Shades Marathon Training

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  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Morning all! 

    Mamafox: have you tried Avon so soft to deter the flies? I've been using it the past few days and it's been fabulous. 

    Shades: we're due to have that rain this afternoon apparently? It's so humid here, it's horrid. 

    12k for me this morning. A little rushed as I needed to get home. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - if he was given the shoes then adidas would have been happy to send correctly fitting shoes as they want a good review.   You always have to be cautious of reviews from freebies, some of the running shoe review websites now say that the tester purchased the shoe so is unbiased on that count anyway.


    Emmy - that Avon So Soft is amazing stuff, daren't go anywhere near Scotland at this time of year without it, so effective against midges.

    Despite the rain, it's still humid here, we have a few more days with a bit of rain.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Shades: its really be useful with the flies in the forest this week. I ran by the canals this morning and it was so refreshing. My run was at 100% humidity which I didn't realise until I was back. 

    Hopefully it'll be a bit refreshing too? 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Yeah, that's right Shades.  He does seem impartial though, but you're right and I am cautious as well.  He's quite open about it though, and he's trying to be transparent with how he scores the shoes.  He has 10 aspects of the shoe (lockdown, midsole, weight, price, durability, fit  etc) and he scores each one, and he's got a description/matrix on how he scores each aspect.  He does a first review and then if he likes a shoe he takes it to 50-miles and does a 50-mile review.  Not all shoes get to 50 miles as he hasn't the time to take them all that far, or he just doesn't like the shoe.  Sometimes he just does a 50-mile review if he hasn't time to do a first review.  It is a business and I think YouTube is basically his main job and I am aware of that, but he comes across as genuine to me anyway.

    When the Salazar stuff broke he did a vlog about it, and was stood in there in his Team USA Nike-branded top, but was still critical.  He does seem genuine.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well I watched most of that shoe review and he did say he should have ordered the right size.   He also said that he wears thin socks and likes his racing shoes a snug fit, most don't want that especially in a marathon or hot weather.   I couldn't ever watch him again, most annoying.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ha ha, Shades.  I mentioned that he's not for everyone - I quite like him though, but he's too much for me first thing in the morning. :)  All the YouTubers have their own style I guess.

    4.5 miles for me this morning and had a good run out, just to turn the legs over a bit.

    I was doing a bit of analysis on my 1k splits from last night.  I walked 3mins recovery between each one, and here is the average and max HR on each effort, and the time.
    1) 161/173bpm - 3:57
    2) 163/174bpm - 3:47
    3) 169/181bpm - 3:50
    4) 171/181bpm - 3:39
    5) 173/182bpm - 3:46

    When I was doing them I wasn't watching the HR at all as didn't have it displayed; I was just trying to keep a decent intensity but not totally overdo it, and I think I managed that in that I could have done a 6th, which was my goal.  Fitzgerald says my zone for these types of effort, based on my LT, should be 171-180, so you can see the averages didn't really hit that for the first 3.  I think if I had consciously tried to hit that, I then possibly wouldn't have felt able to do a 6th, which was also my goal to make sure I wasn't going too hard.

    To do it correctly, I suppose I should be looking at the HR when doing these sessions.  I may do it one day on a flat route, just to see what happens as a matter of interest.  Anyway, I enjoyed the session last night and felt fine this morning.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - he got off to a bad start with me as he was wearing an Ireland vest and I'm sure he doesn't run for Ireland.  ;)

    On the subject of kit and endorsements, I really liked the new Nike vests that they were wearing at the DL, the black/white and the gold ones I thought looked amazing, they all looked good though.   Not so good on the 5k winner as they hadn't given him one of the right size, but they don't get a choice I believe they have to wear what they are given.


    Re your HR and 1km times, were you supposed to walk 3 mins as recoveries?   I only ask as 3 mins is a long recovery and of course your HR drops dramatically in that time and as the interval is only 1km you're then having to crank up the HR again over a relatively short distance.   So I think that might flaw the stats for average HR.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    Good point about the walking Shades.  I'll do it again and follow a proper workout next time.  This workout was on my watch so I just followed that, and I didn't follow Fitzgerald's session.  I was going to jog the recoveries but it was really humid even last night, and really I was just using the session to get used to the shoes.  I'll do it again some time and do it properly, but I'm back to easy running for now, until my 5K at least.  I'll discount this session for now in terms of HR stats then.  

