10s on the homeward stretch, including the hill. 2 hours 17:12 so pretty leisurely, though still a minute quicker than my first ever half from back in 2010!
  • So did my virtual 5k this morning using the Whitehaven course being its as local as you can get to a parkrun without it being outside the front door :p
    Wasn't too bad 27:47 although amusingly pace died off for last part mile compared to before.... I need someone to chase basically ;) That and i had a few people to blast thru at the end. Technically it ranks as 5th out of the 9 times i have done it now so its fine for now. Can maybe do better if i cheat and go up the cycle track as a warm up then come thundering back down using a net downhill course. Ran for the warm up and walked home.
    Fetch have widened its badges into walking albeit there is no actual spot that tells me how many miles i have walked ever or at least i have not found it yet. If i'm that bothered its not that hard to deal with as i can incorporate it onto my spreadsheet easily enough and its no trouble accessing annual mileage stats. Next distance target is 100 miles and i am somewhere midway between 75 and 100 cos i did 80 miles with the dog last month albeit one was a run plus 2 whole walks logged in previous years.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - it's a great time of year to find new running routes, lots to see on your run this morning too.

    That was Glendalough Lap of the Gap marathon, fabulous.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Great pics Shades.  I remember you talking about that one when you did it.

    Well done Cal and Keith on your virtual runs.

    I know I'm saying this a lot, but I was a fair bit quicker on today's 9.5 mile route again.  It's the second time I've done it since doing HR training.  It's undulating and probably some of the improvement is because I know where the hillier bits are now so slow down a bit (to get HR down) to be able to run more.  I did fade quite a bit on the last 1 mile or so though....probably I was dreaming of my second breakfast.  :)  I know at some point I'll not be making such large improvements as I am at the moment but I'm enjoying it whilst it lasts!

    Regarding my battery, probably partly what the issue is to do with is that because I'm running slower, I'm out for longer - I'm probably out for 10mins+ longer on a 10-miler, so if I do 3 or 4 of those a week, that's 30-40mins+ more battery use for the same distance.  Also, I'm doing more running/miles too.

    This morning's run gives my highest ever training miles for a week (79.3 so far), and if I go out later on for a short run it'll nudge over 80.  Legs feel good but I'll take a rest day tomorrow most likely.  OH is off and we'll go for a nice walk somewhere I expect.  I very much doubt I'll regularly do 80 miles a week, but I just wanted to see if I could, and I'm pleased I was able to get to that despite taking a rest day earlier in the week when I needed it.  In terms of marathon training there is a slight concern that nothing has been longer than 10-miles this week (the longest I've done since doing HR training has been 12 miles in one go, although I've done a couple of 15/16 mile days over two runs), but with no marathons coming up in the near future I'm not too bothered for now.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-That is one of the things I enjoy about Strava,more so since there has been less cars,makes exploring better.
    Big G-That is a massive week,well done.
    From Seville until about 3 weeks ago,all my runs were 8-12 miles and I've still improved so I wouldn't worry top much.
    Shades-Nice 12,are you starting to increase your long runs now?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - that's not a bad time running in cold blood.

    Are you working from home part of the time now?

    Big G - that's great training.  Yes, a small part of it might be more skilful control of your heart rate but that is a skill you can use in races even if not wearing a HRM.  Knowing when to not overcook the pace and prepare for what's ahead means avoiding that "wheels falling off" moment.

    Ian is right, you don't need long runs right now and certainly not when hitting your highest mileage week ever.   

    Running long can be tiring and delay improvement.   What you're doing is working very well.

    Ian - yes, I am.   I haven't been in the gym since the end of February so can't really use the gym work as an excuse any more.  So increasing by one mile a week, if I'm going to do long runs at least this is my favourite time of year for running.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Good job, Keith.
    Big G, fantastic mileage!
  • Shades - Nope not really i'm in a full week every other week then in for normally tue to thur the nominal at home week. The other two days of that week i er broadly speaking do sod all ;) I get bored at home though so i have stuff i do here now and then and if i felt like it i could probably work at work every day if i wanted to.Just not inclined to do that when a lot of others are doing nothing on their off weeks.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Bit of a rubbish one today for a change,couldn't get in the right space all day for my run,kept putting it off,eventually went out but just did 12,means I end the week on 42,which is my lowest for 10 weeks.Had a very hectic week in work so will take it and move on to next week.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - well as long as you're getting paid nice to have a bit of time at home.