    That chap has lots of vests - he wears a Polish vest sometimes and other countries.  He's American but has Dutch or Belgian roots I believe and I think he swaps vests with other athletes.  He was in Argentina fairly recently doing something for Team USA there and he swapped vests there I think.  He did do what I thought was a great vlog involving Jim Walmsley, the ultra runner.  I think Walmsley was in Argentina for Team USA doing a trail marathon, and Seth was there doing a shorter event the day before.  On Jim's event, Seth was out on the course with his camera and got some great footage I thought. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I wasn't trying to make the session harder for you  :)

    I can remember one year running the IOM marathon and on the 2nd lap I caught up with an runner wearing full Irish kit, he was well into his late 70's.   I asked him if he ran for Ireland and he said No, he'd just borrowed the kit from a mate.   ;)

    Right off to the gym, according to the app only 9 of us booked in today which will be lovely.

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-I find his wife more irritating than him,but he has had some interesting videos over the time.
    Finished work so time to rest before the race later.
  • BG and his new shoes is a bad influence. Might have just visited wiggle and ordered a forerunner 245 music due to arrive by Thursday to work. Finally cooling down up here albeit it was more the humidity than the actual heat as we only got up to 27 i think
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Shades: that sounds lovely! 9 people? 

    Keith: I've got a 245 in the draw. I really need to get it out and use it
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I haven't seen his wife, but maybe they're a good match for each other.  ;)

    Good luck tonight, PB?

    Keith - I think blaming Big G for your shopping habits is stretching it a bit.

    But after being through the stress of possible redundancy I think you deserve to treat yourself.

    Emmy - it was lovely in the gym, cool, peaceful and everyone relaxed and enjoying our workouts.   Except for my glutes, I think tomorrow's run might be a bit of a challenge.

    Get that 245 out of the drawer, no point saving it for best. :)
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - I ordered my shoes last week from Wiggle on the Saturday and they delivered them on Monday, that was with a Thursday delivery date.  So you may not have to wait that long.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Keith, enjoy the new device :)

    Ian, best of luck tonight!

    I went out this afternoon for a 6-miler, taking me to 60 miles for the week, so I may have a rest day tomorrow (I had one earlier in the week too).  I had a fabulous run in the rain; 3 of the miles I have as "Fetch Miles" and it was the quickest I've done all of those, and the quickest overall by 3-mins (this is compared to a time I was already pretty happy with).  I'm really pleased with how it's gone the last 3 weeks or so.

    In job news, OH has been told she is keeping her job at the zoo, although will lose half a day. She’s fine with the loss of the half day, but she doesn’t seem too keen at the moment.  Probably I shouldn't go into too many details but she's just not happy with how everything has been handed.  At least she’s got options though, and it’s in her hands about what she does now. I think she’ll probably try the new structure for a couple of months and see how it goes.  She’ll also do a weekly locum slot at the practice she works at so financially she’s fine (she’s better off actually, but she’s more worried about how the zoo is going to be managed with fewer people to do what’s required). 
  • Cal it's difficult to get speed up in training runs, I'm sure when you're racing you'll step up a gear.  You've done alot of miles so should be in decent shape for the mara.

    Big G not just you keeping your new shoes dry, I have a pair of adrenalines and hurricanes that I've bought during lockdown.  Plan to break one of them in before DL mara but today they stayed dry in the wardrobe.  Hope the new structure works okay for the OH, during lockdown we've had one guy leave and another has a temp contract due up soon which will leave us short staffed but no plans to recruit.

    E mmy hope the rain breaks the humidity, been awful here during the week, glad I've not had to work.

    Ian hope the race went well

    shades, I like that you can see how busy the gym is with the app, similar with the pool, don't like to swim with more than 4 in a lane ideally.   

    Great viewing the DL, wonder if Mo will change his mind for next years olympics and revert back to the marathon?

    Went out this morning for 6 miles, feeling fitter than I have recently and didn't try putting the run off even though it was raining, usually I'd wait for it to stop.

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Nice run tonight,decoded to go at 37 pace and see how it felt,previous PB was 37:39.I knew the first half was slightly downhill and up the last 5k,each km target was 3:42,first one done in 3:21  :'( 
    Decided to go for time in the bank and got 5k in 18:06,got into a nice group with 5 of us running similar paces which kept us all going,pretty dark at the turnaround and a bit disconcerting so glad I had these to run with,kept going and at 9k I was confident of going sub 37,last km in 3:33,which is 5:42mile pace,finished in 36:42,unbelievable,measured course though,and my watch measured slightly over so looks a real time.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - brilliant PB, that's almost a minute off, at your pace that is a lot.  You must be very pleased with that. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you really are in great shape.   Just got to keep ticking over for the next 10 days until your first race post MAF.

    Well that's good news that your OH has kept her job, just have to see how the new structure works out.   

    Robert - It is good to see from the app how busy certain sessions are, although it makes no difference to my booking times as I go at the times that suit me.   I just looked at the swimming for our leisure centre and they allow 8 for each lane, slow, medium & fast.   There are family swims too that can be booked.

    I watched the rest of the DL yesterday, the 5k was phenomenal. 
    IMHO  I wouldn't be surprised if Mo retires without racing again.   I don't know what he's doing now, the only time I saw him briefly was early in lockdown and I turned on the telly and he happened to be on Saturday Kitchen via Zoom.   He was asked about the postponed Olympics and he said that was OK with him as he had a bit of an injury.   I'd like to see him run the marathon for GB, Olympics, Worlds, Commonwealth and at least make an effort to repay something to the country after having lottery funding that he doesn't need.   But I don't think he's a big enough person to race if he thought he couldn't win and mentally he's never really got to grips with the marathon, despite his good times, he could do better.   So I would expect him to say that he's had a series of injuries (that old chestnut) and will have to retire.

    Great you've got your running head back on now and not looking out the window thinking that you should go out for a run.   Get those new shoes out, they won't mind a bit of rain.   ;)


    10 miles today, brings me to another round 50 this week.   Did a tough leg/glutes session in the gym yesterday so knew today's run would be hard and it was, very hard.   Legs didn't feel too bad when I got up, but I was hungry so had some toast pre run.    I didn't really want to run a flat route today as they are all the busier routes and I like the solace and the scenery of the country lanes especially on a Sunday.   As soon as I started to run I could feel that my legs were very depleted of glycogen, did 2.5 miles undulating, 1.5 miles very hilly, 1.5 miles undulating, 1.5 miles flat, 1 mile hilly, 2 miles undulating.   Total climb 530 feet   To be honest running on the flat was as hard as running up the hills but the variety of the route helped, I had to dig deep for the last couple of miles.   Was very glad to get home.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, another fantastic race for you.  It's brilliant to see!

    Shades, yes, I'm pleased.  I'm not sure how/why but the last 3 weeks or so I haven't really had a bad/disappointing run.  When I look back to when I first started HR training on my regular routes, I've made decent progress on all of them, and these last 3 weeks I seem to have stepped on again, even though the conditions haven't always been favourable.  Another good week from you with your 50 miles and getting the gym work done too.

    With the congested nature of the cycling tour due to Covid, they're running races at the same time.  I've not seen it before, but I've heard of it, but they had Il Lombardia yesterday, which is usually on its own in the calendar I think as it's a big one-day race and attracts some big names, with Dauphine still being on at the same time.