    Ian - not like you to put off getting out there for your run, maybe your body's way of wanting an easier week.

    If I didn't get out for my run first thing in the morning I'd probably procrastinate all day long.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Oh forgot to mention - I found the leak in my hydration bladder - looks like I'll need a new one. I took the soft flasks instead but as the weight is at the front, it causes terrible chaffing around my neck. Red raw there now despite a liberal slathering of Vaseline. Bah.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - having to carry fluids is a bloody nuisance.

    Can you buy just the bladder part to replace the leaking one?

    I remember you saying about the flask vest chafing before.   I guess that's only going to be of use to you when in winter kit so not next to skin.

    I have a Karrimor bottle belt, cheap and comfy to wear, but I still hate carrying anything.  Next week I'm doing 13 so will probably take a drink but I'll just dump a bottle in the hedge at a mile or two on the way out and pick it up to drink on the way back
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Yeah, just ordered one. Looking at the reviews, it seems to be a common problem - the bladders only last so long. I did wear a short-sleeved T rather than a vest today but still got some rubbing.
    I have a bottle belt but the bottles are small (not enough for a summer 20 miler, that's for sure) and I hate the way it moves around my waist. That's why I got the vest instead.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, well done for getting out for 12 when you didn't really fancy it.  42 is still very decent and if that's the lowest for 10 weeks it's another marker of how consistent you've been recently.

    Cal/Shades, the talk of bottles and bladders was on my mind the other day, with regards to HR training.  When I'm feeling good one day I *may* take one out to see how it impacts HR/pace.  I reckon a 2L Camelbak, plus the bag itself, will slow me down quite a bit.  I'm basing this on when I've tried to "race" a marathon with one on (City to Sea) and although I didn't have a HR monitor on I'm sure my heart rate was elevated more than usual.

    Anyway, 3-miles this afternoon.  To be honest, I didn't really want to go out but I'm probably not going to be in the position many times where I'll have an 80+ week.  So it had to be done :)  
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-It's usually my days off I struggle to get out,when I run after work I have a routine so it's straight forward but days off I have nothing to do.
    Big G-Yes I had a look before and the last 6 weeks,my lowest was 53 and highest 64 I think so pretty consistent.
    My 2 monthly record was 384 miles and I'm already on 436 so well past it with a week to go.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that's good it was easy to get the bladder replacement, I suppose they perish over time.

    Ian - I guess we're all better with a routine/plan.    I always have my mileage planned for the week otherwise I'd probably do more shorter runs, not that I always stick to the plan but it's there as a guide.

    Big G - I knew you'd go out again for another run!!   Next time check your mileage before your final morning run of the week and adding on 0.7 wouldn't have been so bad ;) 

    I'm sure you'll have plenty opportunity to do high mileage weeks,  if you want to of course.

    Re fluids for your running, I know as yet we haven't had the really hot and humid weather, but you've probably already noticed that you don't get as warm/sweaty and dehydrated with base training as you're running at a lower intensity than usual.   That's why I have to wear more kit in the winter as I don't get so warm.     Running with a 2 litre camelbak is probably the equivalent of 3 pounds of dead weight (like fat) but then you drink the fluid as you run, don't think you would notice any different in HR.   Would you normally take 2 litres of fluid with you for a long run?

    8 miles this morning, back to light winter kit as it was only 7 degrees when I went out.   Lovely fresh morning.   I startled a pheasant in a very narrow road and he tried to fly over the hedge but the tree was too high for him and he ended up back on the road in front of me.   He then panicked and started screeching and then ran in a couple of circles and then ran away from me as fast as he could, really funny as he was running just like the road runner cartoon and his little legs were going like windmills.

    There was a big fire just round the corner from where I live yesterday.  It's a children's nursery in a beautiful old house and the owners live in the next house, it's semi detached.   So I ran back that way, awful to see such a lovely building damaged, nobody was hurt and all the animals saved, I believe they have miniature donkeys there.    There's still a little smoke from the smouldering roof, the fire brigade are still there.
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