    I entered a local-ish trail marathon yesterday, which is happening in October - Winding Paths Grand Canal Canter.  It's the same day as what Frankfurt should have been, so it'll be a bit different to that!  It's flat I think, on crushed stone with some narrow bridges etc, plus having to fill up own bottles all probably means it won't be one for me to "race" as such.  I stuck 3:45 down on the predicted time as that's the time I did on a similar sounding route near Windsor, so I won't be racing it but it should be a nice one on a route I've not done before.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Just read back about OH,like you said,at least she has options,a lot of people don't at the moment.
    Shades-Yes I am delighted and amazed at the same time.I remember seeing races with people getting times like that and thinking wow they are crazy fast,even last night I was looking around near the start and thinking they all look like very fast runners and thinking I was starting in the wrong area.
  • Ian, great job, that's a fab time!

    Big G, glad your OH still has her job. Hopefully the rest of it will work out.

    Shades, not surprised your legs felt flat after the gym session. Good on you for toughing it out.

    Rob, glad you're feeling fitter. A bit of rain never hurt anyone. It feels quite novel to run in after the heatwave.


    Now I’ve actually booked a marathon I need to work back up to 20 mile long runs. Today’s was 18, albeit a very hilly 18 (410m gain according to Garmin, or 1500 feet in Strava, which seems to exagerrate a little) which is probably worth a 20, honestly.
    First mission was to find Hell Hill, the big bastard through Dulwich Woods I’d failed to find a couple of weeks ago due to a navigation error, and I ticked it off today (it was tough, but not as bad as some of the others later in the run). That was followed by a foray into Crystal Palace park, a lap of the winter parkrun course, past the dinosaur lake (the bit with the dinosaurs was almost empty – not sure whether the weather is responsible or if they’ve drained it to do some work on the dinos) and then on to all the lovely hills – Fox Hill, Stambourne Woodland Walk, a tour of Beaulieu Heights and then Cypress Road.
    Quick tour of Grangewood Park before whizzing down the Lawns, after which disaster struck – epic faceplant coming back down Waddington Way. That’s the second time I’ve fallen over in two weeks! This was a bit different though, as I was coming downhill so weight was in a different place and I didn’t manage to get my arms out. I landed with my hands under me so I actually managed to skin my left shoulder and I felt my left cheekbone touch the pavement (it wasn’t so much as dirty though – shoulder took the brunt of it). Both knees grazed but the worst thing is my left hand – the outer metacarpal (under my little finger) is very tender. Hopefully it’s just bruised rather than fractured – I can move the hand normally and I can’t hear any crepitus, but I don’t think I’ll be doing any push-ups for a few days.
    Concerned man asked if I was OK so I said yes and dusted myself off and got going again. That included huffing and puffing up Gibson’s Hill, which was the last hill of the run, and then heading home.
    The most positive thing was I got the 18 miles easily and had a bit of fuel in the tank at the end, despite not taking any gels (I took water – it was very humid). Legs actually don’t feel too achey, amazingly, which they normally do after a long run.
    Negative (aside from the fall) was the achilles was a little bitch and I actually had some plantar discomfort while I was running around CP park. Need to keep an eye on that as PF is one injury I’ve not suffered with – hopefully it’s just tight because of the achilles. (Both of these eased a bit after I’d done the big hills – go figure). High hammy behaved a lot better though, so that’s another positive.
  • A productive weekend for me notching up enough points and squares on Fetch games to get my who squares wins 150 square badge (out of 225 possible) by hitting 154 via a extra random path i have never gone down before. Not going down it again cos top has brambles which as i am yet to shower does not show the damage as its under the mud still ;) There was also the horse field to cross where they ran one way when i approached then followed me around it rather closely.
    I also passed 10k points on the Fetchpoint one which required 'cheating' my using bike to get across into Whitehaven to gobble up the markers there for the points. Neither of these games have any route for me to get to the next badges as i do not have 200 squares i can go in evn with a slight grid shuffle and next point one is 25k. Both require towns and more players for more markers or streets to be able to get squares. Will explore a Kings Cross based grid though to see if i cna do the 200 and perhaps the 225 square gridmaster covering all squares. Awkwardness is its per week running from noon mondays so my usual day down to London is a thursday so it leaves 3 days and a monday morning to get around.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I think you'd see further improvements when this period of high humidity passes.  And combined with the cooler weather in the autumn all bodes well.

    Yes, pleased with my training, this week was back to full quota of 4 gym sessions so I knew it was going to be hard.   This morning it was so humid again, just makes running harder, but I was glad I'd opted for a couple of hills as when I got to the top of the first decent climb (Huxnor Road and onto North Whilborough) I picked up a nice breeze which cooled things until I was two miles from home, then back to pea soup humidity.   My times had slowed the last couple of months of full lockdown but starting to improve again now.

    I guess they're cramming in the cycling events so they can make their final selection for the TdeF.

    I looked briefly at the Winding Paths event, but the crushed gravel would not be to my liking, but a good event for you.


    Ian - you are now one of those speedy runners and should be up the front on the start line.    You've worked incredibly hard and your results have been well deserved.


    Cal - you haven't neglected your long runs and your tough run today shows that and you're loving your hills these days.   Nasty fall, but not having time to get your arms out it could have been a lot worse, hope there's no aftereffects of any consequence.   Not being able to do press ups, that's a bonus IMHO  ;)

    Keith - I never bother with any of those Fetch games.   Do you get extra points for being chased around the field by the horses  ;)
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Howdy all! 

    Keith: all of your message felt like gibberish! But well done! 

    Ian: impressive PB! Well done! I definitely agree that you're one of the speedies :) 

    BigG: I agree with shades. Once the humidity dies down, I think you'll see some great results. I feel for your OH. That doesn't sound ideal but hopefully it'll be better than she expects. 

    Shades: that's an impressive run, especially looking at your hard gym session. 

    Cal: I'm impressed that you managed 18 miles with just water. I hope your hand isn't too sore. I love your run reports, they really make me smile.  

    13miles for me this morning. I fuelled it with just water and breakfast and tried to aim for 6min Kms. 

    Robert/shades: I'm also not convinced about Mo. I think he could probably do a good marathon time but he won't be amongst the Kenyans/Ethiopians who dominate the circuit. From what I've seen, he's really struggled with injury this year. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Keith, well done, sounds like you're happy with the progress.  I don't play those Fetch games.  I do have a few "Fetch Miles" that I use to see progress over time, but I don't use those to compete with others.  They're just for my own use, and similar to Strava Segments I suppose, except I've set up ones of my own.

    Crikey, Cal.  You've been in the wars!  Well done on getting the run done.  Can I ask, do you think the Nikes with the plates are an issue for those with achilles problems (I know you probably weren't wearing those today)?  I was wondering the other day after my run, as with the sole being so stiff does that put extra pressure on the achilles?

    Ian, yeah, she knows she’s one of the lucky ones.  I've said to her many times "Having options is good" and she’ll always find vet work if she wants/needs it, and if she decides to leave the zoo, at least it's in her hands now.  Some of the zoo keepers who are now redundant, although qualified in what they do, will struggle to stay in that field of work, and I expect they'll have to try and find relatively low paid, casual work as the job market isn't particularly booming here :(  A few of them have been there years, some since leaving school, so it's a massive shock for them I think :( 

    Nice run from you Emmy :) 
  • I'm not sure, Big G - I know when I wear them I tend to be going faster and achilles hurts less at speed. So there's that.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, that's good.  You probably remember I had big problems with mine a few years ago.  Generally speaking it's okay most of the time when I'm running now, but on occasion it can be tight early in the morning, but it's manageable.  It just crossed my mind after my run in them the other day.  On race day, do you warm up in yours, or do you take different shoes to warm up in?  Sorry for all the questions!
  • I warm up in whatever I'm wearing for the race.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Hope the hand is just a knock,could have ended up a lot worse on a positive.
    Emmy-Good running there.
    Shades-I know am a faster runner now,but I still feel out of place with them,still think people are looking at me saying what's he doing there?
    Going back to the convo about SJD,I seem a guy in a kenya top last night,he didn't look very Kenyan and certainly didn't run like one.
    I'm thinking that I might do HM/10k training for a couple if months once I get these races out the way and see how I get on,should be quite easy to pick the long runs up in Feb for the spring races.
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